Haha, sorry to sound so hostile in that case :-p
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Shaymin-S Vote
- Thread starter Aeolus
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To clarify to people, Heatran is not a counter when it is unable to take Earth Power. You make your team and force yourself to use Scarf Heatran as your Skymin counter. Your opponent either predicts your switch to Heatran and uses Earth Power or Substitutes on your switch. And then using Earth Power. Ruining your Heatran and your Skymin counter.
What's your point? There is no one pokemon who can counter every salamence either. A lot of pokemon can beat their typical counters. Can you think of any pokemon you'd be all that happy switching into an infernape?
This discussion has been beaten into the ground. We all know skymin's strengths and weaknesses. Let's just wait and see what people vote for.
This discussion has been beaten into the ground. We all know skymin's strengths and weaknesses. Let's just wait and see what people vote for.
I voted OU. I am not too happy with some of the reasons some people had to offer for their reasoning to vote Uber, but eh to each their own.
If you have trouble adjusting or get haxed by it a couple times then try to find a strategy that will deal with it (Blissey, Dragonite, Zapdos, Skarmory, Scarf Jirachi, Scarf/Agility/Magnet Rise (lol) Metagross, Regice, Scarf Cresselia, etc. take your pick). Seed Flare has 8 PP and 85% accuracy, not exactly too hard to stall out. I would suggest to those who still have yet to vote to think logically and not like "Oh I got beat due to hax" because that is not the case for everyone else. Think about how this will overall affect the metagame as a whole and not just a personal opinion why or why not something is Uber.
The thing is when people only spend like only an hour to be able to get qualified to vote they are probably not as familiar with the metagame shifts as someone who has been playing with or against it the whole time it has been a suspect on the ladder. Some users even admit to only playing for a couple hours in the name check thread. To be honest I think the deviation should be like 55, 50 or even lower because you would be able to see players could consistantly play at that level and not just some one night stand at the very last moment.
And for the nitpickers...
My Reasons for voting OU
If you have trouble adjusting or get haxed by it a couple times then try to find a strategy that will deal with it (Blissey, Dragonite, Zapdos, Skarmory, Scarf Jirachi, Scarf/Agility/Magnet Rise (lol) Metagross, Regice, Scarf Cresselia, etc. take your pick). Seed Flare has 8 PP and 85% accuracy, not exactly too hard to stall out. I would suggest to those who still have yet to vote to think logically and not like "Oh I got beat due to hax" because that is not the case for everyone else. Think about how this will overall affect the metagame as a whole and not just a personal opinion why or why not something is Uber.
The thing is when people only spend like only an hour to be able to get qualified to vote they are probably not as familiar with the metagame shifts as someone who has been playing with or against it the whole time it has been a suspect on the ladder. Some users even admit to only playing for a couple hours in the name check thread. To be honest I think the deviation should be like 55, 50 or even lower because you would be able to see players could consistantly play at that level and not just some one night stand at the very last moment.
And for the nitpickers...
My Reasons for voting OU
- Seed Flare has low PP
- SR weak
- If you want to run a 101 HP SubSeed set you lose out on a lot of attack power this set is also beaten by teams that can phaze it out pretty easily and its not like it can Subsitute forever
- No +2 stat Boosting move, only Growth (Garchomp has Swords Dance)
- Rock, Fire, 4x Ice, Poison weak (three of which are commonly seen in OU)
- No solid and practical recovery move (running Synthesis in Sandstorms isn't very practical...)
- Below average Defenses
- Not the best team player; using it as a cleric or trying to heal your team through Leech Seed doesn't work too well because it isn't that bulky
- Tiny movepool (look at all of the moves Deoxys can learn) therefore you know what to expect and can work around it
I didn't say there was a strategic way to use luck. I simply said that in order for Skymin to be effective it needs luck to work. It is not a consistent pokemon, and over time it will let you down many more times than it will pull through for you.Arin said:
Once again, read my post. 'Laugh at my statements' all you want, but don't put words in my mouth. At no point did I say that Heatran is a Skymin counter. I said it can 'deal with Skymin'. Heatran can switch into half of Skymin's moves with impunity and threaten a KO back. Saying that Heatran can't deal with Skymin because of Earth Power is saying that Gliscor can't deal with Lucario because of Ice Punch, or that Gyarados can't deal with Heracross because of Stone Edge, or that Rotom can't deal with Scizor because of Night Slash...Arin said:
Show me where I say Scizor is a perfect Skymin counter. Show me where I say Zapdos is a 'perfect OU counter'. Until then, find some other way to poke a hole in my argument.Arin said:
This is really ridiculous. It is like saying that Cresselia or Porygon2 gets raped by Mixmence so one should never switch it into a Salamence. So what if a set can beat one of its counters? With a subseeding set Skymin may beat Blissey, but then there is no way it can get past Skarmory, Crobat, or any manner of other pokemon.Arin said:
And for your information, sweeper Skymin (i.e. the 75.7% of Skymin who didn't run Leech Seed) has approximately a 12% chance of beating Blissey one on one.
"Forcing something like Ice Beam on Blissey while some other move may be more viable to your is forcing decentralizing."
Heatran is centralising because it forces SpecsMence to run HP Ground or Hydro Pump. Bronzong and Skarmory are centralizing because they force sweepers to run Fire attacks for steels in addition to ground attacks. And you can't seriously be saying that it is for Skymin alone that Blissey runs Ice Beam; it is extremely useful for many other threats as well.
Next time, I'd really appreciate it if you read my post before trying to rip it apart.
Thank you.
This is like saying Ho-oh is OU....
I didn't know 2 Pokemons were considered as "so many." (sarcasm)
Heatran has solid counters like Suicune or Vaporeon. Skarmory and Gliscor obviously have solid counters.
Why would you give Specsmence HP Ground or Hydro Pump while Draco Meteor can do decent damage with Specs on Heatran switch? It depends if you want your Specsmence to counter Heatran if your team lacks Heatran counter. That is another story.
Guys, could you please take this discussion elsewhere? It's not like the OTHER 2 Skymin discussion threads have disappeared, so go and discuss this shit over there.
This thread is for voting. People are allowed to state their reasons for voting the way they are. If you want to argue with them, then do it by PM or in one of the other discussion threads. People are very unlikely to listen to you anyway. They've already either voted (so it doesn't matter what you say to them), or they've decided their vote and just haven't voted yet. If people are still going off of theorymon, then that's an entire problem on its own.
Please, take the discussion to the discussion threads, it's derailing this one...
This thread is for voting. People are allowed to state their reasons for voting the way they are. If you want to argue with them, then do it by PM or in one of the other discussion threads. People are very unlikely to listen to you anyway. They've already either voted (so it doesn't matter what you say to them), or they've decided their vote and just haven't voted yet. If people are still going off of theorymon, then that's an entire problem on its own.
Please, take the discussion to the discussion threads, it's derailing this one...
Not exactly, Ho-Oh has Recover and Roost, tied for 4th best SDef in the game, good movepool (can run physical or special versions), better HP, Calm Mind (technically not a +2 move, but its still better than Growth).
Only thing similar is its rock weak.
Anyways back on topic it does seem like since this is so different people do not know how to exactly approach it. So I continue to encourage people who are yet to vote to think and heavily analyze why Skymin would be uber or not.
Voted OU
SR really really hinders the scarf versions
The 3 attack sub one can be dealt with
Like others said, the SubSeed version has checks
The metagame is not changed in any way, shape, or form like it was with Deo-E and Chomp
Besides, special attackers have to deal with Bliss, and this is one of the few of them that has a fighting chance.
SR really really hinders the scarf versions
The 3 attack sub one can be dealt with
Like others said, the SubSeed version has checks
The metagame is not changed in any way, shape, or form like it was with Deo-E and Chomp
Besides, special attackers have to deal with Bliss, and this is one of the few of them that has a fighting chance.
Voted OU. The margin is getting wider... What would the vote have to be to be deemed "too close"?
Uber, I'll try to make it short
It isn't overpowering in the same way that garchomp is uber, but it still has to be worked around.
The best you can do is hope to check this threat, and even then some of the checks are fucked if skymin has that sub up at the end of a ko (scarftran).
The overcentralization is there, but not quite as obvious. Scarftran was already popular, but usage coulda/woulda dropped if it didn't have to be around to check skymin. Even physical defense oriented zapdos falls to hp ice if it switches into SR and gets flinched twice, which actually happens all the fucking time.
It doesn't even matter that it is weak to SR, all it ever needs to do is switch in once and that can be endgame.
Lastly, the luck factor. No, luck isn't enough grounds for uber on its own. But when something this good gets this much luck this often, it's unstoppable. Between the drop rate on seed flare and the flinch rate on air slash, this thing is the absolute king of hax.
Lastly, I don't see the problem with changing votes if someone voted wrong. I mean, wouldn't you rather have this done right? Yeah it's dumb of people to vote wrong, but are you honestly going to punish the community for their misclick?
It isn't overpowering in the same way that garchomp is uber, but it still has to be worked around.
The best you can do is hope to check this threat, and even then some of the checks are fucked if skymin has that sub up at the end of a ko (scarftran).
The overcentralization is there, but not quite as obvious. Scarftran was already popular, but usage coulda/woulda dropped if it didn't have to be around to check skymin. Even physical defense oriented zapdos falls to hp ice if it switches into SR and gets flinched twice, which actually happens all the fucking time.
It doesn't even matter that it is weak to SR, all it ever needs to do is switch in once and that can be endgame.
Lastly, the luck factor. No, luck isn't enough grounds for uber on its own. But when something this good gets this much luck this often, it's unstoppable. Between the drop rate on seed flare and the flinch rate on air slash, this thing is the absolute king of hax.
Lastly, I don't see the problem with changing votes if someone voted wrong. I mean, wouldn't you rather have this done right? Yeah it's dumb of people to vote wrong, but are you honestly going to punish the community for their misclick?
UBER
Is there any chance of Battulz vote being changed btw?
He told me like his comp froze up or something and accidentally voted OU before the screen fully loaded. Which is an honest mistake. The voting is supposed to be what people want anyway, so it pretty much should be a tie ball game.
He told me like his comp froze up or something and accidentally voted OU before the screen fully loaded. Which is an honest mistake. The voting is supposed to be what people want anyway, so it pretty much should be a tie ball game.
VOTED UBER!
AND IF I COULD WITH MY 4 ALTS..
I WOULD VOTE
UBER
UBER
UBER
UBER!!
AND IF I COULD WITH MY 4 ALTS..
I WOULD VOTE
UBER
UBER
UBER
UBER!!
Great Sage
Banned deucer.
Wow, this thing is close... (I voted)
voted uber because: i do what i want now stop reading my invisible secret writing
Actually, skymin gets sword dance with half decent attack. Obviously it won't be as common, but its still an option. Come to think of it, it was the only skymin variant I DIDN'T see.
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