Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[trc]

bloo and mcmeghan make some very interesting nominations which i don't think anyone really contests, they are very indicative of the recent going-ons in smogon tour and even the ladder because of the whole ladder tour, and they're pretty interesting but yeah, i'm pretty sure most of us agree on them. i'm not going to reiterate everything they've said because they've written two great posts that explain them. i'm just giving you guys my stance and the stance that will be represented in my vote.

i brought up crawdaunt internally a few days ago, it's a pretty obvious decision based on matches i've shown and its popularity in smogon tour and other high level settings. mega manectric is also pretty popular in the tournament scene due to its great matchup against the common offensive pokemon being used + intimidate, and i agree with the notion that raikou should be only one rank below it. mega scizor is out of the bag, offensive bug bite superpower is an amazing set which can be seen in like any of cbb's replays and i think bloo used it for the ladder tour and it's honestly a tremendous set, the extra coverage and power is much more helpful than the bulk + roost imo. i talked about mew to a+ a while ago and nothing has really changed there. doublade has become practically mandatory on stalls and it walls almost everything that stall can't hope to cover so a raise is great. i've seen ben's empoleon stall, i've loved empoleon since ages ago and used defensive and specs for about a month cool pokemon that i'd support rising. i've posted on mega gyara dropping at one point, completely agree re: ttar after reading cbb's humongous posts and having nothing changed since he made it, zam always looked out of place in a-. i'm leaning towards drop on terrakion and gyarados, and definitely think skarmory should drop, though b- may be bit too much imo. i'm iffy on gardevoir but i think it's on the same level as heracross.

as for the "other considerations", i firmly believe that latios is the best pokemon the current xy metagame, and the s rank is definitely a deserving place for it to be. its so ridiculously easy to fit on a team since it covers so many holes while being ridiculously offensively potent and having huge utility in defog plus great coverage and reliable recovery. s rank for sure. greninja is also imo the closest pokemon to being broken, fundamentally anti-offense with the spikes set being realised to be a very viable alternative, and one i've used a lot. another s rank imo. finally, i agree on azumarill for a+ rank, it just isn't "dominant" in the metagame like any of the other s rank pokemon. not sure on thund, but leaning s still.

other thoughts: oma should rise, amph should drop, scoli should drop, quag should drop, aero should drop, weavile should rise one rank.

 

[Celticpride]

TRC I think Mega Aero is fine where it is. It's more offensive sets (3 Attacks+Roost, 3 Attacks+Hone Claws, 3 Attacks and Taunt, Roost+Hone Claws) all preform really well against offensive teams. I think it has a lot of value to offensive teams by checking both Zard Megas, Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and Scarf Lando-T (as long as it's not locked onto Stone Edge). It also doubles as a great revenge killer, taking on Talon, Greninja, Keldeo, Dragonite, Scarf Magnezone and Gengar. It also puts in work against Heatran and Venu with the right moves. It can't run everything at once, but it's got two really good STABs for the current meta (Rock and Flying) and a lot of strong coverage move options (most notable Fire Fang, Crunch, Earthquake and Ice Fang). Any three move combination of those really screws with a lot of the current meta. The stallbreaking set is actually deadly in the right hands and with the right partner. I'm sure someone could illustrate this better, but Taunt+Roost+2 Attacks really is a pain in the ass for stall. It even beats Chansey without SE coverage because it just Taunts, Roosts and chips away at Chansey's HP over and over until it is dead. Gliscor is forced out by it, Skarm is forced out by it, Amoongus and Mega Venu don't stand much of a chance either. Quag is basically the only full stop to it 100% of the time on stall (there are other stops, but they can also get smacked by another move). The stall breaker set also retains usefulness against offensive teams, though not to the same degree the 3 attack sets do. Mega Aero should stay in A-

I wouldn't be a huge fan of Mega Amphy dropping either, it plays really well in the current meta. Greninja and RushDrill are really the biggest pains out there for it. Bulky Amphy is also a great bulky, Volt Switcher. Agility Amphy really doesn't care about Pinsir, Mangezone, Talonflame, or either of the Lati twins once it's set-up, that's pretty huge in a meta crawling with PinsirMag and BirdSpam. It's also not too hard to set-up with its decent bulk and great typing. It's not without its flaws, but I honestly think it's closer to B Rank than C+, and is fine in B-

Also, I've mentioned this before, Latias should stay with Latios wherever he goes. Latias is the one you want to use if you are using a Lati for checking things instead of offense. Bulky Latias stands a better chance against Keldeo, Char-Y, Thundy-I and Lando-I than her brother. Also, Healing Wish support is freaking unbelievable, especially if you are using any Mega wallbreaker or DDer. Not many stall teams can handle Mega Medicjam or Mega Hera twice, and not many teams in general can handle Char-X or Mega Tyranitar twice. If Latios goes to S, so should Latias

 

[Jacks0n]

I have a few nominations which I really feel should happen.

-> A+
Bisharp is a monster in this meta. Great stabs and power, as well as powerful priority means it is a menace to all team archetypes. People are spamming psychics and bisharp just takes advantage of that. Jolly sd is great, with a sd up its sleeve it ravages through offence and is great v defensive teams as well, pursuit is also a good set and even bulky leftovers sd is good. Its such a great mon that threatens teams even from preview, and with its best offensive checks being either badly crippled form a knock off or KO'd by one of its stabs means that no team is ever really safe. Its a pokemon that thrives in this meta with the psychic spam, as well as the lack of resists to its stabs packed onto teams.

-> A+
Just like bisharp, this pokemon is thriving with all the psychic spam going on. It literally has 0 counters in xy ou, it is ridiculous. With great sets ranging form LO dual stabs taunt/sub painsplit, to LO 3 attacks sub or taunt, to sash counter ect. This mon just threatens huge, huge portions of the meta with its stab and coveredge making it a solid option for A+.

-> S
Latios is better than Latias in the xy meta. The extra power is just too good to pass up. With reliable recovery, great stabs and good coverage options it threatens all team archetypes. 'Counters' such as ferrothorn and heatran get bopped by hidden power fire and surf respectively as well as earthquale beating tran as well. Even withought threatening the whole meta with its stabs and coveredge it provides valuable team support with defog, and checks dangerous mons such as keldeo, zard y and landorus I.

-> Stays in A+
The problem with Latias is that it isn't nearly as threatening as its brother. Pokemon such as heracross can survive a psyshock from it, while they could never survive on from latios. Tyranitar and sp.def tran avoid the 2ohko from surf, and chansey doesn't always need to be above around 75% when switching in, like it does with latios. The meta is better suited to Latios's power, making it much more threatening, and while Latias is a great mon, and has better bulk than its brother, the extra power simply makes Latios better.

-> No lower than B+
Say what you want, skarm is still good in this meta. Yes it struggles with wallbreaking mons like hera and medicham, but the vast amount of physical attackers it beats 1 v 1 is insane, add on the fact it has good support options with defog and spikes, as well as it being to deal out huge damage to physical attackers with counter just makes it a good mon. It does require a lot of support to cover the mons it can't beat, but in almost every battle skarm will pull its weight, and defensively, it is just as good as something like a celebi or alomomola.

-> A+
The meta is shifting away from thundurus's favour. Set-up sweepers relying on speed are almost non-existant, most of the set-up sweepers in this meta rely on priority like diggersby, bisharp and pinsir. Mega man and scarf landorus therian also dominate and are found on many teams, forcing thundurus into a huge predicament in these match-ups. Its still a good mon, no doubt about that, with great versatility, power and coveredge, but the meta is no longer as hospitable to thundurus as it once was, and I think the rankings should reflect that.


Things I support:

-> S

-> A+

-> B+

-> A

-> A-

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

I have a few nominations which I really feel should happen.

View attachment 27518-> A+
Bisharp is a monster in this meta. Great stabs and power, as well as powerful priority means it is a menace to all team archetypes. People are spamming psychics and bisharp just takes advantage of that. Jolly sd is great, with a sd up its sleeve it ravages through offence and is great v defensive teams as well, pursuit is also a good set and even bulky leftovers sd is good. Its such a great mon that threatens teams even from preview, and with its best offensive checks being either badly crippled form a knock off or KO'd by one of its stabs means that no team is ever really safe. Its a pokemon that thrives in this meta with the psychic spam, as well as the lack of resists to its stabs packed onto teams.

View attachment 27519-> A+
Just like bisharp, this pokemon is thriving with all the psychic spam going on. It literally has 0 counters in xy ou, it is ridiculous. With great sets ranging form LO dual stabs taunt/sub painsplit, to LO 3 attacks sub or taunt, to sash counter ect. This mon just threatens huge, huge portions of the meta with its stab and coveredge making it a solid option for A+.

View attachment 27520-> S
Latios is better than Latias in the xy meta. The extra power is just too good to pass up. With reliable recovery, great stabs and good coverage options it threatens all team archetypes. 'Counters' such as ferrothorn and heatran get bopped by hidden power fire and surf respectively as well as earthquale beating tran as well. Even withought threatening the whole meta with its stabs and coveredge it provides valuable team support with defog, and checks dangerous mons such as keldeo, zard y and landorus I.
View attachment 27521-> Stays in A+
The problem with Latias is that it isn't nearly as threatening as its brother. Pokemon such as heracross can survive a psyshock form it, while they could never survive on from latios. Tyranitar and sp.def tran avoid the 2ohko from surf, and chansey doesn't always need to be above around 75% when switching in, like it does with latios. The meta is better suited to Latios's power, making it much more threatening, and while Latias is a great mon, and has better bulk than its brother, the extra power simply makes Latios better.

View attachment 27527-> No lower than B+
Say what you want, skarm is still good in this meta. Yes it struggles with wallbreaking mons like hera and medicham, but the vast amount of physical attackers it beats 1 v 1 is insane, add on the fact it has good support options with defog and spikes, as well as it being to deal out huge damage to physical attackers with counter just makes it a good mon. It does require a lot of support to cover the mons it can't beat, but in almost every battle skarm will pull its weight, and defensively, it is just as good as something like a celebi or alomomola.

View attachment 27528-> A+
The meta is shifting away from thundurus's favour. Set-up sweepers relying on speed are almost non-existant, most of the set-up sweepers in this meta rely on priority like diggersby, bisharp and pinsir. Mega man and scarf landorus therian also dominate and are found on many teams, forcing thundurus into a huge predicament in these match-ups. Its still a good mon, no doubt about that, with great versatility, power and coveredge, but the meta is no longer as hospitable to thundurus as it once was, and I think the rankings should reflect that.


Things I support:

View attachment 27522-> S

View attachment 27523-> A+

View attachment 27524-> B+

View attachment 27525-> A

View attachment 27526-> A-

eh, no.

First off, Bisharp is great, its main reason is pursuit trapping the Latis, A great counterpart for megas. It has a decent amount of sets, from LO to SD... but there really isn't much to offer after that. Honestly, with all those goddamn MSir and MHera teams, and even most Fighting types, I don't really think Bish would fit right now in A+.
Seriously, yesterday you guys were like "well bisharp shouldn't deserve a+" and now its like were rooting for a+?

Gengar has no counters. ok. ill be right back to check its sets.
Ya, there is no counters, you are correct. but, that does not make it an a+ mon on the bat, nonono. It has plenty of checks, from Psychics that outspeed it to things that outspeed it to destroy its amazing defenses (65/60/75 new meta) and even our boy Bisharp, who basically ko's with SP.
Yes, it handles Psychic pokemon well...

148 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 290-344 (73.6 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
69 SpA Slowbro Psychic vs. 28 HP / 80 SpD Gengar: 236-282 (88 - 105.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
69 Atk Mew Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 226-268 (84.3 - 100%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
148 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 104+ SpD Mew: 200-236 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

i mean, i don't wanna play the calc game but come on... it does not handle that shit very well... Zam outspeeds it and ko's... Thundurus I (Who is far from A+) Outspeeds and ko's with Psychic... also, Scarf Terrakion sure does not like Gengar switching into Close Combat, but Gengar...
252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 246-291 (91.7 - 108.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
damn that looked like it hurt. Gengar can't switch into a lot, and its only use is as a revenge killer to 2 typings.
also what psychic spam? you must be getting p unlucky battling all Psychic teams or something cause the only Psychic's I see on other teams are Slowbro, Mew, and Lati's.

So, were talking about how good Gengar and Bish are in the meta and you wanna nom Latios to S rank? people only use it to Defog, and maybe Draco meteor the pokemon in, but other than that, things like Scizor, Bisharp, TTar, etc. who are common on teams and are far from passive KO it on switch. even then, wtf is latios gonna do, pack HP fighting or something retarded like that?

I agree with Latias.

I agree with Skarm

NO WAY. Thundurus I is such a big threat to teams and even though it is getting decreased usage does not mean by any standards that it is shit. Prankster T-wave almost anything, and if non scarfed Lando T/I comes in you KO it with HP Ice. Thundy also appreciates a NP boost to sweep teams. seriously, Im trying out a Sub+NP set and you won't believe how badass it is. It has plenty of sets to fuck around with, and even though it suffers frail defenses, you shouldn't be staying into rock types with this thing. It basically does something 3 pokemon can do (Twave, sweeper, and backup) in one.

Things i support

Greninja: Stay at A+. Just because were talking about the Spikes set that was talked about months ago (although not a lot) does not mean it should go to S. It did the same thing that it did 4+ months ago. Nothing has changed.

other than that, I'm fine with the viability rankings.

 

[Albacore]

So, were talking about how good Gengar and Bish are in the meta and you wanna nom Latios to S rank? people only use it to Defog, and maybe Draco meteor the pokemon in, but other than that, things like Scizor, Bisharp, TTar, etc. who are common on teams and are far from passive KO it on switch. even then, wtf is latios gonna do, pack HP fighting or something retarded like that?

This really isn't true. While Latios's main reason for finding itself on so many teams is Defog, it still does a ton of other stuff and is an excellent all-round Pokemon regardless of Defog. It checks very dangerous threats such as Keldeo and Landorus-I, has an excellent speed tier enabling it to outspeed a large portion of the metagame, and its decent bulk is appreciated on a lot of offensive teams since it lets it check faster stuff like Thundurus, Mega-Manectric and Raikou which can otherwise kinda stomp all over offense.

Although TTar is a good answer to it, it's really quite easy to take advantage of with something like Sub MHera or Terrakion or Keldeo. Bisharp gets 2HKO'd by Draco Meteor so it has to win a 50/50 to trap Latios, and once again, any fighting type takes advantage of it. Scizor dies from HP Fire which I'm pretty safe in saying most Latios carry. Really, the only things that completely screw it can be completely screwed in return, so it's not like Latios's flaws are impossible or even hard to account for, I'd go so far to say you can just run a Fighting type and cover it up very well.

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

This really isn't true. While Latios's main reason for finding itself on so many teams is Defog, it still does a ton of other stuff and is an excellent all-round Pokemon regardless of Defog. It checks very dangerous threats such as Keldeo and Landorus-I, has an excellent speed tier enabling it to outspeed a large portion of the metagame, and its decent bulk is appreciated on a lot of offensive teams since it lets it check faster stuff like Thundurus, Mega-Manectric and Raikou which can otherwise kinda stomp all over offense.

Although TTar is a good answer to it, it's really quite easy to take advantage of with something like Sub MHera or Terrakion or Keldeo. Bisharp gets 2HKO'd by Draco Meteor so it has to win a 50/50 to trap Latios, and once again, any fighting type takes advantage of it. Scizor dies from HP Fire which I'm pretty safe in saying most Latios carry. Really, the only things that completely screw it can be completely screwed in return, so it's not like Latios's flaws are impossible or even hard to account for, I'd go so far to say you can just run a Fighting type and cover it up very well.

252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 408-482 (135 - 159.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 338-398 (111.9 - 131.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Bisharp Pursuit (switch out) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 338-398 (111.9 - 131.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
gosh, but Latios who is really important to your team gets Ko'ed by 3 of its moves!
Seriously, you don't need latios for anything but defog after the SR setter is gone. Although i do admire its sheer power and speed, it honestly does not like the meta, with Bisharp, TTar, Scizor, etc swarming like little bees.
Edit: HP Fire, Scizor is out. TTar still walls it, though. Bisharp again gets 2HKO'ed by Draco but Ko's with Knock off. I might think about Latios for S... idk.

Also, id like to talk about ttar, but Ill do that on a separate post.

 

[kabbes]

There's no way that Gyarados is a B-ranked mon of any flavour. It has flexibility, bulk (plenty of bulk, actually, if that's the way you want to go), sweeping potential, a great ability and can carry leftovers, which is so important if you are running subs (or bulk. For that matter). It's clearly A, whether that be A-, A or A+.

 

[QueenOfHax]

There's no way that Gyarados is a B-ranked mon of any flavour. It has flexibility, bulk (plenty of bulk, actually, if that's the way you want to go), sweeping potential, a great ability and can carry leftovers, which is so important if you are running subs (or bulk. For that matter). It's clearly A, whether that be A-, A or A+.

Kyurem-B possesses these traits and it's B+, just saying.

 

[Jacks0n]

eh, no.

First off, Bisharp is great, its main reason is pursuit trapping the Latis, A great counterpart for megas. It has a decent amount of sets, from LO to SD... but there really isn't much to offer after that. Honestly, with all those goddamn MSir and MHera teams, and even most Fighting types, I don't really think Bish would fit right now in A+.
Seriously, yesterday you guys were like "well bisharp shouldn't deserve a+" and now its like were rooting for a+?

Gengar has no counters. ok. ill be right back to check its sets.
Ya, there is no counters, you are correct. but, that does not make it an a+ mon on the bat, nonono. It has plenty of checks, from Psychics that outspeed it to things that outspeed it to destroy its amazing defenses (65/60/75 new meta) and even our boy Bisharp, who basically ko's with SP.
Yes, it handles Psychic pokemon well...

148 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 290-344 (73.6 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
69 SpA Slowbro Psychic vs. 28 HP / 80 SpD Gengar: 236-282 (88 - 105.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
69 Atk Mew Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 226-268 (84.3 - 100%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
148 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 104+ SpD Mew: 200-236 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

i mean, i don't wanna play the calc game but come on... it does not handle that shit very well... Zam outspeeds it and ko's... Thundurus I (Who is far from A+) Outspeeds and ko's with Psychic... also, Scarf Terrakion sure does not like Gengar switching into Close Combat, but Gengar...
252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 246-291 (91.7 - 108.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
damn that looked like it hurt. Gengar can't switch into a lot, and its only use is as a revenge killer to 2 typings.
also what psychic spam? you must be getting p unlucky battling all Psychic teams or something cause the only Psychic's I see on other teams are Slowbro, Mew, and Lati's.

So, were talking about how good Gengar and Bish are in the meta and you wanna nom Latios to S rank? people only use it to Defog, and maybe Draco meteor the pokemon in, but other than that, things like Scizor, Bisharp, TTar, etc. who are common on teams and are far from passive KO it on switch. even then, wtf is latios gonna do, pack HP fighting or something retarded like that?

I agree with Latias.

I agree with Skarm

NO WAY. Thundurus I is such a big threat to teams and even though it is getting decreased usage does not mean by any standards that it is shit. Prankster T-wave almost anything, and if non scarfed Lando T/I comes in you KO it with HP Ice. Thundy also appreciates a NP boost to sweep teams. seriously, Im trying out a Sub+NP set and you won't believe how badass it is. It has plenty of sets to fuck around with, and even though it suffers frail defenses, you shouldn't be staying into rock types with this thing. It basically does something 3 pokemon can do (Twave, sweeper, and backup) in one.

Things i support

Greninja: Stay at A+. Just because were talking about the Spikes set that was talked about months ago (although not a lot) does not mean it should go to S. It did the same thing that it did 4+ months ago. Nothing has changed.

other than that, I'm fine with the viability rankings.

lol gengar runs LO 252 s.attack, which KO's bro and does like 80 to mew, and don't be like it doesn't deserve A+ because of scarf terrakion, that is the most stupid thing i've ever heard. It takes a huge ton from shadow ball and gengar can simply switch out.

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

Kyurem-B possesses these traits and it's B+, just saying.

no, not at all
Cube may look good on paper, but its not on the field... lol.
It has the most crippling move pool...
It has gashing weaknesses
It has like 2 viable sets
nice 95 speed
TBH, it won't survive a Close Combat.

lol gengar runs LO 252 s.attack, which KO's bro and does like 80 to mew, and don't be like it doesn't deserve A+ because of scarf terrakion, that is the most stupid thing i've ever heard. It takes a huge ton from shadow ball and gengar can simply switch out.

See, the thing with Gar is that it doesn't do much more than Fairy's and Psychics. And as i said what Psychic spam? You mean the Slowbro, Lati twins and Mew? Thats not spam and usually there is only one on every team.
Although it has a decent niche of doing that, everything that outspeeds it (there is a fucking shitload that outspeed Gar) usually kills it. 90% of scarfers attack and ko it. It has more checks than your mom does and lets face it, Gar isn't going anywhere with that bulk.

 

[Alfalfa]

This really isn't true. While Latios's main reason for finding itself on so many teams is Defog, it still does a ton of other stuff and is an excellent all-round Pokemon regardless of Defog. It checks very dangerous threats such as Keldeo and Landorus-I, has an excellent speed tier enabling it to outspeed a large portion of the metagame, and its decent bulk is appreciated on a lot of offensive teams since it lets it check faster stuff like Thundurus, Mega-Manectric and Raikou which can otherwise kinda stomp all over offense.

Although TTar is a good answer to it, it's really quite easy to take advantage of with something like Sub MHera or Terrakion or Keldeo. Bisharp gets 2HKO'd by Draco Meteor so it has to win a 50/50 to trap Latios, and once again, any fighting type takes advantage of it. Scizor dies from HP Fire which I'm pretty safe in saying most Latios carry. Really, the only things that completely screw it can be completely screwed in return, so it's not like Latios's flaws are impossible or even hard to account for, I'd go so far to say you can just run a Fighting type and cover it up very well.

In order for Latios to properly check Keldeo (it takes too much Lando-I's Knock Off and is therefore not a reliable check) it needs Recover / Roost rather than Defog. Otherwise, it will get worn down really fast. I feel like nobody is making note of that.

 

[Niftyyyy]

I think Mega Gyarados should stay in A. This Mon has amazing versatility. I've been running a bulky Rest/Sleep Talk/Dragon Tail/Waterfall set for semi-stall and the amount of resistances it provides my team could not possibly be replaced by anything else.

The ability to change typing allows it to be tailored to check/counter Keldeo, Charizard Y/Charizard X, Bisharp, Crawdaunt, Landorus I, Conkeldur, Talonflame, Gliscor, Tyranitar, Rotom W, excadrill, greninja, Heatran and more. It can also come in on dragonite and garchomp, intimidate them, use dragon tail and force them to take more hazards damage in desperate scenarios where they try to set up.

That is a very impressive list if you ask me. Its ability to change typings let's it choose what it wants to check or counter. It has great bulk, stab, set up moves and unique typing to add to all of that.

Mega Gyarados to stay in A. I agree with everything else said mostly except I think Skarmory should stay in A-

This pokemon has a very blessed typing bar magnezone. It is resistant to spikes and toxic spikes and neutral to SR (awesome for a defogger). Titanic defenses, lots of resists, excellent utility moves, reliable recovery. It can put huge offensive pressure on physical attackers with counter so it isn't too passive. Defensive teams are still very viable IMO, and skarm is definitely still one of the top picks for defensive teams due to the utility it provides.

When you pick skarm, you are picking hazard control with more durability than anything else really besides maybe Mew.

 

[Celticpride]

Kyurem-B possesses these traits and it's B+, just saying.

Kyu-B has crap defensive typing and a terrible movepools. Gyara has great defensive typing and doesn't have to go mixed to beat things. Gyara also gets DD.

In order for Latios to properly check Keldeo (it takes too much Lando-I's Knock Off and is therefore not a reliable check) it needs Recover / Roost rather than Defog. Otherwise, it will get worn down really fast. I feel like nobody is making note of that.

I agree with this. If Latios is running 3 attacks+Defog w/LO, it gets worn down insanely quick. Rocks and LO can easily take off 30% HP during a match, making it easier to take down. If we are using the worn down quickly argument for potentially dropping AV Azu, we have to realize Latios has similar issues unless it drops coverage moves like Surf, Thunderbolt, Earthquake and PK Fire, making it much easier to handle.

 

[Alfalfa]

I have a few nominations which I really feel should happen.

View attachment 27518-> A+
Bisharp is a monster in this meta. Great stabs and power, as well as powerful priority means it is a menace to all team archetypes. People are spamming psychics and bisharp just takes advantage of that. Jolly sd is great, with a sd up its sleeve it ravages through offence and is great v defensive teams as well, pursuit is also a good set and even bulky leftovers sd is good. Its such a great mon that threatens teams even from preview, and with its best offensive checks being either badly crippled form a knock off or KO'd by one of its stabs means that no team is ever really safe. Its a pokemon that thrives in this meta with the psychic spam, as well as the lack of resists to its stabs packed onto teams.

View attachment 27519-> A+
Just like bisharp, this pokemon is thriving with all the psychic spam going on. It literally has 0 counters in xy ou, it is ridiculous. With great sets ranging form LO dual stabs taunt/sub painsplit, to LO 3 attacks sub or taunt, to sash counter ect. This mon just threatens huge, huge portions of the meta with its stab and coveredge making it a solid option for A+.

View attachment 27520-> S
Latios is better than Latias in the xy meta. The extra power is just too good to pass up. With reliable recovery, great stabs and good coverage options it threatens all team archetypes. 'Counters' such as ferrothorn and heatran get bopped by hidden power fire and surf respectively as well as earthquale beating tran as well. Even withought threatening the whole meta with its stabs and coveredge it provides valuable team support with defog, and checks dangerous mons such as keldeo, zard y and landorus I.
View attachment 27521-> Stays in A+
The problem with Latias is that it isn't nearly as threatening as its brother. Pokemon such as heracross can survive a psyshock form it, while they could never survive on from latios. Tyranitar and sp.def tran avoid the 2ohko from surf, and chansey doesn't always need to be above around 75% when switching in, like it does with latios. The meta is better suited to Latios's power, making it much more threatening, and while Latias is a great mon, and has better bulk than its brother, the extra power simply makes Latios better.

View attachment 27527-> No lower than B+
Say what you want, skarm is still good in this meta. Yes it struggles with wallbreaking mons like hera and medicham, but the vast amount of physical attackers it beats 1 v 1 is insane, add on the fact it has good support options with defog and spikes, as well as it being to deal out huge damage to physical attackers with counter just makes it a good mon. It does require a lot of support to cover the mons it can't beat, but in almost every battle skarm will pull its weight, and defensively, it is just as good as something like a celebi or alomomola.

View attachment 27528-> A+
The meta is shifting away from thundurus's favour. Set-up sweepers relying on speed are almost non-existant, most of the set-up sweepers in this meta rely on priority like diggersby, bisharp and pinsir. Mega man and scarf landorus therian also dominate and are found on many teams, forcing thundurus into a huge predicament in these match-ups. Its still a good mon, no doubt about that, with great versatility, power and coveredge, but the meta is no longer as hospitable to thundurus as it once was, and I think the rankings should reflect that.


Things I support:

View attachment 27522-> S

View attachment 27523-> A+

View attachment 27524-> B+

View attachment 27525-> A

View attachment 27526-> A-

I agree with discussing Gengar and Thundurus to A+, the metagame has adapted to Thundurus, and Gengar is so lethal, and the meta should reflect that. Also, Latios =/= Latias, Latias' access to Healing Wish is a huge boon for offensive teams. Latias is also able to beat Keldeo, as well as Zard Y, much more reliably, whereas Latios is 2HKOd by Zard Y's Fire Blast.

 

[AM]

yeah at this point Bisharp could use a raise. It's benefitting from all the offensive teams in the metagame because it can just use Sucker Punch on a lot of stuff with minor opportunity cost. It puts a lot of things in a bad situation cause of Defiant and as such its attack can't be lowered by things like M-Manectric or offensive variants of Lando-T without getting outright KOed or severely damage. Screws over a bunch of Psychic types barring things like stallbreaker Mew but Mew really doesn't want to be trying to take on Bisharp head on ever. Great synergy with a bunch of relevant threats in the tier and I can definitely see it as an A+ ranked mon.

As far as the whole Lati situation goes, I would probably be more inclined to see Latios in S alone and Latias in A+. My issue with Latias is that it although it has some more useful support moves in the form of things like Healing Wish, the difference in offensive presence can be a big deal in games. Latios simply manages more KOs regularly than Latias would and when Latias fails to break something offensively, it can be a huge problem either due to getting heavily damaged on the next turn or the opponent simply healing off damage. Latios I feel is just more consistent in the metagame as it's open to much more options while Latias is kind of pigeon holed into a certain role due to the nature of the meta and being outclassed in offense by Latios. Although Latios has less of a defensive presence than Latias, like the saying goes the best defense is a good offense and I believe Latios can provide that as an S rank threat.

 

[alexwolf]

Update time:

Greninja: A+ ---> S
Crawdaunt: C+ ---> B-
Raikou: B ---> B+
Mega Manectric: B+ ---> A-
Mega Scizor: A ---> A+
Mega Gyarados: A+ ---> A
Gyarados: A- ---> B+
Terrakion: A+ ---> A
Skarmory: A- ---> B+
Chansey: A- ---> B+
Doublade: C+ ---> B-
Mew: A ---> A+
Empoleon: C ---> C+
Amoonguss: A- ---> B+
Tangrowth: C ---> C+
Ditto: C+ ---> C
Omastar: B- ---> B
Magneton: C ---> C+
Toxicroak: C- ---> C
Wobbuffet: C ---> C+
Togekiss: C+ ---> B-
Gastrodon: C ---> C+
Jirachi: Stays in B+
Victini: Stays in B+
Weavile: Stays in B-
Mega Houndoom: Stays in C+
Venomoth: C- ---> D

And that's it for now. I don't have the time to explain the changes and most of them received huge support anyway, judging by the likes in Bloo's and McMeghan's posts, and i have already discussed them with TRC and ben gay, so i don't think there will be any problem.

Important changes to discuss:

Azumarill: S ---> A+
Thundurus: S ---> A+
Latios: A+ ---> S
Tyranitar: A ---> A-
Mega Gardevoir: A ---> A+
Mega Alakazam: A- ---> B+
Mega Aerodactyl: A- ---> B+
Quagsire: B ---> B-

And a few not so important ones:

Cofagrigus: Unranked ---> D
Cobalion: Unranked ---> D
Mega Abomasnow: Unranked ---> D
Meloetta: Unranked ---> D
Metagross: Unranked ---> D

The last 5 nominations were made by ben gay, and i want to see some opinions about them. Oh and feel free to talk more about Weavile, Jirachi, Mega Houndoom, and Victini, their placement isn't final, i just let them stay where they are atm because of lack of evidence and support that suggests otherwise.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

IMO Cofagrigus has plenty of niche on trick room teams to warrant usage. Its an excellent setter with its bulk and a good sweeper. Honestly I thought it was already D. Ghost stab still amazing this gen. Wisp can cripple things or you can go more sweeper with hp fighting.

 

[Anduril]

I think that Thundurus should stay S. Priority Twave is incredibly good and can save a team from being swept. It's a good back up option on teams that don't need Nasty Plot or just lack in speed. It has the ability to go mixed with Knock Off and Superpower which is often overlooked. While the metagame hasn't been too friendly to it as of late, I still believe Thundurus truly is an S ranked mon. If Greninja is S, so should Thundurus

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I like all of those changes, I agree with almost every one of them so I have no qualms.

I felt like nominating Metagross for at least D Rank a while ago but I was kind of hesitant. With Aegislash and Mega Mawile gone, Metagross has a niche again imo. Its Assault Vest set is kind of decent right now, as it has a nice defensive typing and has plenty of resistances so it makes a decent tank, not Goodra/Conkeldurr level but still okayish. It packs a decent punch with things like Meteor Mash and Zen Headbutt and the like among a good physical movepool. If you want, Metagross has Pursuit too which is neat to trap Latios, which imo is currently the best mon in the tier. I also tried a mixed wallbreaker set primarily on my joke pseudo-legendary team and it didn't do terribly, it hits pretty hard and has decent coverage to boot, with Grass Knot to hit Hippowdon and friends hard and the like and it makes an okay wallbreaker. I also tried AgiliGross and it was alright too, it's not a bad sweeper at all and it has the bulk and power to do well with.

It still has problems, like its Knock Off weakness, slow Speed, and being somewhat easy to wall thanks to its slightly lacking coverage, but I think with Metagross's bulk, power, and typing it is good enough for D Rank at the very least, along with its fellow Hoenn pseudo-legendary Salamence.

Cofagrigus would be good enough for D Rank, seeing as how it is plenty viable as a solo Trick Room setter and is a fine Trick Room sweeper overall. Mummy is also a clutch ability to neutralize things such as Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and Azumarill which is awesome. With Shadow Ball and either Will-O-Wisp or HP Fighting it does quite a bit of work. And most of all, it does take on quite a few threats well, such as Mega Heracross, Mega Medicham, Terrakion, Mega Scizor, etc. It's at least D Rank imo, maybe C- but that's probably pushing it lol. It's an okay bulky Ghost overall that is pretty proficient in the right circumstances.

Thundurus...well, I haven't had an easy time putting it on a team these days. My biggest problem with Thundurus though is that even though it's ridiculously powerful and Priority T-Wave is clutch, it's just so frail. I know Greninja is too, but Thundurus really suffers from being worn down by LO and Rocks, combined with its inability to take most powerful attacks in the tier. Priority is everywhere and Thundurus is also kind of easy to deal with by plenty of OU's top Pokemon, such as Latios, Scarf Lando-T, and Mega Manectric. I wouldn't mind if it stays S, though I'm kind of leaning towards A+. It's still a very good Pokemon, being a terrifying special attacker that can also keep sweepers in check with priority Thunder Wave, but I feel like the metagame has been a little more hostile to it as of late.

Latios is definitely S though. It is definitely the best offensive Defog user in OU, and is great on offensive teams that need hazard removal, being able to Defog and provide a strong punch at the same time. Beyond its Defogging ability, Latios also packs an incredible punch, with its powerful LO boosted Draco Meteors and Psyshocks from 130 Special Attack make it quite a strong special attacker. If you want, it has good coverage options too like Thunderbolt for Azumarill and the less common Togekiss, HP Fire for Ferro and Scizor, EQ, Surf, etc. Its typing and decent bulk are clutch too, so it can check threats such as Landorus-I, Keldeo, Electric-types, etc. This is in tandem with its fine Speed which is also great. It's all in all a fantastic meta defining Pokemon that checks a lot of Pokemon, provides Defog support, and packs a strong punch and fine coverage too. Definitely an S mon in my eyes.

Quag is kinda eh but whatever lol, Azumarill I wouldn't mind seeing in A+ seeing as how it's really just a good bulky Pokemon that packs a strong punch, Mega Gardevoir I definitely wouldn't mind seeing in A+, it's a really good breaker with fantastic coverage and is an overall monster, Tyranitar is kinda meh atm but idk, the rest I really don't have a right to say much about lol.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[Clone]

Yay Ninja is S rank!

Imma focus this post on TTar and Metagross, as these are the two I feel the most strongly about.

TTar: Honestly, I never would have thought that I'd be saying this, but I can see him dropping. Sand has been on the decline lately, as it is not nearly as meta defining as it was about a month or so ago. TTar spearheads this, as Hippo doesn't fit on Sand Offense (Sand balance is actually p legit tho). Anyways, TTar is good, but not great. IMO his best set currently is the Scarf set, which is really good for Pursuit trapping and the like. The problem is that Scarf is kinda one dimensional in that it only fits with a few team archetypes. I mean, I feel that the set itself is A material, but overall I don't see TTar as an A mon anymore. His defensive typing is terrible, and Scarf is the only set that can reliably check Birdspam anymore, because stall breaker Talon actually has a small shot of winning if TTar gets burned (emphasis on small), and Pinsir outright demolished him with Close Combat. Add in the surge of duble bunny and SD Spam, TTar isn't as well suited to take on this new meta. He'd be one of the best mons in the rank, but A- seems perfectly acceptable.

Metagross: I've been wanting to talk about this dude since the Aegis ban. He's honestly pretty decent. He has a pretty big niche in his AV set, as he can check the likes of Mega Pinsir, Lati@s, Azumarill, Thundurus, Keldeo (with Thunderpunch), Mega Venu, Mega Garde, Raikou / Mega Mane, Mega Scizor, and a lot of other mons I haven't mentioned. His typing has only improved, as his biggest checks in Aegis and Bisharp are either banned or not as prominent as before. I realize Bisharp has surged in usage once again, but Metagross pairs with Keldeo very well. Regardless, he's one of the few steel types that isn't fucked over by CM that carry a Flamethrower, as he can OHKO with meteor mash after a little prior damage (I may have to double check), while not being 2HKOed by it unboosted. He also has access to Bullet Punch, Stealth Rock, and Explosion, which gives him a small niche as a lead that almost guarantees Rocks bar Taunt.

I realize that Jirachi is better and that losing to Gengar sucks, but the meta has shifted in Metagrosses favor a bit and can see him in D.

 

[Destiny Device]

There are no "undisputed facts" on this thread. Even some "conclusion reached" Pokémon are being re-ranked. The metagame is always changing. Azumarill is by no means "the god of OU", come on. Before arguing in defense of an "undisputed fact", try to read what others posted. The same goes for Greninja.
Saying alexwolf was "on acid" when he updated the thread is not only disrespectful, but it also shows that you clearly didn't actually bother reading other people's arguments on the subject, which is why few people are taking your posts seriously. Taking into account only arguments that suit your views does not characterize a discussion.

 

[asterat]

Important changes to discuss:

Azumarill: S ---> A+
Thundurus: S ---> A+
Latios: A+ ---> S
Tyranitar: A ---> A-
Mega Gardevoir: A ---> A+
Mega Alakazam: A- ---> B+
Mega Aerodactyl: A- ---> B+
Quagsire: B ---> B-

Azumarill: Yeah I kind of support this one. Azumarill is really amazing mon in theory, but it can only run one set at a time and they all have pretty big shortcomings. Assault Vest is really not that good, most Greninjas run grass moves and Latios usually runs psyshock. This is heralded as the best Azumarill, I'm not exactly sure why. It is nice to have a bulky pivot, but the set sacrifices the power to break through bulky mons pretty quickly. No regenerator or whatever means Azumarill gets worn down really quick, it's not an assault vest mon I love. In addition, a lot of its resistances are more useful on the physical side (Gyarados, CharX.) TLDR Azumarill with AV is kind oh bleh because it's stopped by most bulky pokemon, it's easy to wear down, and lots of things can get around it (it's become a thing special attackers prepare for.) Choice Band is probably my personal favorite because it has the power to break defensive threats. However, it is stopped dead by Mega Venusaur or Amoonguss (both really common on stall) or Ferrothorn if you don't run superpower. Without the bulk from AV, special attackers can run over it pretty easily after a bit of prior damage. Personally, whenever I use Azumarill I use this as I find it to be threatening without being suicidal. However, hyper offense will dispatch of it quickly, and stall will have a counter, making its good matchups limited. Belly Drum is great for hyper offense, but all Azumarill can really do before drumming is play rough, which doesn't hit everything that well, and unboosted is kind of weak anyways. Drumming requires Azumarill to be in a pretty good scenario where it can kill the mon its facing with an aqua jet and survive an attack + drum 50%. If you try to use Azumarill's typing defensively, your Sitrus Berry will probably get burned, which makes set up near impossible. To me, Azumarill is not amazing because each set has a lot of flaws (I'm not addressing thick fat/sap sipper because that's practically a different mon) and you basically have to pick your poison. No matter what you choose, Azumarill will always have Venusaur as a hard counter, which makes it dead weight a portion of the time. It does have great typing and pretty solid stats, but it's slow and gets worn down quickly, and it's not powerufl enough without a CB or drum boost.

Thundurus: Thundurus has a simple issue: if it's LO it dies really fast (especially with sandstorm and/or stelath rock in play) and is quickly in range for priority. Without a life orb (leftovers) it has a lot more staying power, but a lot less destructive power. This is especially apparent in hidden power, which is pretty pathetic without a life orb at times. To illustrate how weak this is, take into account thunderbolt has less than a 20% chance to OHKO standard CB azumarill, and is not guaranteed after rocks! HP Flying is so weak that it doesn't always 2HKO physically defensive venusaur, only pulling through about a third of the time. HP ice cannot always OHKO timid landorus, and flat out fails to KO landorus-t (who does more back with stone edge.) So life orb is generally a better choice. Thundurus is known for his ability to paralyze fast sweepers, but once those sweepers have set up, he dies to accomplish this task unless parahax occurs. This is a trade only HO teams can really make, balance teams are going to be very disadvantaged after this. However, Thundurus does do his job usually, so he is undeniably a good offensive support. Now, let's assess his offensive capabilities. Thundurus cannot break a lot of pokemon in OU that are fairly common, even with the pretty essential life orb. His movepool is amazing (knock off, superpower, grass knot, focus blast) but his moves are limited, making him always have definitive counters. Without knock off, Latias with slight hp investment is a good switch in. Without grass knot, Quagsire, Gastrodon, and Hippowdon have a field day. Without HP flying, Venusaur and Amoonguss have an easy time (and even with it sort of.) Without focus blast, you're using the mon wrong as well- Ferrothorn, Excadrill, Tyranitar, etc. are important to stop. Superpower is not as good, but kind of works. If you want prankster support, you sort of need focus blast and thunderbolt (superpower kind of works as well.) So from HP ice, HP flying, and knock off only one move can be picked- and all have serious shortcomings. Mixed Thundurus is something else, but it's a mediocre wallbreaker that really only has speed as an advantage, which is pretty nice when facing Latis, Keldeo, etc. Thundurus has a lot of versatility, but it also has some serious flaws, so I think it should move down.

Latios: I think I back this one, but my opinion is not definite. My first thought here is how easy Latios is to use in teambuilding. I honestly build very few teams without him or Latias (the choice made on how well the rest of my team checks Keldeo primarily.) If you want hazard removal, your options are very limited right now. Excadrill has rapid spin, and good power, but the way the mon works isn't for everyone (or every team.) Zapdos and Skarmory (is Mandibuzz still relevant??) aren't very good right now, they don't do much outside of walling Pinsir and a few others. Skarmory gets grounds like Excadrill while Zapdos walls...Scizor? Honestly whatever rank Zap is in is too high. Anyways, the Lati twins are far and away the best option for hazard removal, which is excellent if you want to use stuf like Charizard, Talonflame, and Pinsir. Excadrill is close, but I honesty think he doesn't fit too well with Charizard-Y or Talonflame. Latios and Latias are many things defensively- they resist water, fire, fighting, grass, ground, electric, and psychic. They completely thrash non Knock Off Landorus and non Dragon Pulse Charizard-Y, and are the almost sole reason those things even exist. The speed tier is awesome for revenging Keldeo and Terrakion, and fast enough to quash a Mega Heracross or Medicham sweep. Forcing those mons to switch out makes defog easy and predicting switch ins is not difficult. Roost is also a good move on switches so Keldeo can't wear you down. Draco Meteor is strong and gets rid of most non fairy/steel things. Latios has a lot of coverage, and can bend his moveset to beat anything but Clefable and Chansey. Psyshock/Draco Meteor is the most common, but fails against steels. Personally, I love hidden power fighting, because it gets around the biggest threat to Latios: pursuit (KOes Bisharp, 2HKO Tyranitar.) Earthquake hits Heatran, Thunderbolt hits waters, HP fire hits ferrothorn. There are really so many options that allow Latios to be welded into any team. If you forgo Defog (don't need to, or Excadrill is present) or Roost (hyper offense go!) even more moves can be used, and three moves can form a pretty awesome trifecta of coverage. I like HP Fighting/Draco Meteor/Thunderbolt when I don't need defog and roost. In summary, Latios is good for revenge killing and the best hazard remover, fits into near every team. Latias is good as well, but less power so I think only Latios should move up (also then the entire S rank remains blue.)

will respond to to others later.

 

[Jirachee]

Nice to see the recent changes! I'll comment on some of the potential moves:

Cobalion: D

Cobalion is honestly not that bad. Countering Bisharp is a pretty rare thing for a Steel and it just combines many important roles together that nothing else really can do. Stealth Rock + Volt Switch is interesting for offensive teams, especially with Cobalion's Speed. I'd like to see it ranked but I don't think it should be higher than D because it gets utterly steamrolled by Landorus-T.

Thundurus: A+

I'd like to say that part of what made Thundurus so good was its fantastic offensive capabilities which are still more or less the same but, Prankster Thunder Wave just isn't as good as it used to be. Back in the Aegislash metagame, Choice Scarf Pokemon weren't really good because Aegislash just shut them down with King's Shield. This made Speed boosting Pokemon, for example Mega Tyranitar, Mega Gyarados, and Mega Charizard X a lot more viable. Those 3 (along with Mawile) were pretty much the best Megas in OU and they were everywhere. With the removal of Aegislash and Mawile, Scarfers became infinitely more viable which made those a lot less viable. Thundurus's main role was to give offensive teams a way to play around those threats without having to use a Scarfer. Now, not only are the 3 DDers easier to handle, but the meta focuses a lot on slower Megas, for example Heracross or Gardevoir, and paralyzing them isn't really worth sacking a Pokemon. Obviously, Thundurus is still very useful, but I don't think Prankster Thunder Wave is useful often enough to warrant S rank. I think A+ would be good.

Quagsire: B-

Same logic, pretty much. Quagsire was a great way to handle boosting Pokemon, but now there are a lot more Pokemon whose sheer power is enough to break through Quagsire easily.

might add more later.

 

[Celticpride]

Interesting note on Mega Alakazam, with all the Mangezone use recently, Trace allows it to reverse trap Mangezone, and with Rain on the rise it can revenge Rain sweepers and wreak havoc on Rain teams after that. Get rid of Kabutops and watch it go. I think there is an argument for Mega Zam staying where it is in A-, but also an argument for it moving down. I would tread carefully if you haven't used it in practice.

Cobalion: D

Cobalion is honestly not that bad. Countering Bisharp is a pretty rare thing for a Steel and it just combines many important roles together that nothing else really can do. Stealth Rock + Volt Switch is interesting for offensive teams, especially with Cobalion's Speed. I'd like to see it ranked but I don't think it should be higher than D because it gets utterly steamrolled by Landorus-T.

I wanted to make this one a few weeks ago, but I felt like I would be laughed out of the thread. Cobalion has an interesting niche on VoltTurn teams, for a few reasons:

• Can take Toxic without losing momentum
• Volt Switcher that beats Chansey with Close Combat
  
• Provides SR
• Fast Taunt

 

[theV8man]

I don't think Azumarill should be going down from S rank. The only argument I've seen so far that makes it seem any less unviable is the fact that Greninja 2HKO's with Grass Knot. If anything, Latios and Greninja's rise in popularity should be boosting Azumarill's viability considering it checks/can somewhat counter both Pokemon excellently. AV Azumarill literally checks the entirety of the popular S rank sets. All of it. You put this thing on your team so you can switch it in on something dangerous and then hugely threaten the enemy team. Water/Fairy is an absolutely legendary typing that allows this. Just because Grass Knot Greninja is around doesn't mean Azumarill can't check it. I seriously cannot comprehend how Greninja can be S rank and this thing can't. You can slap Azumarill's Choice Band or Av set on any team and it doesn't need any support. Belly Drum Azumarill is being kinda underestimated, too, because although it needs some extra support it is one of the better late-game sweepers in the game. This Pokemon is just so excellent I can't remember the last time I made a team without it. In my opinion it is wrong to drop it before any of the other S rank threats. Like holy shit this thing is also checking all three of the wallbreaking megas and can beat Mega Char Y 1v1 it's so good. It's also great versus both weather playstyles. Like godammit I don't know any other way to say it this Pokemon is amazing. And that coverage, like damn. And it gets knock off (lolchansey), superpower, and can even KO Venusaur with Return after Belly Drum. I'm coming out of the closet people. I love azumarill. It's so beautiful. I was passionate about Crawdaunt moving up and I'm happy that it happened but this is even more important. THAT COVERAGE. THAT TYPING. THAT ATTACK. PRIORITY. If I had to choose to make a team with Azu or Greninja, I'd choose the bunny, and I know you would too. This is probably my tenth edit, but Azumarill is one of a kind. Trends come and go, but I can't see any reason in the near future that this beautiful, beautiful specimen gets downgraded.
EDIT: did i mention it's really good?