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XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

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TM13IceBeam Don't forget mew, who is quite possibly the single best defogger in the tier atm. Also, while OU stole all good defoggers from us, pretty much every OU spinner from yestergen has come down. They were OU for a reason, look em up some time.
yeah good catch on mew. however one thing to note is that mew has a lot of options to run such as stealth rock, wisp, roost, taunt, psyshock, knock off etc. he may or may not have the slot for defog, unlike more 'dedicated' defoggers like empoleon/crobat who are pretty much running it most of the time.

speaking of which, flygon is effectively an upgraded claydol that can actually do something offensive, which is cool i suppose (claydol might be preferred if you want your own hazards... haha who am i kidding claydol is fucking shit)
 
As an addition to my previous post. I feel that Granbull should be B- as it the only Pokemon of it's type to fulfill it's role. It walls many top threats, has flaws, but does it's job.
 
Limitless Did Zygarde get BL'd or something? Judgeing from his former S rank, he's certainly UU viable at the very least, so getting banned seems like the only real reason for him to get removed.

TM13IceBeam I am of the party that believes that having options is always a plus and not a minus, especially for a mon like mew. The fact is that hazard removal is still a very valuable niche that is not filled by many good pokemon, whereas SR, taunt, psyshock, knock off, u-turn, etc etc have many many good users (I didn't mention roost because any good defensive mew set is going to run that, it's one of his greatest strengths).

Speaking of mew, I noticed the other day that mew gets night shade, allowing him to run a sort of psudo roost-toss set ala chansey. Would you ever take this over a STAB move or knock off for offensive presence on defensive sets? I feel like if you combined night shade with taunt, you could actually make him into a decent stall breaker with a slot leftover for whatever.
 
As an addition to my previous post. I feel that Granbull should be B- as it the only Pokemon of it's type to fulfill it's role. It walls many top threats, has flaws, but does it's job.

I feel like you should elaborate a little more with this explanation, but I do agree that Granbull should probably be somewhere around B. Considering it is now a Fairy-type, Granbull's got a really good defensive typing for this meta with all of the Fighting and Dark-types running around like Mienshao, Heracross, Machamp, Weavile, and Mega Absol just to name a few. 90 / 75 physical bulk is actually quite a lot after accounting for Intimidate as it allows Granbull to comfortable come in on a lot of physical attacks. Even scarfed Darmanitan and Victini can only 3HKO max physical bulk Granbull after Leftovers recovery while Granbull can hit back with EQ coming from 120 base Attack. Granbull pretty effectively walls Mienshao, Hera, and Weavile as well because of its typing and it them with STAB Play Rough. Intimidate is really what's allowing it to come in so often.

Granbull's bulk with Intimidate isn't its only selling point either as it has a pretty great support movepool as well including Heal Bell, Roar, T-wave, Toxic, and Taunt (although it can't really utilize it too well because of low speed). So not only can Granbull come in on a lot of physical hits and hit back pretty hard because of its base 120 Attack, it can also act as a decent cleric or phazer.

However, Granbull does have quite a few problems holding it back including low speed and lack of reliable recovery. Granbull is going to be slower than almost everything in UU which includes a lot of walls like Florges and M-Aggron. This really holds it back as it's almost guaranteed that it will have to take a hit before moving which can be detrimental. Granbull also lacks any sort of reliable recovery which means it relies on Leftovers and Wish passing for any sort of recovery. This is also bad because a lot of the Fighting-types that Granbull walls commonly run Knock Off which really cripples Granbull's ability to switch in again. Reliance on Leftovers makes Granbull pretty easy to wear down with hazards and chip damage from status and U-turn. Granbull also has no way to buffer its shitty Special Defense which pretty much let's any decent special attacker force it out. Snarl is an option to help its Special bulk, but it takes up either a coverage slot or support slot.

Overall, I think Granbull has enough of a niche as a bulky,heavy hitting Fairy-type with Intimidate that can also function as a cleric / phazer because of its unique support movepool. It's still easy enough to wear down, but it's typing, ability, and movepool give it enough reasons to actually use it on a team. I think B tier or B- is a pretty good spot for it.
 
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The problem for Granbull is 4MSS imo. It needs Play Rough and EQ to fend off and beat what it needs to. From there, it has to choose between Heal Bell, Roar, T-Wave, Toxic, and RestTalk. I've used it before (in prelim-RU) and it is pretty solid, but man I wish it could reliably switch into stuff like Krookodile, Weavile, Heracross, and Mienshao. Sure, it resists or takes little damage from their STABs due to Intimidate, but they all run Knock Off, which would cut off Granbull's only means of reliable recovery of any kind in Leftovers. I think B- fits it well as Granbull can handle some of the top tier threats, but many of them can use Knock Off to severely hamper Granbull for the remainder of the match.
 
OP said:
C Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.
What EonX- said about Knock Off being a huge thorn on Granbull's side is true. Not having reliable recovery is tough for a wall. I think Granbull belongs somewhere in C as he fits the description quite well.

Anyway, what do you guys think about Tyrantrum? His typing allows him to tank V-Creates and Sheer Force boosted Flare Blitzes. He can set up rocks or even boost up with Dragon Dance. He also has the elemental fangs which may seem subpar in terms of power, but they provide decent coverage and do decent damage thanks to Strong Jaw. Unfortunately, the lack of reliable recovery, low BP moves and low Speed and Rock Head being unreleased come on Game Freak keep him down.

252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 52-62 (16.9 - 20.2%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 58-68 (18.9 - 22.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
What EonX- said about Knock Off being a huge thorn on Granbull's side is true. Not having reliable recovery is tough for a wall. I think Granbull belongs somewhere in C as he fits the description quite well.

Anyway, what do you guys think about Tyrantrum? His typing allows him to tank V-Creates and Sheer Force boosted Flare Blitzes. He can set up rocks or even boost up with Dragon Dance. He also has the elemental fangs which may seem subpar in terms of power, but they provide decent coverage and do decent damage thanks to Strong Jaw. Unfortunately, the lack of reliable recovery, low BP moves and low Speed and Rock Head being unreleased come on Game Freak keep him down.

252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 52-62 (16.9 - 20.2%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 58-68 (18.9 - 22.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
I think C+ or B- fit Tyrantrum really well. He has a few viable sets which generally do very well. Theres the Dragon Dance set which is largely uncontested in the tier bar Kingdra and lol Scrafty since Zygarde is gone. This Tyrantrum runs max speed jolly and the rest goes into attack and a little bulk. Tyrantrum can thankfully fin quite a few opportunities to set up thanks to a 4x fire resistance and great physical bulk. Another set is the focus sash stealth Rock lead which in which Tyrantrum can run Head Smash to nuke something before dying. You can also go max hp max Atk with band (and run Head Smash over stone edge if you really wanna nuke shit) or max speed with scarf to revenge kill some stuff. I have also played around with assault vest sets with Hippowdon in my team to raise Rexes special defense to levels above even his physical defense. His coverage is pretty good with Earthquake, strong jaw boosted Elemental Fangs and even Crunch if you really hate Ghosts and Psychics.
I think the closest competition Tyrantrum has is Kingdra which in some ways outclasses it due to a better dual stab, ability to go special(arguably the better set) or mixed and sits at a better speed tier. It also shares a 4x fire resistance and far fewer weaknesses.Tyrantrum can distinguish itself enough however to give it a strong niche due to Higher Physical Defense, the ability to hit far Harder, and access to Stealth rocks. Thus I think it is fine at B- or C+
 
What EonX- said about Knock Off being a huge thorn on Granbull's side is true. Not having reliable recovery is tough for a wall. I think Granbull belongs somewhere in C as he fits the description quite well.

Anyway, what do you guys think about Tyrantrum? His typing allows him to tank V-Creates and Sheer Force boosted Flare Blitzes. He can set up rocks or even boost up with Dragon Dance. He also has the elemental fangs which may seem subpar in terms of power, but they provide decent coverage and do decent damage thanks to Strong Jaw. Unfortunately, the lack of reliable recovery, low BP moves and low Speed and Rock Head being unreleased come on Game Freak keep him down.

252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 52-62 (16.9 - 20.2%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 58-68 (18.9 - 22.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
One thing that realy hinders its sweeping capability is it lacks a reliable high BP STAB move like Outrage (lol but it learns Thrash) because in my personal experience Dragon Claw sometimes does not quite cut it for sweeping and missing a Stone Edge (Or worse, the Fangs...) could be a nuisance when you attempt to sweep as it doesn't have the best typing around being weak to Ice, Fighting and Ground, three extremely common attacking types in UU. It could be easy to grab 1 DD boost of from a choice locked Fire moves, but that 1 boost might not cut it thanks to the lack of high BP STABs and boosting chances are hard to come by when your opponent makes the appropiate switch. It also has quite a 4MSS syndrome with the last move slot on coverage as you will have to pick one of the Fangs or EQ.
 
One thing that realy hinders its sweeping capability is it lacks a reliable high BP STAB move like Outrage (lol but it learns Thrash) because in my personal experience Dragon Claw sometimes does not quite cut it for sweeping and missing a Stone Edge (Or worse, the Fangs...) could be a nuisance when you attempt to sweep as it doesn't have the best typing around being weak to Ice, Fighting and Ground, three extremely common attacking types in UU. It could be easy to grab 1 DD boost of from a choice locked Fire moves, but that 1 boost might not cut it thanks to the lack of high BP STABs and boosting chances are hard to come by when your opponent makes the appropiate switch. It also has quite a 4MSS syndrome with the last move slot on coverage as you will have to pick one of the Fangs or EQ.
Well if you think about it Tyrantrum is sorta like Kyurem in which it doesn't really need it's secondary Dragon stab and can forgoe it to run more coverage. A strong jaw boosted SE fang does around 1.5 times more than a neutral Dragon claw
 
One thing that realy hinders its sweeping capability is it lacks a reliable high BP STAB move like Outrage (lol but it learns Thrash) because in my personal experience Dragon Claw sometimes does not quite cut it for sweeping and missing a Stone Edge (Or worse, the Fangs...) could be a nuisance when you attempt to sweep as it doesn't have the best typing around being weak to Ice, Fighting and Ground, three extremely common attacking types in UU. It could be easy to grab 1 DD boost of from a choice locked Fire moves, but that 1 boost might not cut it thanks to the lack of high BP STABs and boosting chances are hard to come by when your opponent makes the appropiate switch. It also has quite a 4MSS syndrome with the last move slot on coverage as you will have to pick one of the Fangs or EQ.
Outrage isn't exactly the most reliable STAB move now that Fairy types exist. But yeah, you'll miss the raw power of good old Outrage. But I guess it's worth noting that you OHKO SpDef Mew and 2HKO Slowbro with a +1 Crunch. That bit about 4MSS is also true.
Well if you think about it Tyrantrum is sorta like Kyurem in which it doesn't really need it's secondary Dragon stab and can forgoe it to run more coverage. A strong jaw boosted SE fang does around 1.5 times more than a neutral Dragon claw
I wouldn't compare Tyrantrum to Kyurem. Kyurem is more of a wallbreaker who uses his excellent coverage to wear down walls. His moves also have better BP btw. Tyrantrum theoretically fulfill different roles thanks to his stats and typing. He could be a boosting sweeper but his ability forces you to use "mediocre" moves with relatively low BP. He's also outclassed by Kingdra (only other boosting Dragon sweeper I can think about atm) at that role too. Also, thanks to his bulk and typing he could play as an offensive pivot who can lay down SR and retaliate if necessary.
 
Outrage isn't exactly the most reliable STAB move now that Fairy types exist. But yeah, you'll miss the raw power of good old Outrage. But I guess it's worth noting that you OHKO SpDef Mew and 2HKO Slowbro with a +1 Crunch. That bit about 4MSS is also true.

I wouldn't compare Tyrantrum to Kyurem. Kyurem is more of a wallbreaker who uses his excellent coverage to wear down walls. His moves also have better BP btw. Tyrantrum theoretically fulfill different roles thanks to his stats and typing. He could be a boosting sweeper but his ability forces you to use "mediocre" moves with relatively low BP. He's also outclassed by Kingdra (only other boosting Dragon sweeper I can think about atm) at that role too. Also, thanks to his bulk and typing he could play as an offensive pivot who can lay down SR and retaliate if necessary.
The " low BP" moves meaning the Fangs have basically a 97.5 base power factoring in strong jaw FYI
 
With Zygarde gone Kyurem should be moved higher (A+ at least), as it's the best dragon in the tier right now. It usually runs a mixed set with Iron Head and Earth Power, so neither Florges or M-Aggron are reliable answers.
Victini is just about the only wallbreaker that gives it competition, but they're not really comparable since one is specially-oriented and the other is more physical-oriented.
 
Well if you think about it Tyrantrum is sorta like Kyurem in which it doesn't really need it's secondary Dragon stab and can forgo it to run more coverage. A strong jaw boosted SE fang does around 1.5 times more than a neutral Dragon claw
It is true that Tyrantrum can easily drop Dragon Claw on its moveset. But I still can't get over that it doesn't get Outrage. If you have a whooping 120 BP STAB move that has only 1 immunity and 1 resist, your reliance on coverage hugely decrease. Along with Stone Edge (Neutral Stone Edge is as strong as Strong Jaws Poison Fang) and EQ you basically will at least 2HKO the entire tier after a boost. While it is true that locking into Outrage isn't the best idea with Fairies Florges running rampant in the tier, it is still eadilt one of the best late game cleaning tool once the Steels and Fairies Florges are gone.
 
With Zygarde gone Kyurem should be moved higher (A+ at least), as it's the best dragon in the tier right now. It usually runs a mixed set with Iron Head and Earth Power, so neither Florges or M-Aggron are reliable answers.
Victini is just about the only wallbreaker that gives it competition, but they're not really comparable since one is specially-oriented and the other is more physical-oriented.

Which one's the physical wall breaker and which one is the special one? They both have great mixed stats and decent movepools on both ends of the spectrum, I'd say the main difference is the typing of their movepools (different, but both pretty good) and their defensive typing(both pretty crummy tbh) more then anything else.
 
Rotosect , a little surprised you forgot about Nidoking/Queen as wallbreakers, but still agreeing that Kyurem is really dang good. Zygarde getting the boot should only shine more light on the Forgotten Dragon as I am dubbing it. Definitely needs to be A+ as not a lot of shit can switch into it. Base 95 Speed makes it faster than Nidoking and twin base 130 attacking stats means it will generally hit harder than Victini. Main drawback is the fact that it is extremely vulnerable to hazards, but yeah, it's amazing.
 
Rotosect , a little surprised you forgot about Nidoking/Queen as wallbreakers, but still agreeing that Kyurem is really dang good. Zygarde getting the boot should only shine more light on the Forgotten Dragon as I am dubbing it. Definitely needs to be A+ as not a lot of shit can switch into it. Base 95 Speed makes it faster than Nidoking and twin base 130 attacking stats means it will generally hit harder than Victini. Main drawback is the fact that it is extremely vulnerable to hazards, but yeah, it's amazing.
Kyurem is also much bulkier than Nidoking and Victini, and a OK amount bulkier than Nidoqueen (Using 0 EVs in HP/Defense on Kyurem and Max HP Nidoqueen). Kyurem is so strong I even would nominate it for S-rank, but the fact that it needs Defog/Rapid spin support keeps me from doing it.

Which one's the physical wall breaker and which one is the special one? They both have great mixed stats and decent movepools on both ends of the spectrum, I'd say the main difference is the typing of their movepools (different, but both pretty good) and their defensive typing(both pretty crummy tbh) more then anything else.

Kyurem runs a mixed set quite effectively, because of its high 130 offensive stats. On the other han Victini more or less has to choose between physical and special, since 100 offensives are kinda lacking without heavy investment (for a wallbreaker)
 
I nominate Gallade for B rank. With the banishment of Medichamite to BL, Gallade is the top Psychic fighting type in UU again. Additionally, the reason I think it should move up is how versatile it can be. Along with its great STAB moves in close combat and drain punch, it has fantastic coverage moves including Stone edge, Ice punch, Knock off, poison jab, and Leaf blade, so you can use these moves to cover a weakness your team has. Also, even though it lacks in physical bulk, it can be a very good special wall. With its access to drain punch, knock off, and power up punch it can be a viable assault vest user. It has middling speed, but with all those great moves to choose from, a choice scarf option is not out of the question. A choice band set can be a good wallbreaker, Pulverizing anything it attacks with Close Combat or any other one of it's numerous coverage moves. Even though it isn't as effective as it once was, a swords dance set is also a possibility. This is the Perk of Gallade, with the numerous sets that it can run, it can be quite unpredictable and if you make the wrong move against one, it could cost you the game.
 
I nominate Gallade for B rank. With the banishment of Medichamite to BL, Gallade is the top Psychic fighting type in UU again. Additionally, the reason I think it should move up is how versatile it can be. Along with its great STAB moves in close combat and drain punch, it has fantastic coverage moves including Stone edge, Ice punch, Knock off, poison jab, and Leaf blade, so you can use these moves to cover a weakness your team has. Also, even though it lacks in physical bulk, it can be a very good special wall. With its access to drain punch, knock off, and power up punch it can be a viable assault vest user. It has middling speed, but with all those great moves to choose from, a choice scarf option is not out of the question. A choice band set can be a good wallbreaker, Pulverizing anything it attacks with Close Combat or any other one of it's numerous coverage moves. Even though it isn't as effective as it once was, a swords dance set is also a possibility. This is the Perk of Gallade, with the numerous sets that it can run, it can be quite unpredictable and if you make the wrong move against one, it could cost you the game.

The problem I have with Gallade is that it really has nothing over the Fighting-types in the tier. You mentioned that it can run a versatile offensive set with its coverage moves, but why would I use offensive Gallade over Mienshao or Heracross which both have base Attack equal to Gallade's? Comparing Gallade to an S rank like Mienshao might not be entirely fair, but in comparison to Heracross it falls kinda short. Heracross has better dual-STAB and much better abilities in Guts and Moxie to take advantage of. It's even a bit faster than Gallade making a scarf set much more effective on Hera than on Gallade.

Defensively, Gallade is receiving competition from Machamp who can freely use Dynamic Punch on its AV sets, Scrafty who has much better mixed bulk and much more useful defensive abilities in Shed Skin and Intimidate, and Hitmontop who packs utility in Intimidate and Rapid Spin. Gallade really can't do anything much better than most of these mons I've listed, so B rank is quite high for it considering both Hitmontop and Scrafty are B- rank. Gallade is pretty outclassed overall, so I'm thinking somewhere in C rank might be more appropriate.
 
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