Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Emboar is not getting an OU analysis and it stayed firmly in NU last gen and I see no way it can redeem itself and bring it up to any higher tiers.

Emboar was RU last gen, get your facts right.

Anyways, I can't see Salamance being any higher than B- in this meta. It's just a lost cause in OU now imo. The presence of new fairies like Togekiss, Azumarill, and Gardevoir give Salamence a lot of trouble doing well in this metagame, and it has to compete with Dragons who have better niches like Garchomp and Kyurem-B. I also agree with everything Magcargo 2 said.

Also Emboar really isn't all that great since we have Infernape and stuff, I don't really see a reason to use it, though I may be wrong.

 

[Monte Cristo]

I don't think that Mixmence is really that good due to the fact that Kyurem-B and Mega Garchomp exist. Kyurem-B has even better attacking stats and arguably better movepool, along with excellent bulk and several specially based resistances. Although Mega Garchomp requires you to use your Mega Slot, it has a much better typing for a wallbreaker, gets its power boosted in the sand and does an even better job at luring the foe's walls due to its mediocre special attack stat in its base form. There are plenty of other wallbreakers I haven't mentioned, such as Charizard X, Charizard Y, Aegislash, Mega Lucario, and Landorus-I that are much better at wallbreaking than Salamence. I can't really comment on Wishmence since I have never seen or used it.

I think that either C+ or B- Rank would be a good place for salamence. The introduction of fairies makes it even harder for it to sweep and Wallbreak this gen, and there isn't really much of a reason to use it over more competent Pokemon, such as Dragonite, Charizard X, and Kyurem-B.

MixMence has the right combo of movepool, power and bulk (intimidate), also, you completely disregarded my post on fatmence aka wishmence, which is one of the best answers to things like physical mega luke and talonflame

 

[Ajwf]

Emboar doesn't have viability over something like Infernape. It's a fire/fighting type but Infernape has great mixed set and better priority. Why do I want YAWN on something like a wallbreaker/sweeper? Emboar's best fight attack is super power whereas infernape has close combat. Even with decent defenses, Emboar only falls as a nice and VERY SLOW wall breaker that can put out one fight attack and fails against HP soaked walls because the other attacks are recoil ones. All of this make it second rate wall breaker to something like conckledurr and a second rate fight/fire to infernape (who also has better priority). 123 is a terrible wall breaker stat, too...

Even with sucker punch this generation, I wouldn't think anything more than E rank is good for emboar...

 

[farranpoison]

Emboar without Reckless is completely outclassed by Infernape and other, better Fire types like Entei.

If it got Reckless, perhaps it'd see a niche as a wallbreaker, but as of now there's really no reason to use it.

Anyway, I'd like to nominate Gastrodon as a C+/B- rank. Without perma rain, it's not as good anymore, but walling stuff like Keldeo, Mega Manectric (unless they start running HP Grass which I can't really see) as well as a great way to soak up Scalds flying everywhere this gen has to account for something. I've put the slug on pretty much every team I've made and never regretted it.

 

[rachet67]

Emboar makes infernape look good. And really, infernape is for the most part outclassed by keldeo.

I agree on Gastredon. It's not that great stand alone, but it has a decent sized niche that no other poke can perform, and its flaws can be covered for on a full stall team.
C/C+ (For comparison where forretress and diggersby are) seems like a good place for it.

 

[Josh Morales]

Emboar was RU last gen, get your facts right.

Anyways, I can't see Salamance being any higher than B- in this meta. It's just a lost cause in OU now imo. The presence of new fairies like Togekiss, Azumarill, and Gardevoir give Salamence a lot of trouble doing well in this metagame, and it has to compete with Dragons who have better niches like Garchomp and Kyurem-B. I also agree with everything Magcargo 2 said.

Also Emboar really isn't all that great since we have Infernape and stuff, I don't really see a reason to use it, though I may be wrong.

Yeah I remembered that a few seconds after I posted that lol. I might as well fix that.

 

[Jayd]

Emboar doesn't have viability over something like Infernape. It's a fire/fighting type but Infernape has great mixed set and better priority. Why do I want YAWN on something like a wallbreaker/sweeper? Emboar's best fight attack is super power whereas infernape has close combat. Even with decent defenses, Emboar only falls as a nice and VERY SLOW wall breaker that can put out one fight attack and fails against HP soaked walls because the other attacks are recoil ones. All of this make it second rate wall breaker to something like conckledurr and a second rate fight/fire to infernape (who also has better priority). 123 is a terrible wall breaker stat, too...

Even with sucker punch this generation, I wouldn't think anything more than E rank is good for emboar...

Emboar doesn't compete directly with Infernape. It's not a sweeper and the mechanics of its play are completely different. Infernape is outspeed and kill before being hit; Emboar is force a switch and punish it (with much higher damage than Infernape) or with status. That's why I spoke about Yawn and WoW, but I explained that in the post. I explained that it's main niche is in pushing the opponent into tight situations where they cannot counter properly. I also said that it faces overwhelming competition from above, which is a criteria of C-rank, hence why I put him there. Am I missing something here? All of the objections I'm getting are acting like I said it should be A or something.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Am I the only one that thinks that Staraptor will maintain BL yet again?

I'd normally try to rank a Pokemon, but I'm having a hard time deciding what rank to give. I'm trying to figure out what I believe Tornadus-I and Tornadus-T should be ranked. Both of them aren't as effective as they were before, but I believe they still have enough strengths to merit a rank.

Let's begin with Tornadus-I. Prankster is an amazing ability and though Tornadus-I doesn't have every great move to use with it, he has just enough. Tornadus-I has access to Tailwind, Swagger, Agility, Rain Dance, Toxic, Bulk Up, and Taunt, which can be taken advantage of. Rain Dance can be used with Damp Rock to spam Hurricane, Taunt is always a good option, and Tailwind is a good support move for a couple turns. His offensive movepool isn't too shabby, either. With options like Hurricane, Air Slash, Heat Wave, Knock Off, Superpower, U-Turn, Sludge Wave, Crunch/Dark Pulse, and Psychic, he has enough to hit just about everything he needs. He also has better Offenses than his Therian Forme, meaning that he'll hit slightly harder. The defensive downside is that Tornadus-I is a touch frail. 79/70/80 Defenses aren't going to protect you from every hit all that well. On the other hand, you have more bulk than Lucario, which is always nice, but Flying-Types have three common weaknesses, which makes it somewhat easy to take out. Hurricane and Rain getting nerfed is also a downer, but I believe Tornadus-I is usable, but I'm unsure as to where he should be ranked.

Tornadus-T was a monster last gen. I don't think this thing needs an introduction. What did Tornadus-T lose this Gen? Permanent Rain--that's what. That hurts Tornadus-T's offensive capabilities, especially since his offenses are lower than his Incarnate Forme. What he has is better bulk and speed, as well as the same movepool. This makes the offensive options about the same. Even though his offenses aren't as impressive, he maintained U-Turn, and when combined with Regenerator, it makes Tornadus-T a nice VolTurn partner. Tornadus-T does require some support; Air Slash isn't very powerful and without Serene Grace, you're not going to flinch often.

Once again, I'm unsure as to how I believe these two should be ranked, but with Thundurus-I, Landorus-I, and Landorus-T high up there and everybody wanting Thundurus-T, I thought I'd give Tornadus a chance to shine. Anybody?

 

[Magnemite]

An analysis does not mean anything. A Pokemon can be viable and not have an analysis. A Pokemon can also not be viable and have an analysis.

(Also, I don't see Emboar doing well at all)

Yes, it does. ginganinja said on page 19 that if a Pokemon is not getting an OU analysis, it is ineligible for the viability rankings. That's all there is to it.

 

[melvni]

What's your point? If Malamar and Gourgeist-Small deserve a ranking on this scale, why shouldn't Emboar?

They actually have OU analyses because they can perform a very small niche in OU. There's no good reason to use Emboar.

Good job not acknowledging any of the arguments I made in my post. I suggest you re-read the rules of this thread.

An analysis does not mean anything. A Pokemon can be viable and not have an analysis. A Pokemon can also not be viable and have an analysis.

(Also, I don't see Emboar doing well at all)

Magnemite is right. Here's the precise quote by the way:

NEW RULE

Im not going to rank something if its not getting an OU analysis, basically because if its not getting an OU analysis, then its usually not viable (unless someone makes waves with it down the track). Considering I remember rejecting Arcanine on OU QC, its not getting ranked, period.

 

[RotomPoison]

Emboar doesn't compete directly with Infernape. It's not a sweeper and the mechanics of its play are completely different. Infernape is outspeed and kill before being hit; Emboar is force a switch and punish it (with much higher damage than Infernape) or with status. That's why I spoke about Yawn and WoW, but I explained that in the post. I explained that it's main niche is in pushing the opponent into tight situations where they cannot counter properly. I also said that it faces overwhelming competition from above, which is a criteria of C-rank, hence why I put him there. Am I missing something here? All of the objections I'm getting are acting like I said it should be A or something.

It gets outsped by a lot more, which is the actual problem.

Also, I said viable, not ranked, there's a difference.

 

[rachet67]

Emboar has poor speed, poor defense and SpD, and terrible defensive typing, which prevents it from fulfilling a tank role. Yawn is nearly useless, and spreading burn is best left for pokes with better bulk and/or defensive typing (aka Rotom-W). While fighting/fire is a pretty good combination, emboar does not have the speed to do any real damage. Guess who does? Infernape. Because Infernape exists there is absolutely no niche at all for Emboar, which is why it shouldn't be ranked at all.

Edit: Oops, didn't see that the new rule had just been posted.

 

[TheMohZone]

Emboar doesn't compete directly with Infernape. It's not a sweeper and the mechanics of its play are completely different. Infernape is outspeed and kill before being hit; Emboar is force a switch and punish it (with much higher damage than Infernape) or with status. That's why I spoke about Yawn and WoW, but I explained that in the post. I explained that it's main niche is in pushing the opponent into tight situations where they cannot counter properly. I also said that it faces overwhelming competition from above, which is a criteria of C-rank, hence why I put him there. Am I missing something here? All of the objections I'm getting are acting like I said it should be A or something.

there was a new rule implemented a couple of pages back. if a pokemon isn't getting an analysis than its not getting ranked.

not only that but as a wall breaker, heck even as a fire type wall breaker, Emboar is outclassed. Think Victini, Darmanitan and Entei, all better pokes than Emboar. Yawn is not a selling point and there are better users of Will-O, Emboar doesn't have the bulk to pull it off either. theres no point in Ranking it. when it gets reckless we will revisit it, but i think Staraptor outclasses it as a Reckless user and we know how well he works.

anyway, i nominated Avalugg to C. his typing blows and gust from a Pidgey could probably kill him cause its a special move, but it takes Physical hits like a champ (Even SE ones like Megacarios CC. Never switch in blind to a Megacario though), has lots of recovery options, Rapid Spin and more. its been doing fine for me.

EDIT: Greninja'd...alot.

 

[Not a missingno]

Emboar is not getting an OU analysis and it stayed firmly in RU last gen and I see no way it can redeem itself and bring it up to any higher tiers.

When trollfreak finally decides to release reckless,its a straight shot up to UU/BL/OU.Great reckless movepool and reckless coverage.

 

[Jayd]

I'm sorry, I think I'm still missing something. Does "OU analysis" mean something I don't understand? Because I did judge it based by performance in OU, and there is an analysis thread in the forums that is based in OU. Based on its performance in OU I provided a structured argument as to why I think it meets the criteria stipulated for C-rank in the OP of this thread. The description of C-rank is:

Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.
Therefore, pointing out that Emboar is outclassed by this or that Pokemon does not contradict my post, it supports it. Being "completely eclipsed" means that it belongs in C-rank.

Other than that I see baseless statements that ignore my arguments. "Yawn is not a selling point", "Yawn is nearly useless"? Why should I accept that if you haven't responded to my argument: namely that it makes it much better at its job of punishing switches to take out threats and force momentum? Does Yawn not do that? Does it not have good synergy with its ability to force and punish switches, seeing as that's what Yawn does?

There are better users of WIll-O-Wisp? Of course there are! That's why I'm recommending C+!

I'm giving an OU analysis. There is a thead in the forum that hasn't been locked, so I assume the mods are ok with it. I've recommended a rank based on that analysis. I've explained why the objections I have so far recieved are inappropriate.

To argue that Emboar does not belong in C-rank, you have to argue that it cannot be effective given the right support. Crippling flaws and being outclassed are included within C-rank.

Thank you.

 

[TheMohZone]

I'm sorry, I think I'm still missing something. Does "OU analysis" mean something I don't understand? Because I did judge it based by performance in OU, and there is an analysis thread in the forums that is based in OU. Based on its performance in OU I provided a structured argument as to why I think it meets the criteria stipulated for C-rank in the OP of this thread. The description of C-rank is:

Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.
Therefore, pointing out that Emboar is outclassed by this or that Pokemon does not contradict my post, it supports it. Being "completely eclipsed" means that it belongs in C-rank.

Other than that I see baseless statements that ignore my arguments. "Yawn is not a selling point", "Yawn is nearly useless"? Why should I accept that if you haven't responded to my argument: namely that it makes it much better at its job of punishing switches to take out threats and force momentum? Does Yawn not do that? Does it not have good synergy with its ability to force and punish switches, seeing as that's what Yawn does?

There are better users of WIll-O-Wisp? Of course there are! That's why I'm recommending C+!

I'm giving an OU analysis. There is a thead in the forum that hasn't been locked, so I assume the mods are ok with it. I've recommended a rank based on that analysis. I've explained why the objections I have so far recieved are inappropriate.

To argue that Emboar does not belong in C-rank, you have to argue that it cannot be effective given the right support. Crippling flaws and being outclassed are included within C-rank.

Thank you.

Analysis means it has to get into the X/Y strategy pokedex with an OU entry, when it gets put up and to do that Emboar would have to get accepted here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/ou-analyses.255/ which it wouldn't, although i welcome you to try.

Emboar doesn't have the stats to tank and use Yawn and Will-O effectively, not to mention why use Yawn when Spore exists? Emboar should be powerful enough to force switches on its own with the stat spread it has. ya know like every decent Fire Type, no every decent pokemon in the OU and UU tiers with similar stats, or the ones that are moving there. Lets look at Entei, another (Former) RU Fire that got a new move. he can both wall break and force switches with one move, and has better priority. why use Emboar when Entei exists? you shouldn't. why use something so Talonflame weak when superior options for wall breaking, forcing switches and Burn spreading exist? you shouldn't. thats why Emboar won't get an analysis and why its not getting on here at all.

 

[Josh Morales]

I'm sorry, I think I'm still missing something. Does "OU analysis" mean something I don't understand? Because I did judge it based by performance in OU, and there is an analysis thread in the forums that is based in OU. Based on its performance in OU I provided a structured argument as to why I think it meets the criteria stipulated for C-rank in the OP of this thread. The description of C-rank is:

No there is no OU analysis for Emboar either, reserved, in progress, awaiting reservation, or completed. I trust the QC to decide whether or not Emboar is OU viable and it seems they have deemed it not to be so I'll trust that.

I'll write a wall of text in a bit when I get back to my computer.

 

[Vryheid]

As has been stated at least twice in this thread, I strongly suggest listing Hippowdon (in my opinion, at B-rank) for having a useful niche as a utility supporter and bulky physical wall.

It's easy to compare Hippowdon with Skarmory for the role of "general purpose wall". Like Skarmory, it can phase, stall with a recovery move, put up Stealth Rocks, and hit back with a decently powerful STAB move. Unlike Skarmory, it isn't wiped out by Electric/Fire attacks or trapped by Magnezone. It's also a very good check to Aegislash, Mega-Lucario, Terrakion, and other Pokemon that other physical walls have a hard time dealing with. Sand, while significantly nerfed, is still a nice bonus for people using Excadrill or Terrakion, and if you don't want sand you can use its alternate ability. Pair it up with a special wall like Venusaur and you have a defensive core that's very hard to break.

 

[Jukain]

Analysis means it has to get into the X/Y strategy pokedex with an OU entry, when it gets put up and to do that Emboar would have to get accepted here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/ou-analyses.255/ which it wouldn't, although i welcome you to try.

Emboar doesn't have the stats to tank and use Yawn and Will-O effectively, not to mention why use Yawn when Spore exists? Emboar should be powerful enough to force switches on its own with the stat spread it has. ya know like every decent Fire Type, no every decent pokemon in the OU and UU tiers with similar stats, or the ones that are moving there. Lets look at Entei, another (Former) RU Fire that got a new move. he can both wall break and force switches with one move, and has better priority. why use Emboar when Entei exists? you shouldn't. why use something so Talonflame weak when superior options for wall breaking, forcing switches and Burn spreading exist? you shouldn't. thats why Emboar won't get an analysis and why its not getting on here at all.

I'm planning on trying out an Assault Vest set when Sucker Punch gets implemented on PS. Emboar doesn't seem like a bad Pokemon. It can take most of Megazard Y's moveset (this is barring EQ only):

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Emboar in Sun: 99-117 (23.4 - 27.6%)

This is ridiculous. There's so little in the game that can easily stomach a Fire Blast from Megazard Y like that. And most of the things that can are weak to Solar Beam. EQ only has a 25% chance to 2HKO 248 HP Emboar, even.

Also, Emboar walls Genesect. Even Extreme Speed isn't that bad:

+1 252 Atk Genesect Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 175-207 (41.3 - 48.9%)

The only thing you have to worry about is Explosion, which isn't even that common (only on 6% of Genesect) and leads to Genesect dying, which is a win IMO.

Emboar is pretty great on the special side of things. Just as an illustration of its bulk: 252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Emboar: 201-237 (47.5 - 56%)

There are some other things it handles really well. It walls special Mega Lucario. It walls freaking wallbreaker (252 Atk / 252 SpA Quiet with Shadow Ball / Shadow Sneak / Sacred Sword) Aegislash. It handles Heatran really well, even LO with Earth Power (it's not 2HKOed with 248/252+ AV). Thundurus-I is walled. Gengar is walled. Sub Kyurem-B (216 SpA with Ice Beam / Fusion Bolt / Earth Power) is walled. It takes a max of 66.6% from the first hit of Knock Off from +2 Bisharp. From Goodra:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Emboar: 195-231 (46 - 54.6%) -- 57% chance to 2HKO

tbh I can see AV Emboar being a damn impressive Pokemon once I get the chance to test it out.

 

[Antonius the Great]

**
How does everyone think Cofagrigus will do this gen? He himself hasn't changed really but other Pokes have changed so much that he has much more viability now that many mons rely on their abilities to be destructive, namely Talonflame and Azumarill. Mummy, again, hasn't changed, but since more and more Pokemon are needing their abilities Mummy becomes destructive. Removing Huge Power, Adaptability, Gale Wings, and other offensive abilities really cripple Pokemon and an change the game. He lacks reliable recovery outside of Pain Split from tutor last gen, but he can run ChestoRest sets nicely. He's also a great user of WoW, increasing his physical walling capabilities, and he gets STAB Hex to deal damage after leaving a burn (excludes Fire-types that can't be burned).
Mummy gives him an excellent niche that I think will be extremely useful this gen, so I'd like to nominate Cofagrigus for B+

 

[Hidious]

Why would you use assault vest emboar over conkeldurr? Conkeldurr has better defensive typing, more bulk, knock off, drain punch, and has a higher attack stat with priority and a better ability (as of right now). I don't think the dual stab outweighs what conk can do.

 

[Josh Morales]

I'm planning on trying out an Assault Vest set when Sucker Punch gets implemented on PS. Emboar doesn't seem like a bad Pokemon. It can take most of Megazard Y's moveset (this is barring EQ only):

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Emboar in Sun: 99-117 (23.4 - 27.6%)

This is ridiculous. There's so little in the game that can easily stomach a Fire Blast from Megazard Y like that. And most of the things that can are weak to Solar Beam. EQ only has a 25% chance to 2HKO 248 HP Emboar, even.

Also, Emboar walls Genesect. Even Extreme Speed isn't that bad:

+1 252 Atk Genesect Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 175-207 (41.3 - 48.9%)

The only thing you have to worry about is Explosion, which isn't even that common (only on 6% of Genesect) and leads to Genesect dying, which is a win IMO.

Emboar is pretty great on the special side of things. Just as an illustration of its bulk: 252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Emboar: 201-237 (47.5 - 56%)

There are some other things it handles really well. It walls special Mega Lucario. It walls freaking wallbreaker (252 Atk / 252 SpA Quiet with Shadow Ball / Shadow Sneak / Sacred Sword) Aegislash. It handles Heatran really well, even LO with Earth Power (it's not 2HKOed with 248/252+ AV). Thundurus-I is walled. Gengar is walled. Sub Kyurem-B (216 SpA with Ice Beam / Fusion Bolt / Earth Power) is walled. It takes a max of 66.6% from the first hit of Knock Off from +2 Bisharp. From Goodra:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Emboar: 195-231 (46 - 54.6%) -- 57% chance to 2HKO

tbh I can see AV Emboar being a damn impressive Pokemon once I get the chance to test it out.

Hmm, maybe it isn't so bad then. I'd settle with a C- but AV Conkeldurr still seems to almost 100% outclass it. I suppose that does fit the definition of a C rank, though. We need to spend more time finding D rank and C rank pokemon because there aren't many of them. We keep focusing on B, A, and S when we should think of other pokemon that are somewhat usable but completely eclipsed by pokemon in the above ranks, can be effective when given the right support, or can use a very small niche but is more often than not, more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Ajwf]

With that spread, Emboar isn't hitting back, though. You invested everything into bulk and he's taking 50% on hits with no move to recover with and only recoil moves (and super power) in arsenal. Good luck.

 

[Jukain]

It still walls Genesect, Megazard Y, Gengar, Aegislash, and Mega Lucario if I go Adamant, even if I decrease special bulk with that. Still sounds good, though niche.

 

[TheMohZone]

I'm planning on trying out an Assault Vest set when Sucker Punch gets implemented on PS. Emboar doesn't seem like a bad Pokemon. It can take most of Megazard Y's moveset (this is barring EQ only):

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Emboar in Sun: 99-117 (23.4 - 27.6%)

This is ridiculous. There's so little in the game that can easily stomach a Fire Blast from Megazard Y like that. And most of the things that can are weak to Solar Beam. EQ only has a 25% chance to 2HKO 248 HP Emboar, even.

Also, Emboar walls Genesect. Even Extreme Speed isn't that bad:

+1 252 Atk Genesect Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 175-207 (41.3 - 48.9%)

The only thing you have to worry about is Explosion, which isn't even that common (only on 6% of Genesect) and leads to Genesect dying, which is a win IMO.

Emboar is pretty great on the special side of things. Just as an illustration of its bulk: 252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Emboar: 201-237 (47.5 - 56%)

There are some other things it handles really well. It walls special Mega Lucario. It walls freaking wallbreaker (252 Atk / 252 SpA Quiet with Shadow Ball / Shadow Sneak / Sacred Sword) Aegislash. It handles Heatran really well, even LO with Earth Power (it's not 2HKOed with 248/252+ AV). Thundurus-I is walled. Gengar is walled. Sub Kyurem-B (216 SpA with Ice Beam / Fusion Bolt / Earth Power) is walled. It takes a max of 66.6% from the first hit of Knock Off from +2 Bisharp. From Goodra:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Emboar: 195-231 (46 - 54.6%) -- 57% chance to 2HKO

tbh I can see AV Emboar being a damn impressive Pokemon once I get the chance to test it out.

and you do that why when Conkeldurr exists? and good look hitting anything back with that spread. i can't think of anything in Emboars movepool that makes it a good Assault Vest users. Does it get Knock Off? Recovery? no it gets recoil moves and stat lowering moves out the Wazoo. it just won't work with a Vest.