Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

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Albacore

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Sorry to interrupt this heated discussion of A+ and S ranks, but I'd like to nominate Lanturn for C- or even C, I've been trying this thing out a bit and it's really impressed me, I honestly I feel like it's much better than the other D ranks. The thing about the D rank is that it's populated with Pokemon who all fit on very, very specific team archetypes : Salamence is only good on Dragspam, Venomoth on Baton Pass teams, Dugtrio on certain types of semi-stall, etc. Lanturn, on the other hand, feels to me like a perfectly legitimate option on quite a number of completely non-gimmicky balanced/bulky offense teams, and I'm going to try and explain why.

Now, Lanturn might seem outclassed by Rotom-W as a defensive pivot, but it's really not. Think of it as a specially defensive counterpart to it. Rotom-W's Ground immunity makes it better at dealing with physical Pokemon such as Excadrill and Landorus-T, and is, admittedly, a pretty massive selling point, but one thing Lanturn does much better than Rotom-W is deal special attackers, thanks to a combination of its superior special bulk (takes special hits around 20% better assuming max SpD investment on both) and ability. Obviously, it counters most Thundurus, even checking the mixed set decently depending on Attack investment. It also walls Magnezone, and walls it hard. Seriously, if you want a perfect answer to Magnezone, Lanturn's your mon. Same applies to MManectric, as well as Raikou and Rotom-W. It does other stuff than completely stop Volt Switch from ever happening. It deals with Greninja pretty well, the most damage it'll take from it is around 45% from HP Grass which is seen less and less on Greninja. The fact that it beats 2 of the biggest threats in the metagame is in and of itself pretty impressive.

Movepool-wise, Lanturn has 2 considerable advantages over Rotom-W. The first is Heal Bell. This is pretty significant since viable Heal Bell users are pretty scarce in OU. I mean, we've got Chansey, Clefable, Celebi, Sylveon, Mew (if it can fit it), Togekiss (once again, can't usually fit it), Mega-Ampharos (who now that I think of it is pretty big competition for Lanturn though it blatantly loses to Greninja, and takes up your mega Slot, and gets worn down much more easily, and doesn't actually stop Volt Switch from happening, so I think it's safe to say Lanturn has a lot of perks over it), Dragonite (lol), Mega-Gardevoir (don't think this can viably use Heal Bell but I may be wrong since SpD MGarde is a thing apparently?), Gothitelle (lol), Granbull, and Espeon (no comment). Off all these, the only ones I'd ever consider using are Chansey, Clefable, Celebi, Sylveon and maybe MAmpharos. Heal Bell can be pretty important for a lot of teams, especially ones with frail powerhouses that are prone to status and which are exactly the kind of teams a slow pivot fits on, so Heal Bell is a really significant advantage over Rotom-W. Not only does it support teammates, but it supports Lanturn too. One of the biggest problems with Rotom is that it gets worn down a lot by burn and poison, so being able to just get rid of that is really nice.

The other is Scald. Let's face it, Hydro Pump sucks on Rotom-W. It's inaccurate and can very easily run out of PP, leaving you to get PP stalled or miss stalled a lot of the time. Rotom-W would absolutely kill for the spammable, accurate, rage-inducing water STAB that is Scald. No WoW isn't really too much of a problem for Lanturn since it's meant to beat special threats, but Scald really helps a ton when it comes to wearing stuff down. Honestly, I'm not sure if I really need to explain why access to Scald is a major plus over Rotom-W. I guess Ice Beam can also be considered a selling point, since it chips away at Latis but tbh, it doesn't really do that much to them. I personally prefer Toxic or TWave since that means you're no longer setup fodder for XZard.

This may be because no-one really knows what Lanturn does, but it ends up eating a lot of Volt Switches and Thunderbolts, and therefore generally lives a lot longer than Rotom-W usually does as long as I play it right. As I said, Ground immunity is a really, really big deal for Rotom-W, and the reason it's so much higher than Lanturn on the viability ranking in the first place. But a way to get health back without having to rely on Pain Split makes Lanturn a lot harder to wear down. It's a great deterrent to using Volt Switch in general which is always a plus.

Overral, I feel like there are enough situations where Laturn is a good pick on teams for it to warrant a rise. For instance, I recently made a team that needed a Greninja switchin, specifically HP Fire Greninja (I have a Ferrothorn on it so I wan't worried about HP Grass variants) as well as a good switchin to Thundurus, and also wanted a Heal Bell user. Clefable seemed to fit the bill perfectly, however, I started to spot a massive Magezone weakness. I replaced Clefable by Lanturn, and as it turned out it worked like a charm. You may just dismiss this nomination, but seriously, try Lanturn out. It's actually quite a decent Pokemon, so it's a shame it's completely overlooked by everyone. If you want something a bit like Rotom-W but don't really need a check to Pinsir or Sand, and instead would rather have something that stops Magnezone, Thundurus, and Greninja, I would recommend it. Lanturn is particularly good right now given how common Electric-types and Greninja are at the moment. In any case, and in my opinion, it's far less niche than anything currently sitting in D.

Lanturn for C

edit : also support MTTar dropping, I've tried it out and it doesn't pull its weight nearly as often as it should in all honesty. Has a tough time setting up and a tough time sweeping too, suffers from the omnipresence of scarf Lando-T, ruined by sand (which he provides himself so the opposing team doesn't even need to do it for Exca), ruined by rain. It's a good win condition if you can pull the DD off, but that's a big "if". Most of the time it'll just fire off a couple of Stone Edges or Ice Punch, dent something, and get forced out/KOed. It ultimately suffers from the same flaws as DD XZard, except it doesn't have all the other sets (Wisp, 3 Attacks, even Wisp DD) that makes XZard such a threat in general. If MGyara is A then MTTar needs to be A- because it's clearly not as good.
 
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I just want to add to what alba said a particular reason to use Lanturn over washtom. Lanturn hard counters 2 incredibly popular mons atm, Mman and Magnezone, who both shit on a popular balanced core of Washtom + Ferrothorn. Using Lanturn, you dont lose the ability to check mons that washtom deals with, but you also have a reliable way of stopping those two terrors in the same slot, not bad for some piece of NU trash. Ima go and test it some more but as it currently stands I firmly agree with Lanturn for C.
 
Lanturn also has a key trait for many teams: Volt Absorb itself.
"Volturn" teams are very common, and those rely on offensive pressure to weaken and then plow through passive teams. Having an immunity to Volt Switch that isn't threatened by HP Ice on every switch-in and a slow Volt Switch together allows for teams featuring Lanturn to regain momentum on the match, which helps a lot on those matchups. Checking overall dangerous threats such as Manectric, Raikou, Magnezone, Thundurus and Greninja and having access to Heal Bell and Scald is also pretty nice.
While it is by no means a great Pokémon, lacking in power and durability, it is certainly useful and better than most of C- and D-ranked Pokémon and should go up imo.
 

alexwolf

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Tyranitar: A ---> A-
Mega Gardevoir: A ---> A+
Mega Alakazam: A- ---> B+


Tyranitar: I'm kind of on the fence here, but leaning towards A. Tyranitar has really fallen from grace as the metagame has evolved, but he's still one of the most used mons for a reason. Hippowdon really is kind of outclassed by Landorus-T nowadays, so this dude is the main thing to support Excadrill. Of course mold breaker scarf and stuff is viable, but sand rush Excadrill is the most threatening Excadrill by a lot. Tyranitar can be a decent check to stuff like CharX and Talonflame and has a very wide movepool, making him a good supportive stealth rock setter. Recently, new developments like HP fighting Latios are really a pain though, and I think this is why he's no longer A+, but A is still good. Most people forget it can do other stuff too. I have one team that's volturn and it's built around getting in CB Tyranitar and Medicham- it works pretty well for trapping Latis without HP fight, which means rocks are most definitely permanent. Scarf is also pretty awesome, takes out Latis and Gengar. With these gone, stuff like Keldeo and Charizard-Y can go to town on the opposing team. BW keldtar is still excellent if you can check Clefable, and CharTar is also great. I don't have a ton to say here, but basically it supports Excadrill, supports Keldeo and Charizard-Y (among other special sweepers who appreciate pursuit support.) and has a really awesome movepool. Is it amazing? No, it has a lot of common weaknesses. However, I think empowering sand offense is enough to verify it's placement in the A tier, Excadrill kind of needs him. Tyranitar + Latios + Ground + Ferrothorn/Heatran + Water + Mega is a really common and solid team, and cannot function without Tyranitar.

Mega Gardevoir: This mon is interesting, and I think it should move up. The main issue is it doesn't have any physical bulk, and you need to get it in on certain mons to make it work well. If you do, it will kill things. Due to the typing and SpD, it's pretty hard to revenge kill for offense. Nowadays, stall can beat it (Doublade...) but it still puts in work there. Along with Pinsir and CharX, this is one of the few megas that has immediate jaw dropping power. Hyper voice is nuts, and all that can really take it is steels and fire types, which are downed by fighting and psychic moves respectively. It has almost no counters, and gets kills vs. balance pretty much every game if played right. The main flaw is that it has awful defense, so it is easy to revenge kill. It can take one special hit from almost anything, which means it can kill them, usually in one hit. Sorry for repetition, but once it comes in on something like Ferrothorn, very little can take its powerful hits. The speed tier is not amazing, but it is often good enough. In summary, little switches in, very few counters, bad physical defense, medicore speed. I'm not sure if it deserves A+, but I think that's enough, it's definitely as good as some other pokemon up there.

Mega Alakazam: Yep, completely agree here. I never really understood why Alakazam jumped all of a sudden, it's not that amazing. To be blunt, Alakazam is fast and powerful. It's stupidly fast, I will undeniably deign it that (it outspeed everything boosted.) However, it is not that powerful. It cannot OHKO uninvested Charizard and similar mons. With the right coverage it can 2HKO almost anything, but it really can't take any hits. Before he can even revenge kill or get off an encore, he is susceptible to priority. Unlike fast mons like Aerodactyl, Alakazam can't take any priority, and will fall to Pinsir, Dragonite, etc. This really bothers me, and makes his role as a revenge killer situational. Thundurus has a bit of bulk to taje some priority, and why he might not kill things, he can at least make them useless. Encore is only really useful against set up sweepers if Alakazam comes in the turn the set up move is used, which can only be safely facilitated through U-Turn or Volt Switch. It can also be a hinderance to support mons using stuff like stealth rock. Alakazam basically needs Psychic/Focus Blast/Shadow Ball to work well, and encore is one of its main selling points, necessary in the fourth slot. Without shadow ball... Latios can defog and roost, before finishing him off, Psychic is STAB, and Focus Blast is for steels. Even with this, he can't 2HKO everything, or OHKO where his moves are super effective. So this is my summary: very fast, but not strong enough to always revenge kill, weak to priority, and not powerful enough to sweep stuff. Doesn't sound like a B+ mon, but there's one thing I left out: Trace. Alakazam uses this do goddamn well it's ridiculous. While Landorus has dropped in usage and viability, a Mega Alakazam revenging it is ridiculous, and offense without strong priority or a mon bulky enough to take a sheer force boosted move are in serious trouble- it's pretty much always guaranteed at least the kill on Landorus or whatever it switches into. Next is protean from Greninja, which is almost just as bad, but the nuclear psychics of sheer force are not present. Zam can switch in to Heatran and absorb what's often its only attack. While those are the best examples, other abilities have uses too. Zam has some flaws, but this introduces a threatening dynamic which can make him worth the mega slot, but not always. Hence, I think B+ is appropriate.
I will focus on Mega Gardevoir and Mega Alakazam. You say that Mega Gardevoir is hard to revenge kill for offensive teams, but this is not true in the slightest, especially with how physically based most offensive teams are. In addition, some popular special attackers can even OHKO Mega Gardevoir with SR, such as Gengar and Sludge Wave Landorus. Moving on, the ''almost no counters'' part is hugely exaggerated. SpD Talonflame, Mega Scizor, Jirachi, Chansey, Doublade, and Victini are all great soft/hard counters. Yeah, some of them have trouble against Mega Gardevoir depending on what it carries on the last moveslot, but it's not like it's 4th move lets it OHKO its counters, there are still ways to play around it. For example, even though a burned Mega Scizor, Jirachi, and Doublade are significantly crippled, they can still stick around long enough to deal with Mega Gardevoir. Mega Gardevoir still puts immense work against defensive teams because of how many Pokemon it forces out and because it can fuck up most of its checks and counters, but with Pokemon such as Doublade, Jirachi, and Victini rising in usage and viability, it's less potent against defensive teams than it used to be. All in all, Mega Gardevoir is definitely one of the best A Pokemon, but i am not sure it belongs in A+. Could go either way, but i have my reservations.

As for Mega Alakazam, you are being too harsh to it for the wrong reasons. Mega Alakazam is a revenge killer and a cleaner, so you need to see what his pros and cons are within those roles to determine its viability. Saying that it lacks power or is frail in general is meaningless, as Mega Alakazam's power is plenty to do its job, and it's not supposed to be taking any hits. So, let's see some really fast Pokemon that you would expect your revenge killer to take care of that Mega Alakazam outspeeds:
  • Sand Rush Excadrill
  • Scarf Heatran
  • Greninja
  • +1 Dragonite
  • + Mega Gyarados
  • + Mega Tyranitar
  • Mega Manectric
  • Omastar
  • Kingdra
  • Kabutops
With a moveset of Psychic / Focus Blast / Shadow Ball / Hidden Power Ice, Mega Alakazam OHKOes every single of those Pokemon after SR, except from Mega Manectric (you need Timid to outspeed it, which has a 43.8% chance to OHKO after SR, but getting two SR round on it is pretty easy) and Kingdra. So, this doesn't sound as a revenge killer that lacks power at all, quite the opposite actually.

And when it comes to cleaning, there are few Pokemon as good as Mega Alakazam at doing it, such as Sand Rush Excadrill, Mega Manectric, and SubSD Hawlucha. However, Excadrill needs sand support and SubSD Hawlucha needs to set up. Mega Manectric is quite similar to Mega Alakazam when it comes to cleaning, though it's easier to wall, has Volt Switch, resists many priority moves, and revenge kills a different array of Pokemon (Talonflame, SD Mega Scizor, Mega Pinsir). All in all though, Mega Alakazam and Mega Manectric are really close in efficiency as cleaners, and Mega Manectric is currently in A-.

Finally, Trace. Trace gives your offensive team a good switch-in to Heatran, lets you take advantage of very common Pokemon such as Greninja and Landorus, revenge kill weather sweepers, and last but not least, trap and KO any kind of Magnezone. I don't know if people have realized that Mega Alakazam can do this, but it's a huge deal, because Mega Alakazam can both serve as a partner to Pokemon that appreciate Magnezone gone, such as Talonflame, and make sure that the opponent can't pressure your Steel-types for free, as every time the opponent wants to bring in Magnezone, it has to be careful of Mega Alakazam, assuming Mega Alakazam came in second. Oh, and if the opponent depends a lot on Magnezone to get rid of Steel-types, Magnezone can't get a KO on anything else other than the Steel-type, because then it will get eliminated by Mega Alakazam.

So, Mega Alakazam should definitely stay in A-.

On a different matter, i think it's time Gengar moves up to A+. It has become the standard early-game wallbreaker on offensive teams and it's no wonder why, as its 3 attacks + Taunt LO set is impossible to straight up wall and does work against every single playstyle. Gengar is also one of the best ways to take advantage of the Psychic-types that are everywhere. It's not that different from Greninja tbh, which just moved up to S rank. Yes, Greninja can outspeed some very important Pokemon that Gengar can't and has Spikes, but Gengar is way more difficult to counter, has a more spammable STAB, and better resistances and immunities, as well as some important support moves that Greninja lacks, such as WoW and Destiny Bond. Even though Greninja is overall better, it's in no way two sub-ranks better than Gengar, so it only makes sense to move Gengar up.
 
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I just want to add to what alba said a particular reason to use Lanturn over washtom. Lanturn hard counters 2 incredibly popular mons atm, Mman and Magnezone, who both shit on a popular balanced core of Washtom + Ferrothorn. Using Lanturn, you dont lose the ability to check mons that washtom deals with, but you also have a reliable way of stopping those two terrors in the same slot, not bad for some piece of NU trash. Ima go and test it some more but as it currently stands I firmly agree with Lanturn for C.
What exactly is it you are trying? Is it Calm max sp def? Or are you investing in any physical bulk too?

Or is it worth trying a specs set with sp atk investment?
 
What exactly is it you are trying? Is it Calm max sp def? Or are you investing in any physical bulk too?

Or is it worth trying a specs set with sp atk investment?
Atm I'm running the standard nu pivot set but with heal bell and protect instead of ice beam. Its a mixed bulk set, mainly bc 125 hp doesn't need much investment. It avoids the 3hko from band bird after lefties and comfortably takes special hitswhile also providing clerical duties

Also am seconding Gengar to A+. Right now, the meta has shifted very favourably towards lo gar, this thing gets a good deal of free switches and deals with both garde and cham, who are both very difficult to play against, not to mention outspeeding certain threats like hp fire latis and beating them. Sludge wave + shadow ball are extremely spammable and mean that gengar lacks safe switch ins, nothing can take those two moves and focus blast, outspeed, and ko safely. Mons like scarf lando risk wisp variants, crippling them, and most faster mons that do threaten it require a free switch in. please move to A+
 
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Just another small note on the lanturn discussion: even without needing to use it, just the threat of volt absorb can stop a volt-turn team from even attempting it's strategy in some cases; especially if lanturn is paired with a ground type like landorus or garchomp. It is a magnificent stop to a very dangerous playstyle, and can even execute it itself, which is borderline trollish. In fact, there are few better feelings than switching lanturn in on a predicted mega manectric's volt switch, forcing it out, and then volt switching yourself. One-upping other more popular members of a popular strategy is enough of a niche in my book to move lanturn up.
 
I think that the ranking needs a few changes after I see the stats (I used the 1695 ones, not the zero):

I'm starting centering in the lower ranks.

Mantine should be off of the list: Mantine is listed 208 in the usage statistics (which is pretty low) which indeicates that mantine is not OU viable. It may have a niche of bulky water with Defog, but the lack of good offensive presence, the not-so good typing (compared to Skarmory), the big competition from many pokemon for the slot, and a lack of recovery means that Mantine should be off of the list.

Gourgeist-Small should be off of the list: When have you seen a Gourgeist-Small on the ladder? Probably never. Also, I don't see the niche because his only good physical Ghost STAB has 40 BP (Shadow Sneak) and Grass typing hasn't the most neutral coverage.

Granbull should be off of the list: Granbull has bad special bulk and horrible speed for his bulk. Not only that, but is outclassed by Cleable in many roles except y Intimidate and that attacks physically.

Tornadus should drop to D: The only niche is providing rain team of a manual Rain Dance setter. Everything else is better done y Thundurus-I (Prankster roles) or Tornadus-T (attacking, supporting) which are superior in general.

Magenton should drop to C-: The reason is absically that his evolution, Magnezone, outclass it. Specially if Magneton has to run a Scarf (which means no Eviolite).

Roserade should be ranked to D: In general, is outclassed hard by Ammonguss and specially Mega Venusaur. I think that Roserade has a legitimate uses that combined could make Roserade OU viable:
Spikes + Sleep Powder (In gen VI, the combo is legal) added with Technician Hidden Power.

The only niche is in heavy offensive team that can't afford to have a Amoonguss and that they already have a Mega as the key part of the team but they want a Grass/Poison if they're available.

Meloetta should rise to C-: Not a great pokemon, but an annoying one to face.
Why rank it? Because it's a very unpredictable pokemon, (has 4 sets in Aria frome and this thing can change forme with Relic Song (and typing), is one of the better AV users in OU and with her trolly type (Normal/Psychic) that causes her to be inmune to Ghost attacks.

And there's a curiosity when using this pokemon: I'm not surprised if many people (even in the mid-high ladder) see an Hyper Voice and try to switch into one of his Fire types and Poison types to take the attack, think that they are actually very good, only to take massive damage from it.

Metagross should rise to C-: After the Aegislash and Mawile ban, the number of viable Ghost and Dark has been reduced. Also, there's two steel less in the tier to handle. This means that metagross could have a niche on the meta. It may be not the greatest, but has two possible sets that take my attention: An Assault Vest set that is relatively interesting, as a possible lead set where the Pokemon can set up rocks and attack. Note that metagross is not fucked by Magnezone unless it's choiced (Earthquake and aility to tank one Thunderbolt) specially with Choice Scarf.

Reuniclus should rise to D: It's a average Trick Room setter that has it's niche on Balance teams who can attack by his own.

Cofagrigus should rise to C: Same with Reuniclus with the exception that is a etter TR setters, one of the few good ghosts available, with offensive presence (even though is limited to Shadow Ball) and with an annoying ability that takes away from many physical attackers of his abilities. One important case is that if Mega edicham touch Cofagrigus, bye bye Pure Power. And if it switch into HJK, 50% recoil.

Salamence should rise to C- and Hydreigon should rise to C: Salamence has the niche of being a Dragon/Flying type with Dragon Dance that is faster than Dragonite, and has the ability of Moxie causing a oost of his attack. Is in geneeral outclassed by Dragonite and Charizard-X but it isn't exactly a Florges syndrome. About Hydreigon, I think that eing a Dark type gives a more notable niche to many teams as opposed to the Lati@s. Also, it's a pokemon with virtually very few counters, and with many offensive options, which include Fire Blast, Focus Blast and Earth Powerr, moves that Lati@s don't have.

This what I suggest from the lower ranks.
 
I think that the ranking needs a few changes after I see the stats (I used the 1695 ones, not the zero):

I'm starting centering in the lower ranks.

Mantine should be off of the list: Mantine is listed 208 in the usage statistics (which is pretty low) which indeicates that mantine is not OU viable. It may have a niche of bulky water with Defog, but the lack of good offensive presence, the not-so good typing (compared to Skarmory), the big competition from many pokemon for the slot, and a lack of recovery means that Mantine should be off of the list.

Gourgeist-Small should be off of the list: When have you seen a Gourgeist-Small on the ladder? Probably never. Also, I don't see the niche because his only good physical Ghost STAB has 40 BP (Shadow Sneak) and Grass typing hasn't the most neutral coverage.

Granbull should be off of the list: Granbull has bad special bulk and horrible speed for his bulk. Not only that, but is outclassed by Cleable in many roles except y Intimidate and that attacks physically.

Tornadus should drop to D: The only niche is providing rain team of a manual Rain Dance setter. Everything else is better done y Thundurus-I (Prankster roles) or Tornadus-T (attacking, supporting) which are superior in general.

Magenton should drop to C-: The reason is absically that his evolution, Magnezone, outclass it. Specially if Magneton has to run a Scarf (which means no Eviolite).

Roserade should be ranked to D: In general, is outclassed hard by Ammonguss and specially Mega Venusaur. I think that Roserade has a legitimate uses that combined could make Roserade OU viable:
Spikes + Sleep Powder (In gen VI, the combo is legal) added with Technician Hidden Power.

The only niche is in heavy offensive team that can't afford to have a Amoonguss and that they already have a Mega as the key part of the team but they want a Grass/Poison if they're available.

Meloetta should rise to C-: Not a great pokemon, but an annoying one to face.
Why rank it? Because it's a very unpredictable pokemon, (has 4 sets in Aria frome and this thing can change forme with Relic Song (and typing), is one of the better AV users in OU and with her trolly type (Normal/Psychic) that causes her to be inmune to Ghost attacks.

And there's a curiosity when using this pokemon: I'm not surprised if many people (even in the mid-high ladder) see an Hyper Voice and try to switch into one of his Fire types and Poison types to take the attack, think that they are actually very good, only to take massive damage from it.

Metagross should rise to C-: After the Aegislash and Mawile ban, the number of viable Ghost and Dark has been reduced. Also, there's two steel less in the tier to handle. This means that metagross could have a niche on the meta. It may be not the greatest, but has two possible sets that take my attention: An Assault Vest set that is relatively interesting, as a possible lead set where the Pokemon can set up rocks and attack. Note that metagross is not fucked by Magnezone unless it's choiced (Earthquake and aility to tank one Thunderbolt) specially with Choice Scarf.

Reuniclus should rise to D: It's a average Trick Room setter that has it's niche on Balance teams who can attack by his own.

Cofagrigus should rise to C: Same with Reuniclus with the exception that is a etter TR setters, one of the few good ghosts available, with offensive presence (even though is limited to Shadow Ball) and with an annoying ability that takes away from many physical attackers of his abilities. One important case is that if Mega edicham touch Cofagrigus, bye bye Pure Power. And if it switch into HJK, 50% recoil.

Salamence should rise to C- and Hydreigon should rise to C: Salamence has the niche of being a Dragon/Flying type with Dragon Dance that is faster than Dragonite, and has the ability of Moxie causing a oost of his attack. Is in geneeral outclassed by Dragonite and Charizard-X but it isn't exactly a Florges syndrome. About Hydreigon, I think that eing a Dark type gives a more notable niche to many teams as opposed to the Lati@s. Also, it's a pokemon with virtually very few counters, and with many offensive options, which include Fire Blast, Focus Blast and Earth Powerr, moves that Lati@s don't have.

This what I suggest from the lower ranks.
I don't really have much of an opinion on most of these, but magneton is fine at C+. It's scarf set that you laugh off is what acutally gives it an edge. It puts it just above greninja in speed, which allows it to outspeed and KO several pokemon that scarfed magnezone can't. It's not a terribly long list, hence why it's only C+, but it's enough to keep it right where it is. And who runs eviolite magneton? Magneton gets pretty good defensive boosts from an eviolite, but still dies to most of the same earthquakes with it or without it, and without the speed from a scarf, it isn't going to be getting many attacks off, so what would be the point of that? Magneton has way too many weaknesses to many common strong attacks (EQ, CC, Fire Blast) and no reliable recovery, so why would you run an eviolite on it? No, the scarf set is why it's C+, and it's why it should stay C+.
 

Albacore

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Personally, I usually just run max HP max SpD to take Greninja's HP Grass after Rocks (well, 90% of the time but still), though I'm also trying out a spread of 132 HP / 124 Def / 252 SpD with a Calm nature which is optimized to live Knock Off+Superpower from 76 Attack Life Orb Thundurus after rocks and still keep as much special bulk as possible.

Also, what Destiny Device and SomeKidFromJohto said is spot on. Lanturn is just a ridiculously good deterrent to Volt Switching, simply because, unlike most Ground types, there is absolutely no risk whatsoever in switching it in on any volt switcher. Not only that, but instead of just killing your opponent's momentum and getting a free turn like you do when you switch a Ground Type into Volt Switch, you actually get some health back too which is even more punishing. Therefore, a few players I've gone against who actually knew about Volt Absorb resorted to overpredicting it coming in and double-switching with their Volt Switchers every time they sent them in, which ends up becoming really predictable and easy to abuse especially since Volt Switchers tend to come in a lot. The mere presence of Lanturn on your team can play huge mindgames with your opponent and potentially completely stop Volt Switch from ever happening, (while volt switching itself too incidentally, which can easily give it a huge momentum advantage) and this is probably its greatest selling point overall.
 
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Punchshroom

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Mantine should be off of the list: Mantine is listed 208 in the usage statistics (which is pretty low) which indeicates that mantine is not OU viable. It may have a niche of bulky water with Defog, but the lack of good offensive presence, the not-so good typing (compared to Skarmory), the big competition from many pokemon for the slot, and a lack of recovery means that Mantine should be off of the list.
Mantine saw usage since it can respond to monsters like Keldeo, Landorus, and YZard while Defogging in their faces. Since no other Pokemon can respond to such dangerous threats all at once, I can still see it having a rank.

Gourgeist-Small should be off of the list: When have you seen a Gourgeist-Small on the ladder? Probably never. Also, I don't see the niche because his only good physical Ghost STAB has 40 BP (Shadow Sneak) and Grass typing hasn't the most neutral coverage.
If you must know its niche, it's SubSeeding, which it can do decently due to its usable speed and Wisp to wear down Leech-Seed immune targets like Ferrothorn and Venusaur. That said, the meta is extremely unfriendly to it regardless, so I'm not opposed to see this getting unranked.

Roserade should be ranked to D: In general, is outclassed hard by Ammonguss and specially Mega Venusaur. I think that Roserade has a legitimate uses that combined could make Roserade OU viable:
Spikes + Sleep Powder (In gen VI, the combo is legal) added with Technician Hidden Power.

The only niche is in heavy offensive team that can't afford to have a Amoonguss and that they already have a Mega as the key part of the team but they want a Grass/Poison if they're available.
I don't know how about this, I always found that Roserade's stats are always pretty lacking for the job. Its bulk isn't enough to fend off Keldeo and Azumarill (unlike the fellow Grass/Poisons), its Speed isn't quite enough to threaten stuff for free Spikes like Greninja can, and most of all it suffers from some heavy 4MSS. I think the problem with Roserade is trying to combine too many Pokemon's roles at once (Ferrothorn's Spikes, Amoonguss's Sleep move, Mega Venusaur's offensive presence, Celebi's Natural Cure, etc.) and ends up failing to excel at each role as a result.

Meloetta should rise to C-: Not a great pokemon, but an annoying one to face.
Why rank it? Because it's a very unpredictable pokemon, (has 4 sets in Aria frome and this thing can change forme with Relic Song (and typing), is one of the better AV users in OU and with her trolly type (Normal/Psychic) that causes her to be inmune to Ghost attacks.

And there's a curiosity when using this pokemon: I'm not surprised if many people (even in the mid-high ladder) see an Hyper Voice and try to switch into one of his Fire types and Poison types to take the attack, think that they are actually very good, only to take massive damage from it.
Since Ghosts are much rarer in the meta, I can somewhat see this happening. Since Relic Song is harder to stop, Meloetta can switch to its Pirouette Forme much more freely, increasing its unpredictability factor. Facing slight competition from Mega Gardevoir in its base form (which it must start with even if intending to go Piruouette) is a bit of a bummer.

Metagross should rise to C-: After the Aegislash and Mawile ban, the number of viable Ghost and Dark has been reduced. Also, there's two steel less in the tier to handle. This means that metagross could have a niche on the meta. It may be not the greatest, but has two possible sets that take my attention: An Assault Vest set that is relatively interesting, as a possible lead set where the Pokemon can set up rocks and attack. Note that metagross is not fucked by Magnezone unless it's choiced (Earthquake and aility to tank one Thunderbolt) specially with Choice Scarf.
I can also see this happening, simply because it is one of the few usable Steels that check/counter MegaVoir that isn't completely boned by HP Fire and Focus Blast (though it is still kind of screwed by Wisp). It also makes a great Latios trapper, so there is that too.

Cofagrigus should rise to C: Same with Reuniclus with the exception that is a etter TR setters, one of the few good ghosts available, with offensive presence (even though is limited to Shadow Ball) and with an annoying ability that takes away from many physical attackers of his abilities. One important case is that if Mega edicham touch Cofagrigus, bye bye Pure Power. And if it switch into HJK, 50% recoil.
I don't know if countering Mega Medicham is worth giving up offensive presence. I mean things like Slowbro and Mew also respond to MegaCham very well but they aren't as much sitting ducks as Cofagrigus is for the most part, and they have better recovery.

Salamence should rise to C- and Hydreigon should rise to C: Salamence has the niche of being a Dragon/Flying type with Dragon Dance that is faster than Dragonite, and has the ability of Moxie causing a oost of his attack. Is in geneeral outclassed by Dragonite and Charizard-X but it isn't exactly a Florges syndrome. About Hydreigon, I think that eing a Dark type gives a more notable niche to many teams as opposed to the Lati@s. Also, it's a pokemon with virtually very few counters, and with many offensive options, which include Fire Blast, Focus Blast and Earth Powerr, moves that Lati@s don't have.
Is being a faster DDer than Nite really a big deal when Scarf Chomp and Terrakion still outspeed it, and Nite can at least respond to Thundurus's Thunder Wave and Talonflame's Brave Bird? Mega Charizard X also gives Salamence serious competition due to better bulk, Wisp immunity, additional STAB (that doesn't lock the user in!), and Tough Claws for better immediate power, while Mence can only approach that power after a KO. Even if Mence isn't garbage, why would you ever use this over more consistent options? Using Mence instead of XZard is the equivalent of using Lucario over Mega Lucario in the Lucarionite era; you either focus on the Mega that does the job much better, or choose another Pokemon that can do things the Mega cannot. The fact that Mence is not complete shit is what saves it from being unranked.

You shouldn't really compare Hydreigon with Latios since Latios is primarily a hard-hitting Defogger, while Hydra isn't (both wallbreak about equally well). While the increase of Psychics in the meta is good for Hydra, not being able to adequately respond to the premier Ghost of the tier (Gengar) hampers its otherwise handy Dark-typing, and the fact that MegaVoir and MegaCham rose means I fail to see how Hydra got any better in this meta.
 
I think that the ranking needs a few changes after I see the stats (I used the 1695 ones, not the zero):

I'm starting centering in the lower ranks.

Mantine should be off of the list: Mantine is listed 208 in the usage statistics (which is pretty low) which indeicates that mantine is not OU viable. It may have a niche of bulky water with Defog, but the lack of good offensive presence, the not-so good typing (compared to Skarmory), the big competition from many pokemon for the slot, and a lack of recovery means that Mantine should be off of the list.

Gourgeist-Small should be off of the list: When have you seen a Gourgeist-Small on the ladder? Probably never. Also, I don't see the niche because his only good physical Ghost STAB has 40 BP (Shadow Sneak) and Grass typing hasn't the most neutral coverage.

Granbull should be off of the list: Granbull has bad special bulk and horrible speed for his bulk. Not only that, but is outclassed by Cleable in many roles except y Intimidate and that attacks physically.

Tornadus should drop to D: The only niche is providing rain team of a manual Rain Dance setter. Everything else is better done y Thundurus-I (Prankster roles) or Tornadus-T (attacking, supporting) which are superior in general.

Magenton should drop to C-: The reason is absically that his evolution, Magnezone, outclass it. Specially if Magneton has to run a Scarf (which means no Eviolite).

Roserade should be ranked to D: In general, is outclassed hard by Ammonguss and specially Mega Venusaur. I think that Roserade has a legitimate uses that combined could make Roserade OU viable:
Spikes + Sleep Powder (In gen VI, the combo is legal) added with Technician Hidden Power.

The only niche is in heavy offensive team that can't afford to have a Amoonguss and that they already have a Mega as the key part of the team but they want a Grass/Poison if they're available.

Meloetta should rise to C-: Not a great pokemon, but an annoying one to face.
Why rank it? Because it's a very unpredictable pokemon, (has 4 sets in Aria frome and this thing can change forme with Relic Song (and typing), is one of the better AV users in OU and with her trolly type (Normal/Psychic) that causes her to be inmune to Ghost attacks.

And there's a curiosity when using this pokemon: I'm not surprised if many people (even in the mid-high ladder) see an Hyper Voice and try to switch into one of his Fire types and Poison types to take the attack, think that they are actually very good, only to take massive damage from it.

Metagross should rise to C-: After the Aegislash and Mawile ban, the number of viable Ghost and Dark has been reduced. Also, there's two steel less in the tier to handle. This means that metagross could have a niche on the meta. It may be not the greatest, but has two possible sets that take my attention: An Assault Vest set that is relatively interesting, as a possible lead set where the Pokemon can set up rocks and attack. Note that metagross is not fucked by Magnezone unless it's choiced (Earthquake and aility to tank one Thunderbolt) specially with Choice Scarf.

Reuniclus should rise to D: It's a average Trick Room setter that has it's niche on Balance teams who can attack by his own.

Cofagrigus should rise to C: Same with Reuniclus with the exception that is a etter TR setters, one of the few good ghosts available, with offensive presence (even though is limited to Shadow Ball) and with an annoying ability that takes away from many physical attackers of his abilities. One important case is that if Mega edicham touch Cofagrigus, bye bye Pure Power. And if it switch into HJK, 50% recoil.

Salamence should rise to C- and Hydreigon should rise to C: Salamence has the niche of being a Dragon/Flying type with Dragon Dance that is faster than Dragonite, and has the ability of Moxie causing a oost of his attack. Is in geneeral outclassed by Dragonite and Charizard-X but it isn't exactly a Florges syndrome. About Hydreigon, I think that eing a Dark type gives a more notable niche to many teams as opposed to the Lati@s. Also, it's a pokemon with virtually very few counters, and with many offensive options, which include Fire Blast, Focus Blast and Earth Powerr, moves that Lati@s don't have.

This what I suggest from the lower ranks.
Gourgeist-S has a notable niche, I will ask alexwolf or someone else to explain it, since they know it better than I do.
 

Poek

squadala
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Gourgeist-S niche is to spinblock excadrill, as well as being one of the faster, if not the fastest WoW user in the tier, its good speed allows it to burn Mega Hera, neutral natured base 100's, jolly pinsir before mega, lando-t, mega-scizor (who adapted the meta by running a lot of speed so it can outspeed rotom-w), bisharp, dragonite, gyarados, mamoswine, diggersby, excadrill itself, breloom... And his defensive typing allows it to check azumarill which is pretty big.

EDIT: nvm gengar and mew outspeed it.
 
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---> A-


I'll show you why he doesn't deserve the A rank:
  • The Dragon Dance user is outclassed by Charizard Mega X by some stats and by the typing
  • Loses easily its nice bulkyness with Rocks and status while Charizard X doesn't
  • Has 80 base speed , easily outspeedable
  • Really weak to ice (4x) also with Multiscale
  • Band Dragonite can create advantage to Statuppers
  • Has a lot of threats in the OU metagame

These are some of his flaws , and these flaws doesn't make him ideal for A rank.
 
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---> A-


I'll show you why he doesn't deserve the A rank:
  • The Dragon Dance user is outclassed by Charizard Mega X by some stats and by the typing
  • Loses easily its nice bulkyness with Rocks and status while Charizard X doesn't
  • Has 80 base speed , easily outspeedable
  • Really weak to ice (4x) also with Multiscale
  • Band Dragonite can create advantage to Statuppers
  • Has a lot of threats

These are some of his flaws , and these flaws doesn't make him ideal for A rank.
While most of your bullets are more or less correct, there some that aren't 100% accurate
  • It has low base speed, but it's also the only Dragon Dancer with Extreme speed, which helps deal with the low base speed and makes it harder to revenge kill
  • ANYTHING with a choice item can become set-up bait (that is what you meant by "Statuppers", right?). That's the trade-off of a choice item
  • Everything has threats to it, it's pretty meaningless to just say something has "a lot" of threats.
More importantly, Dragonite has dealt with these issues since the pre-Aegislash ban, and since then has benefited from not being forced to run coverage to hit Aegislash and Mawile. Unless there's been a noticeable increase in the usage of Mons that tear apart Dragonite, there's really no reason to move him from his spot. I've been out of the game way to long to say whether it should move or not, but this late into the game just listing a Mon's inherent flaws isn't enough to convince people that it should move.
 

Aragorn the King

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I think that the ranking needs a few changes after I see the stats (I used the 1695 ones, not the zero):
Remember, usage ≠ viability. Any arguments regarding this is only used x amount of times, therefore this is unusable, aren't valid.
Mantine should be off of the list: Mantine is listed 208 in the usage statistics (which is pretty low) which indeicates that mantine is not OU viable. It may have a niche of bulky water with Defog, but the lack of good offensive presence, the not-so good typing (compared to Skarmory), the big competition from many pokemon for the slot, and a lack of recovery means that Mantine should be off of the list.
Not a good argument. Its usage doesn't matter when considering its viability. What does matter is the usage of mons that it checks and counters, and right now, Keldeo, Charizard-Y, and Landorus are all popular. Mantine is able to check three terrifying wallbreakers while providing a water (Scald) immunity and Defog, so I think ranking it D is good.
Gourgeist-Small should be off of the list: When have you seen a Gourgeist-Small on the ladder? Probably never. Also, I don't see the niche because his only good physical Ghost STAB has 40 BP (Shadow Sneak) and Grass typing hasn't the most neutral coverage.
Again, usage ≠ viability. Gourgeist is used primarily to check Excadrill, but also Diggersby. When's the last time you've seen Diggersby? Exactly. Gourgeist is able to SubSeed, burn physical attackers, check physical attackers, and less importantly, spinblock. Also, Shadow Sneak isn't his best ghost STAB, Phantom Force is. Phantom Force acts as a psuedo-Protect, which allows it to gain extra Leech Seed recovery and Drain its opponent's health extra. Also, Phantom Force isn't even mandatory; Protect is a viable option that trade an offensive presence for less reliance on its only okay speed.
Granbull should be off of the list: Granbull has bad special bulk and horrible speed for his bulk. Not only that, but is outclassed by Cleable in many roles except y Intimidate and that attacks physically.
Yes, it is outclassed in many roles, but certainly not all, which is why it is D. Thanks to the much superior physical bulk given by Intimidate, it's able to reliably beat Medicham, something Clefable can't do. It also beats defensive Heatran, which is really important for a defensive Fairy.
Tornadus should drop to D: The only niche is providing rain team of a manual Rain Dance setter. Everything else is better done y Thundurus-I (Prankster roles) or Tornadus-T (attacking, supporting) which are superior in general.
I'm not even sure why it's ranked tbh, but I definitely agree that D > C-.
Magenton should drop to C-: The reason is absically that his evolution, Magnezone, outclass it. Specially if Magneton has to run a Scarf (which means no Eviolite).
Magneton's niche is that it perform's Magnezone's scarf set almost identically, with the one exception being that it outspeeds Greninja and Talonflame. The lack of an eviolite isn't really relevant imo, since it doesn't even want one to perform its niche.
Roserade should be ranked to D: In general, is outclassed hard by Ammonguss and specially Mega Venusaur. I think that Roserade has a legitimate uses that combined could make Roserade OU viable:
Spikes + Sleep Powder (In gen VI, the combo is legal) added with Technician Hidden Power.

The only niche is in heavy offensive team that can't afford to have a Amoonguss and that they already have a Mega as the key part of the team but they want a Grass/Poison if they're available.
I'm not opposed to this, because Spikes have slowly become relevant, and Roserade is able to reliably set them against any team lacking heatran. Grass/Poison/Fire coverage is great and Spikes + Sleep Powder is great, the problem is it can't run all in one set. I still think its great power + ability to cripple counters + set spikes makes it as good as granbull/mantine.
Meloetta should rise to C-: Not a great pokemon, but an annoying one to face.
Why rank it? Because it's a very unpredictable pokemon, (has 4 sets in Aria frome and this thing can change forme with Relic Song (and typing), is one of the better AV users in OU and with her trolly type (Normal/Psychic) that causes her to be inmune to Ghost attacks.


And there's a curiosity when using this pokemon: I'm not surprised if many people (even in the mid-high ladder) see an Hyper Voice and try to switch into one of his Fire types and Poison types to take the attack, think that they are actually very good, only to take massive damage from it.
I agree. Its assault vest set is a great switch in to gengar, who is becoming much much better. Then there's the Relic Song set, which is really interesting. The Relic Song set is much more niche, but can catch teams off guard. It struggles against Talonflame + Pinsir, but otherwise the metagame isn't too hostile to it.
Metagross should rise to C-: After the Aegislash and Mawile ban, the number of viable Ghost and Dark has been reduced. Also, there's two steel less in the tier to handle. This means that metagross could have a niche on the meta. It may be not the greatest, but has two possible sets that take my attention: An Assault Vest set that is relatively interesting, as a possible lead set where the Pokemon can set up rocks and attack. Note that metagross is not fucked by Magnezone unless it's choiced (Earthquake and aility to tank one Thunderbolt) specially with Choice Scarf.
Its assault vest set is interesting, the only problem is competition with Jirachi. However, I think better bulk + power + ability to ohko heatran make it worth at least D. It also, like you say, isn't screwed over by zone like other steels. Not really concerned where it goes.
 
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While most of your bullets are more or less correct, there some that aren't 100% accurate
  • It has low base speed, but it's also the only Dragon Dancer with Extreme speed, which helps deal with the low base speed and makes it harder to revenge kill
  • ANYTHING with a choice item can become set-up bait (that is what you meant by "Statuppers", right?). That's the trade-off of a choice item
  • Everything has threats to it, it's pretty meaningless to just say something has "a lot" of threats.
More importantly, Dragonite has dealt with these issues since the pre-Aegislash ban, and since then has benefited from not being forced to run coverage to hit Aegislash and Mawile. Unless there's been a noticeable increase in the usage of Mons that tear apart Dragonite, there's really no reason to move him from his spot. I've been out of the game way to long to say whether it should move or not, but this late into the game just listing a Mon's inherent flaws isn't enough to convince people that it should move.
Yes , everything has threats to it , but he has more threats than the other A ranked pokemons and it's easy to KO him. Also it's really hard to keep him in a good team.
 
Yes , everything has threats to it , but he has more threats than the other A ranked pokemons and it's easy to KO him. Also it's really hard to keep him in a good team.
You've failed to sufficiently explain any of your points my friend. You can't just something had more threats than the other a ranked Pokemon. Also, wtf does "it's hard to keep him in a good team" even mean?
 
You've failed to sufficiently explain any of your points my friend. You can't just something had more threats than the other a ranked Pokemon. Also, wtf does "it's hard to keep him in a good team" even mean?
It means that he has a hard time fitting into teams in the current metagame - in other words, on the "Slap on any team|-----|Incredibly Niche" scale, he's moving more to the niche side. He's still a good mon, tho.
 
Yes , everything has threats to it , but he has more threats than the other A ranked pokemons and it's easy to KO him. Also it's really hard to keep him in a good team.
Not really. Dragonite doesn't have a ton of issues with Landorus-I, Keldeo (barring the rare Icy Wind), Heatran and Char-Y. Those are 4 prominent threats that DNite has very few, if any, issues with. If you carry Fire Punch over Earthquake (some people do this) Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor aren't really issues either. Not to mention the value Extremespeed presents allowing you to clean against weakened teams.
 
You've failed to sufficiently explain any of your points my friend. You can't just something had more threats than the other a ranked Pokemon. Also, wtf does "it's hard to keep him in a good team" even mean?
It means that he doesn't do enough synergy with high ranked pokemons in OU.
 
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It means that he doesn't do enough synergy with high ranked pokemons in OU.
Dragonite? If we are talking about defensive synergy given by Dragonite, aka its Bulky Roost set, then there is plenty of defensive synergy available. If we are talking offensive synergy, Dragonite can give off good offensive synergy when paired with the right teammates, and does not lack synergy issues whatsoever.

EDIT:

Mantine saw usage since it can respond to monsters like Keldeo, Landorus, and YZard while Defogging in their faces. Since no other Pokemon can respond to such dangerous threats all at once, I can still see it having a rank.


Supposedly Mantine has Defog and Gyarados doesn't, but that is still really really niche.
 
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silver97

GUNDELEROS WE DO THE PATTO DI SANGUE
I think that the ranking needs a few changes after I see the stats (I used the 1695 ones, not the zero):

I'm starting centering in the lower ranks.

Magenton should drop to C-: The reason is absically that his evolution, Magnezone, outclass it. Specially if Magneton has to run a Scarf (which means no Eviolite.
actually in the current meta magnezone's role is mainly knocking out its teammates' counters, providing a good check to birdspam and revenge killing everything slower than base 115. To do this it needs the scarf, so magneton is overall better in this role because of the increased speed that allows it to outspeed even greninja and jolly talonflame; of course it loses a lot of bulk and a little bit of power, but it does the job better than magnezone
 

Jukain

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I completely disagree with ranking Metagross like some people have brought up. It's pretty much just an inferior Jirachi. Jirachi's SR + U-turn set is a far better offensive support and checks all the same Pokemon, like Gardevoir and Latis, that Metagross is supposed to check. And the key part is, it doesn't need AV to check these mons, and thus has an actual form of recovery in Leftovers recovery which can keep it healthy pretty decently, as well as the ability to run Stealth Rock and support the team. The pluses I guess are Pursuit and the ability to kill Heatran but I honestly don't think these things are enough, not even close, to make Metagross worth using over an extremely good Pokemon in Jirachi.

Magneton is being very overrated. Most of the time, Magnezone's main role for my team is not Steel trapping. Because face it, it isn't trapping SS Skarm really so the only thing it's trapping is Ferrothorn, and that's not enough reason to use it on a team. Magnezone has awesome defensive capabilities for a team, including checking birds, checking Latis, and in general this thing can tank at least a hit from a bunch of things, like Greninja, Thundurus besides Focus Blast, Azumarill, Bisharp's Sucker Punch, you get the point. Magnezone has good 70/115/90 defenses to make this happen, but Magneton is frail with 50/95/70 defenses. It's weaker, too. The only real plus of it is outspeeding Greninja and a handful of uncommon Pokemon above Thundurus's Speed. But these don't make it good. The person who posted about this used the wrong reasons, but I wholeheartedly support dropping it down a rank or so.

Mantine is bad. Nog was originally a huge proponent of it, but when we were dealing with the analysis, we both decided it wasn't worth giving an analysis at that point. And there's a reason for that. Mantine is so passive it hurts and has no reliable recovery. It deals with a few mons (Keldeo, Landorus primarily) but there's a Pokemon called Gyarados that does this too. It can Defog, but this is not enough of a niche to give a Pokemon a rank when there are much, much better defensive Water-type options, and using Mantine is wasting your bulky Water slot.
 
I think that the ranking needs a few changes after I see the stats (I used the 1695 ones, not the zero):

I'm starting centering in the lower ranks.

Mantine should be off of the list: Mantine is listed 208 in the usage statistics (which is pretty low) which indeicates that mantine is not OU viable. It may have a niche of bulky water with Defog, but the lack of good offensive presence, the not-so good typing (compared to Skarmory), the big competition from many pokemon for the slot, and a lack of recovery means that Mantine should be off of the list.

Gourgeist-Small should be off of the list: When have you seen a Gourgeist-Small on the ladder? Probably never. Also, I don't see the niche because his only good physical Ghost STAB has 40 BP (Shadow Sneak) and Grass typing hasn't the most neutral coverage.

Granbull should be off of the list: Granbull has bad special bulk and horrible speed for his bulk. Not only that, but is outclassed by Cleable in many roles except y Intimidate and that attacks physically.

Magenton should drop to C-: The reason is absically that his evolution, Magnezone, outclass it. Specially if Magneton has to run a Scarf (which means no Eviolite).
Mantine I actually agree with, I never understood why it was ranked in the first place. Supposedly it has some niche of walling Charizard Y, Keldeo, and Landorus, while Defogging...it reminds me of Donphan, who is outclassed by Hippowdon as a bulky ground type, and by Excadrill as an offensive ground type spinner. But technically nothing outclassed Donphan, because it was a bulky ground type spinner. Didn't save it from being unranked though. Mantine is the same way; outclassed by, like, everything with recovery and/or no rocks weakness as a hazard clearer, and by certain pokemon, specifically Gyarados, as a wall. But, unlike Donphan, it feels like it still is outclassed even at combining both roles. Pokemon like bulky Latias and even Salamence can switch into Landorus, Keldeo, and Charizard Y, while Defogging, and having actual offense and recovery.

Gourgeist isn't used for its offenses, it's used to annoy the hell out of stuff. Leech Seed, Substitute, and Will-O-Wisp, is a really annoying combination if it gets any free turn. And there's enough stuff that it can wall that it can get a free turn. Especially if it burns them first. Examples like Excadrill (has another niche of spinblocking it), Diggersby, Gyarados, Tyranitar, Mega Heracross, Mega Scizor, and really a lot more slow-ish physical attackers I don't feel like listing can get outsped and burned.

Granbull's niche is that it is the only physically bulky Fairy type. It has roughly the same physical bulk as Landorus-T, and with its typing allows it to switch into some hard-to-counter threats like Mega Medicham and Mega Heracross. It hits decently hard for a wall, and Earthquake as coverage is actually pretty good for a Fairy type, and has a few support moves (Heal Bell and Thunder Wave mainly) so it's not dead weight if it runs into a team with nothing it specializes in countering.

Magneton arguably outclasses Magnezone at its scarf set (mainly depends on how much you use Magnezone's bulk), simply because it's faster. It hits only ~5% weaker, while gaining ~9% speed, that's better than giving up a Modest nature for a Timid one (which you might notice, scarf Magnezone already does this). The speed lets it outspeed base 115 through base 129 pokemon, like Starmie, Greninja, Jolly Talonflame, Tornadus-T, Weavile, and then a few less common pokemon. Though Magneton has terrible bulk in comparison to Magnezone, taking about 40% more damage from attacks, so it has a harder time switching into anything.
 
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