XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

[Mahmudkipz]

Kyurem runs a mixed set quite effectively, because of its high 130 offensive stats. On the other hand Victini more or less has to choose between physical and special, since 100 offensives are kinda lacking without heavy investment (for a wallbreaker)

While 100 in both offenses seem underwhelming at first glance, what makes Victini so amazing in wallbreaking is not its stats but its movepool. 100 offense is not bad when you have a whooping 180 BP STAB move in V-Create that 2HKOs half the tier, and most of the other half is taken care by a 130 BP coverage move in Bolt Strike. More importantly The most common things that wall it might be Water /Grounds and Rock/Grounds, but a glance at Victini's movepool will reveal that it also has access to Grass Knot and Energy Ball - which, coincidentally, are 4x effective against most of those who walls Victini in its physical spectrum. With small investment (just give it a neutral nature) you can 2HKO most of those with either move. While it might still be walled by Dragon/Grounds (which is just Flygon now) with this coverage, it can always just U-turn out to an appropiate answer, or it can simply run Glaciate on its last moveslot to kill Flygon itself. Moreover, thanks to its ability, all of its move that it needs have over 90 accuracy making them very reliable. The reason why Victini is a good wallbreaker is because its moves have high power and cover almost the entire tier while worst comes to worst it can U-turn out.

The problem with Kyurem is that its coverage is nowhere as good as Victini's and while it has better stats, its moves at most only reach 90BP sans Draco Meteor, Blizzard and Focus Blast, the former one hugely hampers its firepower after using it and the later two have horrible accuracy (and locking in Outrage proves to be deadly as it means free Aggron/Florges switch in). Ice/Ground might seem decent at first, and you can run Iron Head to waste Florges, the prime Special Wall of UU, but bulky Waters will still wall you, most notably Alomomola who can Mirror Coat the damage back and Blastoise who can fire back an Aura Sphere. Porygon2 and Umbreon don't care about Kyurem unless it packs Focus Blast or Outrage. Bug/Steels, mainly AV Escavalier, don't care Kyurem's unSTABed Earth Power and can hit hard back with an SE Steel STAB. Bronzong, one of the most popular Trick Room setters, don't care about Kyurem and can setup TR in its face without worry and can use Gyro Ball to break its sub. The lack of a pivot move also makes it less ideal. Its ability, Pressure, does not help it offensively (Don't get me wrong, it is still a good ability defensively that makes Kyurem less easily revenge killed by Sub stalling out low PP moves). Luckily it has reliable recovery in Roost and above average bulk that allows it to increase its longevity over Victini.

 

[EonX]

I love Gallade. I really do. First analysis I ever wrote, so it'll always have a special place in my heart. However, Gallade really has issues with competition no matter what it does. Justified may seem like a nice ability, but it really isn't good on Gallade as most Dark-type moves hit on Gallade's low physical defense. Gallade can certainly run many sets, but it always runs into the "why use this when I can use that?" problem Offensively, SD, CB, and all-out attacker are done better by Mienshao (and Heracross to an extent) Band is outdamaged by Mienshao (Reckless HJK yo) and Scarf is slower than Mienshao and Heracross who also have more reliable abilities to power up their moves (Reckless for Shao and Moxie for Cross) Defensively, Gallade has issues with Machamp, who can simply slap an Assault Vest on to gain all the bulk it needs to tank hits and dish them back out. Gallade has Wish, but that piss poor HP stat won't do much good with stuff like Florges, Umbreon, and Vaporeon in the tier. I'm thinking B- Rank at best for Gallade, but probably more like C+/C

 

[silenced]

While we're on the topic, why the hell is CB mienshao even a thing? Last gen it was considered overkill at best and stupid at worst to run it when you could be abusing regenerator and LO, or outspeeding and RK everything with a reckless scarf set. Unless I'm missing some vital 2HKO/OHKO (or several), I see zero reason anyone should lock themselves into a move with mienshao by using choice band, especially with protect usage and ghosts still in use despite knock-off spam.

 

[Taehl]

While we're on the topic, why the hell is CB mienshao even a thing? Last gen it was considered overkill at best and stupid at worst to run it when you could be abusing regenerator and LO, or outspeeding and RK everything with a reckless scarf set. Unless I'm missing some vital 2HKO/OHKO (or several), I see zero reason anyone should lock themselves into a move with mienshao by using choice band, especially with protect usage and ghosts still in use despite knock-off spam.

The point is that CB Gallade is outclassed by CB Mienshao. While CB Mienshao isn't that good (or rather outclassed by the LO variant), it's still better than CB Gallade. He's just saying that there isn't much reason to run Gallade at all, since all of it's sets are outclassed by other fighing types in the tier.

 

[WebBowser]

While we're on the topic, why the hell is CB mienshao even a thing? Last gen it was considered overkill at best and stupid at worst to run it when you could be abusing regenerator and LO, or outspeeding and RK everything with a reckless scarf set. Unless I'm missing some vital 2HKO/OHKO (or several), I see zero reason anyone should lock themselves into a move with mienshao by using choice band, especially with protect usage and ghosts still in use despite knock-off spam.

Only particularly good reason I can think of...

252 Atk Choice Band Mienshao Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 114-136 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

If he still has lefties, you have a pretty legit shot at 2hkoing Cofag on the switch in.

252 Atk Choice Band Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 170-202 (53.1 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Given how hard phys defensive cofag walls mien normally, this might be worth it. Still pretty friggen niche though.

 

[Petrico94]

I think they forgot Klinklang

 

[WebBowser]

Petrico94 care to elaborate on how Klinklang is UU viable? I've never seen a single one, so I doubt it's used very much.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

klinklang is kind of shitty tbh. shift gear and gear grind are great moves, but klinklang's physical movepool is limited to wild charge, return and gear grind. he can't get by the bunch of water/ground types that reside in the tier, and he can kill bulky waters with wild charge, except that he has to risk scald burns in the process, as well as recoil, making him die a lot faster.

also he's never getting by mega aggron without a weird mixed set (which he doesn't really have the space to run except for like volt switch)

 

[EonX]

Yeah, Klinklang isn't really good tbh. Great signature moves... Nothing else. Wild Charge beats bulky Waters, but nothing is helping it against virtually any Steel-type with decent bulk (M-Aggron, Metagross, Escavalier, etc.) Decent bulk, great boosting move, solid STAB move, but nothing much else and it has next to no coverage... No reason to have it ranked imo.

 

[Durant]

I think they forgot Klinklang

When RU rolls around Klingklang can be on a viability ranking.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

When RU rolls around Klingklang can be on a viability ranking.

It will, but this is the UU rankings so it does not matter here. If Klingklank were to be ranked here it should be D/E. Such rankings are unnecessary unless the pokemon is common (E-vire anyone?)

 

[Magcargo]

I'd like to suggest Articuno for somewhere in the C Rank, for one simple reason: Freeze Dry.

Articuno is already B- Rank.

 

[Ununhexium]

I'd like to suggest Articuno for somewhere in the C Rank, for one simple reason: Freeze Dry.

well granted he does have hurricane and STAB ice beam but he also has a 4x weakness to SR so thats a major issue. Also, he doesnt really have offensively oriented stats

 

[dingbat]

Regarding Klinklang, I do not see it being much use in this UU metagame. Although it can afford to run Adamant nature instead of Jolly Nature and has a pair of fantastic moves, Shift Gear and Gear Grind, it has an extremely shitty movepool offensively and it has an extremely hard time getting past physical walls, especially M-Aggron, Swampert, and Gastrodon. In addition, Klinklang really relies on the boost from Shift Gear to have any kind of offensive presence against most 'mons, and base 90 speed alone isn't going to do any favors with the likes of Victinis, Manectrics, and Houndooms running rampant throughout UU. Even at +1 Attack, most of these threats can still stomach a +1 (life orbed) attack and fire off moves that can OHKO it back if it doesn't switch out. D rank at best.

 

[KM]

Kyurem is also worth a mention for its wonderful (imo) subroost set for stall teams. With SubRoost, Dragon Tail, and Ice Beam, it can both act as a very hard-to-break wall who dwindles your PP down, a surprisingly strong attacker, and an effective phazer. It's a good replacement for Zygarde (zygarde bye, stall teams cry =( ), although it does fill a bit of a different role.

I'd place Kyurem at A+ or S given that it can fulfill so many roles well. Even if it isn't the best scarfer in the tier, or the best AV user in the tier, or the best phazer in the tier, it can perform all of these roles well, consistently, and uniquely.

 

[dingbat]

Kyurem is also worth a mention for its wonderful (imo) subroost set for stall teams. With SubRoost, Dragon Tail, and Ice Beam, it can both act as a very hard-to-break wall who dwindles your PP down, a surprisingly strong attacker, and an effective phazer. It's a good replacement for Zygarde (zygarde bye, stall teams cry =( ), although it does fill a bit of a different role.

I'd place Kyurem at A+ or S given that it can fulfill so many roles well. Even if it isn't the best scarfer in the tier, or the best AV user in the tier, or the best phazer in the tier, it can perform all of these roles well, consistently, and uniquely.

I agree with your post spot-on. I remember Kyurem being A+ rank some time ago (after mega-Gardevoir was booted from UU I think), and I really think it should at least regain that rank back. Its sub-roost set is unmatched by any other thing in UU, as it has the enormous HP-stat, along with the well-rounded defenses and speed to have a plethora of opportunities to set up a substitute in [Fill in Pokemon name]'s face. Although there is a slight moveslot syndrome over the last two moveslots, I don't think it's too much of a problem as it can go with Ice Beam + Earth Power/Dragon Pulse as a SubRoost Attacker or Ice Beam + DTail as a phazer, depending on what fits on the team better.

To showcase its bulk, here is a few somewhat relevant calculations with a 52 EV Kyurem:

4 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 94-112 (23.2 - 27.7%) --> Unless you are running SpA investment on this thing, its psyshock is not even guaranteed to break its sub. (Psychic WILL guaranteed break the sub, though)
252+ SpA Raikou Shadow Ball vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem: 96-114 (23.7 - 28.2%) --> I haven't seen much of those lately, but unless it's running Aura Sphere or Specs, even Raikou can't guarantee a broken sub.
252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem: 159-188 (39.3 - 46.5%) --> Kyurem is slower, and can still switch into it safely and set up a sub. Any move other than Flamethrower (27.4 - 32.4%) or lolSignal Beam (22.7 - 26.9%) will not break Kyurem's sub.
4 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem: 93-111 (23 - 27.4%) --> Again, no guaranteed break here, and Kyurem can just launch Ice Beams back at it.

Some volt switchers and U-turners are also going to have a hard time taking out its sub as well if they do not have boosts, which in most cases won't help the switcher much:

252 Atk Mienshao U-turn vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 82-97 (20.2 - 24%) --> It needs the life orb to break a full sub.
252 Atk Victini U-turn vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 70-83 (17.3 - 20.5%) --> Same deal; no band no break.
252 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T U-turn vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 91-108 (22.5 - 26.7%) --> Not many of these things run physical variants in the first place, and life orb still doesn't guarantee the break.
252 Atk Darmanitan U-turn vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 89-105 (22 - 25.9%) --> Fine, fine. You're kind of an exception here. Still not guaranteed, though.

Volt switch 98% of the time will NOT break a full Kyurem sub, so no volt switch calcs are really needed here. (Specs Raikou doesn't guarantee the break)

For added benefit, it can effectively tank some nuked attacks as well!

252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 400-472 (99 - 116.8%) --> Nevermind, I lied about that, but you should get the point of its bulk at this point, jokes aside.

The only real problem with Kyurem is that its defensive typing is a liability, as it is 2x weak to stealth rocks and many things can come in on it unsubbed (Machamp and M-Blastoise for example) and either force a switchout or simply do massive damage to it. In addition, Florges and Umbreon completely wall it, although Umbreon can not really do much back to it, even with Foul Play. (With Kyurem's minimum Attack stat and 0 HP/Def investment, Foul Play only does 35% tops) Vaporeon and Suicune will only cause stall wars with Kyurem, which is not fun for either side.

I'm not completely sure how good Kyurem is outside of the SubRoost set, but SubRoost alone should warrant an A rank since it is actually pretty darn effective, and its potential versatility should push it further to A+/S rank as you stated. Kyurem is something a good UU battler should never ignore-- I will say through my own experience with one that this thing is capable of straight up stalling and/or nuking unprepared teams to defeat.

 

[WebBowser]

35% is enough to break subs, and a lot of kyums don't run min attack because they want a stronger dragon tail or dragon STAB not named draco meteor, Do not underestimate foul play.

As for vap, it can phase out non dragon tail variants, which is something.

Non roar variants of suicune are totally walled though (and vap in general is a better phaser imo). Crocune might be able to set up in his face though, not sure if kyum can break subs.

 

[radianthero156]

recommending mega absol (a-) for a+/s. after a swords dance, he can solo offensive teams with the combination of sucker punch + play rough. as scarf mienshao takes 88%-100% from +2 sucker punch, with a 69% chance of getting OHKOed after sr, the only viable offensive mons that can beat absol are scarf heracross and mega houndoom, and they still take a load from the move. it's also good to note that he has magic bounce, so people have no intention of using taunt/hazards/status moves against it in order to avoid sucker punch, as well as trick not working because of the megastone, meaning the only way to avoid sucker punch is using sub (and even that requires risky predictions).

however, it is also very versatile; having access to knock off/pursuit/superpower/psycho cut, its physical movepool is not limited to dark + fairy. additionally, it can go for a mixed set using its 115 special attack using moves like ice beam/fire blast to kill bulky grounds/bulky steels respectively.

on top of that, it also learns support moves like taunt, thunder wave and will o wisp, further increasing its unpredictability and versatility.

 

[Limitless]

Moved Porygon2 down to B- rank.
Moved Porygon-Z up to A- rank.
Moved Absol (Mega) up to A rank.

 

[Liquidocelot]

recommending mega absol (a-) for a+/s. after a swords dance, he can solo offensive teams with the combination of sucker punch + play rough. as scarf mienshao takes 88%-100% from +2 sucker punch, with a 69% chance of getting OHKOed after sr, the only viable offensive mons that can beat absol are scarf heracross and mega houndoom, and they still take a load from the move. it's also good to note that he has magic bounce, so people have no intention of using taunt/hazards/status moves against it in order to avoid sucker punch, as well as trick not working because of the megastone, meaning the only way to avoid sucker punch is using sub (and even that requires risky predictions).

however, it is also very versatile; having access to knock off/pursuit/superpower/psycho cut, its physical movepool is not limited to dark + fairy. additionally, it can go for a mixed set using its 115 special attack using moves like ice beam/fire blast to kill bulky grounds/bulky steels respectively.

on top of that, it also learns support moves like taunt, thunder wave and will o wisp, further increasing its unpredictability and versatility.

I second this Nomination mainly because of absol's sheer diversity and the sub set.

 

[WebBowser]

Duck-2 is now worse then Duck-Z? When did this happen? I figured Duck-2 would be better now that chansey, it's main competition, is gone.

 

[ryanr554]

Duck-2 is now worse then Duck-Z? When did this happen? I figured Duck-2 would be better now that chansey, it's main competition, is gone.

Their roles aren't really comparable but I assume the Knock Off buff makes eviolite a lot more risky to use. Chansey was also P-Zs best counter so it probably benefits from Chasneys absence more.

 

[WebBowser]

b-b-b-b-b-but

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 352-416 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

lol jk. In all seriousness, I forgot that duck-z was hard walled by chansey and not too much else (why did zone have to leeeeeave ussss?). Prolly was a lil silly of me, it's a tad late here.

 

[BurningFury101]

Nominating Cloyster for A+/S Rank. Cloyster has had an questionable drop to UU this generation, despite being less used, it's very powerful and few things actually can ever be NOT 2HKO'ed by it's moves. I'm going to go check out how S Rank, A+ Rank, and A Rank deal with Cloyster (Keep in mind everything I calculated with is with Hasty Nature):

- Hahaha, this thing gets OHKO'd with SR down even without a SS up

- About 81% chance to get OHKO'd with SR down, not a very good chance (252/0)

- It can kill Cloyster, but with Focus Sash Cloyster can win due with Icicle Spear (about 50% chance to OHKO without SS or SR up) so this is a 50/50

- This is one of the only counters to the thing, but Cloyster still hurts it pretty decently as it's a physical wall

- ^ Slowbro basically

- Do I really need to explain this?
A+ Rank

- Can't switch in on a Rock Blast at +2, but with a free switch it absolutely dominates Cloyster

- Ahahaha, Rock Blast.

- Foul Play kills Cloyster pretty easily, but with almost any prior damage (Not SR, actual DAMAGE) Cloyster can kill. Or if it switches in

- HAH, ICICLE SPEAR

- Look at the Hippo

- Scarfed Darmanitan wins, unless Sash is intact.
A Rank

- Cloyster murders it where even with SR down Absol can't OHKO it unless Adamant

- Outsped with +2 up and Hasty which is what I was calculating with all along, nope.

- OH MY GOD LOL

- Rock Blast = Dead

- Whichever wins the speed tie wins basically

- No.

- Wins if Cloyster has taken some prior damage but is 2HKO'ed by Surf (THIS IS WHY I USED HASTY NATURE)

- Nah bro, Nah. Icicle Spear OHKO's

- Jesus, why can't I just say "No" and everyone knows that it can't do crap to Cloyster?

- Icicle Spear

- Meteor Mash does hell of a lot, with some prior damage Cloyster loses, otherwise it can usually 2HKO with Surf

- No

- Can't switch in, but with free switch it decimates it

- Denied

- Also denied

- Snorlax gets 2HKO'ed by Rock Blast, and can only deal about 60% back.

So as you can see, with hazards down Cloyster can destroy basically every Pokemon in UU, barring Mega Blastiose, Suicune, and Slowbro.

 

[EonX]

Why use Hasty when it makes you weaker to priority moves? Naive is way better imo as Cloyster isn't living many special hits anyway.

Aside from that, onto my thoughts with Cloyster. It basically necessitates the use of a bulky Water- or Steel-type. You did leave out M-Aggron, Doublade, and Jirachi as 3 bulky Steel-types that can check it. (Doublade can be decimated by Surf / H-Pump though) Cloyster has a hard time setting up, but it punishes any choice user that locks itself into a move that it resists. Kinda reminds me of SS Omastar in the early stages of BW2 RU in that if it gets a SS boost and your defensive checks are weakened, lord help you because you're p. much dead. However, I think Cloyster should be A+/S rank for another item it can run; King's Rock. Because it can effectively hit the opponent 5 times in one turn, it basically has ~40% chance to flinch its way past so-called counters. It's not as ridiculous and infuriating as Jirachi can be with ParaFlinch or Scarf Iron Head tactics, but it's still pretty damn annoying... and a lot stronger. Basically, Cloyster doesn't always have to predict a switch-in since anything you use to counter it that is 2HKOed, will have to deal with that flinch chance if it hopes to actually beat it. There's also Lum Berry to shit on status users and Life Orb to just throw caution to the wind and hit really dang hard.