I nominate Porygon 2 to move up to B. The amount of bulk it has with eviolite is insane, and it has a great STAB in Tri Attack plus boltbeam coverage. It's attacking prowess is further boosted by Analytic or Download, while Trace is a viable option as well. It just fits so well on a lot of balance teams that it deserves a rank up.
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XY UU Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter Limitless
- Start date
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Stealing ScraftyIsTheBest's format :oo
Gone: What reason do you have to use this thing over Combusken? even if muh baton pass, it has a terrible defensive typing, and can only set up once most likely, unlike Combusken (who should probably be ranked in like C or C-). Every time I have seen someone use this thing it has basically served as a wasted slot.
C+: The only times I have ever fought this thing is when using balance / stall, where it is a massive pain in the ass for the latter due to the fact that it has good bulk and is a massive cunt to Slowbro thanks to Toxic and / or Dragon Tail. Outside of that though it seems kind of underwhelming, idrk why you would use it over Slowbro / Suicune as a wall. I have never seen a Competitive set either so I can't comment on that.
C+: In a tier filled with the likes of fighting-types, particularly Heracross who can take advantage of the status it usually spreads, as well as the fact that it's both offensive and defensive set-up, this thing isn't /that/ good.
C+: I guess setting up Spikes and Thunder Wave while having good psuedo bulk makes it ok; it's a pretty good switch in to Heracross? I have never seen this thing so i have little experience...
B or B+: I disagree with Kitten's placement, Stoutland in sand is one of /the/ best revenge killers at the moment; being able to practically hold CB / Silk Scarf while outspeeding nearly the entire tier (fuck scarfbat) is amazing, and it has good coverage to boot. Yeah, permasand hurt it, but against offense you'll more likely than not have enough turns to at least kill something, if not just clean late-game. I will admit it is kinda shit vs balance and especially Stall, though.
I will write the rest of my noms later.
I will write the rest of my noms later.
I kind of want to make a case for Mega Aerodactyl to S. It checks so much of the tier along with being imo the most versatile Mega (arguable with Ampharos) It has STABs that let it check top threats like Infernape, Victini, Heracross, Chandelure, Mienshao, it beats Non Bullet Punch Lucario with Earthquake, the list goes on and on. also don't want to toot my own horn but Pursuit is a great tool while niche it demolishes Victini, Chandelure, Alakazam, and ensures that many of the mons it checks stay dead. Also it is in at least the top 3 defoggers of the tier (Maero, Mew, Bat), and can also run Rocks for teams that are strapped for pokemon slots. So this is a shit ton of support and offensive capabilities, not even going into what i believe is the most important reason that Maero should be S. He fits on basically every team. The only thing i dont see working him with is in full stall which is not the best atm. I used him on semi stall and he performed his role beautifully, giving me extra insurance against stall breakers like NP Mixnape, and just being a speedy revenge killer in general. Balance and Bulky Offense use his resistances and speed to check many threats, while also being a defogger who doesnt lose momentum easily thanks to the switches he causes over something more passive like Mew. And Hyper Offense just Smash things since i kinda overlooked this but all his coverage options are boosted by Tough Claws, IE Aqua Tail for Hippo and Rhyperior, Crunch for Slowbro and some other bulky Psychics, Aerial Ace as STAB. Unfortunately EdgeQuake does not get Tough Claws boost but Earthquake really is for Lucario who dies unless its Bullet Punch Variant. Pursuit is also boosted by Tough Claws, and with max attack does cool things like OHKOing Chandelure on switch, Alakazam has ~87% chance to die even if it stays in, and OHKOing Victini after a V-Create, or with Rocks up and after someting not named Bolt Strike. I also forgot his Sub Hone Claws set which is very threatening to stall teams that can often only have 1-2 mons who break his sub, IE Blissey (bad switch in), or their Bulky water. Calloflochie showed this with his Sub Roost set that imo got underhyped and i used to great success. Hyper Offnse just smashes things with him, and lets them outspeed other offensives threats that hurt them. It does everything! The only reason i can see for it not moving up imho is the omnipresence of bulky waters, but thats what teammates are for, It,s a shame we couldnt put Mega Aerodactyl and Mega Ampharos on the same team, that would have been a core for the ages. So do whatever with Maero but honestly I think he's an S rank threat thanks to his Offensive and Support Capabilities combined with his ability to check 2/3 of the god damn tier.
EDIT: Also where do you guys find mini sprites, if someone could link me that would be cool
EDIT: Also where do you guys find mini sprites, if someone could link me that would be cool
I'm with Sage on Mega Aerodactyl. Supremely versatile and extremely effective in every role he has. Nothing in the tier rips me a new one more so than Mega Aero. Base 150 Speed is even Jesus-tier enough to need little-to-no investment for offensive sets, as there are few enough Pokemon that aren't scarfed that can catch him, while you can absorb a frankly obnoxious amount of punishment with a little defensive investment and Roost.
Meh but the problem is offense has ways to deal with it.B or B+: I disagree with Kitten's placement, Stoutland in sand is one of /the/ best revenge killers at the moment; being able to practically hold CB / Silk Scarf while outspeeding nearly the entire tier (fuck scarfbat) is amazing, and it has good coverage to boot. Yeah, permasand hurt it, but against offense you'll more likely than not have enough turns to at least kill something, if not just clean late-game. I will admit it is kinda shit vs balance and especially Stall, though.
1) Silk Scarf is weak, and can miss out on a lot of really important OHKOs. A lot.
2) Choice Band can be taken advantage by common members of offensive teams, such as Scarf Chandelure, Lucario, Maero, Jirachi
3) Life Orb adds recoil that can be taken advantage of by priority, which can take out any set, as Lucario and Mega Absol use their priority to tag team take out even recoil-less Stoutland (after SR)
4) Focus Sash Alakazam is also common. Stoutland would literally kill for U-turn against this damn thing.
5) Scarf Infernape outspeeds it, although I wouldn't even consider Scarfape a top 5 Scarfer at the moment (and I don't really consider Scarfbat a good one at all... lol)
These cons make it really hard to use as a revenge killer against offense compared to other scarfers. This is on top of how you said it's useless against balance/stall teams, where at least common Scarfers have much more utility. They either have
1) Good resistances to abuse (Chand, Hydrei, Jirachi, Victini)
2) U-turn to conserve momentum (Ape, Shao, Hydreigon, Jirachi, Tini)
3) Knock Off to aid in wearing down walls (Krook, Shao)
4) Miscellaneous utility moves (Healing Wish, Memento, Trick)
I think the only possible utility it adds is Pursuit, but even then, that's more suited against offensive teams. Overall, Kitten is right about its placement at C+, as the current archetype of offense teams makes it extremely hard for doge to do work like it used to.
Also shut up bouff you don't even use Stoutland you just steal my sand teams smh ;o
Thirding maero: There is so much stuff that it is able to kill in the meta that is already a huge threat, which has probably already been listed by sage. Especially with pursuit, it offers so much support to the rest of the team, allowing a sweep by a different pokemon. It can set up rocks, defog (having the most offensive presence of the pokemon who can do this) kill fire and fighting types for the rest of your mons, and the speed is just insane. With adamant, it outspeeds almost the entire nonscarfed metagame, and can even utilize taunt to break down stall. It's just such an incredible mon that it deserves S. Like Sage said, it can be placed on any team (assuming you don't have 5 mons weak to water or something lol) and can offer more support than almost any other mon in the entire tier.
milotic - competitive is pretty fun but otherwise milotic's lack of access to setup moves to capitalise on competitive hurts a lot (braviary can use a subBU set to rape stall). marvel scale is pretty much outclassed by slowbro/suicune/momo. c+
ninjask - ...this was ranked? sr weakness is terrible. combusken is bulkier + has eviolite + can actually pass bulk up. and flare blitz/fire blast means it actually does shit. infiltrator is grossly outclassed by crobat. this really should get out.
p2 - for a defensive mon it's support is really limited to twave/toxic. also fighting types galore, not a good time to be here. it does have good bulk and firepower though, so keeping it at b- is a good idea.
maero to S seems good to me: it's got a great movepool with rocks/defog/roost, has a fucking based speed tier, and can setup on slower shit. and it checks fucking everything (except waters, but fuck them).
ninjask - ...this was ranked? sr weakness is terrible. combusken is bulkier + has eviolite + can actually pass bulk up. and flare blitz/fire blast means it actually does shit. infiltrator is grossly outclassed by crobat. this really should get out.
p2 - for a defensive mon it's support is really limited to twave/toxic. also fighting types galore, not a good time to be here. it does have good bulk and firepower though, so keeping it at b- is a good idea.
maero to S seems good to me: it's got a great movepool with rocks/defog/roost, has a fucking based speed tier, and can setup on slower shit. and it checks fucking everything (except waters, but fuck them).
Call me crazy but I disagree with moving Mega Aero up to S. Despite how the metagame favours its existence, it still has a lot issues. A 135 base attack and Tough Claws with the ability to go Adamant for more power seems really good, especially with a colourful movepool that gives it Water, Fire, Dark and Ground etc. coverage. However, most of his contact moves except a few like Aqua Tail and Crunch have extremely low BP thusly offsetting the Tough Claws boost, and that includes its own STAB Aerial Ace.
While it gets some really nice utility moves such as Pursuit, Defog, Taunt and Stealth Rock, it is more of a jack of all trades master of none and it can't run all of those moves at once without losing precious coverage or Roost (which is really important as it is weak to rocks and has to check many things). It also loses out on U-turn, a move that it would kill for so it can preserve momentum or breaking Alakazam's sash without taking a hit.
And yes, while it is very versatile being able to run many sets, all of them shares similar checks and counters like Swampert and Mega Aggron which Aerodactyl just fails to scratch, unlike other S-rank offensive threats such as Victini/Hydreigon who has a wide movepool and mixed offensive stats to muscle past most if not all of their checks and counters, wheras Heracross's extreme brute force allows it get past even Granbull with an SD GutsOrb set or at least cripple them with Knock Off. Again, due to its lack of U-turn you are almost always forced to sacrifice momentum when it gets hard countered which is a real pain for offensively based teams.
That is not to mention the flaws that every Mega Evolution shares such as no passive lefties recovery, needing a turn to Mega up to get the speed/bulk and inability to employ another Mega. Keep Maero at A+
While it gets some really nice utility moves such as Pursuit, Defog, Taunt and Stealth Rock, it is more of a jack of all trades master of none and it can't run all of those moves at once without losing precious coverage or Roost (which is really important as it is weak to rocks and has to check many things). It also loses out on U-turn, a move that it would kill for so it can preserve momentum or breaking Alakazam's sash without taking a hit.
And yes, while it is very versatile being able to run many sets, all of them shares similar checks and counters like Swampert and Mega Aggron which Aerodactyl just fails to scratch, unlike other S-rank offensive threats such as Victini/Hydreigon who has a wide movepool and mixed offensive stats to muscle past most if not all of their checks and counters, wheras Heracross's extreme brute force allows it get past even Granbull with an SD GutsOrb set or at least cripple them with Knock Off. Again, due to its lack of U-turn you are almost always forced to sacrifice momentum when it gets hard countered which is a real pain for offensively based teams.
That is not to mention the flaws that every Mega Evolution shares such as no passive lefties recovery, needing a turn to Mega up to get the speed/bulk and inability to employ another Mega. Keep Maero at A+
You do realize that Tough Claws is essentially a Life Orb boost without recoil, right? With this Ability, Aqua Tail has 120 BP and Crunch 104 BP, making them powerful enough to clean most of its threats. Regarding Aerial Ace, let's see how much power it has. 60*1.5 = 90 -> 90*1.3 = 120, which is the same as a STAB Crunch. The Elemental Fangs have a respectable 86 BP, which really isn't as bad as you make it out to be. What makes Aerial Ace such a good move on Mega Aerodactyl is its Flying-type, which shreds common threats like Infernape, Mienshao and especially Heracross, one of the most major offensive threats in UU at the moment. It then has a powerful STAB Stone Edge at its disposal, while having coverage in Earthquake. Add SR support and Mega Aerodactyl will always be able to pull its weight as an offensive Pokémon. Its moves are not as weak as you make them out to be, since Aqua Tail and Crunch are often run, while it's usually only one Elemental Fang, not all three of them.
Pursuit and Stealth Rock are two support moves that set Mega Aerodactyl apart from Crobat. Not to mention, thanks to its base 135 Attack, Mega Aerodactyl can deal a larger deal of damage with Stone Edge than Crobat can with Brave Bird on defensive sets.
Hydreigon and Heracross are hardwalled by Fairy-types, yet they're still S-Rank. Slowbro is countered by Hydreigon, but it's still S-Rank. Blissey is shat all over by Taunt users such as Crobat and Mega Aerodactyl, but it's still S-Rank! If we take a look at OU, Keldeo is S-Rank, but it has a share of hardcounters nonetheless. If we take a look at RU, Zoroark is S-Rank, but is hardwalled by Aromatisse most of the time. In short, hardcounters are not a valid argument for a Pokémon not to be S-Rank. I should also note how every S-Ranker outside of Blissey has four or five weaknesses, just like Mega Aerodactyl:
- Hydreigon is weak to Dragon, Fighting, Bug, Ice and Fairy.
- Slowbro is weak to Electric, Grass, Bug, Ghost and Dark.
- Heracross is weak to Fire, Fairy, Psychic and Flying.
- Victini is weak to Water, Rock, Ground, Ghost and Dark.
- Mega Aerodactyl is weak to Ice, Electric, Rock, Steel and Water.
See? These weaknesses don't deter the first four from being S-Rank, so it shouldn't deter Mega Aerodactyl from this position, either.
Before Mega Evolution, Aerodactyl has 105 Speed, which really isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. Even after Mega Evolving, it's still outsped by Scarfers, but that extra bulk allows it to live a hit and strike back hard with its boosted Attack stat and Tough Claws. The fact that another Mega Evolution can't be used applies to every Mega Evolution ever. A Mega Evolution is chosen depending on what the team requires, not the other way around.
Mega Aerodactyl fully deserves to be S-Rank for the insane amount of Pokémon it checks and due to its amazing offensive prowess and valuable support.
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Ok first I mean most moves except Aqua Tail and Crunch. Sorry if my wording is unclear as I am not a native speaker. n_n It might not be abyssmally low (Stone Edge does have 100 BP and has STAB) but you do know that it is never gonna hit as hard as Victini despite the latter's lower attack, due to its inability to hold a boosting item and relative low BP moves.
Secondly, yes, Crobat doesn't have Stealth Rock, Crobat doesn't Pursuit targets like Aerodactyl does, but that is what I mean jack of all trades master of none. Crobat does Defog better due to its arguably better sets of resists, instant speed without needing to Mega and has lefties/b.sludge to alleviate chip damage from Stealth Rock. Mega Aggron is almost guranteed to set up rocks due to its immense bulk. Krookodile has STAB on Pursuit, has 2 immunities to boot, can hold an item and has great abilities along with STAB Knock Off to threaten those who stay in. Again I am not saying it is incompetent in any of its roles it just doesn't do any of them individually as good as others.
Thirdly, I did said offensive threats in S-rank like Hydreigon and Heracross can get past its counters but with different sets wheras Mega Aerodactyl can't. Just to prove my point:
I mentioned nothing about weakness in the last post so not commenting on that, seeing as I don't think an offensive threat should be judged on its typing unless it is utter shit like Ice + Flying.
Aerodactyl does have a whooping 130 speed before mega but you never invest fully on it meaning you might need one turn to Mega in order to outrun some important stuff you use Aerodactyl to check in the first place. Yeah this applies to every mega but you have to admit that is an inherent fault that being a Mega has. Just that every Mega has this issue doesn't mean this issue doesn't exist.
While it does check a shit ton of Pokemon and has offensive utility, it just isn't as good as say Victini and Hydreigon who are just completely unpredictable and has no safe switch ins.
Again I apologize for not making myself clear but can we please take this to PM cuz we are supposed to talk about B-rank n_n Thanks for the fast response tho O_O
Secondly, yes, Crobat doesn't have Stealth Rock, Crobat doesn't Pursuit targets like Aerodactyl does, but that is what I mean jack of all trades master of none. Crobat does Defog better due to its arguably better sets of resists, instant speed without needing to Mega and has lefties/b.sludge to alleviate chip damage from Stealth Rock. Mega Aggron is almost guranteed to set up rocks due to its immense bulk. Krookodile has STAB on Pursuit, has 2 immunities to boot, can hold an item and has great abilities along with STAB Knock Off to threaten those who stay in. Again I am not saying it is incompetent in any of its roles it just doesn't do any of them individually as good as others.
Thirdly, I did said offensive threats in S-rank like Hydreigon and Heracross can get past its counters but with different sets wheras Mega Aerodactyl can't. Just to prove my point:
+1 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 316-372 (82.2 - 96.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine: 152-179 (39.5 - 46.6%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
52 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 190-224 (52.7 - 62.2%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine: 152-179 (39.5 - 46.6%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
52 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 190-224 (52.7 - 62.2%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I mentioned nothing about weakness in the last post so not commenting on that, seeing as I don't think an offensive threat should be judged on its typing unless it is utter shit like Ice + Flying.
Aerodactyl does have a whooping 130 speed before mega but you never invest fully on it meaning you might need one turn to Mega in order to outrun some important stuff you use Aerodactyl to check in the first place. Yeah this applies to every mega but you have to admit that is an inherent fault that being a Mega has. Just that every Mega has this issue doesn't mean this issue doesn't exist.
While it does check a shit ton of Pokemon and has offensive utility, it just isn't as good as say Victini and Hydreigon who are just completely unpredictable and has no safe switch ins.
Again I apologize for not making myself clear but can we please take this to PM cuz we are supposed to talk about B-rank n_n Thanks for the fast response tho O_O
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You have some good points. I initially misread your first line, but corrected it after re-reading it, so my apologies for overseeing.
I know you didn't mention weaknesses, but I thought I might as well compare Mega Aero to the current S-Rankers, as they have some really common weaknesses, just like Mega Aero. It was mainly to draw a comparison and common weak point.
I still support Mega Aerodactyl going to S-Rank, but I do understand why some want to keep it in A+. Thanks for the extra information!
Watfor I totally understand why you see Mega Aero as a A+ not S, but honestly it's support combined with its offensive capabilities are what puts it into the god tier. No it can't nuke things like Victini and Hydra, but it does do a lot more than they can. You called it a Jack of All Trades, master of none but it is the master with its fast as shit speed, it can revenge so many set up sweepers, that imo it's in top 3 revenge killers in tier (not accounting for Manaphy) and when you have that versatility and you don't know what set it's running, it becomes an S rank threat. Yes universal counters IE Swampert or Aggron exist. But Aerodactyl is also a support mon, and they don't stop him from defogging, roosting, or Pursuitonf something. It can still do its job before they switch in which is imo enough to keep it's flaws from outshining it's benefits.
EDIT: the S tier caption says of pokemon who can perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their unpredictability, and support mons who give free turns, Mega Aero does this by forcing switches. Seems like a good fit to me but have your own opinion fren :)
Here's why:
- it's at a pretty damn good speed tier, as well as spatk stat, to either be a choice specs user, choice scarfer, using based LO, or even going Lefties CM (though the last one idk is as viable as it used to be, I would think so though, but fuckin' blissey, etc.)
-while it does have issues most spatkers do with Bliss/Umbreon/Snorlax/etc, it can at least mitigate their blubber with Aura Sphere (Rash nature isn't too bad, though the slight bulk will be missed), and has in general the bare necessity of coverage (thought a little more wouldn't hurt, to be fair) It does have Extrasensory if you're feeling the need to hit the nidos/Roserade, Shadow Ball for general coverage (fairly nice to spam on a choice set imo), Volt Switch for obvious reasons, Weather Ball for Weather Teams,
-----Now I know what you're thinking with Aura Sphere/WBall. THE SPEED, CLOSET! WHAT ABOUT THE SPEED?! I'm namely talking about scarfkou using Aura Sphere, when he wouldn't mind the speed drop as much (or maybe moreso, since you can't outspeed scarfshao/scarfnape). But even then, it's a dilemma, true. But, unscarfed, Rash, you'll still outspeed max speed base 100s, which is still a good speedtier to hit, especially when you can have max spatk and good coverage, though that tradeoff is what's keeping it from A- or whatever else higher.
-Another thing that we always gloss over sometimes is how weaknesses do matter. It's not everything, by any means, but with Raikou only boasting a ground weakness, it's fairly easy to cover for, though it's natural bulk only allows for one, maybe two hits from something neutral.
Hopefully I put my words in correctificial order and I made sense-- I know it's not a monumental change, but it's one I still believe should happen, if only for our yellow cat friend. (also, this is probs my first post in this thread, so yippee)
Also B- rank mons are a thing sorry Limitless for steering attention away from them.
Milotic: C+ sadly outclassed by every single bulky water in tier imo. It is NOT a bad mon, but opportunity cost is why to high, dragon tail and hypnosis don't distinguish it enough
Ninjask: Unranked get this shit outta here, combusted passes better, only niche is NU atm
Porygon 2: C+ Hard to find a niche for the cyber duck in a fighting filled meta, he really doesn't add much to a team but tanking strong hits, offensive as bulky attacker is pretty weak without item since Eviolite, also
Knock Off
Qwilfish: B- A lot of mons here are outclassed, Froslass really competes with Qwil for a slot as lass can block spin, and while Qwil has cool options like Explosion and D Bind, Lass' speed will help her immensely, don't use as bulky Spiker since not recovery, good switch in to Heracross is cool too.
Rhyperior: B Often overlooked, great for Bulky Offense stealth rock setter and just tanks a lot of hits thanks to Solid Rock
Slurpuff: C+ it still has stuff that walls belly drum like Aggron and Calm Mind isn't immediately threatening. Also 1 time sweeper thanks to shitty Unburden mechanics
Stoutland: C+ sand teams have fallen from grace, but doge is a good choice on teams with a Hippowdon anyway, being super fast and hitting hard. ULTRA reliant on sand kills ranking imo
Shuckle: B best web setter, also gets rocks nuff said
Seismitoad: C+ good swift swimmer, it put work in on Gobo rain, and ok tank with rocks, although heavily outclassed by Swampert bar Water Absorb, use it do its abilities
Uxie: C can't do much butt Rocks and Screens, although U-turn is cool. It has no recovery, bad typing, and no offensive presence, free substitutes
Togetic: B very fat mon although Togekiss may be dropping, probably killing its viability, lots of people copied PIFs NastyPass to Yanmega Exploud shenanigans
Scrafty: haven't seen or use enough, doesn't seem kinda meta to him, presence of Bat Aero, and New physical def Faries gets him
Milotic: C+ sadly outclassed by every single bulky water in tier imo. It is NOT a bad mon, but opportunity cost is why to high, dragon tail and hypnosis don't distinguish it enough
Ninjask: Unranked get this shit outta here, combusted passes better, only niche is NU atm
Porygon 2: C+ Hard to find a niche for the cyber duck in a fighting filled meta, he really doesn't add much to a team but tanking strong hits, offensive as bulky attacker is pretty weak without item since Eviolite, also
Knock Off
Qwilfish: B- A lot of mons here are outclassed, Froslass really competes with Qwil for a slot as lass can block spin, and while Qwil has cool options like Explosion and D Bind, Lass' speed will help her immensely, don't use as bulky Spiker since not recovery, good switch in to Heracross is cool too.
Rhyperior: B Often overlooked, great for Bulky Offense stealth rock setter and just tanks a lot of hits thanks to Solid Rock
Slurpuff: C+ it still has stuff that walls belly drum like Aggron and Calm Mind isn't immediately threatening. Also 1 time sweeper thanks to shitty Unburden mechanics
Stoutland: C+ sand teams have fallen from grace, but doge is a good choice on teams with a Hippowdon anyway, being super fast and hitting hard. ULTRA reliant on sand kills ranking imo
Shuckle: B best web setter, also gets rocks nuff said
Seismitoad: C+ good swift swimmer, it put work in on Gobo rain, and ok tank with rocks, although heavily outclassed by Swampert bar Water Absorb, use it do its abilities
Uxie: C can't do much butt Rocks and Screens, although U-turn is cool. It has no recovery, bad typing, and no offensive presence, free substitutes
Togetic: B very fat mon although Togekiss may be dropping, probably killing its viability, lots of people copied PIFs NastyPass to Yanmega Exploud shenanigans
Scrafty: haven't seen or use enough, doesn't seem kinda meta to him, presence of Bat Aero, and New physical def Faries gets him
I maybe gonna get hate for this but i think Ninjask should not be unranked but only in D rank, tbh its baton passing set is shite when u got combuskun however i think it should stay, my main reason for ninjask ranked is a Fast Baton Defog Passer, ik that there are lots of spinners and defoggers like crobat, mega blastoise, empoleon, donphan, etc tho what ninjask need to do is check a pokemon like heracross or roserade so it can get rid of hazards and once ninjask's counter come in it can use a baton pass to what pokemon and can counter ninjask's counter.
Even if combuskun is a better baton passer and there are many pokemon that outclasses ninjask to get rid of hazards tho with baton pass and defog on the same team, if ninjask and victini on the same team, ninjask can get rid of hazards and baton pass extra speed to victini which can be helpful so i hope ninjask gets it into D rank area
Even if combuskun is a better baton passer and there are many pokemon that outclasses ninjask to get rid of hazards tho with baton pass and defog on the same team, if ninjask and victini on the same team, ninjask can get rid of hazards and baton pass extra speed to victini which can be helpful so i hope ninjask gets it into D rank area
I cannot believe Meowstic-M isn't on the OP! With Klefki gone, Meowstic-M is the only Prankster dual-screener left in the UU metagame.
Apart from dual screens, Meowstic-M also got a few status-inducing moves (Thunder Wave and Toxic).
On a side note, it has got Prankster Assist, which is a devastating style of play (look here to see Prankster Assist Liepard in its glory). Meowstic-M performs in this strategy much better than Liepard because it has better bulk and Prankster RestTalk. (Assist no longer calls Roar/Whirlwind in Gen6, so no more priority phazing)
Other viable sets include Mean Look+Torment and Prankster Trick.
And most importantly, it has access to Rain Dance which instantly makes it the best partner for Manaphy in rain teams. Dual Screen + Rain Dance = free set up turnS for Manaphy.
IMO Meowstic is definitely worth at least A- rank due to its fantastically reliable support as a dual screener, weather inducer, and it has the advantage of being faster than Sableye (102 base speed), so one/two turn(s) of set up is guaranteed before Sableye uses Taunt.
Finally, if you are using Manaphy, you should definitely use Meowstic-M. Meowstic-M is a totally different choice with Sableye, where the former can provide active support for allies and Sableye provide passive support by Will-O-Wisp to ease physical defensive pressure and Taunting SR users. Meowstic-M should enjoy equal treatment (if not better) as Sableye.
Apart from dual screens, Meowstic-M also got a few status-inducing moves (Thunder Wave and Toxic).
Other viable sets include Mean Look+Torment and Prankster Trick.
And most importantly, it has access to Rain Dance which instantly makes it the best partner for Manaphy in rain teams. Dual Screen + Rain Dance = free set up turnS for Manaphy.
IMO Meowstic is definitely worth at least A- rank due to its fantastically reliable support as a dual screener, weather inducer, and it has the advantage of being faster than Sableye (102 base speed), so one/two turn(s) of set up is guaranteed before Sableye uses Taunt.
Finally, if you are using Manaphy, you should definitely use Meowstic-M. Meowstic-M is a totally different choice with Sableye, where the former can provide active support for allies and Sableye provide passive support by Will-O-Wisp to ease physical defensive pressure and Taunting SR users. Meowstic-M should enjoy equal treatment (if not better) as Sableye.
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Prankster Assist is an interesting concept, but the dude was using a Monobug team against a fifth gen OU sun team. You make some interesting points with Meowstic-M as a supporter but showing its use in THIS metagame will help us give it a fair ranking in this metagame. Do you have any replays of it in XY UU?
Assist doesn't call any abuseable moves this gen, iirc.
Honestly, priority screens are definitely nice, but that's really the only useful thing Meowstic brings to the prankster table. We already have a better prankster rain setter in the form of Tornadus, who can also abuse the rain it summons. Prankster thunder wave is very nice too, but that's a pretty clogged up area already with Mega Banette (how is this below stuff like tangrowth guys come on), Whimsicott's stun spore and Liepard. Idg why prankster trick would be much better than normal trick in the first place tbh, so that's not very relevant.
With all this, its not even that bulky and its typing is bad. I suppose if you really needed quick screens you could consider Meowstic, but it's not even the best screen setter as it has no way to pivot or suicide into teammates. It definitely has a niche in a unique (until klefki inevitably returns) combo of Screens+Thunderwave, but that's waaayyyy too niche to be A-
With all this, its not even that bulky and its typing is bad. I suppose if you really needed quick screens you could consider Meowstic, but it's not even the best screen setter as it has no way to pivot or suicide into teammates. It definitely has a niche in a unique (until klefki inevitably returns) combo of Screens+Thunderwave, but that's waaayyyy too niche to be A-
Getting back to B- discussion, I'd like to propose Qwilfish for B. I've used qwilfish a lot in this meta, and really it's an extraordinary pokemon. For me, at least, it isn't there for spikes (as clearly froslass, roserade and others are better) but its defensive ability is really, really good. It checks so much offensive shit it's not even funny, including but not limited to lucario, victini, mega aerodactyl, heracross, darmanitan, and pretty much any other physical fighting/fire type you can think of. Mega Aerodactyl's adamant 252 earthquake does about 42%, and having access to twave to cripple a lot of these threats is a great thing. Pain split is not reliable recovery, but it is there. It is one of the only pokemon in the meta that can reliably check heracross, as it takes little from stone edge and resists its stabs. It's not as good as last generation, but it can still shine if you give it time. Pair it up with a mon that can take stuff like Raikou and also can take zen headbutts from victini and you have a solid core. I've had some success using a donphan/blissey/qwilfish core. Wish passing is a huge thing in balance/stall/semistall now that blissey is in the tier, and qwilfish benefits from it immensely. I would vouch for it to be higher, but while it can utilize thunder wave and intimidate to stop physical setup it serves as setup fodder for a lot of special mons like p-z and its spikes can easily be defogged by stuff like mew which doesn't care about thunder wave or waterfall from a poor attack stat. IMO it should definitely be taken into consideration when trying to check heracross. Just my two cents.
Waterfall over Scald? Or is the base power drop not worth it given you're already intimidating them.
I'm guessing 252 HP, 252 Defense, Impish?
Waterfall actually hits hard enough to 3HKO/2HKO the threats it checks. Guaranteed 3HKO on heracross, OHKO after rocks on darm, 2HKO on victini, 2HKO on mega aerodactyl, and easily 2hko's lucario with life orb recoil. Scald can't do any of the above and given one of the top pokemon it checks are fire types, the scald burn isn't really worth it. And given you're already running thunder wave, the stuff you would want to burn would already be t-waved. Paraflinch is nice too.
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