Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[mertyville]

Somebody mentioned Mew a few pages ago. It was solid B-Rank last gen and I believe it still stands strong in that position.
The ability to run almost any set, is crazy. It might be outclassed in some sets here and there, but there is no denying that Mew is able to run a lot of unique sets.
Offensively it has the large selection of great boosting moves and coverage moves and defensively it can support team mates with screens, heal bell, baton pass, defogger or just annoy with burnes, taunts and rocks.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

The only thing I can see Gardevoir doing is running a Scarf set to spam Moonblasts and maybe use Trick on a wall after it's outlived its usefulness. It's WAY too frail and too slow to run a CM or SubCM set since anything physical that's also somewhat bulky can just take more than 2 hits and kill it.

+1 252 SpA Gardevoir Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 153-180 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Gardevoir Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 308-364 (89.5 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 458-542 (164.7 - 194.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Healthy Scizor pretty much hard counters Gardevoir without HP Fire, and even then there's only a 37.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed with SR). Scizor may lose to Sub + 3 attacks, but only if it has a Sub up before Scizor switches in AND SR is up.

Even if you burn him on the switch, still murders you.
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician burned Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 229-271 (82.3 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even then Sylveon does a better job with CM thanks to Pixilate Hyper Voice and much better bulk.
I'd say D rank for normal Gardevoir.

I'd just not rank it at all, only the mega form. I don't even really see the point of a D tier.

 

[Shiruba]

Its OU analysis has several different Regularvoir sets, though. It's worth discussion at the very least.

[also, it'd be great if someone who uses Gardevoir could pop in; the Scizor quote's great, yeah it's beaten by Scizor, but what're Gardevoir's strong points? Simply focusing on the negative can't warrant an objectively good rating]

 

[sidakarya]

One of its main selling points is its access to Healing Wish, which is extremely powerful as a supporting move, as it can force the opponent to face a threatening mega or the like for a second time. Trace is also useful here, as you can with the Scarf set copy e.g. Dragonite's Multiscale.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Anyone know why Weezing is ranked? :P

 

[fleurdyleurse]

Anyone know why Weezing is ranked? :P

It stops Physical Lucario and can switch in. That's why.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

It stops Physical Lucario and can switch in. That's why.

It gets wrecked by special Mega Lucario which is by far the superior set, so I doubt that that's a reason to rank it. I'm just surprised that it went from NU last gen to being viable in OU this gen, and I don't get why tbh.

EDIT: as for why regular Gardevoir is ranked: it can catch people off guard with a Scarf set (most of them are Mega, so the surprise actually works) and it can use a support set with W-o-W to cripple counters like Scizor. Nothing really appreciates a burn nowadays. Max HP/Max Def Bold with Wish/Protect/W-o-W/Hyper Voice is a really good set that doesn't have to be outclassed by Sylveon.

 

[rachet67]

Don't compare Tornadus-T to Zapdos, Chansey, and Ferrothorn. It doesn't matter if they don't do their job better, but answer this question: What outclasses Tornadus-T? Nothing. This itself means that its not B-Rank worthy.

Just want to say that just because something isn't outclassed doesn't mean it should be ranked high. Literally nothing outclasses ditto (C rank), but it really isn't a good pokemon in its own right. Same goes for pokemon like contrary Malamar (D rank). Obviously Tornadus-t is better than these mons, but the same point holds true.

 

[Photofluid]

Concerning Torn-T, I do however think a physical set is more potent, together with better accuracy of superpower, the buffed knock off, and better U-turn damage, I think it should work better than the special set.

I think Torn-T may deserve an A-, at the end of the day, it is still the best regenerator pivot in the meta, Fly/Fight coverage is also scary enough as well.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Concerning Torn-T, I do however think a physical set is more potent, together with better accuracy of superpower, the buffed knock off, and better U-turn damage, I think it should work better than the special set.

I think Torn-T may deserve an A-, at the end of the day, it is still the best regenerator pivot in the meta, Fly/Fight coverage is also scary enough as well.

The loss of Flying Gem makes physical Torn-T less attractive, not to also mention Tornadus-T has exactly four Physical Flying STABS, one of which is Acrobatics, two are weak-sauce moves, and the final one is Fly.

The Special set is far superior in terms of damage, though having a 70% accuracy STAB and a 70% Coverage move makes him risky to use. Furthermore, with Politoed falling off the face of the earth, Tornadus-T will have an even harder time firing off Hurricanes with Sand becoming the prevalent weather in the tier. He's still strong, but he definitely has huge flaws that prevent him from dealing damage things consistently. I would definitely rank Tornadus-T B Rank.

 

[Vert]

Just want to say that just because something isn't outclassed doesn't mean it should be ranked high. Literally nothing outclasses ditto (C rank), but it really isn't a good pokemon in its own right. Same goes for pokemon like contrary Malamar (D rank). Obviously Tornadus-t is better than these mons, but the same point holds true.

Tornadus-T is actually good unlike those two mons you mentioned. Nothing outclasses garbage like Malamar, but Malamar's numerous amount of flaws like crap load of weaknesses and poor bulk.

Ditto doesn't do anything but revenge. It is locked into one move and doesn't help the team bar revenge kill.

However

The loss of Flying Gem makes physical Torn-T less attractive, not to also mention Tornadus-T has exactly four Physical Flying STABS, one of which is Acrobatics, two are weak-sauce moves, and the final one is Fly.

The Special set is far superior in terms of damage, though having a 70% accuracy STAB and a 70% Coverage move makes him risky to use. Furthermore, with Politoed falling off the face of the earth, Tornadus-T will have an even harder time firing off Hurricanes with Sand becoming the prevalent weather in the tier. He's still strong, but he definitely has huge flaws that prevent him from dealing damage things consistently. I would definitely rank Tornadus-T B Rank.

Tornadus-T has Air Slash which hits hard because it lack of resists in OU and nay steel is pummeled by Heat Wave and Superpower. Focus Blast is there for more power, but 100% accuracy coverage that takes care of Air Slash resists and hits Blissey (close OHKO), Chansey (2HKO), and Tyranitar for OHKO is really good. Tornadus-T should never use Acrobatics. Tornadus-I and Talonflame will do that much better when Flying Gem is released. The Rain nerf prevents it from using STAB Hurricane repeatedly, but it can set up its own Rain when prediction isn't risky which is very common considering how many time Tornadus-T forces out opposing PKMN.

Also, you said: numerous flaws that prevent him from doing his job consistently and you only mentioned the rain nerf. You aren't really proving anything bar your ignorance by saying one flaw is "many flaws". Elaborate this please.

Eievui-Nymphia
E-Rank is gay take it out. Porygon-Z isn't viable. Most of the shit on your list doesn't need to be ranked.

 

[NotSoMegaBlaziken]

Dragonite should be solidly A+ it's in my opinion; the most versatile of the OU dragons. It can sweep solidly... Has great support moves. It also stalls nicely with Twave/DragonTail/ExtremeSpeed/roost. As you can paralyse then spam roost and take little damage. Talonflame should be A. It counters a lot of dangerous Glass Cannons, but it's mediocre attack an frail defences let it down. It's all I got so far

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Dragonite should be solidly A+ it's in my opinion; the most versatile of the OU dragons. It can sweep solidly... Has great support moves. It also stalls nicely with Twave/DragonTail/ExtremeSpeed/roost. As you can paralyse then spam roost and take little damage. Talonflame should be A. It counters a lot of dangerous Glass Cannons, but it's mediocre attack an frail defences let it down. It's all I got so far

I pushed for this a while back, but the consensus seemed to be that being ruined by SR, and being stopped in its tracks by genesect, Kyurem, unaware clefable and quagsire, as well as in certain situations greninja, mamoswine, talonflame, genesect, and sableye, it seems to be solidly A. I still think it's one of the best Pokemon you can use, but it needs the right team

That was all about dd dragonites though, it can stall, but I prefer zygarde for that. It can be on a rain team, but goodra is arguably better there, it can do a lot of things, so we can't just ignore it's versatility, but not too long ago people thought it wasn't enough for A+

 

[Eievui-Nymphia]

We have to much to do with the Viability Ranking lists. I have a lot of ideas for ranking the remaining pokemon. Given what I know of them, his past, his Gen VI changes, I propose this categories.
Cloyster C+
Smeargle C
Donphan B-
Jolteon D
Hydreigon B-
Jirachi B+
Gastrodon C
Metagross C+
Umbreon C
Porygon2 B-
Magnezone B
Reuniclus C+
Darmanitan C
Haxorus C
Aggron B- (Mega)
Crobat C+
Kingdra C+
Weavile B-
Ninetales B
Nidoking C
Milotic C
Ampharos B- (Mega)
Snorlax C+
Machamp C
Mew B
Cofragrigus C
Victini B
Mienshao C
Banette C+ (Mega)
Avalugg C
Shuckle C
Zoroark C
Suicune C+
Rhyperior C
Houndoom (Mega) C+
Cresselia C+
Xatu C
Tangrowth B-
Ammoonguss C+
Froslass C
Wobbuffet B
Azelf C
Slowking C+
Bronzong C
Sharpedo C
Yanmega C
Meowstic C
Meloetta C
Mr. Mime C
Gothitelle C+
Rotom-Mow C
Shaymin C
Virizion C
Tornadus C
Cobalion C
Some suggestions to discuss

 

[firebfm]

reuniclus should be the same rank as clefable. It has stronger attacks psychic and focus blast. Focus blast will kill dark types which counter reuniclus. It has higher bulk and special attack than clefable.

 

[Salemance]

reuniclus should be the same rank as clefable. It has stronger attacks psychic and focus blast. Focus blast will kill dark types which counter reuniclus. It has higher bulk and special attack than clefable.

Yet arguably it has the worse typing of the two. Dark type attacks and Ghost type attacks are so much more spammable this gen that it makes life hard for Reun. While it might be Knock Off hype, it is just a whole lot for the green blob to even handle. As a comparison to Clefable, it could be lower, but as they occupy the same role in a way, its Clefable who gets the one up do to it being able to boost its defense stat while not being weak to dark or ghost.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

One of its main selling points is its access to Healing Wish, which is extremely powerful as a supporting move, as it can force the opponent to face a threatening mega or the like for a second time. Trace is also useful here, as you can with the Scarf set copy e.g. Dragonite's Multiscale.

EDIT: as for why regular Gardevoir is ranked: it can catch people off guard with a Scarf set (most of them are Mega, so the surprise actually works) and it can use a support set with W-o-W to cripple counters like Scizor. Nothing really appreciates a burn nowadays. Max HP/Max Def Bold with Wish/Protect/W-o-W/Hyper Voice is a really good set that doesn't have to be outclassed by Sylveon.

I guess non-mega Gardevoir does have one thing that really sets it apart from everything else: Scarf+Trace allows it reliably revenge kill things like Swift Swimmers or even Sand Rush Excadrill; nothing else that gets trace can really do that, they don't have enough offense. I actually did use it UU, and there is was ridiculously good because all the top threats are fighting, dragon or dark, and Drizzle+Swift Swim got abused a lot until it was banned. I didn't know it got an OU analysis.

Oh and it gets a buttload of support moves.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

We have to much to do with the Viability Ranking lists. I have a lot of ideas for ranking the remaining pokemon. Given what I know of them, his past, his Gen VI changes, I propose this categories.
Cloyster C+
Smeargle C
Donphan B-
Jolteon D
Hydreigon B-
Jirachi B+
Gastrodon C
Metagross C+
Umbreon C
Porygon2 B-
Magnezone B
Reuniclus C+
Darmanitan C
Haxorus C
Aggron B- (Mega)
Crobat C+
Kingdra C+
Weavile B-
Ninetales B
Nidoking C
Milotic C
Ampharos B- (Mega)
Snorlax C+
Machamp C
Mew B
Cofragrigus C
Victini B
Mienshao C
Banette C+ (Mega)
Avalugg C
Shuckle C
Zoroark C
Suicune C+
Rhyperior C
Houndoom (Mega) C+
Cresselia C+
Xatu C
Tangrowth B-
Ammoonguss C+
Froslass C
Wobbuffet B
Azelf C
Slowking C+
Bronzong C
Sharpedo C
Yanmega C
Meowstic C
Meloetta C
Mr. Mime C
Gothitelle C+
Rotom-Mow C
Shaymin C
Virizion C
Tornadus C
Cobalion C
Some suggestions to discuss

..any reason as to why you suggest these in those ranks?
And isn't better to focus on one or two pokemon at the time?

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Yeah, regular Gardevoir is pretty legit. The Scarf set is really fun and useful on offensive teams, even past the obvious revenge killing utility. Trace is a pretty cool ability in general; with it, Gardevoir can outspeed and KO or at least deal heavy damage to weather sweepers such as Kingdra, Excadrill, Kabutops, and the occasional Sun sweeper Venusaur. It can tank hits from any Heatran not carrying Flash Cannon with ease. It can take anything from Multiscale Dragonite if it's at full health. It can check Intimidate Gyarados, Salamence, and Landorus-T much more effectively. It can use Landorus and Conkeldurr's Sheer Force to make its Moonblast, Focus Blast, and Shadow Ball even stronger. It can heal any status problems it runs into with Blissey, Chansey, Celebi, or Starmie's Natural Cure, or even heal off damage with Slowbro, Tangrowth, Amoonguss, or Tornadus-T's Regenerator. Needless to say, Trace has an impressive amount of utility. Another great perk about the Scarf set is that there's so much you can do with that last moveslot. Trick is pretty good in general, and we all know what giving a Scarf to something like Ferrothorn or Blissey will do to them. Healing Wish is fantastic since it can give new life to dangerous offensive Pokemon like Genesect and Mega Lucario, which makes it easier to play more recklessly with those guys knowing that you can just heal them up later. There's also Destiny Bond, which is a cool panic button since you can use it to trade Gardevoir with pretty much anything.

Other regular Gardevoir sets have their merits, but the Choice Scarf set is my personal favorite due to the neat utility that it brings to offensive teams. Besides that, it still has solid special bulk, the ever useful Fairy typing, great special power, and several other support options such as Wish, Heal Bell, and Will-O-Wisp. I honestly think it deserves to remain B Rank with its Mega form, but the lowest I could see it drop is to B- Rank.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Cofagrigus is definitely C Rank in my opinion. I have used it a bit, and it does have potential. It's a neat bulky Ghost for offensive teams, and its OTR set is pretty cool as a sweeper; it's one of the more viable TR users around and after an NP boost its power is pretty sufficient, and the fact that Steel doesn't resist Ghost anymore is also a cool thing in Cofagrigus's favor. Will-O-Wisp is a fun move too to cripple physical attackers, especially Tyranitar, while making better use of its awesome bulk. Its bulk and NP are what set it apart from Gengar and Aegislash as an offensive Ghost imo, and Mummy is also a cool ability to remove the abilities of Pokemon like Talonflame and Azumarill. It does have flaws like its lack of recovery, two common weaknesses, and competition from other Ghosts, but it has a decent enough niche to warrant a mention here.

Ninetales though I see as more of a D Rank Pokemon if you ask me. Yes, sun is a pretty good playstyle, especially with some new ones like Megazard Y and to an extent Mega Houndoom, but beyond that Ninetales is still really mediocre. It has trouble staying alive due to its terrible vulnerability to hazards, and it's also very weak. Yes, hazards are easier to remove now thanks to Defog, but that still doesn't change the fact that Ninetales sucks. The new limitations to Drought really hinder its usefulness, as well as the prominence of Megazard Y. That's probably me though.

Donphan should be D Rank (or C Rank at highest) imo because it's outclassed by other spinners, and its lack of recovery and inability to wall that many threats in OU which make it struggle as a spinner. It's not that great at spinning because it has a lot of trouble staying alive. It does have a decent enough of a niche to warrant mentioning here.

Jolteon, Milotic, Machamp, Mienshao, Avalugg, Shuckle, Zoroark, Meowstic, Bronzong, Azelf, Rotom-Mow, Virizion, Yanmega, and Sharpedo are all irrelevant/unviable in OU and don't deserve to be on the list at all.

I'll refrain from commenting on the rest of those proposals though.

 

[alexwolf]

Ninetales for D rank is a joke. If you want to use sun offense without manual sunny day, you have to use Ninetales, and sun offense is still a viable playstyle, as you can still get ~14-20 turns of sun as long as you don't play too stupid with Ninetales and the opponent doesn't have ihis own weather. Lead with Tales, bring her in again after something dies in ~7-8 turns, and then bring her one last time to sac her and bring the sun up one last time. With the offensive monsters that sun has at its disposal you should have no problem ending the game fast anyway, except against full stall with lots of Protect users. Ninetales should be somewhere in B rank, though i am not sure where.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

I'd put Ninetales in B or B+, right below Politoed, because sun teams are slightly weaker than rain (my opinion, I could totally be wrong.)

Ninetales is not really good besides having Drought, but Politoed isn't much better. Drought/Drizzle are the only reason they're used. There is Y-zard who can also be used for Drought, but its Drought is pretty much for it and not the rest of the team.

 

[rachet67]

I'd put Ninetales in B or B+, right below Politoed, because sun teams are slightly weaker than rain (my opinion, I could totally be wrong.)

Ninetales is not really good besides having Drought, but Politoed isn't much better. Drought/Drizzle are the only reason they're used. There is Y-zard who can also be used for Drought, but its Drought is pretty much for it and not the rest of the team.

At least Politoed has some presence after it summons rain, as it can abuse it itself. Ninetails, on the other hand, has direct competion from charzard-y, has pretty bad coverage with solar beam and fire blast, and terrible defensive typing, compounded by low stats all around the board.

I think D rank is way to low, but also think that B+ or even B is overstating how well it can do its job. I think B-, maybe even C+ would be better for it.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Tornadus-T has Air Slash which hits hard because it lack of resists in OU and nay steel is pummeled by Heat Wave and Superpower. Focus Blast is there for more power, but 100% accuracy coverage that takes care of Air Slash resists and hits Blissey (close OHKO), Chansey (2HKO), and Tyranitar for OHKO is really good. Tornadus-T should never use Acrobatics. Tornadus-I and Talonflame will do that much better when Flying Gem is released. The Rain nerf prevents it from using STAB Hurricane repeatedly, but it can set up its own Rain when prediction isn't risky which is very common considering how many time Tornadus-T forces out opposing PKMN.

Also, you said: numerous flaws that prevent him from doing his job consistently and you only mentioned the rain nerf. You aren't really proving anything bar your ignorance by saying one flaw is "many flaws". Elaborate this please.

"proving anything bar your ignorance"
Shots have been fired.

My whole point about the Physical Flying STAB is to make a point that using Physical Torn-T is a super-bad idea.

In defense of my "ignorance", I stated that Tornadus-T's greatest STAB (the one that could 2HKO most of the metagame, not some pussy Air Slash) and his other coverage move Focus Miss sit at 70% accuracy. If anything, this all goes back to Rain because it's the only weather that allows it to get a Base 120 100% accuracy STAB.

Furthermore, the introduction of Assault Vest severely hampers his ability to deal shit tons of damage. Common users such as Goodra and Tyranitar can fully take a Focus Blast and KO back.

 

[Magcargo]

Common users such as Goodra and Tyranitar can fully take a Focus Blast and KO back.

Tyranitar is OHKOed by Superpower and Goodra is crippled by Knock Off, both of which are fairly viable moves on Tornadus-T. It can also easily switch out with U-Turn against Goodra into something that is able to check or counter it such as Heatran.