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XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

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Right then, time to talk about these Ground-types.

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Flygon (A-) -> B | Meru has already listed most reasons why Flygon should drop, but I'd like to add a few things. First of all, Flygon has the niche of being a Levitating, SR-resistant Defogger, but there's almost no other reason to use Flygon over Hydreigon. Flygon's 100 Attack is just disappointing compared to the myriad of physical powerhouses such as Heracross, Honchkrow or Lucario. As a mixed attacker, Flygon is outperformed by Infernape and, again, Hydreigon, who even sports superior bulk in 92/90/90 compared to Flygon's 80/80/80. Despite being a few points faster than Hydreigon, it's a vastly inferior Scarfer simply due to being unable to really hit hard. 100 Attack just doesn't cut it. Being a physical attacker, it's also highly susceptible to being burned, which makes it complete deadweight.
Overall, I feel like Flygon is really underwhelming as a whole and I really don't see it being in the same rank as things like Azelf, Roserade and the freaking Nidos. Flygon for B.

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Hippowdon (A-) -> Remain A- | Kind of torn on this one. Hippowdon's a fantastic mixed and physical wall, but the reason why I'm not sure this thing should rise is simply the hostility of the UU metagame towards it. OU is a much more welcome territory for Hippowdon, but in UU it can still definitely pull its weight. Its 108/118/72 bulk is simply gigantic, especially on the physical side, which is what mainly allows Hippowdon to be so effective as a mixed wall. Ground-type STAB in Earthquake backed up by 112 Attack is pretty darn good and with Stone Edge or Ice Fang for coverage, Hippowdon is able to check most Pokémon that attempt to stand in its way. Sadly, the large myriad of Water- and Grass-types in UU ruin Hippowdon's walling potential, Slowbro being the prime example, as it's able to tank all those Earthquakes and just Slack Off all the damage, but repeated Crunches can drop Slowbro's Defense, so it's gotta be careful around those. Suicune can similarly take everything Hippowdon throws at it and offensive variants just OHKO with Hydro Pump. All Water-types (except Alomomola) can hit hard with Scald and burn it, while Roserade can just Grass Knot Hippowdon at its leisure. Roserade needs to watch the fuck out for Earthquake with its poor physical bulk, though.
In short, Hippowdon does have its shortcomings, but it's got a way around most of 'em and it's still as solid a wall as ever before. Keep Hippowdon in A-.
 
Though tbh, Flygon has an interesting niche of a Levitating Defogger that resists Stealth Rock. Although its traditional sets are highly impractical or outclassed, the Defogger set has a substantial niche and should be considered as a supportive threat rather than an offensive one.

EDIT: fucking Galaxy Note fatfingering
 
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Yeah Flygon's only real niche is Defogging. Its offensive sets are just outclassed or not good enough (scarf Flygon revenge KOs Hydreigon but Hydreigon is better at everything else). B rankbis probably the best fit for it.

Hippowdon should stay where it is. It's a reliable Stealth Rock setter, can phaze with Whirlwind, has reliable recovery, and a decent typing for walling physical attackers. I personally do not have much experience with it but from what I've seen it's about A-.
 
Kyuzeth said:
Right then, time to talk about these Ground-types.

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Flygon (A-) -> B | Meru has already listed most reasons why Flygon should drop, but I'd like to add a few things. First of all, Flygon has the niche of being a Levitating, SR-resistant Defogger, but there's almost no other reason to use Flygon over Hydreigon. Flygon's 100 Attack is just disappointing compared to the myriad of physical powerhouses such as Heracross, Honchkrow or Lucario. As a mixed attacker, Flygon is outperformed by Infernape and, again, Hydreigon, who even sports superior bulk in 92/90/90 compared to Flygon's 80/80/80. Despite being a few points faster than Hydreigon, it's a vastly inferior Scarfer simply due to being unable to really hit hard. 100 Attack just doesn't cut it. Being a physical attacker, it's also highly susceptible to being burned, which makes it complete deadweight.
Overall, I feel like Flygon is really underwhelming as a whole and I really don't see it being in the same rank as things like Azelf, Roserade and the freaking Nidos. Flygon for B.

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Hippowdon (A-) -> Remain A- | Kind of torn on this one. Hippowdon's a fantastic mixed and physical wall, but the reason why I'm not sure this thing should rise is simply the hostility of the UU metagame towards it. OU is a much more welcome territory for Hippowdon, but in UU it can still definitely pull its weight. Its 108/118/72 bulk is simply gigantic, especially on the physical side, which is what mainly allows Hippowdon to be so effective as a mixed wall. Ground-type STAB in Earthquake backed up by 112 Attack is pretty darn good and with Stone Edge or Ice Fang for coverage, Hippowdon is able to check most Pokémon that attempt to stand in its way. Sadly, the large myriad of Water- and Grass-types in UU ruin Hippowdon's walling potential, Slowbro being the prime example, as it's able to tank all those Earthquakes and just Slack Off all the damage, but repeated Crunches can drop Slowbro's Defense, so it's gotta be careful around those. Suicune can similarly take everything Hippowdon throws at it and offensive variants just OHKO with Hydro Pump. All Water-types (except Alomomola) can hit hard with Scald and burn it, while Roserade can just Grass Knot Hippowdon at its leisure. Roserade needs to watch the fuck out for Earthquake with its poor physical bulk, though.
In short, Hippowdon does have its shortcomings, but it's got a way around most of 'em and it's still as solid a wall as ever before. Keep Hippowdon in A-.
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Perfect.

Flygon is moving down to B rank, while Hippowdon is staying at A- rank. The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Jirachi and Krookodile.
 
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Krookodile is a solid A- rank and I love how it's being used more often nowadays. IMO it's not just its Moxie Scarf set or its Defensive set that makes it a persistent threat, but also its [Intimidate] Band set that, quite frankly, causes a ton of havoc against many teams. 92 Base Speed may not be great in this meta, but being able to outspeed Rose and potentially halting a SD Lucario sweep (as long as Luke is only at +2) is something not many other 'mons can boast. Although it's not hitting anywhere near as hard as Heracross (or as potent as Cross for that matter), there's certainly no doubting what kinds of damage Krookodile can cause with its set of moves that can dent most of this current metagame. It's definitely on the level of the A- 'mons at this point.
 
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Hmm.

Jirachi does have some cool things going for it, but the weaknesses it has really suck in a meta filled with things like Infernape, Hydreigon, and Mega Absol running everywhere. This is especially the case with Knock Off. That said, it's pretty versatile, and all of its sets are pretty annoying in one way or another. Scarf Jirachi is a pretty good revenge killer that is a little faster than Hydreigon, which is a pretty good benchmark to hit, and the high flinch chance of Iron Head compensates for its lack of power. Jirachi can be used in a ton of effective ways beyond Scarf, such as SubCM, Specially Defensive Paraflinch, SubToxic, and Mixed. Jirachi is arguably really versatile, although its weaknesses hold it back from being truly top tier. A- would be fine for it at the very least, although I wouldn't mind if it moved a little.

As for Krookodile, it's pretty good imo. The Scarf set is pretty great, as although it's slower than Hydreigon it has a really good STAB combo and Moxie to stand out. Having a STAB Knock Off is pretty awesome too, so Krookodile can mess around with switch-ins early game, while late-game it can sweep weakened teams thanks to its coverage and the "snowball effect" from Moxie making it stronger with each KO. That's not all there really is to running Krook, as a bulky SR support set is totally viable as well, being able to make use of Intimidate to take on some attackers like Mega Aero and be able to provide support in SR and Taunt; the latter is really nice to have too. A LO or CB set could be used as a decent wallbreaker too, as it can freely utilize its STABs and hit hard, and again, Knock Off is really neat. A- is the lowest it should be imo, and I wouldn't mind if it moves up to A.
 
More Ground-types! And a cutemon, too! This should be a fun little talk.

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Krookodile (A-) -> A | Krookodile has integrated itself very well into XY UU because of some notable traits. To start, Krookodile has a fantastic Ground/Dark-type, an offensively monstrous typing that's almost unresisted on its own, on top of making it immune to Thunder Wave and resistant to SR. Good ol' Earthquake wrecks the many Fire-types in UU including Infernape, Victini, Darmanitan and Mega Houndoom, while sniping Steel- and Electric-types as well, those including Raikou, Aggron, Magneton and the omnipresent Lucario. Knock Off is another key to Krookodile's success, as not a single Pokémon likes being crippled by having their precious item removed: Blissey loses its Lefties, Luke and Ape lose their LO or Choice item... Knock Off just fucks so much over it's insane and in conjunction with Earthquake, Krookodile can hit everything it needs. Its access to Pursuit means it can even trap opposing Pokémon and hit them with a 120 BP move when they switch. Its two main Abilities, Intimidate and Moxie, both have their uses on sets: Intimidate makes defensive Krookodile a seriously good physical tank and 95 HP/80 Def with Intimidate gives it enough bulk to set up SR safely. It's one of the few SR setters with access to Taunt, too, so it can stop clerics and opposing walls in their tracks and subsequently Knock Off their items. Choice Band sets with Intimidate grant Krookodile ample opportunities to switch in and wreak havoc. Lastly, Moxie makes Krook a snowball sweeper that keeps on boosting its own Attack with every KO it achieves. If you're REALLY power-hungry, there's still the riskier Band Moxie.
Sadly, as with every great thing, Krookodile isn't perfect. It has several glaring weaknesses, most notably to Water, which proves problematic in a tier full of Water-types. Ironically, it can handle Slowbro quite well thanks to STAB Knock Off. Its Grass- and Fighting-type weaknesses are a problem, too, but again, most Pokémon of these types can't switch into Krookodile safely, as Roserade is physically frail as shit and both Ape and Luke are weak to Earthquake. Nevertheless, Krookodile is an incredibly solid Pokémon in the UU tier and a highly underrated threat that should be prepared for at all times. Krookodile for A.

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Jirachi (A-) -> B+ | Cutemon got nerfed. :c Now to get serious, Jirachi definitely underwent a big nerf in the Generation transition and some of the new drops haven't been making its life easy in UU. Jirachi's Steel/Psychic-type is far from the greatness it used to be last Generation, but it's still got some nice STABs to work with. Serene Grace complements its expansive movepool greatly, as it can use Body Slam and STAB Iron Head to paraflinch slower opponents to death or it can wear a Choice Scarf and Iron Head its opponents until they faint after repeated flinches. It's got fantastic coverage to boot and boasts a useful resistance to Stealth Rock, but that's where the good stuff ends.
The new Dark- and Ghost-type weaknesses hurt Jirachi badly and due to its overall reliance on its item to work, it's ridiculously susceptible to Knock Off. Its Fire-type weakness is an even bigger hurdle in its path due to the large myriad of dangerous Fire-types in the tier, most notably Victini, Infernape, Darmanitan and Mega Houndoom. Lastly, Jirachi may have a huge movepool, but most of its physical coverage is quite lacking in power and as a result, it suffers from an average damage output, as with the recently dropped Flygon (they have the same Attack, even). All in all, Jirachi's still a good Pokémon, but far from what it used to be. Jirachi for B+.

EDIT: I've read up on how useful SubToxic Jirachi is after seeing others recommend it here, so I've changed my mind: keep Jirachi at A-.
 
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i dont think umbreon is so shit that it should be moved to b-; it has the niche of being the only wishpasser that beats chandy who just happens to be one of the most popular things in the current meta. it also has access to bp, which can be a pretty good pivot move to use when wishpassing.

also LOL people actually think rachi should be B+... if anything it should be moved up just on the basis of its subtoxic set. it has very few counters in the current meta, due to the fact that its one of the best things vs stall and balance to an extent, and the mons that do counter it (non-defog gligar, empoleon, cune, queen), are all checked by mega stoise barring cune, who isn't exactly the most difficult thing to prepare for lol.
 
Bouffalant said:
i dont think umbreon is so shit that it should be moved to b-; it has the niche of being the only wishpasser that beats chandy who just happens to be one of the most popular things in the current meta. it also has access to bp, which can be a pretty good pivot move to use when wishpassing.

also LOL people actually think rachi should be B+... if anything it should be moved up just on the basis of its subtoxic set. it has very few counters in the current meta, due to the fact that its one of the best things vs stall and balance to an extent, and the mons that do counter it (non-defog gligar, empoleon, cune, queen), are all checked by mega stoise barring cune, who isn't exactly the most difficult thing to prepare for lol.
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Not to also mention Foul Play does a decent amount to a lot of the top tier threats.

Seems like no one reads Koko's post in the NP thread regarding SubToxic Rachi.
 
I haven't seen Krookodile be used a lot except in high-skill level matches, and it does extremely well from the looks of it. It boasts the ability to possibly stop a Lucario sweep (With Intimidate drop+Earthquake), and its versatility in options between a bulky intimidate sr support set, Banded Intimidate, and Scarfed Moxie, along with great moves such as Stealth Rock, Knock Off, Taunt, and a great typing in Ground/Dark, I wouldn't be suprised if Krook moved up to A imo. But it's fine where it is.
Krookodile can be a great addition to many teams, and should be considered for the all powerful spot of a dark resist on uu teams. Krookodile for staying at A- or moving up to A.
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Krookodile: 182-214 (54.8 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 408-480 (145.1 - 170.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 246-289 (34.4 - 40.4%) -- 45.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Defiantly drop Kyurem a level or two, with Blissey in existence special-wallbreakers aren't that useful. Not to mention Infernape is a nice check.
 
0- Atk Life Orb Kyurem Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 343-406 (48 - 56.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse: 211-250 (51.9 - 61.5%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem: 222-264 (56.7 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not really, Kyurem can afford to run Outrage and wallbreaks pretty well, as Aromatisse can't just switch into an Outrage as it gets 2hko'd by Ice Beam promptly (I guess Gligar/Slowbro can still cause issues tho). If anything the decline of Florges usage really helps Kyurem in his wallbreaking ability, faster fighting types always check him (aka Mienshao) and tbh Hydreigon is the main reason why Kyurem isn't usage as much. I think it belongs to A- as a wallbreaker that has enough versatility to break some of its normal checks but can't cover them all, in a similar fashion to Nidoking.
 
I'd consider running Hasty on mixed Kyurem. You're already not taking physical hits, but this helps you net a cleaner 2HKO against Blissey that carry Protect.
 
While Nidoqueen gained a counter in Blissey, she ironically also got a wonderful counterpart in Blissey. Blissey as a teammate means Nidoqueen can finally run her tried and true defensive set without not fearing the hell out of her spouse thanks to Blissey being the best Nidoking counter in the entire game of Pokemon. In return, Nidoqueen checks/walls Heracross, Lucario, and Mienshao, all very dangerous threats to Blissey. Blissey isn't the only partner that goes well with Nidoqueen, as pretty much any bulky Water-type synergizes well with her. Slowbro, Suicune, and Alomomola all have various merits as Nidoqueen's teammate, and are able to keep CB Victini at bay, which is one of the few Physical attackers that outright destroy Nidoqueen. On the other side of things, Nidoqueen is able to shut down CB Hera, which is currently being used by a lot of offensive teams as a way to force out bulky waters.

Nidoqueen's defensive set stands out as one of the better Stealth Rock setters in this meta. Thanks to her unique use of Special attacks, she can beat a few Stealth Rock setters like Maggron and Forry and even quite a few Defoggers such as MAero, Crobat and Empoleon. In fact, she's definitely one of the better MAero checks we've got, and in this meta, every team can use as many MAero checks as they can get their hands on.

However, Mew is still the best Defogger in the tier, and is probably Nidoqueen's biggest archenemy. In addition, Nidoqueen fares mediocrely against all of the other drops, especially Alakazam, and doesn't appreciate a couple of the viability shifts, such as the resurgence of Crocune and CB Victini. Ultimately she should probably stay where she is at A-

EDIT: Why is Shaymin in B+ now? o.o
 
And unlike Rachi, it doesn't need to run max HP to wreck Blissey due to Leech Seed + Lefties recovering more than what it loses with Sub o.O It might need 252 to reliably beat her (because SToss has more PP than Sub), but since Bliss will be forced to Softboiled at a point, you can alternate between Sub and Flare to scout for drops
 
Eduardo2013 said:
Well infiltrator crobat and noivern really give that sub seed set problems since both have access to taunt and scare Shaymin out quite easily.
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im not sure why exactly would you bother to sub seed on a crobat to begin with: the risk of it being infiltrator is too big.

but even so it means that shaymin has effectively done its job of getting blissey off the field.
 
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Kyurem should drop to B(-) rank; I honestly feel really fking awful for this ice dragon at this stage of the metagame and only until now have I failed to truly understand why players aren't using this any more often than 'mons in ranks below it. Although Kyurem doesn't have many problems breaking through the tier with its great mixed coverage (maybe LO mixed w/Outrage or something is its best set atm, I dunno), it's just really hard to build a successful team around Kyurem, as its poor defensive synergy with much of the tier restricts it way more than it has been in the past, especially due to the arising of the new threats that can effectively screw it over.
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Nidoqueen on the other hand continues to hold a solid presence in this tier and should be A(-) rank. It's really comparable to Roserade, as it sports the ability to lay some hazards while presenting a great deal of offensive presence. Although it cannot dispatch bulky waters as effectively nor be able to put opponents to sleep, its ability to effectively check Fighting-type threats (especially Lucario!) due to its greater Physical bulk as well as its ability to beat the spinners/defoggers bar Mega Blastoise.
Now as of whether or not it's as good as or even better than Nidoking in this current metagame, I believe it is now a solid "yes". Before the drops happened, it was made clear that Nidoking's superior wallbreaking power (due to its speed) was more useful than Nidoqueen's defensive utility since nothing could completely counter Nidoking aside from SpD Mew; however, I feel that these two differences have swapped with each other in terms of usefulness as Nidoking's wallbreaking power has been hindered by Blissey's presence in this tier while Nidoqueen has the option to continue setting up hazards in Blissey's face, something Nidoking at times cannot afford to do due to its role.
 
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Nidoqueen and Nidoking will be dropping to B+ rank, while Kyurem is moving down to B rank.

The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Porygon-Z and Raikou.
 
Limitless said:
Nidoqueen and Nidoking will be dropping to B+ rank, while Kyurem is moving down to B rank.

The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Porygon-Z and Raikou.
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Although I'm fine with B+ or A- either way for Queen, I wanna say that Blissey's presence is actually good for Queen, since Bliss can either pass Wishes (obviously, but that isn't that big of a plus since other mons can do that too) or more importantly, set up SR freeing up a Queen moveslot for T-Spikes—which, mind you, are as good as ever currently. Additionally, Queen can use opposing Bliss as setup bait for said T-Spikes.

I'm not saying that alone makes Queen better than King (although King does have bigger problems now, because it struggles to fit both Superpower and Megahorn to break pink cores), but it's certainly worth mentioning, imo.
 
Analyzing cyberduck...

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Porygon-Z (A-) -> A | Porygon-Z is a fucking monster in XY UU; not even the new drops can hope to stop it. Let's go over the positives. For starters, thanks to the Steel-type nerf, Porygon-Z can now hit everything relevant in UU neutrally with Shadow Ball and STAB Tri Attack. Secondly, all of its Abilities have their uses: Adaptability makes Tri Attack a complete nuke, Analytic severely punishes Pokémon switching in on Porygon-Z and lastly, Download gives Porygon-Z a chance to get a free Choice Specs boost if the opponent's Defense exceeds their Special Defense. Lastly, it has two fantastic boosting moves in Agility, which turns it into a lethal sweeper, as well as Nasty Plot, making it a scarily powerful special wallbreaker. Due to the aforementioned coverage, Porygon-Z can even run a Double Booster set that allows the player to boost depending on what's necessary: Agility for speedier teams and Nasty Plot for slower and defensive teams. Of course, if you have the chance, just get both in and nuke your opponent's team. On top of all of this, Porygon-Z is ridiculously hard to switch in onto, as nothing likes to take that massive Tri Attack coming from an explosive 135 Special Attack; considering Porygon-Z usually runs Modest, that makes it even scarier. If a special attacker can 2HKO Blissey, you know it's some lethal shit.
Sadly, Porygon-Z's Normal-type makes it decidedly average defensively. Its 85/75/75 bulk doesn't make it terribly resilient and it's susceptible to priority, including top threat Infernape's Mach Punch. Scarfers also revenge kill cyburd pretty easily, as 90 Speed, while good, isn't quite great. Nevertheless, Porygon-Z is a devastating special attacker in XY UU and should definitely always be prepared for. Porygon-Z for A.
 
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