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XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

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Why isn't Granbull ranked? I would propose somewhere around B or B- rank for it.

With Intimidate, it is probably the best switch in to fighting types in the tier as it takes pitiful damage from anything Mienshao can throw at it. Even a Life Orb Poison Jab only has a 24% to 3hko it. Granbull also resists both of Heracrosses STABs and makes for a good switch in to it as well, same with Machamp, Krookodile and Scrafty doesn't stand a bloody chance. It can take Knock Offs easily as well if it needs to but it hates losing Leftovers which is its only form of recovery.

Hell, it is even a decent check to Scarf Victini + Darmanitan, both of which fail to 2HKO with V-Create and Flare Blitz although it will get smashed they have Life Orbed or Band so I wouldn't count on it taking them on.

It is no slouch Offensively either, Base 120 Attack, an expansive movepool including Earthquake, Crunch, Close Combat, Stone Edge, Wild Charge and STAB Fairy means that it can potentially threaten most Pokemon in the tier and not much is going to want to switch into it. As a supportive mon, it gets moves like Heal Bell, Thunder Wave, Toxic and Roar which it can easily find the time to use.

Lack of reliable Recovery and mediocre special defense are pretty big flaws for a defensive Pokemon though which is why it isn't exactly top tier. Its speed also sucks but it isn't exactly taunt bait with Base 120 Attack.
 
We discussed Granbull earlier and kinda concluded that it was more of a C+ mon. Yeah, it checks and counters a lot of the things you mentioned, but all of those Fighting-types carry Knock Off. Losing Leftovers is a lot more detrimental to Granbull than you let on mainly because that's Granbull's only recovery outside of Rest. Granbull is pretty nifty, but being super vulnerable to hazards, special attacks, and Knock Off which most of the things it checks carry means that it's probably closer to B- or C+ range.
 
Okay, so I spent the majority of my time in NU during gen 5 and I became very familiar with the tier. I'm a bit confused as to how and why pokes that were firmly rooted in NU like Articuno, Cacturne, Braviary, Gorebyss, Ninjask and Stoutland have now risen all the way up to UU in gen 6. Would somebody care to indulge me?
 
Articuno is ranked because a guy got to second on the ladder using it, Cacturne counters suicune, and sets up spikes (I think, never used it), Braviary has defiant so profits off of defog, Gorebyss can smashpass, Ninjask can pass speed and attack, Stoutland got an attack boost and profits from the sand hippo makes in the tier.
 
AJawesome07 said:
Okay, so I spent the majority of my time in NU during gen 5 and I became very familiar with the tier. I'm a bit confused as to how and why pokes that were firmly rooted in NU like Articuno, Cacturne, Braviary, Gorebyss, Ninjask and Stoutland have now risen all the way up to UU in gen 6. Would somebody care to indulge me?
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Just because a Pokemon is NU by usage doesn't mean it's not viable in a higher tier.
 
@AJawesome07
I like UU because unlike OU where all the pokemon are assholes, you're allowed to use a lot of lower usage pokemon and they still work fairly well (even if there might be someone better at the same job). There have been some changes to the meta that give some NU more viability, Defiant is a good ability on Braviary to come in on Defog users so he's slightly more viable. Articuno has always been ok except for x4 stealth rock weakness so it's fine if you can keep hazards clear. Shell smash has always been a risk-reward move that could launch someones viability into OU with the right timing. And Stoutland with the other sand team members are good as long as Hippowdon doesn't get banned. Cacturne as a B- however idk, he sucks except for being obscure and walling 2 stab Slowbro.
 
So there really wasn't a need for me to make a video on Heracross and Mienshao, as the consensus was pretty much all A+ rank for both. The next two up for discussion are Hippowdon and Forretress.
 
ok

hippowdon should be moved down imo, it's a great phazer + rock setter, but it can't switch into a lot of moves from common banded / specs users, and sand stream is usually detrimental to most of the teams it's put on. it also suffers from the fact that it has kinda shit special defenses (where most of its weaknesses come from), and it literally can not do shit to flying types and is forced to replace either rocks or whirlwind just to do /mediocre/ damage to them.


forry could possibly stay imo, while it does lack reliable recovery, it has great stats, has access to both setting up hazards and removing them, works as a good pivot with volt switch, and can surprisingly hit hard against mons like mienshao and crobat with gyro ball. it's probably one of the best mixed walls in the tier tbh.
 
Has anyone used Hippowdon w/o Sand Stream? He's the back bone of any sand team but isn't too bad as a stall on its own. Sort of a physically attacking Slowbro but doesn't get scald and +/-10 to a couple stats. Has some good support moves including yawn, rocks and whirlwind but Ground only resists poison and rock and immunity to electric and makes it weak to grass, ice and water. I was thinking A but after looking closer Hippowdon as A+ might be that good.

Fortress has huge defense, both hazards and bug covers fighting and ground on the steel weaknesses. I say stay A+
 
According to Kokoloko, he said that Hippo is actually moving up to OU :( But I definitely see it being A ranked. I personally find it to be the best combination of phasing and setting up rocks on any given Poke. It has the typing and movepool to be an effective mixed wall. Sure, it can't beat CroCune or Slowbro 1v1, but it can come in on predicted HP Ice's from Mega-mane, handle weaker scalds, and things like that.

It has Slack off which is just amazing. It allows it to slack off on powerful attacks, such as Draco or anything like that. In addition, it can phase Pokes effectively, such as Baton passing Ninjask or Focus Energy Kingdra.

I don't wanna write up too much because it's supposedly moving up, so yeah. I think it should be A until it gets banned ;-;
 
I think Hippowdon is pretty good in A+. Amazing Physical Defense, alright special defense, decent typing, great movepool to work with including Stealth Rock, Whirlwind, STAB EQ and a good base 112 Attack and most important for a wall, reliable recovery. It can take on most Physical Attackers pretty well and it can even take on some Special Attackers like Mega Manectric, Raikou and Rotom H. Its ability allows for an entire play style to be based around it although since there aren't any amazing SS abusers in UU atm it is a bit wasted and can become a liability.

A few downsides are weaknesses to common types in Water, Grass and Ice, bad speed and it gives free switch ins to flying types and grass types unless it has the somewhat weak Ice Fang

I think it deserves A+ but maybe its weaknesses are catching up with it a bit.

I have not used Forretress much to be honest, the metagame doesn't look too kind to it at the moment. Like Granbull, Forretress is a little sad that UU is relatively Dragonless.

It has massive defense true but it also has mediocre HP and no reliable recovery meaning it won't be lasting overtly long. Its typing is a bit of mixed bag in UU seeing as Fire Types rule the roost basically. All entry hazards (except Sticky Web) is nice as well, along with Rapid Spin that can get rid of opposing hazards. Sturdy is really nice as Forretress probably needs it a lot. Volt Switch is also a nice addition given that instead of losing momentum like most spinners, it can actually gain it back as well.

Like Florges though, Forretess is extreme switch in bait to the Fire types of UU, Mega Houndoom could barely find a better set up fodder actually. Furthermore, it really competes for a slot as a Spinner due to things like Mega Blastoise, Starmie, Donphan, Tentacruel and Defog existing

I am not totally convinced about Forretress being A+ to be honest but like I said, I haven't really used it much.
 
Petrico94 I've seen people use Sand Force Hippowdon a lot, and it's not all that uncommon. Sand just hurts both teams detrimentally by doing damage over time.

Hippowdon is definitely A Rank. To be honest, he's undoubtedly one of the bulkiest Pokemon in the tier. However, his bulk cannot stop the crapton of wallbreakers UU has. CB Victini and LO Darm all 2HKO him. Heracross and Honchkrow can almost 2HKO him with their respective 120 BP STABs. Taking the definition of an A Rank Pokemon, "Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame." An A+ Pokemon means that it fits this definition well and that it is a one of the defining points in the metagame. Hippowdon can no longer even deal with the biggest names in Physical wallbreaking, let alone the plethora of Special wallbreakers. I'm not saying it's gone to shit, but it definitely needs to be knocked down a notch.

Regarding Forretress, he's probably the best Utility/Defensive Pivot in the metagame right now. Hazard setting + Hazard removal is already pretty valuable for teams. Instead of writing it out in paragraph form, here are some fun bullets:
  • Access to all three hazards, which makes it very flexible for fitting onto teams.
  • Rapid Spin. No questions there.
  • Fucking great typing in Steel.
  • Volt Switch makes it not setup fodder by gaining offensive momentum on given switch-in.
  • Does relatively high damage with Gyro Ball.
  • Two versatile and equally strong abilities. Sturdy allows it to survive an OHKO and Overcoat allows it to deal with Sleep Powder/Spore leads.
  • Four fucking cannon-things
So with that all said and done, Forretress is definitely an A+ utility Pokemon.
 
Ok, I don't have a ton of experience using either one of these, but I have faced them plenty of times.

Hippowdon: It sucks that so many of the Rapid Spin and Defog Pokemon can handle Hippo in some way. Mega Blaster and Starmie beat it for obvious reasons while Crobat and Mew can both Taunt Hippo and laugh at its EQs (Crobat due to typing and Mew due to WoW) For a sturdy Rocks setter, this is pretty major as only Mega-Blaster lacks recovery. While Hippo has great physical bulk and decent special bulk (when invested) it can't really have both at the same time. If Hippo invests in Special Defense, strong neutral physical attacks are going to stack up much more quickly. Because it is one of the bulkiest Rocks setters, has reliable recovery, and can check / counter a wide number of threats depending on the spread, I think Hippowdon makes the cut solidly at A rank. Solid physical wall and Rocks setter with reliable recovery, but it struggles with many of the hazard removers and has to give up a lot of physical bulk to check special attackers decently.

Forretress: A lot of people are probably going to hate me for this, but I don't feel as though Forretress is the "absolute best Rapid Spinner" that everyone is making it out to be. Looking at the current rankings, what does Forretress do to deter some of the top threats from coming in? It is the ultimate setup fodder for Mega-Houndoom. Sure, you can switch in something that can try to threaten Mega-Houndoom, but absolutely nothing is really stopping it from sitting there and clicking Flame Charge or Nasty Plot as Forry can't do shit to it unless it carries EQ (rare af) Mew? Can't do anything to stop Mew from hitting it with WoW, using Defog, or just healing up to get ready for the next assault it needs to face. Slowbro? Again, can't do a damn thing to stop Bro from doing whatever the hell it wants to do. Ladies and gentlemen, congratulations. If you're using an S rank Pokemon, you have a very powerful answer to Forretress without really trying. Long story short, Forretress may be a bulky af physical wall, but it is going to struggle a ton against some of the top threats in the current metagame. It won't hold up against Heracross or Mienshao (both physical attackers) and it faces a ton of competition from Slowbro as a general physical wall. You can EV it in Special Defense if you wish, but then you're losing a large amount of physical bulk. While Forretress has access to all but Sticky Web, can Rapid Spin, gets two useful abilities, and Volt Switch to build momentum, its typing absolutely betrays it in the current meta. Most teams are rocking a powerful, and very dangerous Fire-type Pokemon that is just ready to come in and lay out whatever comes in for Forretress. I don't think it's A+ rank at all. I think the only reason Forretress should be A rank is simply because it's about the best defensive spinner in the tier since it can build momentum, set and remove hazards, and punish some faster things with Gyro Ball. Otherwise, it's just that Pokemon that has a good, proven track record as a reliable Pokemon that does its job well, but sits in a metagame that is really unkind to it atm.
 
Petrico94 said:
With 90 attack it's possible. He gets Gyro ball, earthquake, and power trick. I'm sure most would rather use him as a durable hazard setter.
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Definitely would prefer him as a durable hazard setter given that unlike before you actually now need to put more effort in keeping hazard setters alive since you never know if the opponent has a surprise defogger waiting in the wings for you to get careless.
 
I have to say while I think most points are valid for foretress, how the hell is it in anyway a good rapid spinner when it has no way whatsoever to spin against ghosts? It has nothing to deter them from coming in and blocking the spin. If you want a good spinner, its mega-blastoise, starmie or nothing.

Other than that, EonX has said everything else notable about it.
 
silenced said:
I have to say while I think most points are valid for foretress, how the hell is it in anyway a good rapid spinner when it has no way whatsoever to spin against ghosts? It has nothing to deter them from coming in and blocking the spin. If you want a good spinner, its mega-blastoise, starmie or nothing.

Other than that, EonX has said everything else notable about it.
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It's called "everyone else has Knock off". It's a pretty nice thing for him.
 
silenced said:
I have to say while I think most points are valid for foretress, how the hell is it in anyway a good rapid spinner when it has no way whatsoever to spin against ghosts? It has nothing to deter them from coming in and blocking the spin. If you want a good spinner, its mega-blastoise, starmie or nothing.

Other than that, EonX has said everything else notable about it.
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Maybe I'm missing something here, but how the hell is Starmie superior to Forretress when it comes to spinblocking?
 
Gennosuke Fujiki said:
Well, you phrased it differently.

Starmie can hit the switch-in ghost with an Analytic Hydro Pump for massive damage, Forretress can do literally jackshit.
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I honestly don't think it's the much of a difference, Starmie doesn't really like Ghost-types lol. Forretress can't really do much to them, as you say. I guess maybe Gyro Ball?
 
Kangaaroo said:
I honestly don't think it's the much of a difference, Starmie doesn't really like Ghost-types lol. Forretress can't really do much to them, as you say. I guess maybe Gyro Ball?
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She doesn't like to take hits from them, no, but spinblockers switch in on her. So, she can severely damage them with her pretty powerful moves on the switch. That's what makes Starmie a better spinner.
 
="Kangaaroo, post: 5416035, member: 215435"]I honestly don't think it's the much of a difference, Starmie doesn't really like Ghost-types lol. Forretress can't really do much to them, as you say. I guess maybe Gyro Ball?[/quote]
I think the issue with the Starmie and Forretress discussion is that everyone thinks Starmie is immediately a better spinner since it beats spinblockers naturally. Well beating spinblockers is definitely a good thing, but there are certain things that Forretress can do that Starmie can't. Firstly, it can set up its own hazards which is huge since you sort of accomplish multiple roles at once. Secondly, When say you have a life orb Starmie up against a specially defensive trevenant. If you say hit it with ice beam it generally can live one and proceed to destroy you with whatever attacking move it has or just leech seed. However, Forretress does not have to risk taking much damage and instead just stack hazards while Trev sits there and tries to stall you out. Albeit it would win eventually but you can always switch out point being Starmie always has to make a gamble anytime it attacks just cuz it's so frail and one wrong move could spell disaster for it whereas Forretress is much more reliable in the sense that it can generally take damage to spin and still have enough health left to hit back or steal momentum. Interestingly, it has access to sturdy meaning at full health it is pretty much always going to have a free turn to spin unless you are against Chandelure in which case there's always stuff you can volt to like Umbreon and Snorlax which can generally sponge it's attacks and even better Houndoom which uses Choiced Chandelure as set up fodder
 
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