XY UU Viability Ranking Thread V2

[KM]

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credit to fluze for the awesome artwork
credit to limitless for the original thread =)
UU Viability Ranking Thread

Welcome to the UU Viability Thread! Unlike its predecessor, the method of sorting Pokemon by viability for this thread will be much quicker and will aim to provide a relatively accurate picture of each metagame as soon as possible. The preliminary rankings for each metagame (every three months, or any other important release) will be decided on by a handpicked group of people who have shown a deep and relevant understanding of the metagame and contributed to the last UU Viability thread. This currently consists of your truly, Bouffalant , Calloflochie , Meru , King UU and dingbat , although this is subject to change.

So where do you come in? Well, after the preliminary rankings have been worked out by us, it's the entire community's job to refine those rankings to more accurately reflect the true viability of all relevant Pokemon in the UU metagame. Because our guesses will come before much meaningful experience using Pokemon will have occured, we can't be accurate enough without your help. Post about the Pokemon that you're experienced using, but try not to let your personal bias oversell any Pokemon.

Another key change is in the definition and variety of ranks available. While the S and A tiers still mostly reflect the best of the best Pokemon in the metagame, the B tier is now slightly more expansive, with the B+ tier representing Pokemon that are fairly common and threatening, and the B- tier representing Pokemon who fill minor, but relevant niches. Below this B tier, we have a new generic C tier that displays all Pokemon that are usable in UU, but don't have a niche that is appreciated by most teams in UU. There will be no D-rank tier. The broad-based lower tier serves as a measure to counteract the extreme subjectivity that occurs historically when discussing Pokemon that people have very little experience using.

Ranking Definitions: credit to alexwolf for the base definitions
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are almost flawless in the UU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and almost always brings a high reward. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are more than made up for by numerous positive traits.

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the UU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively, and have only a few flaws that are compensated for by their positive traits.

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are good in the UU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. They can all still function very well given the right team support, but they have numerous flaws that minimize their impact on the tier.

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have small niches in the UU metagame, but have numerous notable flaws that prevent them from being effective the majority of the time. Pokemon in the C tier require extensive support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon, or their niches aren't all too useful for the current metagame.

Preliminary Viability Ranking:

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are almost flawless in the UU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and almost always brings a high reward. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are more than made up for by numerous positive traits.

Alakazam (Mega)

Hydreigon

Jirachi

Zygarde

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the UU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.

A+ Rank

Blastoise (Mega)

Crobat

Lucario

Machamp

Mienshao

Swampert

Suicune

A Rank

Aerodactyl (Mega)

Alakazam

Celebi

Chandelure

Entei

Froslass

Gligar

Haxorus

Infernape

Krookodile

Nidoqueen

Roserade

Sableye

Shaymin

Umbreon

Vaporeon

A- Rank

Absol (Mega)

Aggron (Mega)

Ampharos (Mega)

Azelf

Darmanitan

Empoleon

Nidoking

Raikou

Snorlax

Tentacruel

Whimsicott

Yanmega

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are good in the UU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. They can all still function very well given the right team support, but they have numerous flaws that minimize their impact on the tier.

B+ Rank

Abomasnow (Mega)

Alomomola

Arcanine

Aromatisse

Chesnaught

Cresselia

Cobalion

Donphan

Dugtrio

Florges

Hippowdon

Honchkrow

Noivern

Kyurem

Rotom-C

Rotom-H

Sharpedo

Starmie

Tornadus

Virizion

B Rank

Blissey

Fletchinder

Flygon

Forretress

Galvantula

Goodra

Granbull

Houndoom (Mega)

Jellicent

Meloetta

Metagross

Porygon-Z

Quagsire

Reuniclus

Rhyperior

Shuckle

Slowking

Toxicroak

B- Rank

Amoonguss

Cloyster

Diancie

Doublade

Escavalier

Feraligatr

Gastrodon

Heliolisk

Hitmonlee

Kingdra

Magneton

Stoutland

Togetic

Zoroark

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have small niches in the UU metagame, but have numerous notable flaws that prevent them from being effective the majority of the time. Pokemon in the C tier require extensive support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon, or their niches aren't all too useful for the current metagame.

Accelgor

Aerodactyl

Archeops

Banette (Mega)

Blastoise

Braviary

Cacturne

Cofagrigus

Delphox

Ditto

Drapion

Druddigon

Durant

Espeon

Exploud

Ferroseed

Golbat

Gorebyss

Jolteon

Kabutops

Milotic

Mismagius

Moltres

Omastar

Porygon2

Qwilfish

Scrafty

Shedinja

Sigilyph

Slurpuff

Tangrowth

Trevenant

Uxie

Vivillon

Weezing

Xatu

 

[KM]

Historical UU Viability Data​

 

[KM]

HISTORICAL SUMMARY OF CHANGES:

Metagame starting 9/2:

Original Shifts

Hide

SEPTEMBER DROPS

-> A+

-> S

-> A+

-> A

-> A+

-> A+

-> A

-> B+

-> A

-> A+

-> A-

-> A

-> A-

-> B+

-> A-

-> B+

-> B+

-> B+

-> B

-> B

-> B

-> C

-> B

-> B

-> B

-> B

-> B+

-> B

-> B-

-> B-

-> B

-> Death
(pretend this is Xatu) -> Death

-> B+

-> B+

-> A

-> S

-> B

-> B

Modifications:

Hide

-> B+

-> A-

-> B+
___________________________ VICTINI / TOGE / SMEARGLE BANS

-> S

-> A-

2

2

-> B+

-> B

->B-

->Off

 

[DiscoDucky]

Are we allowed for some pre-drop speculation or is that just going to clog up this clean thread here?

 

[KM]

hold back on that for now, but feel free to come talk to me or anyone else about that stuff in irc :)

 

[DiscoDucky]

I think we can safely say that we can remove Slowbro, Mew, and Heracross from the rankings.

 

[Lowgock]

its so ugly without sprites

 

[KM]

its so ugly without sprites

wtf you guys

that's the historical spreadsheet

the viability rankings and sprites literally aren't even itt yet

that's in the first post

please don't kill me n_n

 

[UU ALL DAY]

Are we allowed to give suggestions now or should we wait until you finish updating everything?

Also, are you UTL Kitten o.o?

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I'm not one of the people hosting the viability threads, but if you ask me I'd wait another week or two before making suggestions. After all, we just had a huge metagame shift right now with Mew and Slowbro leaving the tier, and Vaporeon, Quagsire, Togekiss, Diancie, Smeargle, and Espeon (lol Espeon) joining the tier. I feel like we need to give the meta at least a week to adapt before we start suggesting changes, as only then will we be able to evaluate each mon in the meta.

Again, I don't know what the ones running the thread have to say, but I think we should wait and give the meta some time before we start making the preliminary list.

 

[KM]

yeah, the preliminary rankings should be up within the next couple of days. they're meant to be somewhat rough as it'll only be based on our limited experience with the new mons and some theorymonning, which is where you guys come in. we're already getting somewhat of a feel for what got better / worse but we'll be concretizing it within the next couple of days

stay beautiful until then and stop insulting my gorgeous spreadsheet n_n

 

[PokemonSmogon]

hello i would like to nominate espeon smeargle and togekiss for s rank. heres how it works. smeargle puts opponent to sleep. smeargle uses shell smash. smeargle uses baton pass. n smeargle goes to espeon and togekiss for a sweep. these pokemon should be banned and suspected because they are op.

 

[shadowyoshi64]

hello i would like to nominate espeon smeargle and togekiss for s rank. heres how it works. smeargle puts opponent to sleep. smeargle uses shell smash. smeargle uses baton pass. n smeargle goes to espeon and togekiss for a sweep. these pokemon should be banned and suspected because they are op.

I never actually post, and I'd hate to be the one to reply to a post like this. But first of all, it was said earlier that we should wait until the tier settles for nominations. And second, I don't find either Smeargle or Espeon broken. Smeargle can have a hard time setting up, while Espeon is kind of outclassed by other Pokemon in this tier. Also you shouldn't be talking about bans either. Based on your post though, you more so want SmashPass banned, not the Pokemon. Imo, Gorebyss is better at SmashPassing than Smeargle, as it's more consistent, and has offensive presences. (sorry if I sounded rude)

 

[Meru]

One thing that I'm going to say is a lot better is Empoleon. It can take on the new drop Togekiss while still faring well with Hydreigon, other Fairies, and the bulky Water-types of the tier. It also helps that Mew left, as most other Defoggers like Gligar and Crobat don't really want to switch into it, and it Defogs on bulky Steel-types, which helps to stifle their momentum. Because Hera left, it's so much harder to take Empoleon out in one hit, and many strong wallbreaking attacks like V-Create and LO Sheer Force Earth Power, MAero EQ, +2 MHoundoom Dark Pulse can all be EV'd to survive and KO in Torrent range, making it a natural bulky check to a wide range of 'mons.

Not gonna give a placement on it just yet, but definitely gonna highlight it as one of the things that needs to be promoted (which imo is the direction of this thread that we should be taking)

 

[KM]

other brief thoughts on placements

lucario: nasty plot and SD both got a big boost as dark coverage is no longer necessary (fuck chandelure). this makes them significantly stronger and harder to counter, and is a real threat for stall.

roserade: mew being gone and bulky waters not having the ability to OHKO roserade on the switch-in (psyshock) is huge. spikestacking in general got more viable with the loss of mew, and even the rise of heracross helped rose out a little bit.

suicune: no CM Slowbro, no guts band hera, more better

as for the new drops

smeargle: meta-defining, but inherently niche. will probably end up around the low a ranks or high b ranks.
quagsire: "hey look at me i have a great ability that's entirely ruined by my shit bulk". still good for stall though, probably high B
espeon: not quite sure on this one yet, but it is a fairly scary mon and magic bounce on something other than xatu and mevo absol is nice to have. 110 Spe is a great tier too.
togekiss: lots of untapped potential here. sweb + np3attack is really good, and it's versatile in general. will go up to S at some point
vaporeon: haven't seen it much. i can't imagine it'll be much different than it was before, probably low A

 

[Meru]

Sableye also needs to rise, as now that Heracross is gone, it's a lot easier to set up winning conditions for the little goblin. It also has a much larger role as a spinblocker now that Mew is gone, as it can be much more reliable at keeping your own hazards on the field. The arrival of Togekiss does suck, but it needs Dazzling Gleam to get past Sableye, so that's not actually as large of a concern as one would think.

 

[KM]

The viability thread has been updated with sprites etc

switching the formatting from LL's old thread to this was a nightmare, so a lot of it is still very wonky and not pretty enough. please bear with me, i'll be working on this stuff within the next day. I just wanted to get this up as soon as possible as a lot of you have been asking for this resource. we will also be providing explanation for some of the shifts, as well as a list of all the shifts that were made.

 

[Bouff]

Alright, so some of this might look complicated which means that i will post a direct outline of this whole ordeal. :o Note that some of the rankings in the OP as of now are fucked cause Kitten messed up lol, so the ones in here are correct.

huge list of shit

-> A+

-> S

-> A+

-> A

-> A+

-> A+

-> A

-> B+

-> A

-> A+

-> A-

-> A

-> A-

-> B+

-> A-

-> B+

-> B+

-> B+

-> B

-> B

-> B

-> C

-> B

-> B

-> B

-> B

-> B+

-> B

-> B-

-> B-

-> B

-> Death
(pretend this is Xatu) -> Death

-> B+

-> B+

-> A

-> S

-> B

I'll also include reasoning, since people will obviously question some of this.

more stuff

Hydreigon- With the arrival of Togekiss, Hydreigon as a Scarf user finds it much harder to get around in the tier, with Togekiss switching into both STABs with ease and being able to pretty much do anything against it; defog, heal bell, nasty plot, whatever. Although not being as safe against the LO set, Toge just puts too much of a hamper on Hydreigon, and isn't really what it was before, not to mention the fact it also lost a niche in being able to check Slowbro and SpDef Mew.

Lucario- Nearly unstoppable late-game if it's on Spike stacking teams (or if everything is weakened enough). It also lost an annoying answer to it in Slowbro, making it easier to sweep.

Mienshao- Also really likes Slowbro being gone, being able to run a Reckless LO set which makes it very hard for offensive teams not carrying Nidoqueen to switch in. It's also freed from the decision of running Aerial Ace on the Scarf set, letting it run Stone Edge, making it harder for the likes of Crobat, Togekiss, and Mega Aerodactyl to switch in.

Nidoking- Has a more significant niche than Nidoqueen in the current metagame, due to being able to check Togekiss much easier (unlike Queen, who has to risk gettting slammed by Air Slash flinches). It also really appreciates Mew leaving, making it easier to keep its hazards up.

Alakazam- A really great emergency check / RKiller on offensive teams to pretty much anything if the situation calls for it. Also has a lot of shit for balance / Stall teams in Calm Mind, Encore, Taunt, etc.

Swampert- Pretty much THE best Rocks setter in the tier. It fits on so many teams due to having great defensive typing which lets it switch into non grass move variants of CBTini a good amount of times, can set up Rocks and phaze reliably, and even has a good enough offensive presence to top it all off. Really good glue for teams that need a Rocks setter that has good bulk.

Froslass- Pretty much the best Spiker in the tier, due to its immense support movepool. It sets up Spikes pretty easily, prevents Rapid Spin due to its Ghost typing, and can prevent Defog users such as Empoleon (or Aero pre-mega if it's extremely bulky lol) with Taunt, and can even cripple offensive mons with Thunder Wave, or just outright kill with Destiny Bond, which is really great when considering the fact that these teams are built around late-game cleaners such as Lucario, Yanmega, Sharpedo, etc.

Granbull- It lost a pretty big niche in countering Heracross, although it's still a good physical wall, being able to stop the likes of Mega Absol, Hydreigon, Mienshao, etc, and can also be a pretty big asset to Balance teams by serving as a cleric.

Sableye- Being the second part of the Dual Ghost core, losing Heracross was huge for it, as not much on offensive teams like to switch into it. It might not beat a good portion of offensive spinners, but more likely than not, it'll be able to wear them down with Will-O-Wisp and Recover to the point where they will be able to be revenge killed while retaining your hazards at the same time. Not to mention, it's one of the few things that can actually block a Defog from Crobat and Aerodactyl.

Suicune- Losing the main bulky water killer and the main thing that can stop it from setting up is a huge asset to it. Suicune is now a huge pain to balance, as well as offense if it manages to set up, being able to tank a large amount of hits. It also can pull off a multitude of sets aside from Crocune, such as Tailwind Support and Offensive CM.

Empoleon- It really enjoys not having Heracross in the tier, as it's able to set up Rocks, Defog, or phaze much easier now. It also serves as a great answer to Jirachi, who has been growing in popularity a lot lately.

Roserade- With pretty much every bulky water getting better with the departure of Slowbro, Heracross, and Mew, it's not really surprising that Rose got better as well. Serving as a great check to the likes of Suicune, Swampert, and Mega Blastoise is a godsend for offensive teams, and being able to neutralize switch ins with Sleep Powder as well as being a great Toxic Spikes user and absorber make Roserade very effective in the current metagame.

Celebi- Kinda like Roserade, although it also really shines on offensive teams with WP Baton Pass, thanks to having a good amount of bulk letting it take most super-effective hits that aren't CBTini tier, and pivoting into an effective check into the process.

Cobalion- Losing Slowbro is really nice for it, as it makes sweeping much easier, and being able to check a good amount of threats at +2 that Lucario couldn't is a pretty cool niche.

I'll edit in the rest of the descriptions later, I'm tired as fuck right now

 

[KM]

zzz the only ones that were wrong were qwilfish and togetic gimme a break @_@


anyway, in case you guys didn't catch it, discussion is now open! so have at it :D

 

[Calloflochie]

Also, let's try not to shit up the thread with discussion about a C ranked mon moving up to B-, focus on the changes that have been made to the Pokemon you're most likely going to see in tours/ladder as a result of the recent shifts e.g Suicune became the premier CM user since it no longer has Slowbro to beat it in a CM war.

 

[President Shinra]

Aerodactyl should (IMO) at least be considered for S Rank, given it beats all of S Rank 1v1 with Earthquake / Stone Edge barring BP Luke or Scarftini (both rare), and can beat the majority of the pokes in the tier (with prior damage in some cases) and can take out GeoSmeargle and Togekiss (shiny new toys).

 

[Hoole]

You forgot to rank diancie.

 

[Swagodile]

Sableye also needs to rise, as now that Heracross is gone, it's a lot easier to set up winning conditions for the little goblin. It also has a much larger role as a spinblocker now that Mew is gone, as it can be much more reliable at keeping your own hazards on the field. The arrival of Togekiss does suck, but it needs Dazzling Gleam to get past Sableye, so that's not actually as large of a concern as one would think.

Seconding Sableye to A+.

 

[RyanKoopa]

I strongly disagree with Lucario for S rank. While it's certainly a great pokemon it isn't something you can just slap onto any team and automatically make it better like Togekiss or Victini. I feel the best comparison to Lucario is Mega Absol, both are incredibly powerful sweepers that are also incredibly frail. Now obviously Lucario is much better than Mega Absol due to an amazing typing and reliable priority, but that's why it should go to A+ rather than A.

Also seconding Mega Aerodactyl for S. That thing checks or counters so much of the tier it's not even funny, and is so easy to put on a team.

 

[KM]

Diancie has been placed into B rank. Sorry about that.