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First off I've been trying to get Reuniclus ranked for like forever. Reuniclus is a very solid pokemon despite its lackluster typing and the metagame shifts recently towards faster wallbreakers like keldeo and away from voltturna and priority really benefit it. Reuniclus OTR set still destroys HO while Aegislash can be an issue Shadow Ball, Focus Blast Psyshock can cover it and since Trick Room is in effect "faster" pokemon such as Bisharp can deal with Aegislash incredibly well in Trick Room. Reuniclus' CM stallbreaker set is still good yet outclassed by Clefable in most areas except the added unpredictability that Reuniclus brings being both a stop to HO and stall depending on the set. Reuniclus' offensive power combined with excellent bulk make it a B/B- rank pokemon IMO.
A pokemon that I would like to see bumped up is Escavalier at least to C+ as looking at the C rankings Escavalier clearly does not belong. Assualt Vest Escavalier can fit a large variety of teams because of his excellent typing and requires very little support just a pokemon to absorb burns and fire moves. Pursuit Trapper Escavalier fits really well a very common team structure as of late: Keldeo, Zard Y + pursuit trapper. Drill Run makes Fire types such as Heatran much more wary of switching in while Knock Off makes Escavalier excellent utility. Escavalier is not outclassed by Scizor as it is more powerful with STAB megahorn and is more bulky with an Assault Vest.
Yet every time we discuss new rankings, we get people discussing the same old things every time...
I'll second Reun nom, but I'd see it as B- at best. Psychic is such a liability this gen that it gets a little ridiculous with all the Knock Off spam and Sucker Punching ya see. While his old OTR set is not as epic as it once was, I would still like to see it ranked based on its merits of how useful it is in the fact it can do a heck of a lot at such a slow pace. You have stated the points several times, so I don't think they need to be reiterated.
So everyone's talking about moving Megazard Y down
I agree, he's far too frail and is easily OHKOd by most major OU theats, even WITH drought.
If you predict right, MZardY becomes nothing more than a liability, ESPECIALLY by (the frankly underrated) Galvantula.
252 SpA Galvantula Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 168-198 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Galvantula Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 260-308 (87.2 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 218-257 (73.1 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 338-400 (113.4 - 134.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Think about it like this, if you lead with Focus Sash Galvy and your opponent leads with MegaZardY, Galvy wins.
Galvantula actually outspends MZardY, so not only could a good prediction severely weaken MZardY, it could get him OHKOd (At least by the LO set, Focus Sash can just Volt Switch out)
And I checked the calculator, Galvy gets wrecked by MzardYs Flamethrower. And while 91% accurate Thunders can be risky, the payoff is massive. There are many other examples of how MZardY can get beaten EASILY by "Outclassed" Pokemon, but I think Galvantula proves my point enough.
"Hard to save a slot for" my ass.
So everyone's talking about moving Megazard Y down
I agree, he's far too frail and is easily OHKOd by most major OU theats, even WITH drought.
If you predict right, MZardY becomes nothing more than a liability, ESPECIALLY by (the frankly underrated) Galvantula.
252 SpA Galvantula Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 168-198 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Galvantula Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 260-308 (87.2 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 218-257 (73.1 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 338-400 (113.4 - 134.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Think about it like this, if you lead with Focus Sash Galvy and your opponent leads with MegaZardY, Galvy wins.
Galvantula actually outspends MZardY, so not only could a good prediction severely weaken MZardY, it could get him OHKOd (At least by the LO set, Focus Sash can just Volt Switch out)
And I checked the calculator, Galvy gets wrecked by MzardYs Flamethrower. And while 91% accurate Thunders can be risky, the payoff is massive. There are many other examples of how MZardY can get beaten EASILY by "Outclassed" Pokemon, but I think Galvantula proves my point enough.
"Hard to save a slot for" my ass.
Yeah but basic pokemon logic is that your flying type shouldn't be fighting an electric type. That comment is like saying Raikou sucks because it can't thunderbolt a Diglett. Also Charizard is a wallbreaker and Galvantula isn't what is would call a wall.
Thunder gets 50% acuracy in Sun just like Hurricane. Good luck hitting with Thunder. Also S rank should include Wallbreakers as people are thinking how Zard Y functions as a sweeper instead of a wall breaker. As for the Zard Y beaten by outclassed pokemon subject, in Gen V Golurk would have a niche of being the ultimate counter to Terrakion who was a top tier threat back then, he was massively outclassed but he served a niche in being the best counter to Terrakion. Galvantula only has a niche and a crappy one at that. Sticky web isn't that good thanks to the huge rise of defog and Bisharp.
Edit: Got corrected, forgot Defiant Thundurus isn't hit because of it's flying typing. Thanks for Correcting me.
So everyone's talking about moving Megazard Y down
I agree, he's far too frail and is easily OHKOd by most major OU theats, even WITH drought.
If you predict right, MZardY becomes nothing more than a liability, ESPECIALLY by (the frankly underrated) Galvantula.
252 SpA Galvantula Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 168-198 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Galvantula Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 260-308 (87.2 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 218-257 (73.1 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 338-400 (113.4 - 134.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Think about it like this, if you lead with Focus Sash Galvy and your opponent leads with MegaZardY, Galvy wins.
Galvantula actually outspends MZardY, so not only could a good prediction severely weaken MZardY, it could get him OHKOd (At least by the LO set, Focus Sash can just Volt Switch out)
And I checked the calculator, Galvy gets wrecked by MzardYs Flamethrower. And while 91% accurate Thunders can be risky, the payoff is massive. There are many other examples of how MZardY can get beaten EASILY by "Outclassed" Pokemon, but I think Galvantula proves my point enough.
"Hard to save a slot for" my ass.
Have fun hitting a Thunder in the sun. Also, as the above poster stated, Charizard-Y will never stay in on a Galvantula anyway. Charizard-X also resists Thunder and sets up all over Galvantula, so Galvantula doesn't even check Charizard that well. I'm not sure where Charizard-Y should be, but the fact that it's OHKOed by random niche mons isn't a good reason to drop it.
Yeah but basic pokemon logic is that your flying type shouldn't be fighting an electric type. That comment is like saying Raikou sucks because it can't thunderbolt a Diglett. Also Charizard is a wallbreaker and Galvantula isn't what is would call a wall.
Fire VS Bug. People don't tend to think about the Flying type of Charizard (seriously, it's more of a fucking hindrance)
I can put up a list of OU relevant threats that can wreck CharizardY
Anything with Stone Edge
Rock Tomb Breloom as fodder (lol)
Dragonite
252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 181-214 (60.7 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 121-143 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 108-128 (33.3 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
And that's not counting Weakness Policy. Seriously, Dnite kills Charizard, smashes his face into the ground and makes him cry.
While Dragonite might not be the most common Dragon type anymore, there are STILL a lot of things that wreck YZards day.
Hell, I haven't even mentioned Stealth Rock. That makes things WORSE.
Yes, he's a good wall breaker, but so is Escavilier (base 135 attack) and he's C rank (I haven't used him enough to say move him up, I'm just saying that he's a wall breaker like Yzard)
Honestly, I think he's going to get the same fate as MVenasuar, now that people are finding things to check Yzard with, he's not gonna be S-Rank. And no, "XZard is S rank so Yzard has to be too" is NOT an excuse, I've seen that a bit, and that's just BS. (Not calling anyone out on it, just saying)
Can Breloom even switch in on Zard? No it can't. If you have to sack a pokemon in order to kill the wallbreaker then the wallbreaker did it's job. Dragonite can't switch in if there are rocks.
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 238-280 (73.4 - 86.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I made a post about what can switch in reliably and what can't, read it. If you have to revenge kill Zard Y then Zard Y did its job.
Fire VS Bug. People don't tend to think about the Flying type of Charizard (seriously, it's more of a fucking hindrance)
I can put up a list of OU relevant threats that can wreck CharizardY
Anything with Stone Edge
Rock Tomb Breloom as fodder (lol)
Dragonite
252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 181-214 (60.7 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 121-143 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 108-128 (33.3 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
And that's not counting Weakness Policy. Seriously, Dnite kills Charizard, smashes his face into the ground and makes him cry.
While Dragonite might not be the most common Dragon type anymore, there are STILL a lot of things that wreck YZards day.
Hell, I haven't even mentioned Stealth Rock. That makes things WORSE.
Yes, he's a good wall breaker, but so is Escavilier (base 135 attack) and he's C rank (I haven't used him enough to say move him up, I'm just saying that he's a wall breaker like Yzard)
Honestly, I think he's going to get the same fate as MVenasuar, now that people are finding things to check Yzard with, he's not gonna be S-Rank. And no, "XZard is S rank so Yzard has to be too" is NOT an excuse, I've seen that a bit, and that's just BS. (Not calling anyone out on it, just saying)
Yet you weren't think of the flying type as you posted calcs of a super effective electric type attack on a fire type...
And vee, that's nice that you can post a list of things that severely hurt Char Y, but how many of those damn things are actual counters, not checks? Terrakion can't switch in due to the beating he gets from Solarbeam, Breloom (even sashed) can't do anything as he can't take a hit from the sun bearer to save his life!
Also, there is no need for Dragon pulse when Fire Blast deals roughly the same damage in Sun, as stated not so long ago when someone brought up Latios as a counter. Dragonite is probably one of the few who can just switch in, but he really wishes he hadn't sometimes as it is all upon if multiscale is up, and that is critical when he himself is slower than Char Y, and your post shows non Band Extremespeed 3HKOing.
Then the argue.ent about one Zard being S while the other isn't because just them originating from the same thing, but because the fact that just that it could be either or is the scariest thing! There is no one counter for both Zards, and sending in a blob to Zard thinking Y but getting X is game breaking as is sending Quag to take on X and instead faces a Solarbeam makes it die a quick death.
Then there's the fact alot of supposed counters can't work till the mega evolve. Sp. Def Hippowdon can go in till Char becomes Y or else it risks Sand being over ridden by Sun. Tyranitar is in the same boat as it may not be able to cushion the Focus Blast with its Sand boost.
And just cause people have things to check Zard with, does not make it tea try to drop. Venu dropped due to the rise in Psychic covers the and utility after the fall of their biggest hurdle, Genesect, thus making several of his counters much more viable. Char Y on the other hand has three in the form Goodra, Chansey, and Blissey, who can hardly be considered game breaking as they are the best of the best when it comes to Special walls.
Sorry if I sounded pissy but this argument has come up so many times and been refuted time and time again that its getting old.
Have fun hitting a Thunder in the sun. Also, as the above poster stated, Charizard-Y will never stay in on a Galvantula anyway. Charizard-X also resists Thunder and sets up all over Galvantula, so Galvantula doesn't even check Charizard that well. I'm not sure where Charizard-Y should be, but the fact that it's OHKOed by random niche mons isn't a good reason to drop it.
Thunder gets 50% acuracy in Sun just like Hurricane. Good luck hitting with Thunder. Also S rank should include Wallbreakers as people are thinking how Zard Y functions as a sweeper instead of a wall breaker. As for the Zard Y beaten by outclassed pokemon subject, in Gen V Golurk would have a niche of being the ultimate counter to Terrakion who was a top tier threat back then, he was massively outclassed but he served a niche in being the best counter to Terrakion. Galvantula only has a niche and a crappy one at that. Sticky web isn't that good thanks to the huge rise of defog and Bisharp.
Edit: Got corrected, forgot Defiant Thundurus isn't hit because of it's flying typing. Thanks for Correcting me.
One word: COMPOUNDEYES
And if Galvantula was a "Random Niche" it wouldn't be B-
Seriously, just because it isn't A or S doesn't mean it's shit. My points are flawed, but immeaditly denouncing something as "a randomn niche" isn't a valid point either. Maybe if you actually used Galvantula you'd understand. While the Bisharp point is valid. Let me counter that with not Sticky Webbing if you see Bisharp? And as for Defog, again valid point, but there's ways around it, especially on things like Latias and Mandibuzz. And while XZard rapes Galvantula, Dragonite rapes both X and Y Zard (to some extent). As for the Golurk argument, Golurk had NO niche outside of Terrakion. Galvantula has MORE than that, that's why its B-. I don't know why people denounce anything below A rank. If I brought a Rotom W into battle, you'd know what set I'd using, Galvantula however you might not know. Alright rant over. TL:DR, don't shit on less viable mons.
One word: COMPOUNDEYES
And if Galvantula was a "Random Niche" it wouldn't be B-
Seriously, just because it isn't A or S doesn't mean it's shit. My points are flawed, but immeaditly denouncing something as "a randomn niche" isn't a valid point either. Maybe if you actually used Galvantula you'd understand. While the Bisharp point is valid. Let me counter that with not Sticky Webbing if you see Bisharp? And as for Defog, again valid point, but there's ways around it, especially on things like Latias and Mandibuzz. And while XZard rapes Galvantula, Dragonite rapes both X and Y Zard (to some extent). As for the Golurk argument, Golurk had NO niche outside of Terrakion. Galvantula has MORE than that, that's why its B-. I don't know why people denounce anything below A rank. If I brought a Rotom W into battle, you'd know what set I'd using, Galvantula however you might not know. Alright rant over. TL:DR, don't shit on less viable mons.
Okay, fine. Compundeyes gives Thunder a whopping 65% accuracy in the sun. That's still awful. Also, I called Galvantula a niche mon because it is one. Its only use is Sticky Web, therefore, it is a niche mon. If a mon that is only usable because of one move (not even that good of a move) and is in a lower tier isn't a niche mon, I don't know what is.
One word: COMPOUNDEYES
And if Galvantula was a "Random Niche" it wouldn't be B-
Seriously, just because it isn't A or S doesn't mean it's shit. My points are flawed, but immeaditly denouncing something as "a randomn niche" isn't a valid point either. Maybe if you actually used Galvantula you'd understand. While the Bisharp point is valid. Let me counter that with not Sticky Webbing if you see Bisharp? And as for Defog, again valid point, but there's ways around it, especially on things like Latias and Mandibuzz. And while XZard rapes Galvantula, Dragonite rapes both X and Y Zard (to some extent). As for the Golurk argument, Golurk had NO niche outside of Terrakion. Galvantula has MORE than that, that's why its B-. I don't know why people denounce anything below A rank. If I brought a Rotom W into battle, you'd know what set I'd using, Galvantula however you might not know. Alright rant over. TL:DR, don't shit on less viable mons.
Great job completely ignoring the post above yours! Mega Charizard Y has very few counters and is near impossible to wall, just because it is weak to Stone Edge doesn't make it shit, it has a weakness, so what? Weaknesses should be taken into consideration, but they should not be your entire argument.
Can Breloom even switch in on Zard? No it can't. If you have to sack a pokemon in order to kill the wallbreaker then the wallbreaker did it's job. Dragonite can't switch in if there are rocks.
52+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 238-280 (73.4 - 86.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I made a post about what can switch in reliably and what can't, read it. If you have to revenge kill Zard Y then Zard Y did its job.
Multiscale.
You forgot Multiscale.
Also, yes, sacking a mon does mean that. But it's another role that it fills. Plus it's not like suicide lead Breloom is rare.
Multiscale.
You forgot Multiscale.
Also, yes, sacking a mon does mean that. But it's another role that it fills. Plus it's not like suicide lead Breloom is rare.
Stealth Rock.
You forgot Stealth Rock.
Also, no, Multiscale will not always be in tact. But it's not a counter. Plus it's not like Multiscale is a golden net of safety.
Multiscale.
You forgot Multiscale.
Also, yes, sacking a mon does mean that. But it's another role that it fills. Plus it's not like suicide lead Breloom is rare.
Great job completely ignoring the post above yours! Mega Charizard Y has very few counters and is near impossible to wall, just because it is weak to Stone Edge doesn't make it shit, it has a weakness, so what? Weaknesses should be taken into consideration, but they should not be your entire argument.
Stealth Rock.
You forgot Stealth Rock.
Also, no, Multiscale will not always be in tact. But it's not a counter. Plus it's not like Multiscale is a golden net of safety.
Yet you weren't think of the flying type as you posted calcs of a super effective electric type attack on a fire type...
And vee, that's nice that you can post a list of things that severely hurt Char Y, but how many of those damn things are actual counters, not checks? Terrakion can't switch in due to the beating he gets from Solarbeam, Breloom (even sashed) can't do anything as he can't take a hit from the sun bearer to save his life!
Also, there is no need for Dragon pulse when Fire Blast deals roughly the same damage in Sun, as stated not so long ago when someone brought up Latios as a counter. Dragonite is probably one of the few who can just switch in, but he really wishes he hadn't sometimes as it is all upon if multiscale is up, and that is critical when he himself is slower than Char Y, and your post shows non Band Extremespeed 3HKOing.
Then the argue.ent about one Zard being S while the other isn't because just them originating from the same thing, but because the fact that just that it could be either or is the scariest thing! There is no one counter for both Zards, and sending in a blob to Zard thinking Y but getting X is game breaking as is sending Quag to take on X and instead faces a Solarbeam makes it die a quick death.
Then there's the fact alot of supposed counters can't work till the mega evolve. Sp. Def Hippowdon can go in till Char becomes Y or else it risks Sand being over ridden by Sun. Tyranitar is in the same boat as it may not be able to cushion the Focus Blast with its Sand boost.
And just cause people have things to check Zard with, does not make it tea try to drop. Venu dropped due to the rise in Psychic covers the and utility after the fall of their biggest hurdle, Genesect, thus making several of his counters much more viable. Char Y on the other hand has three in the form Goodra, Chansey, and Blissey, who can hardly be considered game breaking as they are the best of the best when it comes to Special walls.
Sorry if I sounded pissy but this argument has come up so many times and been refuted time and time again that its getting old.
Y'know what? I give.
Your arguments are all more valid than mine.
I shouldn't be trying to prove my electric spider can kill a winged lizard.
Fuck it, I'm out.
Why are we on the whole Galvantula vs. Charizard thing again? Anyway, I second Rueniclues for B-. It is still really powerful and is an interesting status absorber this gen. Access to reliable recovery and solid bulk allow it to take many hits throughout a match. Knock offs recent rise in popularity does make it a little less useful this gen and priority kind of screws up the old Trick Room sets, but it is still a solid member of any bulky offensive team. It's also a neat offensive regenerator pivot.
Y'know what? I give.
Your arguments are all more valid than mine.
I shouldn't be trying to prove my electric spider can kill a winged lizard.
Fuck it, I'm out.
We understand that Charizard can be killed by an electric type. It just seems as if you're discounting all the arguments that disprove what you're saying. Galvantula's Thunder is extremely inaccurate in the Sun, and should not be relied on. Your whole argument is based around the fact that Charizard Y is staying in on Galvantula, something any competent player will not do.
I disagree with Reuniclus in B-. The calm mind set is taken down by many common offensive pokemon and is completely walled by Aegislash. As people have mentioned, its psychic typing is really a liability as its pursuit weak, and can be sucker punched. Its OFT set can be stalled out with protect, has trouble with bulky mons that can take its unboosted moves, and it has trouble in this priority infested meta. In particular, Bisharp is a full stop to it and talonflame can deal a good 63.9 - 75.7% with brave bird. As a defensive pivot, Slowbro, and even Slowking can do this better, as they have better bulk and better defensive typing.
Because of these flaws I think C+ would fit Reuniclus better.
I disagree with Reuniclus in B-. The calm mind set is taken down by many common offensive pokemon and is completely walled by Aegislash. As people have mentioned, its psychic typing is really a liability as its pursuit weak, and can be sucker punched. Its OFT set can be stalled out with protect, has trouble with bulky mons that can take its unboosted moves, and it has trouble in this priority infested meta. In particular, Bisharp is a full stop to it and talonflame can deal a good 63.9 - 75.7% with brave bird. As a defensive pivot, Slowbro, and even Slowking can do this better, as they have better bulk and better defensive typing.
Because of these flaws I think C+ would fit Reuniclus better.
The CM set doesn't care about being taken down by offensive pokemon because its entire job is to screw stall sideways. However, I'll give you that the OTR set isn't as effective as it once was - the influx of priority definitely hurt it, as did Aegislash and Bisharp, so it needs several more things removed before sweeping. Finally, Reuniclus really isn't built to be a defensive pivot (if you're comparing it to Slowbro and King because it gets Regenerator, don't - Magic Guard is infinitely better), but to sweep either Stall or HO with little trouble.
The CM set doesn't care about being taken down by offensive pokemon because its entire job is to screw stall sideways. However, I'll give you that the OTR set isn't as effective as it once was - the influx of priority definitely hurt it, as did Aegislash and Bisharp, so it needs several more things removed before sweeping. Finally, Reuniclus really isn't built to be a defensive pivot (if you're comparing it to Slowbro and King because it gets Regenerator, don't - Magic Guard is infinitely better), but to sweep either Stall or HO with little trouble.
I do agree that its pretty good against stall. However, I've tried to use CM Reuniclus and have found that, in general it struggles too much against offensive teams and is too often deadweight to be worth it against stall teams, which are rarer than offense for the most part.
I do agree that its pretty good against stall. However, I've tried to use CM Reuniclus and have found that, in general it struggles too much against offensive teams and is too often deadweight to be worth it against stall teams, which are rarer than offense for the most part.
CM isn't completely useless against offense, but I see your point there. I'm basically thinking that being a one-pokemon stop to stall is worthy of B-. While stall is rare on the Showdown ladder, I believe it sees much more use in the upper ladder and in tournaments, so carrying a Reuniclus to reliably stop it would be worth it. I may be misjudging the cutoff to B-, but in my opinion this and the less effective but still good OTR set deserve B-.
Honestly C+ is close enough for me, I'm just nitpicking at this point XD
