The only thing being retested is staraptor.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
XY UU Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter Limitless
- Start date
- Status
I know but aren't MegaZam and Volcarona getting the axe?
Oh i derped didnt see the ''gone'' lel. But to add some substance to this post since what stays and goes is already decided:
Infernape for A+: Being the best revenge killer in the game with a scarf and one of the best mixed attackers with life orb means infernape will always be useful to any offensive team out there, all this because of its base 108 speed that puts it ahead of mienshao and dual base 120 power stabs that allow it to hit very hard even though its offensive stats arent very high (104). Its excellent coverage options in earthquake and grass knot make the mixed set specially threatening as it can potentially 2hko almost everything with exception of specific physical walls such as arcanine and gligar. Fire/Fighting is also a surprisingly good defensive typing in UU allowing it to not be scared of mega houndoom and can even switch in a v-create or flare blitz from the other fire types in a pinch. What keeps infernape from S rank is its frailty that allows it to be easily koed by anything it doesnt resist, but other than that its an excellent pokemon that should always be considered when making a team.
Infernape for A+: Being the best revenge killer in the game with a scarf and one of the best mixed attackers with life orb means infernape will always be useful to any offensive team out there, all this because of its base 108 speed that puts it ahead of mienshao and dual base 120 power stabs that allow it to hit very hard even though its offensive stats arent very high (104). Its excellent coverage options in earthquake and grass knot make the mixed set specially threatening as it can potentially 2hko almost everything with exception of specific physical walls such as arcanine and gligar. Fire/Fighting is also a surprisingly good defensive typing in UU allowing it to not be scared of mega houndoom and can even switch in a v-create or flare blitz from the other fire types in a pinch. What keeps infernape from S rank is its frailty that allows it to be easily koed by anything it doesnt resist, but other than that its an excellent pokemon that should always be considered when making a team.
I guess I'll go first? Surprised no one posted anything yet.
Anywho, again just like my last post I'm going with Infernape to A+. Going cliche, Infernape runs a variety of sets and even knowing that set doesn't help you know what it will use. It is arguably one of the most versatile Pokemon in the game, only being beat by Pokemon with close to endless movepools such as Mew and Smeargle. It's dual STAB attacks are insanely powerful, as it has moves that can back it up such as Close Combat and Flare Blitz. Off the cliche side (Kind of), Infernape can play close to any offensive role in the meta-game(s). Ape has a fantastic speed tier of 108, letting it be a reliable revenge-killer (lol reliable it outruns almost everything in the tier), 104 base offences, allowing it to break through specially, and physically oriented walls. It also adds to the fighting-spam, a play style I may be using soon as so many fighting-types are threats right now. Bleh, irrelevant. Anywho, the reason itself that it has a movepool that is similar to Hydreigon, always packing a move that may be effective against the opposing team, is enough to pull through to like, B. But being given a great speed tier, and dual offences were a godsend, making Infernape, in my opinion a perfect A+ candidate.
As for Blissey, EASILY A+, if not S. This thing is about as bulky as a Sunkern (Trust me they're bulky), it takes hits better than an Assault Vest Goodra. Not enough for you? Thanks to it's monstrous health it can abuse WishPass, and don't think about status either, Blissey has Heal Bell, poof. It even can do okay damage with Seismic Toss, and thanks to reliable recovery in Soft-Boiled it can Toxic Stall, too! Any stall team (now) is not complete without Blissey, paired with something such as a Slowbro, they wall a shit ton of the meta-game. In my opinion Blissey simply is just too bulky, for the people that say the physical side is bulky? Bitch please, look at this calculation.
252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 334-394 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
That is a base 100 attack power move next to a base 135 attack Pokemon with Max EVs in attack, and a positive nature, and it can barely ever kill this monster.
That's my contribution for now, I'll post later when it's time for the next few mons, if you make any arguments against what I said go ahead, except I won't reply :P
Anywho, again just like my last post I'm going with Infernape to A+. Going cliche, Infernape runs a variety of sets and even knowing that set doesn't help you know what it will use. It is arguably one of the most versatile Pokemon in the game, only being beat by Pokemon with close to endless movepools such as Mew and Smeargle. It's dual STAB attacks are insanely powerful, as it has moves that can back it up such as Close Combat and Flare Blitz. Off the cliche side (Kind of), Infernape can play close to any offensive role in the meta-game(s). Ape has a fantastic speed tier of 108, letting it be a reliable revenge-killer (lol reliable it outruns almost everything in the tier), 104 base offences, allowing it to break through specially, and physically oriented walls. It also adds to the fighting-spam, a play style I may be using soon as so many fighting-types are threats right now. Bleh, irrelevant. Anywho, the reason itself that it has a movepool that is similar to Hydreigon, always packing a move that may be effective against the opposing team, is enough to pull through to like, B. But being given a great speed tier, and dual offences were a godsend, making Infernape, in my opinion a perfect A+ candidate.
As for Blissey, EASILY A+, if not S. This thing is about as bulky as a Sunkern (Trust me they're bulky), it takes hits better than an Assault Vest Goodra. Not enough for you? Thanks to it's monstrous health it can abuse WishPass, and don't think about status either, Blissey has Heal Bell, poof. It even can do okay damage with Seismic Toss, and thanks to reliable recovery in Soft-Boiled it can Toxic Stall, too! Any stall team (now) is not complete without Blissey, paired with something such as a Slowbro, they wall a shit ton of the meta-game. In my opinion Blissey simply is just too bulky, for the people that say the physical side is bulky? Bitch please, look at this calculation.
252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 334-394 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
That is a base 100 attack power move next to a base 135 attack Pokemon with Max EVs in attack, and a positive nature, and it can barely ever kill this monster.
That's my contribution for now, I'll post later when it's time for the next few mons, if you make any arguments against what I said go ahead, except I won't reply :P
Gonna make this nice and short.
Blissey is easily an A+ rank 'mon. As soon as this thing entered the UU tier, I immediately knew that this would now be my go-to medic/wishpasser on many of my UU teams over Umbreon/Florges/Alomomola, although it can certainly do much more than just Wishpassing/Heal-Belling. What prevents this new blob from being in S rank is the fact that it really needs a bit of support in terms of either deterring the opponent from setting up on its face or just flat out getting wrecked by a powerful physical move. However, in my experiences thus far, it was truly able to carry its weight in most of the battles in which I've used it.
Infernape imo is an A rank 'mon, although I might be selling it a little bit short; A+ rank certainly isn't a reach for this thing. Although this thing faces competition with Victini and Darmanitan as a Fire-type attacker, Infernape has a higher base speed that allows it to revenge Mienshao, and not to mention, its offensive stats are actually slightly higher than Victini's across the spectrum. Its utility nearly matches that of Victini's as it is capable of running so many viable sets, although the Scarf set is certainly the one preferable over its many other sets.
Edit: Just got cleaned by a SD Infernape as I was writing this lol
Edit: Just got cleaned by a SD Infernape as I was writing this lol
Decided to reiterate my old posts regarding Infernape and Blissey.
Infernape -> A+ | I can't see Infernape anywhere else in the tier. It's got a great mix of speed, power and versatility that help it fit onto any kind of team. It's not only the speediest Scarfer in the game, but flamin' ape can pull off a mixed LO set, Swords Dance and Nasty Plot sets, has access to priority and gets some really good moves to complement it, such as U-turn for scouting and Mach Punch as a priority move to pick off weakened threats. Close Combat and Fire Blast leave some huge dents in non-resistors, but generally few things like to come in on Infernape. The reason why I'm placing it in A+ and not S, is because it somewhat suffers from 4MSS; if it doesn't run Flare Blitz, for example, Florges can wall most Infernape variants. Beside that, however, Infernape is still incredibly solid and has carved its name into the UU metagame. Infernape for A+ Rank.
Blissey -> A+ | Oh hello, Blissey, you irritable pink blob of doom and demise. Yep, it's here to stay in UU with little sister Chansey ruling OU. That said, Blissey does its job really well in UU, making special attackers cry for days on end and supplying its own team with Heal Bell, Stealth Rock and, most importantly, Wish support. With Wishes ranging from 325 to 357 HP, Blissey has the capacity to heal almost any Pokémon to full health with these monstrous Wishes. Sadly, Blissey's only worthwhile means of offense is Seismic Toss, so it's complete and utter Taunt or setup bait for other Pokémon. Sableye is a full-on counter with Prankster Taunt and its immunity to Seismic Toss. Nevertheless, Blissey is still a stellar supporting Pokémon and a nice asset to UU. Blissey for A+ Rank.
Infernape for S
Insane Speed and great mixed stats for UU. A large movepool to abuse those offensive stats as well as boosting moves on both sides. Infernape packes priority fighting type moves on both attacking sides and being a Fire/Fighting Type, it is one of 2 viable physical attackers in the tier, that can take on special walls and is immun to burn.
While the physical set might be more viable, the special set can caught physical walls of guard, punishing them with +2 Fireblast.
The only thing that comes out of top of my head, that can barely switch into any Infernape would be Florges.
Blissey for S
While most would agree with A+ or A (lol), I am going with S for one reason: It shifts the metagame around itself forcing people to run pretty much at least one physical fighting-type or rather one physical fighting-type move, making Will-O-Wisp more viable in the tier even though fire-types are almost everywhere. Insane Bulk that can absorb the most powerful special attack in the game without investment into HP or SpD, can cripple opposing mons with t-wave, pass the largest wishes in the game and acts as a great cleric.
I can see Sun Teams being more viable now thanks to access to Will-O-Wisp and Blissey being able to tank all the special hits, besides Infernape, Hera,(Mega)Zam.
Insane Speed and great mixed stats for UU. A large movepool to abuse those offensive stats as well as boosting moves on both sides. Infernape packes priority fighting type moves on both attacking sides and being a Fire/Fighting Type, it is one of 2 viable physical attackers in the tier, that can take on special walls and is immun to burn.
While the physical set might be more viable, the special set can caught physical walls of guard, punishing them with +2 Fireblast.
The only thing that comes out of top of my head, that can barely switch into any Infernape would be Florges.
Blissey for S
While most would agree with A+ or A (lol), I am going with S for one reason: It shifts the metagame around itself forcing people to run pretty much at least one physical fighting-type or rather one physical fighting-type move, making Will-O-Wisp more viable in the tier even though fire-types are almost everywhere. Insane Bulk that can absorb the most powerful special attack in the game without investment into HP or SpD, can cripple opposing mons with t-wave, pass the largest wishes in the game and acts as a great cleric.
I can see Sun Teams being more viable now thanks to access to Will-O-Wisp and Blissey being able to tank all the special hits, besides Infernape, Hera,
Last edited:
Infernape for A+
Infernape has a great speed stat, good attacking stats, and a variety of sets. These include choice band, choice scarf, nasty plot, swords dance, all out physical life orb, all out special life orb, and mixed life orb. It has lots of coverage and a combination of the last two make it incredibly unpredictable. However it can't switch into much with its frailty, thus, it's A+ and not S nomination. I don't want to write a wall of text to say what others have, so just know I support them.
Blissey for A+
Blissey is the special wall. It can wall almost every special attacker in the game, and can do a little more than just wall. She can help teammates with aromatherapy sand huge wishes, set up stealth rocks, use other niche moves like gravity and counter, spread status, and deal some damage with a salvageable special attack for the occasional flamethrower. These attributes, along with the ones mentioned make her an A+ pokemon with her main downfall being her pitiful defense stat and normal typing.
Infernape has a great speed stat, good attacking stats, and a variety of sets. These include choice band, choice scarf, nasty plot, swords dance, all out physical life orb, all out special life orb, and mixed life orb. It has lots of coverage and a combination of the last two make it incredibly unpredictable. However it can't switch into much with its frailty, thus, it's A+ and not S nomination. I don't want to write a wall of text to say what others have, so just know I support them.
Blissey for A+
Blissey is the special wall. It can wall almost every special attacker in the game, and can do a little more than just wall. She can help teammates with aromatherapy sand huge wishes, set up stealth rocks, use other niche moves like gravity and counter, spread status, and deal some damage with a salvageable special attack for the occasional flamethrower. These attributes, along with the ones mentioned make her an A+ pokemon with her main downfall being her pitiful defense stat and normal typing.
I'll add more later but I'm in the car so blissey for A+. Mainly because and STAB fighting attack OHKOes it. These are not even hard to find because of the amount of fire types in UU. The weakest one is infernape which still has a 81% chance to ohko after rocks. But there are so many viable fighting types in UU its kind of hard to switch in safely. Off of the top of my head there is Mienshao, Heracross, Infernape, Lucario, and probably a few miscellaneous.
I know special walling is its thing, but dying to any physical attacker is kind of bogus.
I know special walling is its thing, but dying to any physical attacker is kind of bogus.
Then you should think again because florges is actually 2hkoed by flare blitz. Infernape's most common sets are scarf and mixed the first which is walled by pretty much any physical wall not named forretress (which isnt really a ''wall' per se) and the second is walled by gligar, arcanine and must predict perfectly around slowbro in order to beat it. Youre really overrating both of these mons, infernape's frailty really holds it back as it makes it very easy to revenge kill by scarfers and extreme speed users and the scarf set, which dont quite have the punch to ohko everything, will die to anything it fails to beat in one hit. Blissey has massive problems with every single physical attacker and even some special attackers can get around her like alakazam, porygon-z, mega houndoom etc. and its VERY easy to lure in with a surprise physical attack and 2hko it like hydreigon and nidoking's superpower. Neither of these pokemon are one step above the rest of the meta to be placed in S, they have obvious flaws and face massive problems with many common pokemon.
Restating this argument again. Even after the drops, I'd still give Blissey a solid A. I'm refraining from saying it's an A+ simply because of how offensively paced UU is right now. Stall is still viable, and Blissey makes it more so, but it still ends up being massive set-up bait. I've heard a lot of arguments about how Toxic (not regular poison) or Thunder Wave deters Pokemon from setting up. As EonX stated regarding Toxic Stall in RU (basically Normal Poison vs. Toxic Poison, link here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-over-hello-kitty.3508302/page-8#post-5522027), Offensive teams could care less about Toxic and will just the opportunity to set up. Thunder Wave falls under the same issue. Even if the set-up mon gets T-Waved during set-up, it doesn't stop it from still doing massive damage to Blissey or anything that Blissey decides to switch into, and if that Pokemon has Lum Berry, then gg. Thunder Wave is crippling towards late-game, but during the early- or mid-game where you have other sweepers/wallbreakers to rely on, it's less of an issue. If you're running neither and just use Heal Bell/Aromatherapy, your Blissey becomes even weaker than Status-running Blisseys. To top it off, Blissey has the worst damage option in the form of Seismic Toss. Offensive Pokemon could give less of a shit about Seismic Toss due to its flat damage. It's good to speed up Stalling, but terrible in dealing with Offense. Pokemon like Umbreon and Florges (which essentially do the same things as Blissey) can actually pressure and hurt offensive threats. Florges has a high Special Attack and a reliable Base 90 STAB, and Umbreon has a Base 95 STAB that fucks over anything physical, regardless whether it resists Foul Play or not. Now with the drop of Staraptor, the meta is undoubtedly going to be extremely offensive and running something like Blissey is more of a liability. This is not to say that Blissey is entirely bad. Blissey is very good on stall and pretty much made PinkCore even stronger than before, but alas the rankings are relative to the meta, and right now Stall isn't as strong even with Blissey. Thus, Blissey is a fair A.
Yeah forget what I said about A+ anywhere in A rank is perfect for it IMO. The definition says it must have notable flaws, and that fits perfectly. Under that pretense alone Blissey deserves A at the most.
Blissey needs to be A+ IMO. It has an awesome support movepool, insanely huge wishes and awesome sp.defence. The only reason this thing isn't S is because of its piss poor defence so it needs to be backed up by a physical wall. This thing has evolved the meta and every team needs a very good check (check is not enough IMO) to blissey. It has suge a huge affect on the meta and is so good at what it does, its perfect in A+.
I think blissey is B+/A- due to the fact that it can become setup bait for dangerous sweepers. As somebody said before, if an opponents sweeper has lum berry, then it just put your whooe team in range of being swept. While very good, i think fairy is an awesome defensive typing since fighting, dark and dragon attacks are typically physical. Yes it gives huge wishes, but it loses to shao and hera who are A+ and darm and honch who are A ranked.
" are setup bait for dangerous sweepers" is how b ranked states...
Infernape for A+ its very versatile like mew and victini (S rank and A+ rank, respectively). It can beat most physical and special walls especially with the mixed set. Its speed tier is great also. The thing that holds it back is its frailty which mew, hydra and slowbro have great bulk and typings.
" are setup bait for dangerous sweepers" is how b ranked states...
Infernape for A+ its very versatile like mew and victini (S rank and A+ rank, respectively). It can beat most physical and special walls especially with the mixed set. Its speed tier is great also. The thing that holds it back is its frailty which mew, hydra and slowbro have great bulk and typings.
Blissey for A-rank
while blissey is a very good cleric and godly special wall, it does have trouble with all the fighting types dominating the tier right now. this mean it has the flaw of needing teammates like slowbro or phys def florges to take them one but it can still manage to keep up by walling Ampharos mega houndoom and the nidos.
while blissey is a very good cleric and godly special wall, it does have trouble with all the fighting types dominating the tier right now. this mean it has the flaw of needing teammates like slowbro or phys def florges to take them one but it can still manage to keep up by walling Ampharos mega houndoom and the nidos.
And I think Infernape for A+ rank
It lacs a lot of power in some situations and it's checked/countered by a lot of common pokemon in UU like Scarf Chandelure, Slowbro(if no grass knot), Scarf Victini and mega aerodactyl. Florges can even check non-banded versions. However, the fact that it can so many sets makes it versatile as fuck:
The offensive pressure that Infernape applies by being so unpredictable make it imo eligible for A+rank.
It lacs a lot of power in some situations and it's checked/countered by a lot of common pokemon in UU like Scarf Chandelure, Slowbro(if no grass knot), Scarf Victini and mega aerodactyl. Florges can even check non-banded versions. However, the fact that it can so many sets makes it versatile as fuck:
- Mixape
- SDape
- NPape
- CBape
- CSape
The offensive pressure that Infernape applies by being so unpredictable make it imo eligible for A+rank.
Ape is really good because, as Kushalos said, it is a versatile threat which is very difficult to switch into if your opponent has good prediction. Sadly, most of that potential is not used, because basically the ONLY set I see is the Scarf one, which is not nearly as scary as Life Orb (IMO). But still, switching blindly is really hard, because you don't know what's coming at you.
That's overrating ape HUGELY. One of two viable physical attackers in the tier? Careful what you say, Darmanitan Heracross Victini Honchkrow Toxicroak Stoutland Sharpedo Doublade Lucario Mienshao Absol Crobat Cloyster Krookodile Snorlax might get a little angry. Also, it can take on special walls? Well, there are pretty much two common ones (Blissey and Florges) and Florges can beat both the mixed LO set and the Scarf set locked in on CC.
Guess you didn't read carefully. "that can take on special walls and is immun to burn.", from the 'mons you listed only Darmanitan and Guts Herracross are immun to burn. And I didn't mean to say that all physical attackers are unviable.
And you justify Florges walling Infernape by saying it is locked into CC while that can apply to anything like "Hydreigon is helpless against Chandelure when it is locked into Superpower".
Don't forget lead ape as well
I wouldn't bring up being locked into CC if it didn't happen so often, because that is Ape's most spammable move. Superpower is pretty much never run on Scarf or Specs Hydreigon, so that is kind of a bad example.
Also, Special Walls usually don't burn you. If you want to duke it out with special walls, Toxic is the condition you have to worry about.
Against
With Darmanitan, it initially outdamages Infernape in every way possible. What holds it back though is (1)lacking speed, (2)susceptibility to Stealth Rock, (3)and its one-dimensionality all of which Infernape doesn't have compensating for its lack of firepower. (1)108 is a very good Speed tier, unboosted or not, allowing it to outpace common Scarfers up to the most relevant one to be mentioned who is Mienshao. (2)More than that, Fire/Fighting is a convenient typing for granting neutrality to SR and being a solid STAB combination overall. (3)This coupled with a great mixed offensive stats and wide movepool, it can break down defensive cores more efficiently. To add on that, it has many more things to work with making it more unpredictable compared to Darmanitan.
For those reasons...
Verdict:
>
but not completely outclassed
For those reasons...
Verdict:
How does Infernape fare in A ranking overall?
Great, even better. Infernape has great mixed wallbreaking prowess and unpredictability that sets it above the rest of the Pokemon there. It can run many sets without it being horribly outclassed.
- - -
Against
This is an interesting case. Victini is a nuke yet at the same time, has the right amount of tools to run many different sets (which is one of the main things that set it apart with Darmanitan). Same case with Infernape but minus the "nuke" part but with better versatility. I guess it all comes down to preference and how it fits to your team (but then again, this can be said for many Pokemon with similar roles)
For thosevague reasons...
Verdict:
≤
with a heavy emphasis to equal
For those
Verdict:
How does Infernape fare in A+ ranking overall?
(Fitting. "Infernape has great mixed wallbreaking prowess and unpredictability" allowing it to run a multitude of sets to great effect) IMO, what's holding it back from being an S-tier Pokemon is frailty and lack of immediate power.
Oh, and if it's not obvious enough, I think Infernape should be A+ as with most have had said.
Last edited:
Yeah I'm going to support all of the sentiments to put Infernape in A+ Rank. It's a really good breaker, using its awesome coverage and mixed attacking prowess to pester walls and its high Speed also makes it really good against offense. Infernape is also pretty versatile and can do a lot ranging from a mixed attacker to a setup sweeper or even a Choice user. Everyone has already stated my stance on this thing so I don't feel as if I need to say much more.
I haven't used or faced Blissey at all but somewhere in A Rank seems like a fine spot for it. It's a good special wall that can handle a lot of threats and provide team support in Wish, Aromatherapy, and rocks. If Florges and Umbreon are in A Rank, this thing is an easy A.
On another topic, and this isn't up for discussion, but I'd really like to question Malamar's placement on the list. I just don't see why anyone would want to use this on a serious team. It has a terrible defensive typing, with pretty much no resistances at all and a terrible weakness to Bug, which leaves it wrecked by both U-turn and Heracross, as well as Fairy, which Florges and even lesser used ones like Aromatisse and Slurpuff can take advantage of. Malamar's stats are also really lackluster. None of its base stats exceed 100, and its highest one, Attack, is barely above base 90. Malamar relies on Contrary Superpower to get going, and it is too slow to actually sweep. Its bad defensive typing and mediocre stats make it hard for Malamar to accomplish much at all, and it requires an absolutely insane amount of support to succeed. Malamar just winds up being an incredible liability on most teams and is not worth the support.
All in all, I don't think Malamar deserves a spot on this list. It's much more of a liability than it's worth, and is just an incredibly flawed Pokemon that doesn't have a significant niche in UU.
I haven't used or faced Blissey at all but somewhere in A Rank seems like a fine spot for it. It's a good special wall that can handle a lot of threats and provide team support in Wish, Aromatherapy, and rocks. If Florges and Umbreon are in A Rank, this thing is an easy A.
On another topic, and this isn't up for discussion, but I'd really like to question Malamar's placement on the list. I just don't see why anyone would want to use this on a serious team. It has a terrible defensive typing, with pretty much no resistances at all and a terrible weakness to Bug, which leaves it wrecked by both U-turn and Heracross, as well as Fairy, which Florges and even lesser used ones like Aromatisse and Slurpuff can take advantage of. Malamar's stats are also really lackluster. None of its base stats exceed 100, and its highest one, Attack, is barely above base 90. Malamar relies on Contrary Superpower to get going, and it is too slow to actually sweep. Its bad defensive typing and mediocre stats make it hard for Malamar to accomplish much at all, and it requires an absolutely insane amount of support to succeed. Malamar just winds up being an incredible liability on most teams and is not worth the support.
All in all, I don't think Malamar deserves a spot on this list. It's much more of a liability than it's worth, and is just an incredibly flawed Pokemon that doesn't have a significant niche in UU.
- Status