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XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

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azelf should stay at a-. It's pretty much the face of hyper offense, being the best suicide lead in the tier, outspeeding a large portion of offensive threats, preventing opposing hazards from being set up with taunt, and crippling a lot of the tier with knock off, and it's immensely easy to keep its hazards up due to Explosion, letting it switch into common spinners like Stoise or Donphan with a check, such as Shaymin. however, the reason it shouldn't be A is because the things that do manage to outspeed it fuck it entirely. sashzam can check it with shadow ball, and with the popularity of mega aerodactyl, which just happens to be one of the biggest fuck yous to HO in the tier and can pretty much rape azelf in any shape or form (unless you're a retard and running 4 attacks dactyl, in which case you're doing it wrong). there's also the fact that fast taunt is p popular in the current meta, with things like the aformentioned dactyl, crobat, and /especially/ that fucking (BAN ME PLEASE) sableye, you're forced to counterlead them and hope you can somehow get rocks up later in the match.
 
Mega Blastoise Should Be A Rank at best imo, Its Certainly the best offensive spinner in the whole UU tier maybe even prehaps the best spinner in the tier, mega blastoise's bulk is also very good and can revenge kill alot of pokemon that can 2hko blastoise like for example: heracross, hydreigon, mienshao, etc and sometimes mega blastoise can counter some pokemon in the uu tier like flygon, alakazham, rhyperior, mega aggron and sharpedo (unless SR) on the down side tho mega blastoise lacks recovery and speed which is pretty hurtful on blastoise and it gets walled from pokemon like blissey and florges, also despite great bulk it can't counter some pokemon so u need to make sure that mega blastoise can revenge kill it

So Best Offensive Rapid Spinner, Can Easily Revenge Kill, Great Bulk To Live 2 Hits Most Of Time And Can Beat Spin Blockers (+)

Gets Specially Walled From Pokes Like Blissey and Florges, Average Speed Tier, Can't Counter Pokemon If They 2HKO and Outspeeds Mega Blastoise (-).

Hope I Explained it well :)
 
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Azelf should stay an A- rank, on the basis of its lead set alone. bouff's post explains why.
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Mega Blastoise should be A-/A rank. Its ability to cover a vast portion of this metagame while being able to stomach a strong blow and spin hazards away can definitely mean a lot to a team, especially if it doesn't have many other convenient ways of dealing with the plethora of offensive threats in this tier. IMO It fits on many teams pretty well as opposed to many of the other 'mons in A- rank but the support it needs in order to check things on a consistent basis, whether it's Wish support or whatever, has certainly not changed in the favor of Mega Blastoise and having Blissey in this tier certainly doesn't help its cause.
 
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dingbat said:
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Azelf should stay an A- rank, on the basis of its lead set alone. bouff's post explains why.
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Mega Blastoise should be A-/A rank. Its ability to cover a vast portion of this metagame while being able to stomach a strong blow and spin hazards away can definitely mean a lot to a team, especially if it doesn't have many other convenient ways of dealing with the plethora of offensive threats in this tier. IMO It fits on many teams pretty well as opposed to many of the other 'mons in A- rank but the support it needs in order to check things on a consistent basis, whether it's Wish support or whatever, has certainly not changed in the favor of Mega Blastoise and having Blissey in this tier certainly doesn't help its cause.
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Good.

Azelf is staying in A- rank, while Mega Blastoise is moving up to A rank. I'm also moving Umbreon down to B rank.

The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Celebi and Cloyster.
 
Cloyster: A-

June drop kind of helped Cloyster and not helped Cloyster at the same time. With stall becoming a stronger prescence in the metagame, Cloyster gets more set-up opportunities. Conversely, Cloyster, unlike the tier's other set-up sweepers, is extremely set-up reliant and pretty much useless without a Shell Smash boost. Offensively oriented teams and even some balance teams can put enough pressure to prevent it from ever setting up. That said, after a Shell Smash, Cloyster is near impossible to stop. After Shell Smash, 252 +Spe Cloyster beats out ScarfApe, which sits at 519. This essentially means that Cloyster is damn near impossible to revenge kill outside of priority Even Alakazam can't revenge kill it because of Icicle Spear's mjlti-hits. As most good Cloysters run King's Rock. +2 Cloyster has a 40% chance of flinching past its counters. He's okay, but extremely one dkmensional to a point where Cloyster's set is 100% predictable and has well-established methods of shutting it down. In fact, I'd vote it to B+ if it wasn't for the fact that it's such a hard snowball to stop.
 
Honestly, cloyster should move to A. With stall being as strong as ever, this thing gets a tone of set up opportunities. It can set up on things like a napes close combat or even a scarf darms flare blitz. LOts of teams also rely on sash zam as their rkiller, which straight up loses to cloyster. The drops really benefited it and it is a nightmare to face.

Also, celebi isn't that great, not going to go into it, but B seems good for it.
 
252 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 204-240 (84.2 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
76 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 170-204 (70.2 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
76 Atk Iron Fist Infernape Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 68-84 (28 - 34.7%) -- 3.2% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Iron Fist Infernape Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 84-98 (34.7 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
180 SpA Infernape Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 321-378 (132.6 - 156.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
180 SpA Infernape Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 271-319 (111.9 - 131.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 160-190 (66.1 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If someone can spoiler the calcs, that would be great. Spoilers or anything else for that matter seems to not work on proxy browsers.
Anyway, grassycow, Cloyster has zero set-up opportunities against offensive threats. Fighting and Fire are two of the biggest offensive threats in UU right now, and Cloyster melts to them, even with a 180 Def. Factor in hazard weakness, and a lot of those fringe 2HKOs become OHKOs. This is not diminishing the fact that Cloyster is a deadly sweeper. The fact is that Cloyster needs critical team support, such as lures to create the limited set-up opportunities it has as well as a spinner that can get rid of hazards. It needs quite a bit of team support to function properly. However, after a boost it fucking decimates the metagame. It fits the definition of A undoubtedly, though it requires more help getting that set-up than other set-up sweepers, so A- is pretty much justified. Like I said before, it should be made clear that Cloyster is useless without a Shell Smash boost.
 
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I have not seen Celebi in a long time because of Tornadus-T ofc. Although its presence in this metagame was severely masked due to the nagging Fire/Dark (hell, even bug) weaknesses it has, I feel that Celebi still has some (untapped) potential in its Swords Dance/Nasty Plot Baton Pass sets, as it can capably set up against stall oriented 'mons and proceed to either cause some significant damage o the opposing side or tag along it's boosts to a teammate. IMO it should not drop any lower than B+ rank for now but we'll see what happens in the near future.
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Cloyster should be in A-/B+ rank. IMO its mixed set with Icicle Spear, Hydro Pump, and Rock Blast is one of the most potent things lategame, as it can get past physical walls like Mega Aggron but of course, that's all under the condition that it gets the Shell Smash boost, which is what definitely prevents this from going any higher than A- rank. The amount of support Cloyster needs in order to pull off its role as a sweeper/cleaner is much more tremendous compared to other A- 'mons in this tier as hazards, fast threats, and status runs real rampant in this metagame, but once Cloyster gets that one Shell Smash boost and the threats it cannot quickly dispatch (Suicune/Mega Blastoise/Slowbro/'Rachi/etc.) are gone, it is truly hard to stop, and even more so if it has a Life Orb.
 
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dingbat said:
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I have not seen Celebi in a long time because of Tornadus-T ofc. Although its presence in this metagame was severely masked due to the nagging Fire/Dark (hell, even bug) weaknesses it has, I feel that Celebi still has some (untapped) potential in its Swords Dance/Nasty Plot Baton Pass sets, as it can capably set up against stall oriented 'mons and proceed to either cause some significant damage o the opposing side or tag along it's boosts to a teammate. IMO it should not drop any lower than B+ rank for now but we'll see what happens in the near future.
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Cloyster should be in A-/B+ rank. IMO its mixed set with Icicle Spear, Hydro Pump, and Rock Blast is one of the most potent things lategame, as it can get past physical walls like Mega Aggron but of course, that's all under the condition that it gets the Shell Smash boost, which is what definitely prevents this from going any higher than A- rank. The amount of support Cloyster needs in order to pull off its role as a sweeper/cleaner is much more tremendous compared to other A- 'mons in this tier as hazards, fast threats, and status runs real rampant in this metagame, but once Cloyster gets that one Shell Smash boost and the threats it cannot quickly dispatch (Suicune/Mega Blastoise/Slowbro/'Rachi) are gone, it is truly hard to stop, and even more so if it has a Life Orb.
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Should be noted that Mew pretty much severely outclasses Celebi in most roles and I can't really recall anything that makes Celebi stand out bar Natural Cure.
 
eaglehawk said:
Should be noted that Mew pretty much severely outclasses Celebi in most roles and I can't really recall anything that makes Celebi stand out bar Natural Cure.
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It is certainly a fair point. But about the boosting sets, its typing allows it to directly beat the bulky waters while its SD set can more effectively lure in and Sucker Punch 'mons like Victini or Chandelure due to its defensive typing against these said 'mons. That being said, Celebi definitely has some legitimate perks over Mew especially when it comes to the typing difference that they have.
 
Cloyster is just an unfortunate case of a sweeper. As a sweeper, getting walled by steel and water types, 2 common defensive typing in this tier, is just unfortunate. On the other hand its set up opportunities are extremely limited as it has bad special bulk (Forry's uninvested Volt Switch 2hkos lmao) and is very prone to status due to it often carrying White Herb/Sash/King's Rock over Lum Berry. However, I think our Oyster friend can stay in A- rank with an unique Life Orb Explosion set that lures in bulky waters to pave way for your main Sweeper to sweep. It is rather comparable to Nidoking in the same rank that in the current meta they can't sweep on their own easily but can afford to run a lure set (Megahorn/Superpower King) that ruins their usual checks/counters to pave way for others to sweep.
 
Honestly, I don't think that Cloyster is worthy of even A- Rank. Being walled by all the very common Bulky Water types and Steel types and not being able to set up on almost any Special move other than like an Ice-Beam due to its shitty SpD and the fact that it will probably take a hit at -1 after a Shell Smash. It even takes a fair beating from a Scald, coupled with a Burn chance just makes it rather unfavourable IMO. Let it also be known that its Ice-typing seriously draws it back defensively and the amount of support that this thing needs in order to sweep in a lot of cases isn't worth it. IMO its best potential lies in its LO Shell Smash Explosion set mentioned above by Mahmudkipz for its great lure potential to rid of those Bulky Water types. I think that Cloyster should only get B+ or B rank.
 
+2 4 SpA Cloyster Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mega Aggron: 189-223 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0+ Atk Mega Aggron Heavy Slam (60 BP) vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 85-102 (35.2 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 4 SpA Cloyster Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Forretress: 313-370 (88.4 - 104.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 198-234 (82.1 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 4 SpA Cloyster Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 133-157 (38.6 - 45.6%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 4 SpA Cloyster Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Jirachi: 163-193 (40.3 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I just ripped as many A-rank Steel-types and Cloyster has a decent match-up with every one of them when going Mixed (which should be the way to go). After running some calcs, the only real hard walls to Cloyster are:
Empoleon
Slowbro
Alomomola
Suicune
Jirachi (somewhat)
Tentacruel

Basically, Mudkipz and RowDog are right about it being completely walled by Bulky waters, but almost every single one of them can be pretty much broken with the same wallbreakers, so the issue regarding Cloyster being walled by Bulky Waters becomes a less pressing issue.
 
Aggron just needs T.wave or Roar (if Sash/White Herb) to completely shut down cloyster so that is still a decent check. Not having Rocks on Cloyster's field for Escavalier calc is also biased. And if we are assuming no rocks on both sides, Forry could have Sturdy intact when checking Cloyster and at -1 Volt Switch puts it at priority range.
 
I agree Celery should be A-, it's not as good as Meow in S but the grass typing gives it more resistances and a few bonuses over SweetCorn and other water types and can boost its stats.

Oyster I think is going to depend on where ever AGoron Mega, じらち～ and maybe Fortress end up. Shell smash is good but it is able to be walled by steel types.
 
The sad thing is that Stealth Rock must be assumed for Forretress. Cloyster is usually found on Offensive teams, and hazards are almost a given for Offense or any other notable playstyle in this tier for that matter. Forretress' main job is to Spin and set up Hazards, so it's an almost guarantee that he'll take hazard damage throughout the game. Cloyster is a late-game sweeper, which means that it can be safely assumed the Forretress took chip damage, not to also damage from sponging potential resisted hits from Cloyster's teammates.

The calcs for Escavalier were for Assault Vest since it's its best set in UU.

Aggron has no form of Recovery, so Aggron takes a shitton from Hydro Pump and is pretty much neutered for the rest of the game (depending on what kind of team playstyle he's on).
 
Celebi is moving down to B rank, while Cloyster is moving down to B+ rank. I think both of these Pokemon could move up a rank, but only if the metagame develops to foster their growth. They will remain in these ranks until that time.

The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Crobat and Escavalier.
 
I think Crobat should move up to A Rank. It, along with Mew, is one of the best defoggers in the tier. It doesn't have a lot of sets but it does what it needs to do better than anything else. Crobat is the glue which holds a lot of teams together. Brave Bird hits surprisingly hard, and Crobat is bulky enough (plus reliable recovery in Roost) that it's a great switch in for threats such as CB Heracross. That being said a Stealth Rock weakness and the prevalence of Stone Edge in the tier prevent it from going any higher.
 
eaglehawk said:
Should be noted that Mew pretty much severely outclasses Celebi in most roles and I can't really recall anything that makes Celebi stand out bar Natural Cure.
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Celebi gets u-turn + natural cure + grass typing to beat waters over Mew. When you play a team without cleric support, Mew gets ruined by scald burns and toxic, but Celebi doesn't, and can then use that u-turn for some momentum. Celebi can also be a cleric but I think Blissey and Aromatisse fit that better.

Crobat is at home in A-, very good mon but not quite Suicune level.

Escavalier wants to be a pivot with assault vest but a lot of the things he would pivot in on (Slowbro, Suicune, Swampert, etc) have scald. B+ imo
 
Stall is becoming more and more Common, and Crobat absolutely destoys it, Add a godlike speedtier, and we have a rock solid poke

Crobat for A rank.

Escavalier is a great poke in the current meta, the assault vest set takes hits like a boss, and with drill run, infernape cant switch in.

It should also be noted that it manhandles blissey, florges, and slowbro with it's STAB's.

Escavalier for A rank.
 
Escavalier IMO is very underrated in the UU tier, Escavalier's Huge Advantage that hardly any defensive pokemon dose not want to switch into escavalier it usually 2HKO alot of to blissey, umbreon, florgres, slowbro and etc which can do amazing vs stall, escavalier can also tank special attacking moves with assault vest which is always nifty for pokemon like alakazham and mega blastoise, on the down side tho the speed for escavalier is terrible it gets outspeeded by every pokemon in the whole tier also its biggest weakness is against fire types and the roster of fire types in the tier is huge, infernape, victini, mega houndoom, darmanitan, arcanine and entei all destroy escavalier, thankfully tho escavalier does carry drill run if u predict right, so overall I nom Escavalier for A-/A Rank.
 
Crobat is moving up to A rank, while Escavalier is moving down to B rank.

The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Flygon and Hippowdon.
 
Flygon's still one of the few viable physical dragons and makes a good defogger and has strong STAB types. Alakazam can only 2hko with psychic attacks assuming it's not scarfed, Infernape is checked by Flygon easily even if Earthquake could be pivoted, and Goodra can get torn up against a physical dragon.

252 Atk Choice Scarf Flygon Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 294-348 (76.5 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO ~~ (Life orb is 99.4 - 117.7% OHKO)

Blissey still holds up and Lucario x2 isn't countered (but can't come in on Flygon) and with faries added Outrage isn't an option but unless Haxorus stays when he drops Flygon should stay in A/A- range
 
Flygon never gets used. It gets passed up as a Scarfer by Hydreigon, who trades SR resistance for larger bulk, harder hitting STABs, and the all too important Dark-resistance. CB Flygon also has its own share of problems, as it needs Outrage to do any wallbreaking, but with the introduction of Fairies, any early-game Outrage gets met Florges, or worse, Aromatisse, meaning you did the exact opposite of wallbreaking, as they get to pass a Wish to anything on their team, free of charge. While Fairies don't like to take CB Earthquakes, Slowbro can easily scout it for them, as after Regenerator, it barely leaves a scratch. In addition, it's not fast enough to make enough of an impact. Overall, Flygon belongs in B or B+ rank, as it can't wallbreak, and its semi-unique niche as a levitating Dragon-type Scarfer is usurped by Hydreigon. Ironically, it still does have the niche of being a scarfer faster than Hydreigon, but its problems of being relatively weak and relatively slow just prevent it from being anywhere near the upper ranks.
 
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