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Zoroark

Squid Ninja said:
You say it as if the player's goal is to make Zoroark stay behind his Illusion for the entire match.
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Although it is true that Zoroark will eventually be discovered, Night Burst's extra 5 base power is not worth using it over Dark Pulse, seeing as how Dark Pulse can still keep up an Illusion without the opponent identifying it.

I've noticed that there's a lot of discussion about pretending to be Infernape. Just for pewps and giggels, I made a list of all the moves the two have in common.

Anything remotely notable in bold.

Scratch
Leer
Claw Sharpen
Calm Mind
Roar
Toxic
Hidden Power
Sunny Day
Taunt
Hyper Beam
Protect
Frustration
Return
Dig
Double Team
Flamethrower
Aerial Ace
Torment
Facade
Rest
Attract
Ankle Sweep
Sing-a-Round
Focus Blast
Fling
Incinerate
Shadow Claw
Vengeance
Giga Impact
Swords Dance
Grass Knot
U-Turn
Substitute
Rock Smash
Cut
Counter
Nasty Plot
 
AriadosPerson said:
Although it is true that Zoroark will eventually be discovered, Night Burst's extra 5 base power is not worth using it over Dark Pulse, seeing as how Dark Pulse can still keep up an Illusion without the opponent identifying it.
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What could you possibly be imitating that uses Dark Pulse though?

I mean, chance are, unless that extra 5 BP gets anything specific, perfect accuracy will be better, but I don't see it playing much of a role in how well Zoroark remains disguised.
 
Not even looking at their Base Powers, I know Night Burst doesn't have 100 Accuracy. Zoroark is too frail to be using a move that might not hit as its STAB move. Plus the flinch chance means that Zoroark gets a free attack, while the drop in Accuracy means he only gets a free attack 75% of the time (assuming the effect of Night Burst even activates).

Also, it doesn't really matter if you give away Illusion after you use Nasty Plot. If you bluffed well enough, your opponent will have switched in something that can't deal with Zoroark and you get a free Dark Pulse/Focus Blast/Flamethrower as Zoroark's real counter comes in, which could be just enough damage for Zoroark to KO.

Also, I wonder if Nasty Plot/Substitute/Dark Pulse/Focus Blast could work. You bluff a Pokemon that had completely different counters to Zoroark and doesn't get Nasty Plot. You come in on a Pokemon that the bluffed Pokemon threatens and Nasty Plot as you force it out. You're opponent realizes that their current Pokemon can't deal with a +2 Zoroark and switches again as you use Substitute. Now, you have 2 attacks against your real Zoroark counter, and I have a feeling Zoroark can 2HKO anything slower than it and OHKO almost anything faster than it. The flinch hax from Dark Pulse could get you a kill as well.
 
I played a game with using an NP Zoroark as a lead disguised as Celebi, and man, did it work. Expecting a T-Wave, my opponent went to his Nattorei on my first NP, Now he probably thinks I have "HP Fire"(remember I'm disguised as Celebi" so he goes to Blissey as I NP again. I beat him with Focus Blast + Night Burst as he broke my Illusion with Shadow Ball. And then, I swept the entire team with +4 Zoroark. Bluffing teh rigth Pokemon does wonders on this guy.
 
Really guys, it's just a measly 5%. Child's play. You're not going to get OHKOed if you suddenly miss on a Psychic type or switch-in every once in a blue moon. Night Burst gives you a little extra oomph when you need it and the accuracy drop is still useful for hitting stuff on the switch-in, especially when that switch-in is Darkrai and wants to maim you with Focus Blast or Dark Void. I'd only use Dark Void over Night Burst for elaborate mind games. Otherwise, the risk is fairly minimal and I'm going to want my extra KOs.
 
DDRMaster said:
Not even looking at their Base Powers, I know Night Burst doesn't have 100 Accuracy. Zoroark is too frail to be using a move that might not hit as its STAB move. Plus the flinch chance means that Zoroark gets a free attack, while the drop in Accuracy means he only gets a free attack 75% of the time (assuming the effect of Night Burst even activates).
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Dark Pulse is 20% flinch while Night Burst is 40% acc drop.

Assuming that the opponent starts out the turn at +0 acc and gets to attack on that turn, and Zoroark is faster, the opponent has a 20% chance to not attack after Dark Pulse and a 9.5% chance to miss after a Night Burst.

Assuming that the opponent starts out the turn at +0 acc and is switching in, and Zoroark is faster, the opponent has a 20% chance to not attack after 2 Dark Pulses and a 17.6% chance to miss after 2 Night Bursts.

Assuming that the opponent starts out the turn at +0 acc and is switching in, and Zoroark is slower, the opponent has a 0% chance to not attack after a Dark Pulse and a 9.5% chance to miss after a Night Burst.

At least Night Burst has a possibility of haxing all of these options. If your opponent switches in something faster than Zoroark (like a scarfed resist), there's still that possibility that it won't be able to KO because its attack will miss.
 
Unholy said:
Dark Pulse is 20% flinch while Night Burst is 40% acc drop.

Assuming that the opponent starts out the turn at +0 acc and gets to attack on that turn, and Zoroark is faster, the opponent has a 20% chance to not attack after Dark Pulse and a 9.5% chance to miss after a Night Burst.

Assuming that the opponent starts out the turn at +0 acc and is switching in, and Zoroark is faster, the opponent has a 20% chance to not attack after 2 Dark Pulses and a 17.6% chance to miss after 2 Night Bursts.

Assuming that the opponent starts out the turn at +0 acc and is switching in, and Zoroark is slower, the opponent has a 0% chance to not attack after a Dark Pulse and a 9.5% chance to miss after a Night Burst.

At least Night Burst has a possibility of haxing all of these options. If your opponent switches in something faster than Zoroark (like a scarfed resist), there's still that possibility that it won't be able to KO because its attack will miss.
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True, but that's assuming the move they use has 100% accuracy. If they know you're a frail Zoroark, and they should when you're using Night Burst, and they try to kill you with a Focus Blast, Fire Blast, Hyrdo Pump, etc, their chances are that much worse. They both have uses. Not to mention the accuracy drop is useful if the pokemon is faster then Zoro, which with all the scarfs running around it's more than likely.

My BIGGEST question is does the Illusion break if Zoroark is hit whilst using Substitute? This is important.
 
That's something to post in the research thread, not a speculative thread.

EDIT: I meant the question of whether Illusion fades if Zoro's Sub breaks.
 
but were speculating whether dark pulse or night burst is better and if it breaks with subsititute XD

and also, if he asks a question about it HERE I think someone will answer him HERE where hes likely to see it instead of posting it in the research thread for him to find later
 
thats sad XD

it happened in a fight against N on youtube, it was a joke, though I think that this is kinda stupid for it to fail like that.

did we ever decide if dark pulse or night burst is better?
 
Also, Dark Pulse is SO much better. Why on EARTH qould you use a Dark move that immediately proves that you're using a Zoroark and not something else, it ruins your bluff without the opponent doing anything
 
Solstice said:
Also, Dark Pulse is SO much better. Why on EARTH qould you use a Dark move that immediately proves that you're using a Zoroark and not something else, it ruins your bluff without the opponent doing anything
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How many pokes actually uses dark pulse? I'm asking not trying to be rude btw.
 
Exactly which Pokemon does Illusion copy? The first post says the 2nd Pokemon in your party, but Squid Ninja seems to say that it copies the last Pokemon in your party. Does the copied Pokemon change during the match? How is it determined?
 
XienZo said:
He's saying that Zoroark appeared briefly as itself before Illusion kicked in and it changed form, so that's likely a issue with PO itself.
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Actually, it shows briefly for the user but not for the foe - a circumstance that happened when programming it and was kept as it was actually judged not harmful and even helpful in some cases.

Squid Ninja said:
IIRC, Illusion fails if that happens.
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Zowayix said:
Exactly which Pokemon does Illusion copy? The first post says the 2nd Pokemon in your party, but Squid Ninja seems to say that it copies the last Pokemon in your party. Does the copied Pokemon change during the match? How is it determined?
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It imitates the last non-fainted pokemon before the switch. Meaning if zoroark was last, it imitates nothing, otherwise it imitates the 5th slot for example if the 6th slot is koed.
 
Zowayix said:
Exactly which Pokemon does Illusion copy? The first post says the 2nd Pokemon in your party, but Squid Ninja seems to say that it copies the last Pokemon in your party. Does the copied Pokemon change during the match? How is it determined?
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It's confirmed to be whatever is currently last. First post is horribly outdated.

Edit: Ninja'd
 
I've been using a mixed lead Zoroark disguised as Espeon, to scare away suicide leads and deal with Dark-types like Tyranitar who eat a Focus Blast to the face. It actually works pretty well.
 
I was thinking about running the Nasty Plot set while hiding behind Gengar. The most common attacks to a Gengar are Psychic, Dark, and Ghost. Zoroark resists 2 and is immune to one. No idiot would explode on a Gengar, so he's safe from exploding leads too. Also, his two weaknesses, Bug and Fighting, deal 0.25 and 0 times damage to Gengar, so he'd be pretty well covered....
 
There's one problem with that, Scizor will Bullet Punch them both into oblivion. It should work just fine as long as you give it a Focus Sash. Certainly nothing's going to use Fake Out on a Gengar, anyway.
 
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