TAY
You and I Know
At a glance:
Hello Everyone! Since my computer is currently not working and I do not have access to shoddy, I am posting the team I have been using on the suspect ladder (for those who aren't aware, my RMT posts are usually tl;dr - and I would appreciate you reading the whole thing). Of course, I do have a purpose in posting such a useful team: I wish to present my argument for why I believe Latias is uber. I obviously realize that the test isn't over yet; however, as someone who has spent quite a bit of time playing the ladder I feel that I can form a valid opinion at this time (and I have been known to change my mind!). Anyway, my main argument against Latias is that it strongly centralizes the game around Dragon and steel Types. As evidence I am presenting my own Suspect team, which consists of simply 3 Steels and 3 Dragons. TBH I find it almost laughable that such a childish strategy should even work, but it obviously has, since I have been dominating the suspect test so far (for those who don't know, Jane Austin is my alt, I have been #1 on the ladder for most of the test even though I stopped laddering two days ago (albeit not by much anymore), and I am embarrassed to say that the misspelling was not intentional). Even if Dragon and Steel are the most "broken" types, it strikes me as a very unhealthy metagame in which the dominant strategy involves using only two types. I admit this team is an extreme example, but I would challenge any player to make a successful suspect team which does not involve 2-3 steels (this alone is evidence of a problem) and at least one dragon. It does make sense theoretcally, though: Latias and Salamence see frequent use because they are powerful, and make fighting type attacks less viable; Latias makes Heatran and especially Infernape less useful. Those factors allow steels to run rampant, along with the fact that they are the only dragon resists in the game. Magnezone in particular becomes useful since it provides surefire removal of those same steels.
The basic idea here is that Magnezone takes out the steels would stop my dragons from spamming their STAB attacks, and helps Scizor sweep as well. Heatran is useful for mind games as well as its great resistances and powerful Fire Blast. Besides that and the detail I will go into later, this is really just a bulky offense team. The only difference is that I am able to pull it off with only two types which happen to have a great deal of synergy.
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Heatran @ Shuca Berry
252 Speed / 252 SpAtk / 4 Atk
Ability: Flash Fire
Naive Nature (+Speed -SpDef)
-Fire Blast
-Stealth Rock
-Earth Power
-Explosion
For a team that doesn't care about the opponent getting SR up, this is a monstrous lead. I played around with the idea of using focus sash instead, but eventually decided on shuca since I want to be able to switch back in after my opponent lays rocks and bluff choice scarf (or just explode), and it's almost impossible to OHKO without Close Combat or a STAB Earthquake. The beauty of this lead is that most players will assume I am running choice scarf and not Taunt it for fear of not being able to lay rocks, and trick doesn't bother me since I just get a scarftran. This also causes opponents to occasionally stay in as I Fire Blast, and allows me to bluff Choice Scarf later in the game - something that has been vital more than you would think. I chose Naive over Hasty because Outrage is a whole lot harder to take than Dragon Pulse.
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Kingdra @ Lum Berry
252 Speed / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Ability: Swift Swim
Adamant Nature (+Atk -Speed)
-Dragon Dance
-Substitute
-Waterfall
-Outrage
Kingdra is here for me to reap the benefits of its water type (hi Metagross), as well as enjoy the almost-unresisted Water / Dragon STAB (Kingdra beats Empoleons who switch in anyway). The Sub + Lum Berry combo is actually really useful, since I can DD as they Twave or WoW and then sub the next turn as they try to do it again. Lum Berry of course will also cure my confusion after using Outrage, which is a huge aid to sweeping, and prevents people from "stalling out" outrage for confusion. Another handy thing about Kingra is that its lone Draon weakness is resisted by half my team, so I usually have a safe play when it is out. Kingdra is sadly my best switch-in to Gyarados, since it cannot OHKO even with LO Earthquake and I can deal enough damage between Outrage and SR to revenge kill with Scizor if need be.
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Salamence @ Choice Band
252 Speed / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Ability: Intimidate
Jolly Nature (+Speed -SpAtk)
-Outrage
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
With Magnezone on the team CB Salamence is incredibly powerful. Usually I use Dragon Claw at first to scout for Steel types so that I can send out Magnezone (and if they don't send in a steel they will take a hefty amount of damage). I don't use fire fang because the damage it deals is pretty pitiful against Skarmory, and I have Magnezone anyway. It know it seems silly to use CB Dragon Claw when it is the same power as non-CB Outrage, but being able to switch out and save Salamence is horribly valuable. Since all of his weaknesses are resisted by steel I can usually find a safe switch, and come in later to clean up with outrage. I run Jolly mainly to avoid being outsped by other Salamences and CM Jirachi, but you would be surprised at how much of the metagame Salamence actually outruns. With Latias running around everywhere no one bothers to run Infernape; Gengar is a thing of the past due to all the Steels used to stop Latias and the Outrage users; and that leaves Azelf, Starmie, and Weavile as the only pokemon in the top 30 usage spots to outspeed Salamence. And with Azelf almost exclusively being a suicide lead and Weavile being laughably easy for my team to handle, Salamence is almost always faster than whatever switches into him - and when you're using a choice band with 135 base attack that matters a lot.
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Latias @ Leftovers
252 Speed / 128 SpAtk / 128 HP
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature (+Speed -Atk)
-Calm Mind
-Recover
-Refresh
-Dragon Pulse
With the ability to switch into pretty much any Infernape, Zapdos, or status user set, Latias solves a lot of the problems that offensive teams commonly run into. I know a few people have been running Substitute to stop status and block Pursuit from TTar and Scizor, but I really appreciate the ability to actually switch into status users without concern. And honestly I have gotten into the habit of just double-switching straight out of Latias into Magnezone or Salamence, since it seems like everyone is carrying a hard Latias counter. Between this and Salamence and Magnezone it is pretty difficult for me to lose to defensive or even balanced teams, since no special wall can stop it bar exploders (The 128 EVs allow a definite 2HKO on now-standard 148 / 0 Blissey, though people have been using extra SpDef on suspect) and it is faster than just about everything that switches into it. It might seems weird to run max Speed on what would normally be a defensive set, but I really need to stay on the offensive with this team, and it is always helpful to outspeed opposing HP Fire Latias (since that likely means Scizor didn't work out as a counter).
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Scizor @ Leftovers
232 Speed / 252 Atk / 24 HP
Ability: Technician
Adamant Nature (+Atk -SpAtk)
-Bullet Punch
-Superpower
-Swords Dance
-U-Turn
Caelum makes fun of me for using Swords Dance + U-Turn but I swear the set works! Rather than be a late game sweeper, it is designed to come in early and U-Turn out of the counters that switch into it, since Zapdos and Rotom cannot continually take U-Turn + SR damage, and Heatran always fears Superpower. Leftovers allow it to do this as much as possible, and I don't really need life orb to push through the resisting counters since they will likely be gone by the time I attempt a Bullet Punch sweep. 232 Speed beats Rotoms trying to beat adamant TTar (I think, I wasn't able to export to text since I'm not on my own computer), so I can get some decent damage and save Scizor even if I Swords Dance on their switch. This is my primary switch-in to Latias since most do not carry HP Fire, and U-Turn will put me in an advantageous position regardless of my opponent's play.
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Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
252 Speed / 252 SpAtk / 4 Atk
Ability: Magnet Pull
Naive Nature (+Speed -SpDef)
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power [Fire]
-Flash Canon
-Explosion
Magnezone really makes the team work. It takes out the steels that resist Outrage and Dragon Pulse and a couple of Scizor's counters as well. Not to mention it has amazing Defense to take outrages and can explode to get rid of problem pokes. Flash Canon is there for everyone who likes to switch TTar in from their bulky waters, and the SpDef drop has come in handy as well.
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Known Problems:
~Gyarados: can be a huge pain. After it DDs my only real option is Kingdra. I try not to let it DD in the first place, but with two choice users it is sometimes impossible to avoid.
~Substitute Latias: The only people who consistently beat me were the few that used this monster. I'm not sure why it hasn't caught on yet, but Scizor can't continually switch into SR damage and Dragon Pulse, and if they have a good scizor counter I'm in trouble.
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Thanks for reading, everyone! This actually didn't end up being that long. Anyway, feel free to ask questions and obviously make suggestions!
Hello Everyone! Since my computer is currently not working and I do not have access to shoddy, I am posting the team I have been using on the suspect ladder (for those who aren't aware, my RMT posts are usually tl;dr - and I would appreciate you reading the whole thing). Of course, I do have a purpose in posting such a useful team: I wish to present my argument for why I believe Latias is uber. I obviously realize that the test isn't over yet; however, as someone who has spent quite a bit of time playing the ladder I feel that I can form a valid opinion at this time (and I have been known to change my mind!). Anyway, my main argument against Latias is that it strongly centralizes the game around Dragon and steel Types. As evidence I am presenting my own Suspect team, which consists of simply 3 Steels and 3 Dragons. TBH I find it almost laughable that such a childish strategy should even work, but it obviously has, since I have been dominating the suspect test so far (for those who don't know, Jane Austin is my alt, I have been #1 on the ladder for most of the test even though I stopped laddering two days ago (albeit not by much anymore), and I am embarrassed to say that the misspelling was not intentional). Even if Dragon and Steel are the most "broken" types, it strikes me as a very unhealthy metagame in which the dominant strategy involves using only two types. I admit this team is an extreme example, but I would challenge any player to make a successful suspect team which does not involve 2-3 steels (this alone is evidence of a problem) and at least one dragon. It does make sense theoretcally, though: Latias and Salamence see frequent use because they are powerful, and make fighting type attacks less viable; Latias makes Heatran and especially Infernape less useful. Those factors allow steels to run rampant, along with the fact that they are the only dragon resists in the game. Magnezone in particular becomes useful since it provides surefire removal of those same steels.
The basic idea here is that Magnezone takes out the steels would stop my dragons from spamming their STAB attacks, and helps Scizor sweep as well. Heatran is useful for mind games as well as its great resistances and powerful Fire Blast. Besides that and the detail I will go into later, this is really just a bulky offense team. The only difference is that I am able to pull it off with only two types which happen to have a great deal of synergy.
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Heatran @ Shuca Berry
252 Speed / 252 SpAtk / 4 Atk
Ability: Flash Fire
Naive Nature (+Speed -SpDef)
-Fire Blast
-Stealth Rock
-Earth Power
-Explosion
For a team that doesn't care about the opponent getting SR up, this is a monstrous lead. I played around with the idea of using focus sash instead, but eventually decided on shuca since I want to be able to switch back in after my opponent lays rocks and bluff choice scarf (or just explode), and it's almost impossible to OHKO without Close Combat or a STAB Earthquake. The beauty of this lead is that most players will assume I am running choice scarf and not Taunt it for fear of not being able to lay rocks, and trick doesn't bother me since I just get a scarftran. This also causes opponents to occasionally stay in as I Fire Blast, and allows me to bluff Choice Scarf later in the game - something that has been vital more than you would think. I chose Naive over Hasty because Outrage is a whole lot harder to take than Dragon Pulse.
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Kingdra @ Lum Berry
252 Speed / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Ability: Swift Swim
Adamant Nature (+Atk -Speed)
-Dragon Dance
-Substitute
-Waterfall
-Outrage
Kingdra is here for me to reap the benefits of its water type (hi Metagross), as well as enjoy the almost-unresisted Water / Dragon STAB (Kingdra beats Empoleons who switch in anyway). The Sub + Lum Berry combo is actually really useful, since I can DD as they Twave or WoW and then sub the next turn as they try to do it again. Lum Berry of course will also cure my confusion after using Outrage, which is a huge aid to sweeping, and prevents people from "stalling out" outrage for confusion. Another handy thing about Kingra is that its lone Draon weakness is resisted by half my team, so I usually have a safe play when it is out. Kingdra is sadly my best switch-in to Gyarados, since it cannot OHKO even with LO Earthquake and I can deal enough damage between Outrage and SR to revenge kill with Scizor if need be.
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Salamence @ Choice Band
252 Speed / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Ability: Intimidate
Jolly Nature (+Speed -SpAtk)
-Outrage
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
With Magnezone on the team CB Salamence is incredibly powerful. Usually I use Dragon Claw at first to scout for Steel types so that I can send out Magnezone (and if they don't send in a steel they will take a hefty amount of damage). I don't use fire fang because the damage it deals is pretty pitiful against Skarmory, and I have Magnezone anyway. It know it seems silly to use CB Dragon Claw when it is the same power as non-CB Outrage, but being able to switch out and save Salamence is horribly valuable. Since all of his weaknesses are resisted by steel I can usually find a safe switch, and come in later to clean up with outrage. I run Jolly mainly to avoid being outsped by other Salamences and CM Jirachi, but you would be surprised at how much of the metagame Salamence actually outruns. With Latias running around everywhere no one bothers to run Infernape; Gengar is a thing of the past due to all the Steels used to stop Latias and the Outrage users; and that leaves Azelf, Starmie, and Weavile as the only pokemon in the top 30 usage spots to outspeed Salamence. And with Azelf almost exclusively being a suicide lead and Weavile being laughably easy for my team to handle, Salamence is almost always faster than whatever switches into him - and when you're using a choice band with 135 base attack that matters a lot.
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Latias @ Leftovers
252 Speed / 128 SpAtk / 128 HP
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature (+Speed -Atk)
-Calm Mind
-Recover
-Refresh
-Dragon Pulse
With the ability to switch into pretty much any Infernape, Zapdos, or status user set, Latias solves a lot of the problems that offensive teams commonly run into. I know a few people have been running Substitute to stop status and block Pursuit from TTar and Scizor, but I really appreciate the ability to actually switch into status users without concern. And honestly I have gotten into the habit of just double-switching straight out of Latias into Magnezone or Salamence, since it seems like everyone is carrying a hard Latias counter. Between this and Salamence and Magnezone it is pretty difficult for me to lose to defensive or even balanced teams, since no special wall can stop it bar exploders (The 128 EVs allow a definite 2HKO on now-standard 148 / 0 Blissey, though people have been using extra SpDef on suspect) and it is faster than just about everything that switches into it. It might seems weird to run max Speed on what would normally be a defensive set, but I really need to stay on the offensive with this team, and it is always helpful to outspeed opposing HP Fire Latias (since that likely means Scizor didn't work out as a counter).
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Scizor @ Leftovers
232 Speed / 252 Atk / 24 HP
Ability: Technician
Adamant Nature (+Atk -SpAtk)
-Bullet Punch
-Superpower
-Swords Dance
-U-Turn
Caelum makes fun of me for using Swords Dance + U-Turn but I swear the set works! Rather than be a late game sweeper, it is designed to come in early and U-Turn out of the counters that switch into it, since Zapdos and Rotom cannot continually take U-Turn + SR damage, and Heatran always fears Superpower. Leftovers allow it to do this as much as possible, and I don't really need life orb to push through the resisting counters since they will likely be gone by the time I attempt a Bullet Punch sweep. 232 Speed beats Rotoms trying to beat adamant TTar (I think, I wasn't able to export to text since I'm not on my own computer), so I can get some decent damage and save Scizor even if I Swords Dance on their switch. This is my primary switch-in to Latias since most do not carry HP Fire, and U-Turn will put me in an advantageous position regardless of my opponent's play.
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Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
252 Speed / 252 SpAtk / 4 Atk
Ability: Magnet Pull
Naive Nature (+Speed -SpDef)
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power [Fire]
-Flash Canon
-Explosion
Magnezone really makes the team work. It takes out the steels that resist Outrage and Dragon Pulse and a couple of Scizor's counters as well. Not to mention it has amazing Defense to take outrages and can explode to get rid of problem pokes. Flash Canon is there for everyone who likes to switch TTar in from their bulky waters, and the SpDef drop has come in handy as well.
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Known Problems:
~Gyarados: can be a huge pain. After it DDs my only real option is Kingdra. I try not to let it DD in the first place, but with two choice users it is sometimes impossible to avoid.
~Substitute Latias: The only people who consistently beat me were the few that used this monster. I'm not sure why it hasn't caught on yet, but Scizor can't continually switch into SR damage and Dragon Pulse, and if they have a good scizor counter I'm in trouble.
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Thanks for reading, everyone! This actually didn't end up being that long. Anyway, feel free to ask questions and obviously make suggestions!