XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

[KM]

Hey, just a quick question...

It seem like Alomomola's gotten onto the list at B-, (but without a name), but Qwilfish still is nowhere to be seen. As far as I can tell, no one was against putting it on the list, and the argument was merely between putting it in B- or C/C+. Did you guys just forget about it, or is there a legit opinion that it shouldn't be on the list whatsoever?

Not trying to be pushy or anything, just curious as to where that's at :P want my fishy to get the recognition it deserves ø.ø'

On the whole mega-manectric discussion, I don't think it's fair to compare it to Magnezone, as the two fulfill completely different roles. Mega-Manectric is about dealing significant damage while being an offensive pivot that also is fairly tanky and extremely fast. Magnezone is merely an extremely slow, extremely powerful special sweeper. The importance of speed really can't be undervalued as much as you have either. The ability to outspeed nearly every single poke in the meta counts for a lot more than you're giving it credit for. The amount of A and B Tier pokes in UU who would be eventually even banned from the tier if they even got 15 or 20 more base speed is ridiculous.

Another thing that you have to consider, which I talked about in the Qwilfish post as well, is that Intimidate doesn't just shield you. It's a permanent -1 Atk on whatever's in the field until they switch out. This makes M-Manectric an extremely effective pivot as well as an effective rudimentary tank to take the blow off of physical sweepers.

Finally, you have to remember that normal Manectric has utility before it's mega-evolved. Lightningrod is an extremely useful ability in a tier full of electric sweepers and volt switchers, and it was actually good enough to give normal Manectric its own niche last gen.

Just some thoughts. I'm not experienced enough with Manectric to delineate it between the +/- marks, but I'd definitely place it somewhere in the mid to high A rank.

 

[newfren]

Magnezone isn't usually used as a special sweeper, it's usually a wallbreaker/pivot specs set that comes in on something that can't damage it (there's a surprisingly large number of things in this meta) and clicks a move to watch something die.

I agree that it's not really something you'd compare to Manectric - I think one of the better comparisons would be to Jolteon or a scarf Rotom-H. Jolteon brings a comparable speed while the difference in their special attack can be made up with various items, while Rotom-H gets similar coverage to Manectric, as well as the ability to cripple physical attackers, although Rotom-H uses will-o-wisp instead of intimidate.

 

[Bent1ey]

Yeah, the comparison with Magnezone is not a happy one, obviously the two pokemon serve entirely different proposes.

Jolteon and Raikou are actually better matches for M-Manectric, each of them sacrificing either bulk or speed when compared with the Mega. If Raikou's coverage wasn't so barren at full-speed, he'd be more of a good replacement, as it is, M-Manectric clearly brings more to the table.

 

[GroovyGator]

In my opinion, M-Manectric is way better than both, no doubt about it.

Jolteon has poor coverage and poor bulk, and doesn't have as many switch-in oportunities.

Raikou is way slower and has to run a subpar nature in order to get better coverage.

It's not that they're bad, but no pokemon can quite do what M-Manectric does in this metagame. It's powerful enough to be a late-game cleaner (even with no boosting item), is faster than the entire unboosted metagame except for Jolly M-Aero, and Intimidate helps it to take some hits it wouldn't be able to, and neither would Raikou and Jolteon most of the time. Considering how useful of a niche it is, and how much momentum it can generate in your favor (along with leaving a considerable dent on the opposing mon quite a few times) I really see it as A+. And thinking about it, S rank could be fitting too, simply because nothing does its job better and the benefits of using it can really compensate the opportunity cost of using it over other megas.

 

[mertyville]

Nominating Magneton for C Rank

The analysis set is obviously outclassed by Magnezone and steel trapping isn't as popular as it was previous generations. Again, even with Magnet Pull, most of the Steel Typs can Check is relatively easy. However, Electric/Steel is still a pretty good typing to which Magneton can go to a great bulky attacker with eviolith which makes it physically bulkier than Magnezone. In addition to that, Magneton can use status moves like Magic Coat, Thunderwave, Magnet Rise, Substitute or Protect (to scout).
With Choice Scarf, Magneton turns in a revenge killer allowing it to remove centain threats, mostly steel typs. Magneton is 10 points faster than Magnezone.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

IMO Magneton is probably at best C-. Steel trapping, while a viable option, is something that is really hard to pull off in UU, given that common steel-types can just outright beat Magneton (Magnezone actually has a higher chance to 2HKO Magneton with Thunderbolt than Magneton can with HP Fire; Aggron/Metagross just kills you with Earthquake immediately; Cobalion can just CC or volt switch out; you have a 50-50 chance to survive Drill Run from Escavalier: all the calcs assume Eviolite Magneton, so scarf magneton just outright loses). Jirachi is really the only common steel-type that Magneton can trap safely, and non-choiced variants with u-turn can just simply run to a counter while surviving HP Fire. Bronzong is just either going to smack you with EQ, or just do whatever the shit it does and then explode to bring in something that can easily exploit magneton. Durant is the only other steel that magneton is going to be able to reliably trap/kill.

As a pure analytic set Magneton just loses outright and his best niche over Magnezone, steel trapping, isn't very good either seeing as he sucks at his job anyway. It's more similar to Gligar: while Gligar is an excellent physical wall, he's just so badly outclassed by Aggron and he doesn't really do anything notable either outside of random baton passing sets.

 

[Kyuzeth]

This logic makes no sense. It's not that using a Mega is inherently bad (???), it's that using a Mega has an inherent opportunity cost of not being able to use other Mega Evolutions. You want to use Mega Absol? You can't use Mega Houndoom. That's an opportunity cost. This is the logic at play here.

That's why choosing the right Mega Pokémon is such an important decision. I do feel like every Mega Pokémon fits on some specific teams and has an own role, so that kind of takes the issue away. It's that each team can use a specific Mega Pokémon to fulfill its role.

 

[radianthero156]

ignore my avatar and the fact that magneton is my favorite poke, but actually it is an efficient steel trapper, i used it a lot as a megardevoir partner. the best set is 252 spe+/spa using eviolite with hunderbolt + hidden power ground + magnet rise + vswitch/toxic/twave/whatever. the only steels it cant reliably remove are roar users like steelix/meggron (who cant touch magneton and will get chipped away) and cobalion (which cannot take special fairy attacks anyway). if megardevoir drops or someone discovers a good fairy special sweeper, i can see magneton (magnet) rising

 

[mertyville]

ignore my avatar and the fact that magneton is my favorite poke, but actually it is an efficient steel trapper, i used it a lot as a megardevoir partner. the best set is 252 spe+/spa using eviolite with hunderbolt + hidden power ground + magnet rise + vswitch/toxic/twave/whatever. the only steels it cant reliably remove are roar users like steelix/meggron (who cant touch magneton and will get chipped away) and cobalion (which cannot take special fairy attacks anyway). if megardevoir drops or someone discovers a good fairy special sweeper, i can see magneton (magnet) rising

This is UU...Megavoir is BL :x

 

[Kyuzeth]

This is UU...Megavoir is BL :x

With that kept in mind, Magneton doesn't see much use in UU, especially with its evolution destroying everything.

 

[DiscoDucky]

ignore my avatar and the fact that magneton is my favorite poke, but actually it is an efficient steel trapper, i used it a lot as a megardevoir partner. the best set is 252 spe+/spa using eviolite with hunderbolt + hidden power ground + magnet rise + vswitch/toxic/twave/whatever. the only steels it cant reliably remove are roar users like steelix/meggron (who cant touch magneton and will get chipped away) and cobalion (which cannot take special fairy attacks anyway). if megardevoir drops or someone discovers a good fairy special sweeper, i can see magneton (magnet) rising

I don't know why Magneton is even on this list. The only upside it has over Magnezone is Eviolite, but there's nothing else. It's significantly weaker offensively and defensively and is faster, which makes him less valuable as an Analytic abuser. His role as a Steel trapper is less relevant due to the fact that every relevant Steel-type in the tier right now can KO it.

imo we should give it a rank after Magnezone gets banned.

 

[radianthero156]

i said "i used it", as in, used it while megardevoir was around. also, magneton is a steel trapper, magnezone not (analytic is 100% better for magnezone). and the only steels that can KO magnet rise magneton are cobalion, rock polish metagross and specs empoleon.

 

[Kyuzeth]

i said "i used it", as in, used it while megardevoir was around. also, magneton is a steel trapper, magnezone not (analytic is 100% better for magnezone). and the only steels that can KO magnet rise magneton are cobalion, rock polish metagross and specs empoleon.

You forgot Fire/Drain Punch Jirachi.

 

[dumbguyfin]

I don't think that Raikou is "way" slower than M-Manectric. If you run max speed+ on raikou you out speed pretty much everything relevant, minus Tor-T, Crobat, Hawlucha and Noivern which probably wont be staying in against raikou anyways (outside of noivern, which is not too common). Sure raikou lacks fire move, but that's pretty much all that M-Manectric has over Raikou (and intimidate, but raikou has a lot better special bulk), and shadow ball gives raikou decent coverage move. I think that M-Manectric is fine in A and Raikou in B+, but M-Manectric rising to A+ or S (lol) is just too much, compared to Raikou being B+.

 

[Ununhexium]

I don't think that Raikou is "way" slower than M-Manectric. If you run max speed+ on raikou you out speed pretty much everything relevant, minus Tor-T, Crobat, Hawlucha and Noivern which probably wont be staying in against raikou anyways (outside of noivern, which is not too common). Sure raikou lacks fire move, but that's pretty much all that M-Manectric has over Raikou (and intimidate, but raikou has a lot better special bulk), and shadow ball gives raikou decent coverage move. I think that M-Manectric is fine in A and Raikou in B+, but M-Manectric rising to A+ or S (lol) is just too much, compared to Raikou being B+.

All very true but mega manectric also has 20 more base special attack and doesnt take LO damage.

He looks retarded but is a good pokemon. I agree that A is pretty good.

 

[Kyuzeth]

I don't think that Raikou is "way" slower than M-Manectric. If you run max speed+ on raikou you out speed pretty much everything relevant, minus Tor-T, Crobat, Hawlucha and Noivern which probably wont be staying in against raikou anyways (outside of noivern, which is not too common). Sure raikou lacks fire move, but that's pretty much all that M-Manectric has over Raikou (and intimidate, but raikou has a lot better special bulk), and shadow ball gives raikou decent coverage move. I think that M-Manectric is fine in A and Raikou in B+, but M-Manectric rising to A+ or S (lol) is just too much, compared to Raikou being B+.

Manectric's strength lies not in its strength, but rather in its ability to perform so many roles as a single Pokémon. It's a fantastic offensive pivot that can soften up physical attackers, dish out some nice damage and blast past several bulky Pokémon without much effort, most notably stuff like Mega Aggron and Celebi.
Shadow Ball doesn't really provide substantially more coverage and is kind of weak compared to Overheat. Electric/Fire/Grass and Electric/Fire/Ice form amazing offensive coverage; Mega Manectric may be resisted/walled by one type, but that's where teambuilding comes in.

While I personally believe Raikou's power and ability to work as a setup sweeper may push it to A-, I still believe Mega Manectric is worthy of A+ due to the many assets it has and how much it can do on its own.

 

[EonX]

Yeah, Raikou probably deserves B+ or A-, but I need more work with it to formulate a firm opinion on it.

As I've said before, M-Manectric doesn't have sheer power, sheer sweeping capabilities, or sheer supporting capabilities. Its the ability for M-Manectric to do all of those things effectively in one teamslot that makes it so good. I don't believe it should be S rank since it's hard walled by Chansey and has some issues with Ground-types depending on the Hidden Power type it chooses, but it can simplify teambuilding so much for offensive teams. I mean, you get something that can wallbreak, sweep, or pivot depending on what's needed. That's 3 in 1. I'm not going to complain about having to use a Mega slot for something like that. It's a great Pokemon, but if you're focusing on just one aspect about it, you're going about it wrong. M-Manectric is one of those Pokemon that can shine in different ways on the same team depending on the circumstances that arise. A+ is good for it, and the only things really keeping it from S rank is mild coverage issues and the fact it takes up a Mega slot.

 

[GroovyGator]

I don't think that Raikou is "way" slower than M-Manectric. If you run max speed+ on raikou you out speed pretty much everything relevant, minus Tor-T, Crobat, Hawlucha and Noivern which probably wont be staying in against raikou anyways (outside of noivern, which is not too common). Sure raikou lacks fire move, but that's pretty much all that M-Manectric has over Raikou (and intimidate, but raikou has a lot better special bulk), and shadow ball gives raikou decent coverage move. I think that M-Manectric is fine in A and Raikou in B+, but M-Manectric rising to A+ or S (lol) is just too much, compared to Raikou being B+.

Thing with Raikou is, you have to give up either speed or coverage when using it. It is a good mon, but M-Manectric is a lot better simply because of that. And the sky high speed without giving up the ability to switch moves. And Intimidate.

Honestly I would be fine with Raikou staying at B+, but A- makes sense too.

 

[radianthero156]

actually, the only relevant things that megatric outspeeds and raikou dont are crobat, tornadus t and... non mega aero?
that said, you guys are overrating so much megatric's offense. 135 sp.atk is roughly... 92 special attack with life orb. yes, life orb rotom hits harder than megatric

 

[EonX]

radianthero156 , and what's wrong with outspeeding Crobat and Tornadus-T? You get to keep Crobat from getting a Defog off at all while Tornadus-T is a pretty dang serious threat imo and anything that has a way of dealing with it isn't a terrible choice. Again, it's not just the power (or sometimes, lackthereof) that Megatric has. Electric/Fire coverage alone is really good on some common defensive cores. Add in HP Ice or HP Grass, and you have some pretty neat coverage on most UU threats. Plus, you get 92 special attack with Life Orb... without the recoil. That adds to your ability to pivot with Intimidate + Volt Switch. That adds to your ability to sustain against defensive threats that try to LO stall things. That gives you more attacks to work with because you're not losing 10% of your max HP every time you attack. As I've said before, I've used Mega Manectric ever since the start of XY UU. It really has never disappointed me and I usually get decent usage, at worst, out of it every single battle I use it in. It's just so flexible. Sometimes you don't need to sweep with it, but remove an annoying Grass- or Steel-type that is troubling your sweeper. Sometimes you just need an Intimidate drop on a physical attacker for your physical tank / wall to stop a threat from sweeping your team. Other times, you just need something to stop a Mienshao or Tornadus-T from sweeping your team and Megatric has the Speed and power to do that. It's everything put together, not just one thing that makes Mega Manectric such a solid Pokemon imo.

This really isn't directed at one person, and I'm not trying to be an a$$, but stop focusing on one thing with Mega Manectric and look at everything it can do well with just one teamslot. It's not S rank for reasons already stated. I'm not trying to deny that. But I feel it is on the same level of a Crawdaunt or Tornadus-T or Darmanitan for its ability to perform different roles in one teamslot with just a single moveset and EV spread.

 

[Ununhexium]

radianthero156 , and what's wrong with outspeeding Crobat and Tornadus-T? You get to keep Crobat from getting a Defog off at all while Tornadus-T is a pretty dang serious threat imo and anything that has a way of dealing with it isn't a terrible choice. Again, it's not just the power (or sometimes, lackthereof) that Megatric has. Electric/Fire coverage alone is really good on some common defensive cores. Add in HP Ice or HP Grass, and you have some pretty neat coverage on most UU threats. Plus, you get 92 special attack with Life Orb... without the recoil. That adds to your ability to pivot with Intimidate + Volt Switch. That adds to your ability to sustain against defensive threats that try to LO stall things. That gives you more attacks to work with because you're not losing 10% of your max HP every time you attack. As I've said before, I've used Mega Manectric ever since the start of XY UU. It really has never disappointed me and I usually get decent usage, at worst, out of it every single battle I use it in. It's just so flexible. Sometimes you don't need to sweep with it, but remove an annoying Grass- or Steel-type that is troubling your sweeper. Sometimes you just need an Intimidate drop on a physical attacker for your physical tank / wall to stop a threat from sweeping your team. Other times, you just need something to stop a Mienshao or Tornadus-T from sweeping your team and Megatric has the Speed and power to do that. It's everything put together, not just one thing that makes Mega Manectric such a solid Pokemon imo.

This really isn't directed at one person, and I'm not trying to be an a$$, but stop focusing on one thing with Mega Manectric and look at everything it can do well with just one teamslot. It's not S rank for reasons already stated. I'm not trying to deny that. But I feel it is on the same level of a Crawdaunt or Tornadus-T or Darmanitan for its ability to perform different roles in one teamslot with just a single moveset and EV spread.

Finally someone who understands. Mega Manectric is good where it is but it is not outclassed by a single pokemon. Its one of those pokemon that everything individually isnt too crazy, but together it makes a formidable threat.

 

[mertyville]

Though Mega-Manectric has a role that no other pokemon could to (maybe Luxray on the physical side but Luxray sucks), I don't think it deserves higher than A Rank.
There are many other more flexible electric typ pokemon and Megas that should be considered for a team.

Zapdos: Besides having a better Typing it can run a greater number of sets like Physically Defensive, Specially Defensive, Baton Pass, Offensive Defog, Defensive Defog, Life Orb, Choice Specs, Rain Offense

Raikou: Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, Sub Calm Mind, Assult Vest

Magnezone: Steel Trapper, Assult Vest, Choice Specs, Choice Scarf

Mega-Ampharos: Agility, Offensive Heal Bell, Rest Talk

 

[Kyuzeth]

I feel like you're missing the point. Yes, the other Electric-types have their own roles, but they have to run various sets. Mega Manectric can do a lot with just one set. Let me quote EonX- here:

It's everything put together, not just one thing that makes Mega Manectric such a solid Pokemon imo.

Exactly this. With one set, it encompasses a lot of Electric-type traits (being a fast holepuncher that can help teammates set up on physical attackers and can scout) and THAT is why Mega Manectric is A+ Rank worthy.

 

[silenced]

Though Mega-Manectric has a role that no other pokemon could to (maybe Luxray on the physical side but Luxray sucks), I don't think it deserves higher than A Rank.
There are many other more flexible electric typ pokemon and Megas that should be considered for a team.

Zapdos: Besides having a better Typing it can run a greater number of sets like Physically Defensive, Specially Defensive, Baton Pass, Offensive Defog, Defensive Defog, Life Orb, Choice Specs, Rain Offense

The points for Zapdos are pretty good, but it can only run one, maybe two sets of these at once. Not so many options all at once where mega-manetric shines in. Still zapdos offers much more versatility so there is that to its name.

Raikou: Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, Sub Calm Mind, Assult Vest

Assault Vest I'm skeptical on, but okay. As long as chansey exists, Raikou has zero business running SubCM this generation. Scarf is total garbage now as its really weak for a scarfer and was really only useful if you needed a lure for scarf flygon last gen. It simply lacks the power to revenge kill threats with scarf. Specs is nice until you realise how dangerous it is to be hard countered by being locked into moves (and just about every coverage move/STAB raikou has can invite something dangerous in).

Magnezone: Steel Trapper, Assult Vest, Choice Specs, Choice Scarf

Steel trapper doesn't really do that well considering most steels can either win outright in damage output or volt-turn out. AV I'll grant as a plausible option. Specs is obviously good. Choice scarf is a terrible idea.

Mega-Ampharos: Agility, Offensive Heal Bell, Rest Talk

Mega Ampharos comes the closest with a physically defensive set to what mega-manetric can achieve, but mega ampharos gets worn down more easily as a trade off from being slower, and can invite much more dangerous things in if it doesn't decide to volt-switch out (especially other faster dragons)

responses underlined

 

[mertyville]

responses underlined

I think you are underrestimating most of the sets Zapdos is running. It is not about putting all sets into one, but that each set is threatening on its own and each of them have offensive presents.

And can you explain why Raikou has "zero" reason to run SubCalm Mind and that with Chansey in the same sentense? And the Choice Items are still viable since Steel doesn't ressist Ghost, so Raikou can spam Shadow Ball freely without weaking something that absorbs the attack most of the time and besides Chansey, how many viable Normal Typs do you see in the UU Tier?

Scarf and Steel Trapping might be inferiour to its other sets, but still viable options to Magnezone.

Mega-Ampharos is worn down easier? That thing might be slower but has better bulk and better defensive typing. Intiminate doesn't make up for it that much. While Mega-Ampharos is slow, it makes him a good volt switcher because you can either decide you switch out normally (before an opposing attack) or just volt switch (tanking a hit and safely bring in your check).

Besides that, I am not saying all of them are better, but rather they are still preferable options because they fit so many roles which makes them easy to fit into each team, making them difficult to predict.