I don't know what trial you were watching. His gun was registered to him and he was a legal gun owner. In fact, he's entitled to get his gun back now. Getting out of the car was not an illegal action either.
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Serious Zimmerman Acquitted
- Thread starter Nastyjungle
- Start date
- Status
When authorities are telling you not to do so it is an illegal action. When you blatantly disregard orders from your authority, and willingly put yourself into a situation where "hold your ground" has to actually be questioned, you need to be accountable for that, apart from the confrontation. He's not a cop, he has no authority, why is he pretending to be one. He is neighborhood watch, and he should know better than that. If he would have left it to authorities like a neighborhood watch was suppose to, like he was flat-out told to do, Trevon would be alive.
And neighborhood watches aren't suppose to be carrying weapons, they are almost always encouraged not to by authorities.
Meh. I blame prosecutors. I really believe they could have made the case that he should be charged for stupidity and held accountable as a neighborhood watch that should know better, but they took the intend to kill route, and flowered it with racism. There was little evidence for racism and absolutely no evidence for intent to kill.
mattj
blatant Nintendo fanboy
I hope Florida law changes because of this. Honestly, I'm not exactly sure how though. I still support gun ownership and self defense. And I'm not sure that I oppose neighborhood watches, or asking people you don't know what they're up to. But something needs to change, because this isn't acceptable.
Trayvon Martin was a thug. I would've been wary around him too. If he had been a white thug I would have felt the exact same way.
Zimmerman still made some horrible decisions and is a complete scumbag for instigating anything, especially despite 911 telling him not to. The race card being played here is pretty absurd to me though imo.
Zimmerman still made some horrible decisions and is a complete scumbag for instigating anything, especially despite 911 telling him not to. The race card being played here is pretty absurd to me though imo.
The shit I'm seeing on twitter is shameful at this point. I see every other person making sweeping generalizations about the justice system, such as "American Justice system is a joke". People are talking about rioting in the streets, vandalizing white neighborhoods, showing them "our side" or some stupid shit. Roddy White tweeted that the juror's should go kill themselves and Victor Cruz said that "vigilante justice" won't let Zimmerman stay alive for more than a year. smh.
I agree that race has a lot to do with the case (and that there are still huge problems with racial profiling in America with the police, etc), but I don't see why people are in such an uproar because of the verdict. In other words, Zimmerman was absolutely racially profiling yet when it comes down to whether he murdered Martin or not race doesn't play a part in that.
There's no question that Zimmerman was profiling or that he probably should have just stayed put after calling 911, BUT, simply profiling or following Martin wasn't a crime it's just Zimmerman being a complete doucher. The fact that they established in court that Martin was "smashing Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk repeatedly" says to me that self defense is perfectly acceptable (although some people are calling it "bullshit" for whatever reason). If my head is being bashed into concrete I think I would do whatever I could to defend myself as well.The idea of the justice system is to make the correct decision under the law. Without getting too technical, Zimmerman didn't commit any 1st (or 2nd) degree murder. He was defending himself while being beaten by a grown human being (note I don't say "man" because then the people will come out saying he was 17 or w/e). Maybe there are some civil charges or more minor charges one could give to Zimmerman, but being in an uproar because he wasn't convicted of murder really baffles me.
Also if people want to criticize Zimmerman for causing trouble in the first place by following Martin, one could just as easily criticize Martin for not walking away or just using his words. Martin would be alive if he had just used his head a little. Point being, don't glorify Martin and crucify Zimmerman like I see most people doing.
I agree that race has a lot to do with the case (and that there are still huge problems with racial profiling in America with the police, etc), but I don't see why people are in such an uproar because of the verdict. In other words, Zimmerman was absolutely racially profiling yet when it comes down to whether he murdered Martin or not race doesn't play a part in that.
There's no question that Zimmerman was profiling or that he probably should have just stayed put after calling 911, BUT, simply profiling or following Martin wasn't a crime it's just Zimmerman being a complete doucher. The fact that they established in court that Martin was "smashing Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk repeatedly" says to me that self defense is perfectly acceptable (although some people are calling it "bullshit" for whatever reason). If my head is being bashed into concrete I think I would do whatever I could to defend myself as well.The idea of the justice system is to make the correct decision under the law. Without getting too technical, Zimmerman didn't commit any 1st (or 2nd) degree murder. He was defending himself while being beaten by a grown human being (note I don't say "man" because then the people will come out saying he was 17 or w/e). Maybe there are some civil charges or more minor charges one could give to Zimmerman, but being in an uproar because he wasn't convicted of murder really baffles me.
Also if people want to criticize Zimmerman for causing trouble in the first place by following Martin, one could just as easily criticize Martin for not walking away or just using his words. Martin would be alive if he had just used his head a little. Point being, don't glorify Martin and crucify Zimmerman like I see most people doing.
The difference between Martin's actions and Zimmerman's actions is that Zimmerman was blatantly told not to pursue by authorities, and he did so anyway. Martin was no saint, but that's beyond making the bad choice, that's negligence territory.
911 dispatchers are not authorities.
I'm personally busting a gut at everyone calling Zimmerman white myself.
Please marry me.
You, me, and a wedding chapel. NOW! :)Oh, so George Zimmerman doesn't have bloodied up pics, and the medical report + the autopsy report did not indicate Zimmerman had lacerations on the back of his head and a broken lip, and Trayvon did not point out Martin had damaged knuckles.
No wait, all of that stuff was admitted as evidence. Maybe your problem is personal - you don't like the fact I specifically am posting an alternative view -, not that what I'm saying isn't an entirely credible explanation. I embellished slightly because the pro-Martin forces seem to believe Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon and then shot him in cold blood, while Trayvon was just innocently minding his own business. The evidence in the trial of Zimmerman's bloodied head and face don't support that theory.
I'm trying to point out how uncharitable you're being by expressing your own behavior, just biased in the other direction.
What I honestly think happened is Zimmerman was just making his rounds as the neighborhood watch, Martin noticed him, confronted him - at some point it got phyiscal, and Martin being the larger, stronger man was easily tossing Zimmerman aside. Zimmerman thought he was going to be seriously harmed or killed, and he shot Martin. Neither are exemplary citizens. But Zimmerman didn't beat his own face in, or lacerate the back of his own skull.
So, 5'11 (corrected) athletic guys with questionable histories aren't scary on dark, rainy nights - in neighborhoods with recent break-ins?
His race is irrelevant, except that it also fit the profile of the break-in suspects. But hey, it's the left that wants to turn this into a race war, by all means insinuate I believe Zimmerman would think Martin is scary because he's black, not because he towers over Zimmerman, is physically superior, and reacted in a hostile and physical manner.
Edit: coolbiz:
This don't look like a small guy, at least not compared to Zimmerman:
More pics: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=155450403&page=1
Oh, and I've come across information, apparently I was wrong about Martin being 6'2". My error, but you see it's been insanely difficult to get accurate information on Martin when the media keeps posting pics of him as a 12 year old kid. Turns out he's 5'11. He's still larger and much more athletic than Zimmerman, if not more than the average person per se.
Thank God, there are people who still think for themselves in this world.
did you really have to triple post to quote deck knight's shitty post? That is not thinking for yourself.
Also im really liking the unity between all walks of life for one cause. I think this brings the American community together and isolates the conservative bigots even more. The bigots really show their true color on stuff like this... It is not about if you think the verdict was good or not... It is about doing what deck knight did and isolating the color of his skin and showing him doing what most teenagers do to make it seem like trayvon was a terrible person before the incident even started.
Also im really liking the unity between all walks of life for one cause. I think this brings the American community together and isolates the conservative bigots even more. The bigots really show their true color on stuff like this... It is not about if you think the verdict was good or not... It is about doing what deck knight did and isolating the color of his skin and showing him doing what most teenagers do to make it seem like trayvon was a terrible person before the incident even started.
Then what's the point of even calling if you're not going to listen to the dispatcher? I'm sure any intelligent person would have listened to the 911 dispatcher, or at the very least not have gotten out of the truck to begin with.
for those of you looking for other sweeping generalizations (while ignoring facts) I may have been referring to, I believe Curtains "conservative bigots" comment fits nicely.
@Wizarus: While I agree he should listen to 911 dispatcher, they're giving advice not mandating anything. They aren't an authority and Zimmerman has no obligation to do what they say.
edit: if you honestly need an answer, I believe you've said enough
@Wizarus: While I agree he should listen to 911 dispatcher, they're giving advice not mandating anything. They aren't an authority and Zimmerman has no obligation to do what they say.
edit: if you honestly need an answer, I believe you've said enough
Bull of Heaven
Guest
Haven't we gone over this already. Pursuing Martin after being told not to was not a racist act. Neither was killing Martin when, most likely, Martin was attacking Zimmerman. But pursuing Martin in the first place was blatant racism, as was calling 911. Zimmerman claimed to have called 911, which I remind you is meant to be done only in emergencies, because someone was walking around the neighbourhood while it was raining. Do I really need to say anything more about how ridiculous that reasoning is? By that standard I've looked like I'm "on drugs" and "up to no good" countless times in my life. Strip that nonsense away and there isn't much left to explain Zimmerman's motivations other than Martin's race.
I've already kind of responded to Deck Knight, but since you quoted him and this is related to my point:
Again, the racism came into play at the very beginning, when Zimmerman saw Martin and called 911. This happened prior to any aggression from Martin, and the transcript of that call shows that Zimmerman clearly did not know who Martin was, which means that any "questionable history" of Martin's was not yet relevant. None of what Deck Knight said explains the racism away, because the racism was involved before Zimmerman knew any of these things, including how Martin would react to being followed.
Edit:
That's all true, but you're missing the point. I'm looking at why he would think a crime was about to be committed. I'm glad we agree that Zimmerman was being an asshole though.
In the United States of America you can call the police if you feel you are in danger or feel there is a crime about to happen. So Zimmerman committed no crime in exercising that right.
The only crime he committed, which sadly isn't a crime, is not following orders from an official and pursuing Martin when told not too because obviously that was asking for a confrontation.
I agree with the people on here who said that he should at least be convicted of manslaughter. I second this notion seeing as everything points to him inciting the altercation between himself and Martin. I just disagree that this was a racial hate crime is all.
So you're still full of shit?
@kd24 - yeah, sorry for bringing up Davis. I was just bemused that the "right to life" was finally being acknowledged, and wanted to poke the bear a little. I get shit brought up about me in threads I haven't even posted in, just figured a little fair play is well within the unspoken rules of decorum in this forum. Don't like it? I'll turn around in an instant if you want to get some standards around here.
Nor is your behavior of putting evil thoughts into the minds of people who don't share your view of the world. I don't know why your philosophy and logical process is so weak it requires you to think people who disagree are full of hate and bigotry - but I will say it's an indication that maybe you should be a lot less judgmental and actually study the issues independently rather than regurgitate talking points. Get out of your bubble world.
But lets get back on this racial thing. Breitbart has a timeline of the media coverage that desperately tried to paint Zimmerman as the poster child for white racism: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/07/13/Media-Zimmerman-Coverage-Rap-Sheet
Problem is, Zimmerman is Peruvian. His great-grandfather had very dark skin. Zimmerman comes from one of the most multi-racial families in America.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...-grandparents-would-have-looked-lot-george-zi
George Zimmerman's great-grandfather holding George Zimmerman's mother when she was a toddler.
George Zimmerman saw a young guy wearing a dark hoodie walking close to houses on a rainy night, in a neighborhood that had a recent rash of break-ins committed by young guys likely wearing Martin's style of clothing and around Martin's age. Given he has his own history wearing county orange, he might have thought Martin was casing houses from stories he heard in hail or general knowledge of criminal behavior. So he called the police via the 911 dispatcher.
The dispatcher's suggestions ("you don't have to do that") are not a command, and don't even fit the structure of one. Following them or not following them is not "illegal" as one poster put it. - And incidentally, Sharpton is now going around trying to rile up riots (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/07/15/NBCs-Al-Sharpton-Plans-Protest-in-100-Cities) on the [unstated by him] basis that police are part of the problem. Zimmerman doesn't follow a supposed police command so he's doing something illegal, but riots will be held in part on the basis police commands are inherently unjust towards black people.
More to the point Zimmerman didn't even give Martin's race until asked to by the dispatcher. NBC edited that tape to make it look otherwise and fuel the white racism false narrative, but the fact is he thought Martin was acting suspicious probably on the basis of what clothes he was wearing and how close he was walking to the houses. Martin was in Zimmerman's neighborhood. Zimmerman has every right to walk around there ask people there what they are up to. What I imagine happened is that Zimmerman tried to talk to Martin after the call just to explain that he'd called the dispatcher and was waiting for the police, just to be safe given the neighborhood has had a bunch of break-ins recently. You can question the wisdom of confronting someone you just called the police on, and maybe that's what set off the physical altercation. Only Zimmerman has the potential of knowing, and who knows what trauma he suffered altered his memory of that night.
The other problem is Purple Drank. (http://www.examiner.com/article/trayvon-s-skittles-arizona-tea-and-something-called-purple-drank) The night of the incident Martin had Skittles and a can of Arizona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail [that is the product name, spare me the hyperventilating] - which are two ingredients in the Purple Drank mixture (the other being cough syrup [Codeine]). If what I suggested above and Zimmerman tried to talk to Martin and explain he called the police just to see if Martin knew anything, and Martin was holding 2/3rds of the ingredients for Purple Drank - whether he was going to make it or not - he might have panicked thinking the police would arrest him for that and that's when the beating started.
Now, Martin had trouble in school as well. In fact he was suspended from Krop High School in Miami-Dade county and he was living with his father's girlfriend the night of the incident. There's an article pointing out that because of Miami-Dade school system's attempt to improve their crime statistics through bureaucratic redefinition, some of Martin's criminal behaviors went uncorrected as they were redefined to disciplinary actions. (http://spectator.org/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-crime-school-miami) Martin doesn't live in Sanford, unfortunately his family life is not as good as I imagine he and everyone looking into this wishes it were.
As I said before, Zimmerman also had brushes with the law, and the most popular photo of Zimmerman in the media was in his "county orange" jumpsuit mugshot.
Bottom Line:
Neither of these guys are saints. Both of them had bad judgement that night, and it ended up getting one of them killed. The problem is that in the aftermath people are being stupid and insisting that calling the police is racist, following a guy wearing form-concealing clothes who isn't from your neighborhood is racist, and being overzealous in trying to protect your community after a rash of break-ins is racist.
People would rather call anything racist that deal with the fact that walking around at night in a neighborhood that has break-ins wearing the same clothes and fitting the same general description of the suspects is going to earn you scrutiny if the neighborhood watch captain is making the rounds. The people crying racism seem to think the ONLY thing that might cause suspicion is Martin's skin color, when the fact is his clothing and behavior are the more likely triggers. All you have to ask yourself is - if Zimmerman saw a white kid in a hoodie that looked like he was casing houses, would he have called the dispatcher? Zimmerman seems pretty cowardly and meek, so I'd say yes.
You mean you like the unity of an unthinking mob trying to turn George Zimmerman into George Wallace? Jesus Christ also brought the unity of all walks of life to one cause when the Pharisees and their assembled supporters shouted "CRUCIFY! CRUCIFY!" during his hearing with Pontius Pilate. That behavior isn't new or even original.
Nor is your behavior of putting evil thoughts into the minds of people who don't share your view of the world. I don't know why your philosophy and logical process is so weak it requires you to think people who disagree are full of hate and bigotry - but I will say it's an indication that maybe you should be a lot less judgmental and actually study the issues independently rather than regurgitate talking points. Get out of your bubble world.
But lets get back on this racial thing. Breitbart has a timeline of the media coverage that desperately tried to paint Zimmerman as the poster child for white racism: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/07/13/Media-Zimmerman-Coverage-Rap-Sheet
Problem is, Zimmerman is Peruvian. His great-grandfather had very dark skin. Zimmerman comes from one of the most multi-racial families in America.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...-grandparents-would-have-looked-lot-george-zi
George Zimmerman's great-grandfather holding George Zimmerman's mother when she was a toddler.
George Zimmerman saw a young guy wearing a dark hoodie walking close to houses on a rainy night, in a neighborhood that had a recent rash of break-ins committed by young guys likely wearing Martin's style of clothing and around Martin's age. Given he has his own history wearing county orange, he might have thought Martin was casing houses from stories he heard in hail or general knowledge of criminal behavior. So he called the police via the 911 dispatcher.
The dispatcher's suggestions ("you don't have to do that") are not a command, and don't even fit the structure of one. Following them or not following them is not "illegal" as one poster put it. - And incidentally, Sharpton is now going around trying to rile up riots (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/07/15/NBCs-Al-Sharpton-Plans-Protest-in-100-Cities) on the [unstated by him] basis that police are part of the problem. Zimmerman doesn't follow a supposed police command so he's doing something illegal, but riots will be held in part on the basis police commands are inherently unjust towards black people.
More to the point Zimmerman didn't even give Martin's race until asked to by the dispatcher. NBC edited that tape to make it look otherwise and fuel the white racism false narrative, but the fact is he thought Martin was acting suspicious probably on the basis of what clothes he was wearing and how close he was walking to the houses. Martin was in Zimmerman's neighborhood. Zimmerman has every right to walk around there ask people there what they are up to. What I imagine happened is that Zimmerman tried to talk to Martin after the call just to explain that he'd called the dispatcher and was waiting for the police, just to be safe given the neighborhood has had a bunch of break-ins recently. You can question the wisdom of confronting someone you just called the police on, and maybe that's what set off the physical altercation. Only Zimmerman has the potential of knowing, and who knows what trauma he suffered altered his memory of that night.
The other problem is Purple Drank. (http://www.examiner.com/article/trayvon-s-skittles-arizona-tea-and-something-called-purple-drank) The night of the incident Martin had Skittles and a can of Arizona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail [that is the product name, spare me the hyperventilating] - which are two ingredients in the Purple Drank mixture (the other being cough syrup [Codeine]). If what I suggested above and Zimmerman tried to talk to Martin and explain he called the police just to see if Martin knew anything, and Martin was holding 2/3rds of the ingredients for Purple Drank - whether he was going to make it or not - he might have panicked thinking the police would arrest him for that and that's when the beating started.
Now, Martin had trouble in school as well. In fact he was suspended from Krop High School in Miami-Dade county and he was living with his father's girlfriend the night of the incident. There's an article pointing out that because of Miami-Dade school system's attempt to improve their crime statistics through bureaucratic redefinition, some of Martin's criminal behaviors went uncorrected as they were redefined to disciplinary actions. (http://spectator.org/blog/2013/07/15/trayvon-crime-school-miami) Martin doesn't live in Sanford, unfortunately his family life is not as good as I imagine he and everyone looking into this wishes it were.
As I said before, Zimmerman also had brushes with the law, and the most popular photo of Zimmerman in the media was in his "county orange" jumpsuit mugshot.
Bottom Line:
Neither of these guys are saints. Both of them had bad judgement that night, and it ended up getting one of them killed. The problem is that in the aftermath people are being stupid and insisting that calling the police is racist, following a guy wearing form-concealing clothes who isn't from your neighborhood is racist, and being overzealous in trying to protect your community after a rash of break-ins is racist.
People would rather call anything racist that deal with the fact that walking around at night in a neighborhood that has break-ins wearing the same clothes and fitting the same general description of the suspects is going to earn you scrutiny if the neighborhood watch captain is making the rounds. The people crying racism seem to think the ONLY thing that might cause suspicion is Martin's skin color, when the fact is his clothing and behavior are the more likely triggers. All you have to ask yourself is - if Zimmerman saw a white kid in a hoodie that looked like he was casing houses, would he have called the dispatcher? Zimmerman seems pretty cowardly and meek, so I'd say yes.
That is a five star buffet of ignorance and bigotry, DK. You seriously linked to an article that basically said, "that Negro would still be alive if he was just in jail where he belonged." The reason this case is a racial issue is because the defense and the media painted Martin as a low-life thugs and it worked because of the prejudice of most white Americans. You need to clear your mind of your bullshit rhetoric and take some time to seriously look at the world and try and understand the problems that minorities in America face every day. Your mind and your heart are so sealed shut it is scary.
Also, being Hispanic and having black family members does not preclude someone from prejudices. My old boss was black and he refused to hire black people because he thought they were lazy thieves. I don't think Zimmerman is racist. I think he is a wannabe cop that thought he was going to catch the burglar that the real cops had let get away. He hunted a minor while armed (only having the balls to do so because he was armed) and gunned a child down when the kid fought back.
Also, being Hispanic and having black family members does not preclude someone from prejudices. My old boss was black and he refused to hire black people because he thought they were lazy thieves. I don't think Zimmerman is racist. I think he is a wannabe cop that thought he was going to catch the burglar that the real cops had let get away. He hunted a minor while armed (only having the balls to do so because he was armed) and gunned a child down when the kid fought back.
sweeping generalizations, sweeping generalizations are all I see. Although I don't agree with everything DK is saying, that article he posted by John Nolte has actual facts and support and was written quite well. Very eye opening.
By the way Wikey, I can remember Martin was initially painted as some kind of up and coming young boy with a bright future who had been brutually murdered in the early days right after it happened (by the media obviously). Then the truth came out that he wasn't so great. I don't think DK is dismissing the problems that many minorities face, I think he's trying to show that people are overreacting to this case and making it something it's not.
By the way Wikey, I can remember Martin was initially painted as some kind of up and coming young boy with a bright future who had been brutually murdered in the early days right after it happened (by the media obviously). Then the truth came out that he wasn't so great. I don't think DK is dismissing the problems that many minorities face, I think he's trying to show that people are overreacting to this case and making it something it's not.
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