Where do you see all of the cune's? That's definately not what I see all the time. I see scizor and heatran on every team, usually a zappy and a skymin. Suicide leads are becoming less common IMO, and I don't see where you get cune from.
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Did Platinum improve this game?
- Thread starter Tingaling
- Start date
I hate all the Heatran's and Scizors. You can no longer sweep, Scizor just comes in and Bullet Punches your +6 attack Weavile...
Then you can't use fire moves... or else face Heatran. (though this is to a lesser extent)
More and more standards are being used, and I feel it's pretty much ruining the game. It's still fun, but Shoddy Battle is just spammed with these bog standards. Every other team is basically a "rip off team". They didn't create it, it's been done hundreds of times.
Then you can't use fire moves... or else face Heatran. (though this is to a lesser extent)
More and more standards are being used, and I feel it's pretty much ruining the game. It's still fun, but Shoddy Battle is just spammed with these bog standards. Every other team is basically a "rip off team". They didn't create it, it's been done hundreds of times.
Bog standard is something that has been present since R/B/Y. By no means are your bog standard teams required to win, they are just generally the most efficient.
Honestly, Platinum only made a few really huge changes, Outragemence, Skymin, Rotom forms, Ice Punch Lucario (not really that big though, just means Gliscor isn't a 100% counter to SD set anymore), and Bullet Punch Scizor. Sure, there are a lot more trickers out there but honestly the game hasn't changed all that much. Heatran use was already skyrocketing when Chomp got put into ubers, Platinum just added a bunch of new threats that coincidentally are easy for him to switch in on.
Trickscarfing will die down as people adjust to it, trick is just devastating right now because until this point there were only four or five pokemon in the game who could effectively abuse item manipulation. People will adjust, hell maybe Gastrodon will start seeing use as he's a pain for a lot of the common trickscarfers like Metagross to deal with and has recover coupled with that excellent typing.
Honestly, Platinum only made a few really huge changes, Outragemence, Skymin, Rotom forms, Ice Punch Lucario (not really that big though, just means Gliscor isn't a 100% counter to SD set anymore), and Bullet Punch Scizor. Sure, there are a lot more trickers out there but honestly the game hasn't changed all that much. Heatran use was already skyrocketing when Chomp got put into ubers, Platinum just added a bunch of new threats that coincidentally are easy for him to switch in on.
Trickscarfing will die down as people adjust to it, trick is just devastating right now because until this point there were only four or five pokemon in the game who could effectively abuse item manipulation. People will adjust, hell maybe Gastrodon will start seeing use as he's a pain for a lot of the common trickscarfers like Metagross to deal with and has recover coupled with that excellent typing.
I don't want to single you out Lori, but I'm just a little tired of this. I'm tired of people throwing around the "Has the metagame shifted" and "creativity is no longer competitively viable" phrases because people tend to use these phrases as their basis for their argument if they don't like the game anymore. :/
People often just throw around these terms to make them look smart or w/e, (And I'm not saying you are, this is just the first quotable stuff I've found that's not on the shoddy chat :/), and by making themselves look smart, it makes their ideas seem more logical and whatnot. Sorry, but just because you can say metagame doesn't mean you know what it means. And I'll admit right now that I don't fully understand the metagame right now.
Anyways, if you're trying to start a discussion about this, I would use more concrete examples other than just the old: "EVERY TEAM HAS SCIZOR AND HEATRAN".
How can Platinum destroy pokemon?
It just changed the metagame with other treaths to take care for maybe not into you want it
That's the same like saying D/P release overal destroyed pokemon because it added a ridicolous ammount of broken pokemons like Lucario, Garchomp,Arceus, and tons of others
Asking everyone if Platinum improved or broke the metagame is a completely subjective matter so this topic will lead to an endless spamfest
It just changed the metagame with other treaths to take care for maybe not into you want it
That's the same like saying D/P release overal destroyed pokemon because it added a ridicolous ammount of broken pokemons like Lucario, Garchomp,Arceus, and tons of others
Asking everyone if Platinum improved or broke the metagame is a completely subjective matter so this topic will lead to an endless spamfest
Lori, I think that people are still getting used to the new changes that Platinum has brought. It was a major metagame shift, yes, and people do need lots of time to adapt. Give it a couple of months and all this chaos should settle down. People are using Skymin and Scizor and Heatran because they work and they are too reluctant to try anything new. Like I said, it should die down over time.
But I do agree with you - I too am rather tired of seeing the same bog standard teams over and over and over again. I think the new additions have centralised the metagame more than it was before - we can't really tell from the size of OU because they changed the way the OU list is calculated after Garchomp was banned.
But just wait and see, the metagame will improve. If it doesn't then Smogon will likely take action to increase diversity.
EDIT: Found this in the 'How do you create a team thread':
But I do agree with you - I too am rather tired of seeing the same bog standard teams over and over and over again. I think the new additions have centralised the metagame more than it was before - we can't really tell from the size of OU because they changed the way the OU list is calculated after Garchomp was banned.
But just wait and see, the metagame will improve. If it doesn't then Smogon will likely take action to increase diversity.
EDIT: Found this in the 'How do you create a team thread':
Yep, I agree. *
Exactly. Platinum is still a developing Metagame. People are using things that they know work well as a base to test out new things. yes there are large powers in the platinum Metagame, but there were in DP (Garchomp anyone?)
People will always counter the threats that are working well, and there will always be centralising forces in the developing Metagame. FOr Example, how is the decline of Heavy Stall a problem. I always found playing against Stall much less fun than playing in a fast paced Metagame such as the current Platinum Metagame. If you want to enjoy a game you have to play the Metagame up to an extent. Try things out and try to find new ways to have fun in the new Metagame. Chucking Trick on something that people may not realise etc...
If you really don't like the game stop playing it. IMO platinum has been a nice change from the DP Metagame, and none of us can yet decide whether Platinum is better than DP :/
People will always counter the threats that are working well, and there will always be centralising forces in the developing Metagame. FOr Example, how is the decline of Heavy Stall a problem. I always found playing against Stall much less fun than playing in a fast paced Metagame such as the current Platinum Metagame. If you want to enjoy a game you have to play the Metagame up to an extent. Try things out and try to find new ways to have fun in the new Metagame. Chucking Trick on something that people may not realise etc...
If you really don't like the game stop playing it. IMO platinum has been a nice change from the DP Metagame, and none of us can yet decide whether Platinum is better than DP :/
the only thing i dont like is the fact that if you want to make a "diferent" team. meaning by this not making it exactly as the other ones. you have to have atleast a way to prevent all the mentioned above. Trick, etc. etc.
i have been thinking lately about how to make a team which completely differs from standart, but it has been kinda dificult xD!
but n e ways, i like the improovements it has had like adding some new moves and all that because now, the metagame has shifted a lot. and it may happen what it happened with DP, at first everybody started to think of the metagame in one way, and suddenly, everybody began to play an offensive metagame.
Platinum Balances the defense with the offense making defensive pokemon being able to counter attack and speedy "strong" pokémons having support moves for themselves.
Last veredict. liked it, just have to get used to it xD!
i have been thinking lately about how to make a team which completely differs from standart, but it has been kinda dificult xD!
but n e ways, i like the improovements it has had like adding some new moves and all that because now, the metagame has shifted a lot. and it may happen what it happened with DP, at first everybody started to think of the metagame in one way, and suddenly, everybody began to play an offensive metagame.
Platinum Balances the defense with the offense making defensive pokemon being able to counter attack and speedy "strong" pokémons having support moves for themselves.
Last veredict. liked it, just have to get used to it xD!
Uggh I hate to even mention this but it seems to me (theorymon here) that maybe Garchomp might balance the metagame now. He can take care of Scizor, Tran, & Mence w/ Equake/Outrage respectively.
Of course like it's been said we should wait until the meta stabalizes. IMO this should be the first test though if it stays stale.
Of course like it's been said we should wait until the meta stabalizes. IMO this should be the first test though if it stays stale.
Of course Garchomp balances the metagame. To his own side.
Well, Scizor and Zapdos have improved a bit, so they're bound to be seen more. Heatran's increased usage's from Garchomp's removal , so it's nothing really new. Suicune? I haven't seen one recently, actually.
Yeah, they kind of overdid it with all of the new Tricksters. (Poor Alakazam <=/ ) I usually find myself carrying a choice user to deal with it, but it's not a surefire "counter" to Trick...
I think the changes are actually nice. Scizor got more popular for one thing (although, it probably wont last for too long), and although Outrage Mence is powerful, it's still managable (Unlike Garchomp). As for creativity, it's not that one can't be creative, but while doing so, they have to be aware of the current threats their team will have to face and develop strategies to deal with them.
As far as the changes go, I'm fine with it as is. I like the new Rotom forms (pretty useful imo) the most out of the upgrades Platinum brought. What I dislike mostly is Skymin's ability to literally hax you to death with Seed Flare and Air Slash, but at least there are ways to deal with that (though they are a bit few in number).
Things should settle as time passes, or at least thats what I think...
Yeah, they kind of overdid it with all of the new Tricksters. (Poor Alakazam <=/ ) I usually find myself carrying a choice user to deal with it, but it's not a surefire "counter" to Trick...
I think the changes are actually nice. Scizor got more popular for one thing (although, it probably wont last for too long), and although Outrage Mence is powerful, it's still managable (Unlike Garchomp). As for creativity, it's not that one can't be creative, but while doing so, they have to be aware of the current threats their team will have to face and develop strategies to deal with them.
As far as the changes go, I'm fine with it as is. I like the new Rotom forms (pretty useful imo) the most out of the upgrades Platinum brought. What I dislike mostly is Skymin's ability to literally hax you to death with Seed Flare and Air Slash, but at least there are ways to deal with that (though they are a bit few in number).
Things should settle as time passes, or at least thats what I think...
Personally, I'm like the Scizor improvement.
However, I don't like seeing such a centralised metagame (Skymin, Heatran, Zapdos and Gyara are the ones that annoy me) and Trick abusers everywhere. And spinners, despite SR popularity, aren't effective due to Rotoms and Gengars being everywhere.
As a result, I havn't played OU and Suspect for a while and concentrated solely on Ubers. Maybe when my work dies down, I might go back to OU and start UU.
However, I don't like seeing such a centralised metagame (Skymin, Heatran, Zapdos and Gyara are the ones that annoy me) and Trick abusers everywhere. And spinners, despite SR popularity, aren't effective due to Rotoms and Gengars being everywhere.
As a result, I havn't played OU and Suspect for a while and concentrated solely on Ubers. Maybe when my work dies down, I might go back to OU and start UU.
Someone should really start a pure D/P Server on Shoddy, I remember Magmortified talking about it just before Pt was released.
It would be nice to have the option to play without the new stuff.
It would be nice to have the option to play without the new stuff.
What for tough? We have to move on, I mean if you are just doing it for fun then I understand, but you have to get used to stuff like this.
How do you think people from ADV felt when they found out a lot of shit that was changed in DP? And still with that, they have to adjust to it, and they did.
To be honest, i think the Metagame is going to switch sooner or later when people finally find something that counters the eternal Heatran/Scizor combo.
In every single generation, (starting from ADV), the Metagame has always been switching. Stall --> Bulky Offensive --> Speedy Offensive --> Stall (repeat repeat). Sooner or later someone will find a counter, post a team, and bang Metagame switches.
In every single generation, (starting from ADV), the Metagame has always been switching. Stall --> Bulky Offensive --> Speedy Offensive --> Stall (repeat repeat). Sooner or later someone will find a counter, post a team, and bang Metagame switches.
Yea, pretty much for fun. Really if you don't play Pokemon for fun then.. why are you playing it? Its not like you get money or anything... Sure there is the joy of winning, but thats included in "fun".
So if some people find the pre-Pt metagame more fun it would be nice to have a place that they could play. I find SkyMin (and to a lesser extent the mass of trick users) really, really annoying. If it ends up staying in OU I would happily switch to a pure DP server for battleing.
I think we should let the hype die down before drawing any conclusions.
The perceived centralisation caused by Platinum may very well just be a phase, rather than the metagame going down the gutter (depending on who you ask) indefinitely.
The perceived centralisation caused by Platinum may very well just be a phase, rather than the metagame going down the gutter (depending on who you ask) indefinitely.
And, if the metagame really ends up fucked up, completely overcentralizing and boring, somebody might discover the new TyraniBoah. Or we could get something banned, like Garchomp did. Or maybe a pokémon could even com down to OU, like huh Ho-oh? Heatran, Scizor and Skymin aren't going to do much to it!
Actually it doesn't counter Scizor and Skymin as well as you'd think... Not to burst your bubble or anything. If you can keep Stealth Rock off the field it at least works against Scizor. :P
but I'm not one to disagree about it, of course!
Gah, how could I forget Stealth Rock. But you got my point, it seems.
The Platinum additions were enough to entice me back to competitive battling (albeit briefly); read into that what you will. I think the additions are by and large balanced, and favourable for the game overall. In my opinion, he Rotom forms in particular are an excellent addition to the metagame due to their versatility in both offense and defense.
Anything that shakes things up and causes debate is surely a good thing. I would argue that now is an opportunity to innovate if you feel teams are predictable.
Anything that shakes things up and causes debate is surely a good thing. I would argue that now is an opportunity to innovate if you feel teams are predictable.
I think it improved it over all. People are just going through a stage using what they know works. SD/BPScizor is a lot better now, but not too overpowered if you know how to deal with him. And all of the good, new Plat movesets obviously haven't been discovered yet. We don't know what other counters to these threats are possible.
TC you do realize that scizor has like 20 counters in OU/BL right? Heatran can be stopped by easy prediction and suicune isnt even used as much as you claim it to be. We shouldn't be complaining about a metagame where people lack the skill, creativity, and prediction to beat common threats. If you want to set up and sweep with weavile, make sure your opponents doesn't have scizor left when you use it or make sure its in ko range of Ice Shard. Simply put, you should be prepared for these threats instead of complaining and letting them ruin you team and you "fun"