Zygarde Discussion

So I was thinking that either Zygarde-50% with Power Construct or this rumored Zygarde-100% vanilla are both going to make better Dragon Dancers than vanilla 50% forme ever was. Yes you lose 10 base speed in Complete form, but with Jolly, it still outspeeds everything up to positive-natured base 150 speed Pokemon, (and possibly Pheromosa, not sure how much difference 1 base makes at level 100,) and Adamant still outspeeds everything up to positive-natured base 130 speed mons, (and possibly Ash Greninja, again, not sure the difference 2 base would have by level 100.) In return, it becomes a fuckton easier to set up DD throughout the match due to the massive HP recovery 50% form gets at half HP / the massive HP vanilla 100% has.
 
Jibaku said:
If it's complete Zygarde they'd have referenced it that way instead of unified zygarde.

Also what's the point of creating Power Construct, and Zygarde 10% and 50% having them if it's not usable. The rest of the text doesn't seem to specifically reference Zygarde 10/50% getting Power Construct, but we know they do based off trailers. How are we getting them, then?
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I have no idea why GF let Zygarde 100% keeps the Power Construct. The 10% still be able to get Aura Break so thats why the text didn't specify its ability?

But from what I have gathered from 4chan, many emu players already said that they can keep Zygarde 100%
 
The game should have no issues keeping a hacked Zygarde-100% outside of battle, much like how you can hack Megas/Primals and keep their formes. I do wish I am wrong about the whole "Zygarde can't legally be at 100% at the start of battle", however.
 
Jibaku said:
The game should have no issues keeping a hacked Zygarde-100% outside of battle, much like how you can hack Megas/Primals and keep their formes. I do wish I am wrong about the whole "Zygarde can't legally be at 100% at the start of battle", however.
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We still have to wait until the official game to be release. Right now we can not confirm or debunk anything.

The texts from the data mine are still there. So there might be a chance that Zygarde remains at its 100% form, once you collected all the Cores and Cells. There is a mini quest where you go and collect Cores and Cells in the game

Here are the texts when you assemble Zygarde from its Cores and Cells


The Zygarde has been reassembled!
A new Zygarde has been assembled!
It’s Zygarde 10% Forme!
It’s Zygarde 50% Forme!
It’s the unified Zygarde with the Power Construct Ability!
Zygarde has gone into a Poké Ball! Zygarde has been sent to the PC!

Edited: Another In Game Photo...
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From the sound of it, the Zygarde Cube lets you create either a 10% or 50% with either Aura Break or Power Construct. The phrase "unified Zygarde" might refer to having both the blue and red cores in one Zygarde. Maybe you need both cores to access Power Construct and complete forme? (note that complete Zygarde has blue and red-coloured parts on its wing things.)

I don't think you'll be able to create a perma-compete Zygarde. Its whole gimmick is transforming when in a pinch, why make a battle mechanic for this when you can just make a complete Zygarde that has no limitations or drawbacks?

Thr fact that the cube can be used to teach it all of those moves is incredibly good news though. I'm excited for Zygarde, it's looking better and better the more we find out about it.
 
Considering that Zygarde effectively had no ability in OU before, this is going to hugely increase its viability. No power increase in Complete Forme is disappointing but the increase in HP will make it MUCH easier to accumulate boosts at lower health percentages. Also, Thousand Arrows and Thousand Waves are two very cool moves with heaps of potential. With the former, things like Skarmory/Togekiss are no longer hard counters, and it saves you from having to always lock Zygarde into Outrage on Flying types/things with Levitate. The latter, if used correctly could let Zygarde trap something and let you set up with impunity. Even without Power Construct, these two moves are going to do Zygarde some great favours.

A simple set with Dragon Dance / Outrage / Thousand Arrows / Extremespeed is still going to be solid, and getting the bulk boost at 50% would help with getting extra boosts or surviving a potential revenge kill. However, I'm also very excited about SubCoil sets, since if you can put Zygarde into Complete range and get a Coil or two, it'll be practically invincible on the physical side, and so you can afford to invest heavily in Sp. Defense. A shuffle set of Sub/Coil/Dragon Tail/Thousand Arrows could be very, VERY annoying to deal with if you're fully prepared for it, and will cause some major damage when paired with hazards. Assuming Complete form is permanent once activated for the first time in a battle (i.e. doesn't revert on healing/switching out), a RestTalk set will also be a great tank on Stall just because of how truly insane Complete forme's 216/121/95 bulk is.
 
Jibaku said:
The game should have no issues keeping a hacked Zygarde-100% outside of battle, much like how you can hack Megas/Primals and keep their formes. I do wish I am wrong about the whole "Zygarde can't legally be at 100% at the start of battle", however.
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You are actually correct. Zygarde 100% cannot be permanent....
A guy on 4chan just confirmed it with his hacked Zygarde 100%. It does not have model or animation in pokemon amie. Pikachu was used as a error handler instead of Zygarde 100%.

So the unified Zygarde might just be Zygarde 10%/50% with Power Construct.

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Kadabrium said:
I collected a full box of zygardes back in xy by fishing for shiny staryus. dunno if they will be of use this time around
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... why did I suddenly imagine you literally fishing Zygarde and discarding them because they were not shiny Staryu?

I still wonder why many of the moves Zygarde 50% could learn don't appear in the level up movepool list of 10% and 100%.

I guess it would still get Power Construct through the Ability Capsule.
 
Siggu said:
... why did I suddenly imagine you literally fishing Zygarde and discarding them because they were not shiny Staryu?

I still wonder why many of the moves Zygarde 50% could learn don't appear in the level up movepool list of 10% and 100%.

I guess it would still get Power Construct through the Ability Capsule.
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The way I understand it is that power construct and aura break are 2 different formes like battle bond greninja. you can only get one from another by dissembling them after meeting certain plot requirements.
 
Siggu said:
... why did I suddenly imagine you literally fishing Zygarde and discarding them because they were not shiny Staryu?

I still wonder why many of the moves Zygarde 50% could learn don't appear in the level up movepool list of 10% and 100%.

I guess it would still get Power Construct through the Ability Capsule.
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From what I understand is, if you cannot collect enough Cores, you might end up with Aura Break Zygarde. If you collected them all, you will have unified 10%/50% Zygarde with Power Construct

As for the other moves, Zygarde Cube will act as a tutor to teach your Zygarde those moves
 
Kadabrium said:
The way I understand it is that power construct and aura break are 2 different formes like battle bond greninja. you can only get one from another by dissembling them after meeting certain plot requirements.
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This is correct. Aura Break and Power Construct forms are completely separate in the Pokemon data.

So how does trading work? If I trade away a Zygarde at 50% and then get one back at 10%, I can't make that into 50% because I'm missing 40% of the cells? Or maybe I have 100% of them to begin with so I can do it but only once? Can I trade to receive and disassemble a box full of XY Zygardes to get 1500% of Zygarde's cells?
 
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Does Zygarde 100% keep its form if switching out/in?

Also, it'll be hard to test this until later, but: What happens if Zygarde 100% loses Power Construct? Or is Power Construct immune to removal like Wonder Guard?
 
I find the new zygarde formes to be pretty underwhelming. They said it would be more powerful yveltal and xerneas but that is not the case. Even the complete form is weak even when it comes to OU standards. Offensive stats around 100 and it got even slower. I will say the new formes arent bad by anymeans, they are not particularly impressive. Its almost like garchomp and mega garchomp. I was really hoping that one of its offensive stats was going to be at least base 160 or 170. The complete form is among the bulkiest pokemon in the game but I think this is another case where it really depends on how its ability works. If you can only have the complete form at 50% HP or lower than its really not that bulky.
 
So I'm guessing that Power Construct Zygarde sets will probably look something like this now that we've confirmed that the Zygarde Cube teaches it the good stuff.

Zygarde 10% @ Groundium Z / Dragonium Z / Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe OR 4 Atk / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Coil
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage / Extreme Speed / Dragon Tail

ZyDog's gameplan seems to be to set up as many Coils before transforming and be able to do some damage early on. Its speed tier is pretty amazing (at least in OU, probably less relevant in Ubers because of Mega Salamence, Mewtwo, Shaymin-S, etc. but still pretty good) so it can set up on quite a bit before it gets to 100%. The first EV spread with a Z-crystal seems like the best set to me atm, but the other spread could be really difficult to take down in complete form.

Zygarde 50% @ Leftovers / Groundium Z / Lum Berry
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 12 HP / 188 Atk (or Def) / 252 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful / Adamant Nature
- Substitute/Extreme Speed
- Coil
- Thousand Arrows/Waves
- Dragon Tail / Stone Edge / Extreme Speed

50% will pretty much do what it did before but better. Be a tank, set up, transform, wreck house with that near-perfect coverage.

Zygarde 10% @ Life Orb / Dragonium Z / Groundium Z / Lum Berry
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage / Substitute
- Extreme Speed / Stone Edge / Substitute
- Dragon Dance

This is gonna be fun, fun set. It can either just set up and go or function similarly to the SubCoil set and sacrifice priority/coverage. I guess the main problem to deal with without Sub though is dealing with people who will try to just take it out in one hit with ZyDog being frail and all.

Zygarde 50% can pretty much run the same two DD sets as before, just with 1000 Arrows/Waves and considering Z-Crystals and Substitute on the 3 attacks variant.

If Aura Break Zygarde gets to be tiered separately, a Dragon Dance set similar to the one above and an All-out attacking set would be cool for 10%.
 
so how early can you get Zygarde 10%? I would like to have it on my in-game team but if it happens by like...the 4th island then I might as well just go with another mon
 
I'm a little disappointed that Zygarde's HP was the only stat that got a significant boost in its Complete form, but holy crap, this thing is bulky. In fact, "bulky" doesn't even begin to describe how amazing 216/121/95 bulk is. Assuming this thing gets to stay in OU (if even for a little while), I think it has tons of defensive potential. The massive scale of its HP makes picking EV spreads a little weird, but if my math is correct, 172 HP / 120 Def / 216 SpD with a Careful nature gives it the best overall bulk. Here's just a couple of calculations to demonstrate how absurdly bulky it is:

252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 172 HP / 120 Def Zygarde: 195-230 (31.6 - 37.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 172 HP / 216+ SpD Zygarde: 205-243 (33.2 - 39.4%) -- 16.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even then, you're probably going to want to focus more on one side of the defensive spectrum rather than split up the EVs like that. Let's say you run a fully specially defensive Coil set. With that much special bulk, Specs Keldeo no longer can 3HKO with Hydro Pump or 2HKO with Icy Wind, LO Latios has a pretty good chance to miss the 2HKO with Draco Meteor, Protean Greninja can't OHKO with its STAB Ice Beam, and LO Thundurus needs Nasty Plot to have a shot at 2HKOing you with HP Ice. On the physical side (after a Coil boost), CB Terrakion only has a tiny chance to 4HKO with Close Combat, Jolly Charizard X's +1 Dragon Claw will almost never 2HKO, Mamoswine's Icicle Crash comes short of a OHKO even with an Adamant nature and a Choice Band, and Mega Medicham's High Jump Kick does about 31% max after Leftovers recovery. So yeah, this thing is ridiculous. Coil / Rest / Sleep Talk / Thousand Arrows would be terrifying for a lot of teams to face.
 
Agent Gibbs said:
I'm a little disappointed that Zygarde's HP was the only stat that got a significant boost in its Complete form, but holy crap, this thing is bulky. In fact, "bulky" doesn't even begin to describe how amazing 216/121/95 bulk is. Assuming this thing gets to stay in OU (if even for a little while), I think it has tons of defensive potential. The massive scale of its HP makes picking EV spreads a little weird, but if my math is correct, 172 HP / 120 Def / 216 SpD with a Careful nature gives it the best overall bulk. Here's just a couple of calculations to demonstrate how absurdly bulky it is:

252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 172 HP / 120 Def Zygarde: 195-230 (31.6 - 37.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 172 HP / 216+ SpD Zygarde: 205-243 (33.2 - 39.4%) -- 16.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even then, you're probably going to want to focus more on one side of the defensive spectrum rather than split up the EVs like that. Let's say you run a fully specially defensive Coil set. With that much special bulk, Specs Keldeo no longer can 3HKO with Hydro Pump or 2HKO with Icy Wind, LO Latios has a pretty good chance to miss the 2HKO with Draco Meteor, Protean Greninja can't OHKO with its STAB Ice Beam, and LO Thundurus needs Nasty Plot to have a shot at 2HKOing you with HP Ice. On the physical side (after a Coil boost), CB Terrakion only has a tiny chance to 4HKO with Close Combat, Jolly Charizard X's +1 Dragon Claw will almost never 2HKO, Mamoswine's Icicle Crash comes short of a OHKO even with an Adamant nature and a Choice Band, and Mega Medicham's High Jump Kick does about 31% max after Leftovers recovery. So yeah, this thing is ridiculous. Coil / Rest / Sleep Talk / Thousand Arrows would be terrifying for a lot of teams to face.
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tl;dr Complete Zygarde is SkarmBliss in a single Pokemon.
 
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