I posted this in the new UU thread but I thought I may as well repost it here.
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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 3
- Thread starter Tangerine
- Start date
- Status
This is a set I've been using very extensively since the UU merge began, and occasionally in OU, although Bronzong is generally better suited to the role in that environment. I apologise if somebody has already suggested this, but I cannot find a similar set anywhere, so I might as well go ahead.
Bulky Lead Registeel
Registeel @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Careful
STEALTH ROCK
IRON HEAD
THUNDER WAVE
EARTHQUAKE/EXPLOSION/REST
EVs: 252 HP, 136 Atk, 24 SDef, 92 Def
With the great number of scouting leads in OU currently, such as Roserade and Ambipom, there are inevitably a group of Bulky leads that will attempt to counter whatever they may try to do. Although Uxie is arguably better for the job with its greater movepool and higher speed, Registeel's sturdier defences and arguably better typing gives it a niche to exploit as one of the better choices for bulkier leads.
This particular variant plays similarly to how Bronzong would in OU or to a lesser extent how Groudon would in Ubers. The basic jist of the set is to set up rocks, cripple something with a status move and then leave to fulfil walling duties later on in the game, or to simply attempt to do as much damage as possible before being forced out. Although Registeel does not have the offensive power of Groudon or the sheer unpredictability of Bronzong, it makes up for this with sheer defensive prowess and the ability to serve a purpose even in lategame. Popular leads such as Roserade and Ambipom can do very little to this, and the only common leads that can really force it out are things like Arcanine, and sometimes Uxie, who can do very little to it anyway barring TrickScarf.
A Sleep Powder Roserade lead has a 75% chance to hit Registeel once, and has just over a 50% chance to hit twice. If Registeel Paralyses it and then attacks with Iron Head, it has a 42% chance to hit on the second turn, giving Roserade an overall 31% chance to do anything, which is less likely than Aerodactyl getting Stealth Rock up against Scarf Jirachi (although admittedly Roserade has Natural Cure to allow it to come back again later on). Resistance/Immunity to both of Roserade's STABs doesn't hurt, either.
Stealth Rock is a given, as is Iron Head as its best STAB option. Thunder Wave serves to deal a crippling blow to the unwary. The last slot, however, is much more open, and is contested by a wide variety of 'filler' options. Earthquake is nice for hitting Fire-types on the switch and getting a useful 2HKO on Electrode leads. With the given EV spread you can also sometimes 2HKO overconfident, min/min Jolly Arcanine leads. Explosion deals a hefty blow for a parting shot, and also allows a free switch-in for your next Pokémon, however it is often inadvisable to cast aside something like Registeel, who can be invaluable later in the game, and whose offences are nothing spectacular in the first place. Finally, Rest is an added lifeline for an extra chance, working nicely in tandem with Chesto Berry, however leaving something like Registeel immobile is asking for trouble, and this particular Registeel is not particularly designed for sticking around for long, simply getting your team off with the upper hand. If you want a lasting Registeel, Resttalk is much more preferable. An extra support move is also feasible, but this pretty much stretches only to Rain Dance, which is set up much more easily by other Pokémon such as Electrode. Toxic can be used over Thunder Wave to hit Bulky Waters, but this is not particularly advisable. Chesto Berry is used over Lum Berry because Registeel is immune to poison and indifferent to paralysis. Freeze is extremely rare, and most Pokémon with burning moves are generally also in possession of damaging Fire moves, which are far more damaging to Registeel. It also avoids allowing Trick users to take your Thunder Waves and cure themselves. Chesto also works better than Lum when used in tandem with Rest, since the strategy is not ruined by unexpected status moves.
With the given EV spread, 252 EVs are placed in HP for durability, 136 EVs in attack ensures a 2HKO on standard min/min Timid Roserade as well as a 2HKO on Jolly min/min Arcanine with Earthquake. 24 SDef EVs and a Careful nature ensures that you survive a Modest Scarf Moltres Overheat 93.75% of the time (factoring in critical hits). This leaves you with 92 EVs to spare; I put them in Defence to take random Close Combats with greater ease; however, placing them in other areas is an option. Placing them all in Attack gives you the ability to occasionally 2HKO the standard Jolly Ambipom with Iron Head and OHKO Hasty min/min Damp Rock Electrode with Earthquake, and still allows you to survive Jolly Max Attack Arcanine's Flare Blitz, but this could be seen as forfeiting Registeel's incredible defences in favour of its mediocre offences.
Another thing Registeel and Bronzong share is the unfortunate susceptibility to Taunt - however, with Froslass and Crobat gone from nUU, the only common Taunt leads are Ambipom and Electrode, both of whom Registeel is more than capable of dealing with, given the appropriate moveset.
Prior to the first suspect removal, inevitable comparisons were made between this Registeel and its cousin, Regirock, doing the same thing. On the one hand Regirock had a more powerful STAB move that hit Froslass, Crobat AND Abomasnow for super-effective damage coming off a higher attack stat, but on the other hand Registeel had better special defence on top of indifference to all the aforementioned Pokémon’s' STAB moves as well as a reliable STAB move that hit two of the three for super-effective damage anyway. However, currently Registeel is almost always the better choice for the ability to be of more use later in the battle. Outside of this, the two are almost equal, Registeel taking on Roserade more easily and Regirock taking on Arcanine more easily.
The main reason to use this over Steelix is, generally, an increased capacity to take special hits (Steelix has to run an ungodly amount of Special Defence and HP EVs to even have a shot at not being 2HKOed by Timid Roserade's Grass Knot) which is a very valuable asset in this metagame. Steelix's increased defence is of little significance since Ambipom is doing very little to it or Registeel anyway, and its STAB Earthquake doesn't help as much as one would think against most leads (Electrode being an exception). The ability to use Thunder Wave and its relative impunity to Water attacks also helps, as well as an ability to check threats such as Mismagius to greater effect later in the game.
Against top five UU leads:
AMBIPOM: Unless Ambipom carries Brick Break, it can do absolutely nothing to Registeel besides Taunt. Registeel can make a deep impact with Iron Head, and if Ambipom tries to be clever and U-turn off the bat to see what you bring in, Regi gets the rocks up (hopefully). This is rarely the case however, and Registeel is usually forced out, but can come back in any time to do any of its numerous jobs later. Registeel generally doesn't come off any worse in this fight, and can scout as much as Ambipom does.
UXIE: Registeel will almost always get the rocks up here, however it has very little to hurt Uxie with (short of Thunder Wave) but, then again, Uxie never carries any moves to even scratch Regi with itself.
ARCANINE: Registeel gets the Rocks up regardless of how Arcanine attacks it, but is often killed on the next turn, though Arcanine hurts itself badly if it uses Flare Blitz.
ELECTRODE: 2HKO with Earthquake. If it doesn't Taunt, a swift set of rocks follows suit.
ROSERADE: Easily beats it one on one. None of rosie's attacks scratch it, Chesto allows for you to paralyse and 2HKO with Iron Head if you feel like it.
Well, I think that covers everything. What do you think?
Bulky Lead Registeel
Registeel @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Careful
STEALTH ROCK
IRON HEAD
THUNDER WAVE
EARTHQUAKE/EXPLOSION/REST
EVs: 252 HP, 136 Atk, 24 SDef, 92 Def
With the great number of scouting leads in OU currently, such as Roserade and Ambipom, there are inevitably a group of Bulky leads that will attempt to counter whatever they may try to do. Although Uxie is arguably better for the job with its greater movepool and higher speed, Registeel's sturdier defences and arguably better typing gives it a niche to exploit as one of the better choices for bulkier leads.
This particular variant plays similarly to how Bronzong would in OU or to a lesser extent how Groudon would in Ubers. The basic jist of the set is to set up rocks, cripple something with a status move and then leave to fulfil walling duties later on in the game, or to simply attempt to do as much damage as possible before being forced out. Although Registeel does not have the offensive power of Groudon or the sheer unpredictability of Bronzong, it makes up for this with sheer defensive prowess and the ability to serve a purpose even in lategame. Popular leads such as Roserade and Ambipom can do very little to this, and the only common leads that can really force it out are things like Arcanine, and sometimes Uxie, who can do very little to it anyway barring TrickScarf.
A Sleep Powder Roserade lead has a 75% chance to hit Registeel once, and has just over a 50% chance to hit twice. If Registeel Paralyses it and then attacks with Iron Head, it has a 42% chance to hit on the second turn, giving Roserade an overall 31% chance to do anything, which is less likely than Aerodactyl getting Stealth Rock up against Scarf Jirachi (although admittedly Roserade has Natural Cure to allow it to come back again later on). Resistance/Immunity to both of Roserade's STABs doesn't hurt, either.
Stealth Rock is a given, as is Iron Head as its best STAB option. Thunder Wave serves to deal a crippling blow to the unwary. The last slot, however, is much more open, and is contested by a wide variety of 'filler' options. Earthquake is nice for hitting Fire-types on the switch and getting a useful 2HKO on Electrode leads. With the given EV spread you can also sometimes 2HKO overconfident, min/min Jolly Arcanine leads. Explosion deals a hefty blow for a parting shot, and also allows a free switch-in for your next Pokémon, however it is often inadvisable to cast aside something like Registeel, who can be invaluable later in the game, and whose offences are nothing spectacular in the first place. Finally, Rest is an added lifeline for an extra chance, working nicely in tandem with Chesto Berry, however leaving something like Registeel immobile is asking for trouble, and this particular Registeel is not particularly designed for sticking around for long, simply getting your team off with the upper hand. If you want a lasting Registeel, Resttalk is much more preferable. An extra support move is also feasible, but this pretty much stretches only to Rain Dance, which is set up much more easily by other Pokémon such as Electrode. Toxic can be used over Thunder Wave to hit Bulky Waters, but this is not particularly advisable. Chesto Berry is used over Lum Berry because Registeel is immune to poison and indifferent to paralysis. Freeze is extremely rare, and most Pokémon with burning moves are generally also in possession of damaging Fire moves, which are far more damaging to Registeel. It also avoids allowing Trick users to take your Thunder Waves and cure themselves. Chesto also works better than Lum when used in tandem with Rest, since the strategy is not ruined by unexpected status moves.
With the given EV spread, 252 EVs are placed in HP for durability, 136 EVs in attack ensures a 2HKO on standard min/min Timid Roserade as well as a 2HKO on Jolly min/min Arcanine with Earthquake. 24 SDef EVs and a Careful nature ensures that you survive a Modest Scarf Moltres Overheat 93.75% of the time (factoring in critical hits). This leaves you with 92 EVs to spare; I put them in Defence to take random Close Combats with greater ease; however, placing them in other areas is an option. Placing them all in Attack gives you the ability to occasionally 2HKO the standard Jolly Ambipom with Iron Head and OHKO Hasty min/min Damp Rock Electrode with Earthquake, and still allows you to survive Jolly Max Attack Arcanine's Flare Blitz, but this could be seen as forfeiting Registeel's incredible defences in favour of its mediocre offences.
Another thing Registeel and Bronzong share is the unfortunate susceptibility to Taunt - however, with Froslass and Crobat gone from nUU, the only common Taunt leads are Ambipom and Electrode, both of whom Registeel is more than capable of dealing with, given the appropriate moveset.
Prior to the first suspect removal, inevitable comparisons were made between this Registeel and its cousin, Regirock, doing the same thing. On the one hand Regirock had a more powerful STAB move that hit Froslass, Crobat AND Abomasnow for super-effective damage coming off a higher attack stat, but on the other hand Registeel had better special defence on top of indifference to all the aforementioned Pokémon’s' STAB moves as well as a reliable STAB move that hit two of the three for super-effective damage anyway. However, currently Registeel is almost always the better choice for the ability to be of more use later in the battle. Outside of this, the two are almost equal, Registeel taking on Roserade more easily and Regirock taking on Arcanine more easily.
The main reason to use this over Steelix is, generally, an increased capacity to take special hits (Steelix has to run an ungodly amount of Special Defence and HP EVs to even have a shot at not being 2HKOed by Timid Roserade's Grass Knot) which is a very valuable asset in this metagame. Steelix's increased defence is of little significance since Ambipom is doing very little to it or Registeel anyway, and its STAB Earthquake doesn't help as much as one would think against most leads (Electrode being an exception). The ability to use Thunder Wave and its relative impunity to Water attacks also helps, as well as an ability to check threats such as Mismagius to greater effect later in the game.
Against top five UU leads:
AMBIPOM: Unless Ambipom carries Brick Break, it can do absolutely nothing to Registeel besides Taunt. Registeel can make a deep impact with Iron Head, and if Ambipom tries to be clever and U-turn off the bat to see what you bring in, Regi gets the rocks up (hopefully). This is rarely the case however, and Registeel is usually forced out, but can come back in any time to do any of its numerous jobs later. Registeel generally doesn't come off any worse in this fight, and can scout as much as Ambipom does.
UXIE: Registeel will almost always get the rocks up here, however it has very little to hurt Uxie with (short of Thunder Wave) but, then again, Uxie never carries any moves to even scratch Regi with itself.
ARCANINE: Registeel gets the Rocks up regardless of how Arcanine attacks it, but is often killed on the next turn, though Arcanine hurts itself badly if it uses Flare Blitz.
ELECTRODE: 2HKO with Earthquake. If it doesn't Taunt, a swift set of rocks follows suit.
ROSERADE: Easily beats it one on one. None of rosie's attacks scratch it, Chesto allows for you to paralyse and 2HKO with Iron Head if you feel like it.
Well, I think that covers everything. What do you think?
I was just about to post the same Uxie set, but I used max speed and Thunderwave. And I used it OU. I have to say it is amazing.
Against the top leads:
- Metagross: Usually we both set up Rocks and I switch to something that doesn't mind taking its attacks. Not the most impressive.
- Azelf: It Taunts or sets up as I Trick (usually Taunt), it is forced to switch out. If I'm Taunted, I U-turn, if not I set up. I get pretty Focus Sash.
- Jirachi: Either it gets a Choice Scarf and gets up Rocks, or more likely I'll set up Stealth Rock while it Tricks. Then we are both forced out.
- Infernape: I Trick while it gets up Rocks, and is forced out allowing me to set up.
- Aerodactyl: Pretty much the same as Azelf only I don't have to worry about it Exploding
After I've had my fun against leads, I get to Trick my Focus Sash onto something like SpecsJolt and really ruin whatever they had planned.
Against the top leads:
- Metagross: Usually we both set up Rocks and I switch to something that doesn't mind taking its attacks. Not the most impressive.
- Azelf: It Taunts or sets up as I Trick (usually Taunt), it is forced to switch out. If I'm Taunted, I U-turn, if not I set up. I get pretty Focus Sash.
- Jirachi: Either it gets a Choice Scarf and gets up Rocks, or more likely I'll set up Stealth Rock while it Tricks. Then we are both forced out.
- Infernape: I Trick while it gets up Rocks, and is forced out allowing me to set up.
- Aerodactyl: Pretty much the same as Azelf only I don't have to worry about it Exploding
After I've had my fun against leads, I get to Trick my Focus Sash onto something like SpecsJolt and really ruin whatever they had planned.
Most of times when you think about using Blaziken in OU, you just know that it's outclassed by Infernape, especially in terms of speed, which is huge bonus for Infernape to use it in most OU teams which needs good, solid wall-breaker. However, Blaziken has higher special attack and attack and only speed makes it much worse option to choose for competetive OU teams. However, there's a set which don't need that much speed to be effective. And can be also quite effective in UU. Simple - it's Subpunching set.
Blaziken @ Leftovers / Expert Belt
30 Atk/226 SpA/252 Spe
Mild Nature
'SubPuncher'
~ Substitute
~ Focus Punch
~ Fire Blast
~ HP Ice / Toxic
Blaziken with his good typing and deadly STAB attacks has an easy time in forcing switches (Scizor, TTar, Blissey in OU or Chansey, Registeel, Shaymin won't stay in most of times being scared of some deadly attacks). When they run away, you just put up Substitute and you act from there. 30 Attack EVs give you 100% of time OHKo on Max HP/Max Def Blissey (which is right now extremely rare, but if you're obsessed of having 100% chance to kill it in one shot), then 30 EVs are enough. And you don't need to run Expert Belt to ensure that OHKO. Those EVs are also enough to OHKO both Snorlax and especially Heatran, which may try to absorb fire attack coming from Blaziken. And with Expert Belt you may fool opponent with running Scarf Blaziken, so it may also act as a bait to some pokemon.
HP Ice is probably the best option for OU, as it kills in one shot Flygon and Salamence, which may try to absorb Blaziken attacks. For UU, I recommend using HP Grass, as it deals with Blaziken best counters like Slowbro or Quagsire. But still, even with one of those Hidden Powers, there's always something which may come and make your live miserable like Latias or Gyarados, so Toxic is also an option and with Toxic it works in similar way to BaitTran, but with much less bulk. Both Leftovers and Expert Belt are good options. Leftovers is superior option, especially in OU, where Sandstorm may take Blaziken HP a bit too fast. But if you need a bit more power, you may use Expert Belt. Both option are fine.
Blaziken @ Leftovers / Expert Belt
30 Atk/226 SpA/252 Spe
Mild Nature
'SubPuncher'
~ Substitute
~ Focus Punch
~ Fire Blast
~ HP Ice / Toxic
Blaziken with his good typing and deadly STAB attacks has an easy time in forcing switches (Scizor, TTar, Blissey in OU or Chansey, Registeel, Shaymin won't stay in most of times being scared of some deadly attacks). When they run away, you just put up Substitute and you act from there. 30 Attack EVs give you 100% of time OHKo on Max HP/Max Def Blissey (which is right now extremely rare, but if you're obsessed of having 100% chance to kill it in one shot), then 30 EVs are enough. And you don't need to run Expert Belt to ensure that OHKO. Those EVs are also enough to OHKO both Snorlax and especially Heatran, which may try to absorb fire attack coming from Blaziken. And with Expert Belt you may fool opponent with running Scarf Blaziken, so it may also act as a bait to some pokemon.
HP Ice is probably the best option for OU, as it kills in one shot Flygon and Salamence, which may try to absorb Blaziken attacks. For UU, I recommend using HP Grass, as it deals with Blaziken best counters like Slowbro or Quagsire. But still, even with one of those Hidden Powers, there's always something which may come and make your live miserable like Latias or Gyarados, so Toxic is also an option and with Toxic it works in similar way to BaitTran, but with much less bulk. Both Leftovers and Expert Belt are good options. Leftovers is superior option, especially in OU, where Sandstorm may take Blaziken HP a bit too fast. But if you need a bit more power, you may use Expert Belt. Both option are fine.
For using Uxie in OU, I would use Impish 252 HP/ 106 Def/ 152 Speed. This set keeps Uxie physically bulky while outrunning max speed Jolly Aerodactyl.
Lead Lucario
Lead
Lucario @ Focus Sash
Lonely (+Atk, -Def)
Inner Focus
6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Close Combat
- Extreemespeed
- Crunch
- Counter
I've been using this lead almost exclusively for a few weeks, and it has proven quite worthy of a slot on my team. The main focus is to always get at least one KO plus scout the opponent's team for counters to Fighting-types (I've used this mainly on a team focused around ScarfCross).
The Hasty nature is chosen to maximize damage from Counter and to allow you to go mixed off of 266 Special Attack should you have the desire. No matter what nature you chose, +Speed is always recommended to get the jump on +Speed Heatran and to tie with other base 90 Pokemon like Roserade. No amount of EVs allow you to OHKO Swampert with Hidden Power Grass, so theres no point in trying. However, with the aforementioned 266 Special Attack coming off a neutral nature, you will always 2HKO. Inner Focus is a great ability when a Pokemon like Lead Infernape is popular, as it allows you to always come out on top with a combination of Close Combat and Extreemespeed, ending with Lucario either at 1 HP and them defeated, or with Lucario at full health and them defeated with Stealth Rock up.
[note: LR pointed out that I had made a mistake in assuming Lucario needed a +Speed nature to outrun Heatran, so Lonely is the preffered nature in 'most all cases]
Close Combat + Extreemespeed will, more often than not, beat Suicide leads like Aerodactyl and Infernape. Counter allows you to beat physical revenge-killers coming in after you beat the opponent's lead should your Sash still be intact, plus have a way to beat bulky leads like Bronzong, Swampert, and Metagross should they get greedy and try to Earthquake you. The third slot is a bit trickier, as it is mostly dependent on the battle. Hiddem Power Grass allows you to always 2HKO Swampert should you go with a neautral nature, however will do disappointing damage to anything not 4x weak. Dark Pulse gives you a move to hit Azelf and also rounds off type-coverage. Another interesting use for it is to weaken any Ghosts (especially the Rotom-formes) switching in to counter Lucario expecting a full Physical set, thus preparing your team for a later sweep with Agiligross or ScarfHera. Toxic a kind of conservative choice that allows Lucario to damage walls like Dusknoir or Hippowdon that it wouldn't have otherwise been able to touch, while also weakening them for a late-game sweep. Another interesting choice is Protect, which is especially helpful for not giving away Counter and for scouting any Pokemon that come in after you win the initial matchup. However, it should be noted that the best choice in the third slot will almost always be Dark Pulse.
[note: the average damage of Crunch may be beneficial over Dark Pulse should your team not be based around beating bulky defenders like mine was]
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disclaimer: most of these situations will be reliant on prediction or the choice of a certain move in the last slot. the example situations given are obviously not the only ones that could happen, but are the ones that most commonly occur in my opinion. obviously these are not real logs.
1 | Metagross
Against Metagross, it's largely dependent on whether it's a Scarf or Bulky lead. It is generally most safe, if you lack Protect, to Counter right away, as most seem to Earthquake you to block any attempts of a sweep. Should you ever blow your cover off the bat, it might be helpful to know that Close Combat will always at least get the 3HKO.
situation 1:
Metagross used Earthquake
Lucario lost 100% if its health
Lucario hung on with Focus Sash
Lucario used Counter
Metagross fainted
situation 2:
Metagross used Stealth Rock
Lucario used Counter
The move failed
This situation could go a few ways. The Metagross could either have Earthquake but have not used it because you don't particularly threaten it, not have Earthquake and be forced to Explode or switch out to do damage, or have a Choice Scarf and be forced to switch out. In any case, they will be on edge after seeing Counter and will usually refrain from attacking directly with Earthquake, so usually the best choice here is to Close Combat.
requires: prediction, Counter
beaten: this one requires more prediction than the other leads do, but most of the time Counter will spell its doom.
2 | Azelf
Against Azelf, you are mostly even should you not pick Dark Pulse in the third slot. Extreemespeed and Close Combat both miss the 2HKO, but will always 3HKO, meaning you will always come out with at least 1HP and them with Stealth Rocks up. Should you posses Dark Pulse, however, you can hit it once with the move and then finish it with an Extreemespeed.
situation 1:
Azelf used Stealth Rock
Lucario used Dark Pulse
Azelf lost 86.60% of its health
Lucario used Extreemespeed
Azelf lost [however much is remaining] health
Azelf fainted
situation 2:
Azelf used Flamethrower
Lucario lost 100% of its health
Lucario hung on with Focus Sash
Lucario used Dark Pulse
Azelf lost 86.60% of its health
Lucario used Extreemespeed
Azelf lost [however much is remaining] health
Azelf fainted
As you can see, your opponent will always either be forced to forego Stealth Rock to get Lucario at 1% health, or get Stealth Rock up but have to deal with a Lucario at 100% health with a Focus Sash intact. Against Dual Screen Azelf leads, they'll nearly always go for a Reflect>Light Screen first considering Lucario's popular usage as a Physical Pokemon. This gives you the chance to Dark Pulse, then finish it off with Extreemespeed, letting them get only 1 Screen up.
requires: Dark Pulse, Extreemespeed
beaten: it either gets Stealth Rock up and has to deal with a full health Lucario, or it doesn't get rocks up and you're left at 1HP. All in all, you will almost always come out with a KO.
3 | Infernape
Against Infernape, you're better off than against almost any other lead, or similarly to Azelf. Any that make the mistake of using Fake Out lose immediately. However, most battlers will just go for the Stealth Rock, which allows you to Close Combat and then finish it with Extreemespeed. Should they attempt to attack you like shown in the second Azelf situation, they will not get Stealth Rock off and will always die. Since the examples are so similar to Azelf's, I won't write any demonstration logs on how the turns will go. However, if you are against the somewhat popular Endeavor Lead (I never faced one with this), whether you beat it or not is very dependent on what it does. If it uses Overheat or some other Fire-type attack first turn, it will likely come away with the victory after finishing you with Vacuum Wave. This does mean, however, that by sending out a faster Pokemon or one with priority not weak to Fighting, you have prevented the opponent from setting up Stealth Rock. If they set up Stealth Rock, the situation will likely turn out like Azelf's first situation.
requires: Close Combat, Extreemespeed
beaten: it either gets Stealth Rock up and has to deal with a full health Lucario, or it doesn't get rocks up and you're left at 1HP. All in all, you will almost always come out with a KO.
4 | Jirachi
Jirachi will do 31.32% on average with a Choice Scarfed Jolly Iron Head, so it's fair to say that it can't do any damage to you (U-turn is also not threatening). Most will be reluctant to Trick a Scarf onto you, so the majority will either U-turn out in fear, or Stealth Rock and then switch out. The best move here is usually to just Close Combat to either hit the switch in hard or to hit Jirachi for about 50%. It should be noted that an 80 HP EV Jirachi will be 2HKOed by Close Combat 92.50% of the time.
situation 1:
Jirachi used Stealth Rock
Lucario used Close Combat
Jirachi lost 50% of its health
Jirachi switched to [Pokemon]
Lucario used Close Combat
[Pokemon] lost [something]% of its health
situation 2:
Jirachi used U-turn
Lucario lost [minimal amount]% of its health
[Opponent] switched to [Pokemon]
Lucario used Close Combat
[Pokemon] lost [something]% of its health
With Jirachi, it's largely dependent on what comes in next to judge if you beat it or not, but as it is, Jirachi can't touch you. If it Tricks a Scarf onto you, you beat it without it getting to do anything at all (unless it switches) and are left with a full health Scarf Lucario.
requires: Close Combat
beaten: i'm apprehensive to say you beat this thing, as it pretty much depends on what it switches to. however, just the fact that it has to switch to do any damage to you is a victory in my book.
5 | Aerodactyl
Aerodactyl is probably the easiest Suicide lead to defeat, as it will always be taken out with a combination of Close Combat and Extreemespeed. Very rarely will it attempt to Earthquake, and if it does, you have prevented it from getting Stealth Rock up. Again, the situations are very similar to Azelf, so I'll leave it to you to figure out how this one will usually play out.
requires: Close Combat, Extreemespeed
beaten: it either gets Stealth Rock up and has to deal with a full health Lucario, or it doesn't get rocks up and you're left at 1HP. All in all, you will almost always come out with a KO.
6 | Swampert
Very rarely will a an Opponent forego a free KO, and this is generally the case versus Swampert. More often than not, Swampert will attempt to KO you with a STAB Earthquake only to be Countered back for a KO. This works similarily to any other bulk lead, but with less prediction required. Should you choose to go with Hidden Power Grass on the set, you need even less prediction to beat this guy. With a neutral nature and no EVs, Lucario will always 2HKO Swampert with HP Grass.
requires: Counter
beaten: reflect its Earthquake back for the first KO of the game
7 | Bronzong
This guy works similarly to Metagross and Swampert, only with a few different possibilities. Whatever happens, you will always be looking to Counter its Earthquake back for a KO. Versus this Pokemon is where Swords Dance becomes an interesting choice; if you get a Swords Dance off while it uses Stealth Rock, you can Close Combat then Extreemespeed and have the ability to Extreemespeed anything faster that comes in.
requires: Prediction, Counter
beaten: versus Bronzong is a real prediction war; predict when it is going to attack and use Counter. if it lacks Earthquake, it really can't touch you besides using Explosion. this is obviously a fairly shaky matchup that will really be decided each battle.
8 | Tyranitar
There is almost no need at all to even have a description for Tyranitar, considering you will always come out on top if it doesn't switch (it does). Close Combat will always OHKO, while your Sash will protect you from any weird Scarf variants. It should also be noted that Lucario takes no damage from Sandstorm, therefore its Sash will always be intact.
requires: Close Combat
beaten: always
9 | Hippowdon
Very much the same as Swampert, this Pokemon will rarely not Earthquake you. A STAB Super Effective Earthquake is just too tempting coming off that great Attack stat, and if you don't attack now, it might set up on you! Attack! Attack I say! Again, Lucario is immune to Sandstorm, so it doesn't have to worry about its Sash being broken.
requires: Counter
beaten: nearly always, unless you blow your cover
10 | Heatran
I lied when I said Aerodactyl was probably the easiest beaten lead by this thing; this is. Just outspeed with your sexy +Speed nature and Close Combat to OHKO. Should it be a Scarf version, you hang on with your Focus Sash and KO it anyway.
situation 1:
Lucario used Close Combat
Heatran fainted
requires: Close Combat
beaten: always
----------
With the moves at hand, Lucario can be flexible to beat nearly all leads I have faced. Some other examples include Ambipom, Salamence, Weavile (with prediction), Machamp, Smeargle, and Mamoswine. I stopped giving examples of how situation should go at a certain point since most leads can be split up into two main groups: Bulky, and Suicide. It beat both most handily, only having problems with the occasional misprediction on my part.
What makes this better than any old Counter lead?
Good question. The main answer I have to this question is versatility. For one, it is immune to Sandstorm, making it able to Counter versus Tyranitar and Hippowdon. Inner Focus also allows it to not be completely screwed over by Ambipom and Infernape like most Counter leads. Looking back on the versatility aspect, this lead can also dispose of Suicide leads as well as bulky attackers or Choice Banders; unlike some other Counter leads, it isn't completely dependent on the opponent attacking, it can beat fast leads looking to set up Stealth Rock. Extreemespeed is another very valuable aspect of this lead; it can break sashes plus allow itself to bypass its average Speed.
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I hope this hasn't been brought up before, and thanks for taking the time to view this. I'd ask that if anyone so desires to make a write up of this in C&C (just sayin) that they contact me first.
Lead
Lucario @ Focus Sash
Lonely (+Atk, -Def)
Inner Focus
6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Close Combat
- Extreemespeed
- Crunch
- Counter
I've been using this lead almost exclusively for a few weeks, and it has proven quite worthy of a slot on my team. The main focus is to always get at least one KO plus scout the opponent's team for counters to Fighting-types (I've used this mainly on a team focused around ScarfCross).
The Hasty nature is chosen to maximize damage from Counter and to allow you to go mixed off of 266 Special Attack should you have the desire. No matter what nature you chose, +Speed is always recommended to get the jump on +Speed Heatran and to tie with other base 90 Pokemon like Roserade. No amount of EVs allow you to OHKO Swampert with Hidden Power Grass, so theres no point in trying. However, with the aforementioned 266 Special Attack coming off a neutral nature, you will always 2HKO. Inner Focus is a great ability when a Pokemon like Lead Infernape is popular, as it allows you to always come out on top with a combination of Close Combat and Extreemespeed, ending with Lucario either at 1 HP and them defeated, or with Lucario at full health and them defeated with Stealth Rock up.
[note: LR pointed out that I had made a mistake in assuming Lucario needed a +Speed nature to outrun Heatran, so Lonely is the preffered nature in 'most all cases]
Close Combat + Extreemespeed will, more often than not, beat Suicide leads like Aerodactyl and Infernape. Counter allows you to beat physical revenge-killers coming in after you beat the opponent's lead should your Sash still be intact, plus have a way to beat bulky leads like Bronzong, Swampert, and Metagross should they get greedy and try to Earthquake you. The third slot is a bit trickier, as it is mostly dependent on the battle. Hiddem Power Grass allows you to always 2HKO Swampert should you go with a neautral nature, however will do disappointing damage to anything not 4x weak. Dark Pulse gives you a move to hit Azelf and also rounds off type-coverage. Another interesting use for it is to weaken any Ghosts (especially the Rotom-formes) switching in to counter Lucario expecting a full Physical set, thus preparing your team for a later sweep with Agiligross or ScarfHera. Toxic a kind of conservative choice that allows Lucario to damage walls like Dusknoir or Hippowdon that it wouldn't have otherwise been able to touch, while also weakening them for a late-game sweep. Another interesting choice is Protect, which is especially helpful for not giving away Counter and for scouting any Pokemon that come in after you win the initial matchup. However, it should be noted that the best choice in the third slot will almost always be Dark Pulse.
[note: the average damage of Crunch may be beneficial over Dark Pulse should your team not be based around beating bulky defenders like mine was]
----------
disclaimer: most of these situations will be reliant on prediction or the choice of a certain move in the last slot. the example situations given are obviously not the only ones that could happen, but are the ones that most commonly occur in my opinion. obviously these are not real logs.
1 | Metagross
Against Metagross, it's largely dependent on whether it's a Scarf or Bulky lead. It is generally most safe, if you lack Protect, to Counter right away, as most seem to Earthquake you to block any attempts of a sweep. Should you ever blow your cover off the bat, it might be helpful to know that Close Combat will always at least get the 3HKO.
situation 1:
Metagross used Earthquake
Lucario lost 100% if its health
Lucario hung on with Focus Sash
Lucario used Counter
Metagross fainted
situation 2:
Metagross used Stealth Rock
Lucario used Counter
The move failed
This situation could go a few ways. The Metagross could either have Earthquake but have not used it because you don't particularly threaten it, not have Earthquake and be forced to Explode or switch out to do damage, or have a Choice Scarf and be forced to switch out. In any case, they will be on edge after seeing Counter and will usually refrain from attacking directly with Earthquake, so usually the best choice here is to Close Combat.
requires: prediction, Counter
beaten: this one requires more prediction than the other leads do, but most of the time Counter will spell its doom.
2 | Azelf
Against Azelf, you are mostly even should you not pick Dark Pulse in the third slot. Extreemespeed and Close Combat both miss the 2HKO, but will always 3HKO, meaning you will always come out with at least 1HP and them with Stealth Rocks up. Should you posses Dark Pulse, however, you can hit it once with the move and then finish it with an Extreemespeed.
situation 1:
Azelf used Stealth Rock
Lucario used Dark Pulse
Azelf lost 86.60% of its health
Lucario used Extreemespeed
Azelf lost [however much is remaining] health
Azelf fainted
situation 2:
Azelf used Flamethrower
Lucario lost 100% of its health
Lucario hung on with Focus Sash
Lucario used Dark Pulse
Azelf lost 86.60% of its health
Lucario used Extreemespeed
Azelf lost [however much is remaining] health
Azelf fainted
As you can see, your opponent will always either be forced to forego Stealth Rock to get Lucario at 1% health, or get Stealth Rock up but have to deal with a Lucario at 100% health with a Focus Sash intact. Against Dual Screen Azelf leads, they'll nearly always go for a Reflect>Light Screen first considering Lucario's popular usage as a Physical Pokemon. This gives you the chance to Dark Pulse, then finish it off with Extreemespeed, letting them get only 1 Screen up.
requires: Dark Pulse, Extreemespeed
beaten: it either gets Stealth Rock up and has to deal with a full health Lucario, or it doesn't get rocks up and you're left at 1HP. All in all, you will almost always come out with a KO.
3 | Infernape
Against Infernape, you're better off than against almost any other lead, or similarly to Azelf. Any that make the mistake of using Fake Out lose immediately. However, most battlers will just go for the Stealth Rock, which allows you to Close Combat and then finish it with Extreemespeed. Should they attempt to attack you like shown in the second Azelf situation, they will not get Stealth Rock off and will always die. Since the examples are so similar to Azelf's, I won't write any demonstration logs on how the turns will go. However, if you are against the somewhat popular Endeavor Lead (I never faced one with this), whether you beat it or not is very dependent on what it does. If it uses Overheat or some other Fire-type attack first turn, it will likely come away with the victory after finishing you with Vacuum Wave. This does mean, however, that by sending out a faster Pokemon or one with priority not weak to Fighting, you have prevented the opponent from setting up Stealth Rock. If they set up Stealth Rock, the situation will likely turn out like Azelf's first situation.
requires: Close Combat, Extreemespeed
beaten: it either gets Stealth Rock up and has to deal with a full health Lucario, or it doesn't get rocks up and you're left at 1HP. All in all, you will almost always come out with a KO.
4 | Jirachi
Jirachi will do 31.32% on average with a Choice Scarfed Jolly Iron Head, so it's fair to say that it can't do any damage to you (U-turn is also not threatening). Most will be reluctant to Trick a Scarf onto you, so the majority will either U-turn out in fear, or Stealth Rock and then switch out. The best move here is usually to just Close Combat to either hit the switch in hard or to hit Jirachi for about 50%. It should be noted that an 80 HP EV Jirachi will be 2HKOed by Close Combat 92.50% of the time.
situation 1:
Jirachi used Stealth Rock
Lucario used Close Combat
Jirachi lost 50% of its health
Jirachi switched to [Pokemon]
Lucario used Close Combat
[Pokemon] lost [something]% of its health
situation 2:
Jirachi used U-turn
Lucario lost [minimal amount]% of its health
[Opponent] switched to [Pokemon]
Lucario used Close Combat
[Pokemon] lost [something]% of its health
With Jirachi, it's largely dependent on what comes in next to judge if you beat it or not, but as it is, Jirachi can't touch you. If it Tricks a Scarf onto you, you beat it without it getting to do anything at all (unless it switches) and are left with a full health Scarf Lucario.
requires: Close Combat
beaten: i'm apprehensive to say you beat this thing, as it pretty much depends on what it switches to. however, just the fact that it has to switch to do any damage to you is a victory in my book.
5 | Aerodactyl
Aerodactyl is probably the easiest Suicide lead to defeat, as it will always be taken out with a combination of Close Combat and Extreemespeed. Very rarely will it attempt to Earthquake, and if it does, you have prevented it from getting Stealth Rock up. Again, the situations are very similar to Azelf, so I'll leave it to you to figure out how this one will usually play out.
requires: Close Combat, Extreemespeed
beaten: it either gets Stealth Rock up and has to deal with a full health Lucario, or it doesn't get rocks up and you're left at 1HP. All in all, you will almost always come out with a KO.
6 | Swampert
Very rarely will a an Opponent forego a free KO, and this is generally the case versus Swampert. More often than not, Swampert will attempt to KO you with a STAB Earthquake only to be Countered back for a KO. This works similarily to any other bulk lead, but with less prediction required. Should you choose to go with Hidden Power Grass on the set, you need even less prediction to beat this guy. With a neutral nature and no EVs, Lucario will always 2HKO Swampert with HP Grass.
requires: Counter
beaten: reflect its Earthquake back for the first KO of the game
7 | Bronzong
This guy works similarly to Metagross and Swampert, only with a few different possibilities. Whatever happens, you will always be looking to Counter its Earthquake back for a KO. Versus this Pokemon is where Swords Dance becomes an interesting choice; if you get a Swords Dance off while it uses Stealth Rock, you can Close Combat then Extreemespeed and have the ability to Extreemespeed anything faster that comes in.
requires: Prediction, Counter
beaten: versus Bronzong is a real prediction war; predict when it is going to attack and use Counter. if it lacks Earthquake, it really can't touch you besides using Explosion. this is obviously a fairly shaky matchup that will really be decided each battle.
8 | Tyranitar
There is almost no need at all to even have a description for Tyranitar, considering you will always come out on top if it doesn't switch (it does). Close Combat will always OHKO, while your Sash will protect you from any weird Scarf variants. It should also be noted that Lucario takes no damage from Sandstorm, therefore its Sash will always be intact.
requires: Close Combat
beaten: always
9 | Hippowdon
Very much the same as Swampert, this Pokemon will rarely not Earthquake you. A STAB Super Effective Earthquake is just too tempting coming off that great Attack stat, and if you don't attack now, it might set up on you! Attack! Attack I say! Again, Lucario is immune to Sandstorm, so it doesn't have to worry about its Sash being broken.
requires: Counter
beaten: nearly always, unless you blow your cover
10 | Heatran
I lied when I said Aerodactyl was probably the easiest beaten lead by this thing; this is. Just outspeed with your sexy +Speed nature and Close Combat to OHKO. Should it be a Scarf version, you hang on with your Focus Sash and KO it anyway.
situation 1:
Lucario used Close Combat
Heatran fainted
requires: Close Combat
beaten: always
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With the moves at hand, Lucario can be flexible to beat nearly all leads I have faced. Some other examples include Ambipom, Salamence, Weavile (with prediction), Machamp, Smeargle, and Mamoswine. I stopped giving examples of how situation should go at a certain point since most leads can be split up into two main groups: Bulky, and Suicide. It beat both most handily, only having problems with the occasional misprediction on my part.
What makes this better than any old Counter lead?
Good question. The main answer I have to this question is versatility. For one, it is immune to Sandstorm, making it able to Counter versus Tyranitar and Hippowdon. Inner Focus also allows it to not be completely screwed over by Ambipom and Infernape like most Counter leads. Looking back on the versatility aspect, this lead can also dispose of Suicide leads as well as bulky attackers or Choice Banders; unlike some other Counter leads, it isn't completely dependent on the opponent attacking, it can beat fast leads looking to set up Stealth Rock. Extreemespeed is another very valuable aspect of this lead; it can break sashes plus allow itself to bypass its average Speed.
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I hope this hasn't been brought up before, and thanks for taking the time to view this. I'd ask that if anyone so desires to make a write up of this in C&C (just sayin) that they contact me first.
That looks like quite a cool set, diinbong. I've seen a handful of gimmicky lead Lucario before (seriously, "use Copycat to copy Azelf's Stealth Rock!!") but this one looks like it could work.
Also, is there any real reason to use Dark Pulse over Crunch? The Pokemon you'd be using it against will die to both, and Crunch has the benefit of investment behind it, and so will hit random things generally harder.
All in all it's a really cool set. The fact it can take on both suicide leads as well as bulkier ones such as Hippowdon is a great asset. I'm inclined to try this out now =), and see how it performs in actuality.
If this is the only reason you're running +speed, then you really don't have to. A max speed +speed Heatran won't outspeed a max speed neutral Lucario - Heatran hits 278 Speed with a Naive nature, Lucario hits 279 Speed with an Adamant nature. Against Roserade, you will always be using Extremespeed anyway, since it resists Close Combat, and so a +attack nature will actually help you out there more. Roserade is guaranteed to be 2HKOed by a +attack Extremespeed, whereas with a neutral nature you aren't guaranteed that. Against Porygon-Z, you will be doing Close Combat + Extremespeed anyway. So I'd say use a Lonely nature (+Atk, -Def) instead of your current Hasty one.
Also, is there any real reason to use Dark Pulse over Crunch? The Pokemon you'd be using it against will die to both, and Crunch has the benefit of investment behind it, and so will hit random things generally harder.
All in all it's a really cool set. The fact it can take on both suicide leads as well as bulkier ones such as Hippowdon is a great asset. I'm inclined to try this out now =), and see how it performs in actuality.
Now that I look back at the OU Speed Tiers, I can see that Lonely is probably the best choice of nature. I was, for some reason, thinking that Heatran was between +Speed and neutral Lucario on the list, and your points about Roserade and PorygonZ are quite true.
The reason I was using Dark Pulse when I was using this was to get a bit of extra damage off of walls like Dusknoir, Cresselia, and the Rotom-formes since my team was based around beating ScarfHere's counters. If this set was to be used on a more standard team, however, Crunch might be the better choice. thanks for commenting; I'll probably change it around a bit.
edit: Yes, I can imagine it has come the right time to unleash its usefulness
iPodedit: I give all my Pokemon an extra Speed EV
The reason I was using Dark Pulse when I was using this was to get a bit of extra damage off of walls like Dusknoir, Cresselia, and the Rotom-formes since my team was based around beating ScarfHere's counters. If this set was to be used on a more standard team, however, Crunch might be the better choice. thanks for commenting; I'll probably change it around a bit.
edit: Yes, I can imagine it has come the right time to unleash its usefulness
iPodedit: I give all my Pokemon an extra Speed EV
That is a good Lucario. Back when I played Wifi, I remember seeing a video with a similiar Lucario. When I tried it though, it was sucked. Back then Gengar was a common lead and nobody realized Infernape learned Stealth Rock. Metagross and Swampert were rare to see as a lead so there wasn't much to counter.
Now though I think it would be a lot better. Thanks for posting it, looks great!
Something to note is that you 2HKO Metagross that don't invest in Hit Points with Close Combat.
Now though I think it would be a lot better. Thanks for posting it, looks great!
Something to note is that you 2HKO Metagross that don't invest in Hit Points with Close Combat.
However, almost all lead Metagross invest in HP; the standard in the analysis, in fact, is 252. On a side note, I give my lead Metagross 12 Speed EVs, because the analysis says it should have 8. Having one point extra Speed helps me get the jump on other Metagross and, if the opponent's Metagross stays in, KO it first.
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/torkoal
I've noticed this set was only in with the Other Options part of the analysis, but I've had more luck with this set than the rapin spin or status sets. I think a set like this might have been overlooked because of a lack of physical stab but he does alright without it. Also this is my 1st post in this area, so please be gentle.
Also tell me if I should change my example about torkoal vs marowak. I just picked the strongest physical thing I could think of in UU w stab. Would it be better to show the stats after just one curse?
[SET]
name: CurseKoal
move 1: Curse
move 2: Gyro Ball
move 3: Overheat/Earthquake/Stone Edge
move 4: Toxic/Will-O-Wisp/Explosion
item: Leftovers
nature: Sassy/Relaxed
evs: 200 HP / 4 Att / 52 Def / 252 Sdef
ivs: 0 Spd
[SET COMMENTS]
<p> Torkoal may not have a physical stab move but this set is designed to over come that challenge and be used as an early game lure or a late game tank. It may also get a couple surprise hits in due to the physical nature of this set. While the other more common sets focus on spin or status support. This is a straight forward cursing set. Once torkoal is set up its almost impossible for a physical move to take him down.</p>
<p>The strategy is simple. Either use him early game to lure in either Earthquakers or water attacks then switch to an appropriate counter. Or bring him out late game when all the special attackers are gone and set up then. Curse and Gyro Ball are the staples of this set and with his base 20 speed it is possible to hit for the max damage without even using a curse, anything with base speed 100 or more will end up taking the full brunt of the damage. Thats assuming no speed Evs and a neutral nature. After two curses he will be able to take an Earthquake from a Thick club Adamant 252 Att/ 252 Spd Marowak, taking only 51-60%, and he hitting back with gyro ball doing 66-78% guaranteeing a 2KO, while he has only a 30% chance a 2KOing you with leftovers recovery. With the Sdef investment he can still take a stabbed surf from anything with base 110 Special attack or less. Provided he is a Sassy nature.</p>
<p>The choice between Overheat, Earthquake, and Stone Edge is a matter of preference. Overheat does get stab and base 85 special attack isn't too bad. It could grab a couple surprise OHKOs on a steelix, venusaur or other physical walls with a fire weakness. Earthquake does reliable damage and has perfect accuracy while adding steels and poisons to your type coverage. Stone Edge will do more damage then earthquake and has a higher critical hit rate but suffers from lower accuracy.</p>
<p>The final slot is a homage to the other sets that Torkoal has at its disposal. Toxic will slowly wear down walls while you can continue to curse or attack. Will-O-Wisp will cripple opposing physical sweepers. Finally, explosion will leave a large dent in anything that doesn't resist it. Perfect for those bulky waters like Slowbro. Alternatively you could also use overheat as your 4th move to maximize its type coverage.</p>
<p>0 Ivs in speed are ideal for gyro ball, so that should be aimed for. While Evs are simply set up for maximum survivability against the common threats.</p>
I've noticed this set was only in with the Other Options part of the analysis, but I've had more luck with this set than the rapin spin or status sets. I think a set like this might have been overlooked because of a lack of physical stab but he does alright without it. Also this is my 1st post in this area, so please be gentle.
Also tell me if I should change my example about torkoal vs marowak. I just picked the strongest physical thing I could think of in UU w stab. Would it be better to show the stats after just one curse?
[SET]
name: CurseKoal
move 1: Curse
move 2: Gyro Ball
move 3: Overheat/Earthquake/Stone Edge
move 4: Toxic/Will-O-Wisp/Explosion
item: Leftovers
nature: Sassy/Relaxed
evs: 200 HP / 4 Att / 52 Def / 252 Sdef
ivs: 0 Spd
[SET COMMENTS]
<p> Torkoal may not have a physical stab move but this set is designed to over come that challenge and be used as an early game lure or a late game tank. It may also get a couple surprise hits in due to the physical nature of this set. While the other more common sets focus on spin or status support. This is a straight forward cursing set. Once torkoal is set up its almost impossible for a physical move to take him down.</p>
<p>The strategy is simple. Either use him early game to lure in either Earthquakers or water attacks then switch to an appropriate counter. Or bring him out late game when all the special attackers are gone and set up then. Curse and Gyro Ball are the staples of this set and with his base 20 speed it is possible to hit for the max damage without even using a curse, anything with base speed 100 or more will end up taking the full brunt of the damage. Thats assuming no speed Evs and a neutral nature. After two curses he will be able to take an Earthquake from a Thick club Adamant 252 Att/ 252 Spd Marowak, taking only 51-60%, and he hitting back with gyro ball doing 66-78% guaranteeing a 2KO, while he has only a 30% chance a 2KOing you with leftovers recovery. With the Sdef investment he can still take a stabbed surf from anything with base 110 Special attack or less. Provided he is a Sassy nature.</p>
<p>The choice between Overheat, Earthquake, and Stone Edge is a matter of preference. Overheat does get stab and base 85 special attack isn't too bad. It could grab a couple surprise OHKOs on a steelix, venusaur or other physical walls with a fire weakness. Earthquake does reliable damage and has perfect accuracy while adding steels and poisons to your type coverage. Stone Edge will do more damage then earthquake and has a higher critical hit rate but suffers from lower accuracy.</p>
<p>The final slot is a homage to the other sets that Torkoal has at its disposal. Toxic will slowly wear down walls while you can continue to curse or attack. Will-O-Wisp will cripple opposing physical sweepers. Finally, explosion will leave a large dent in anything that doesn't resist it. Perfect for those bulky waters like Slowbro. Alternatively you could also use overheat as your 4th move to maximize its type coverage.</p>
<p>0 Ivs in speed are ideal for gyro ball, so that should be aimed for. While Evs are simply set up for maximum survivability against the common threats.</p>
I've only been using this fellow for a couple of days, but he's surprisingly good at absorbing physical hits, and running over a couple Pokemon in the mean time.
Shelgon @ Choice Band
Nature: Adamant / Brave
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd ..or 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 SpAtk
~Outrage
~Double-Edge / Dragon Claw
~Brick Break / Fire Blast / Crunch
~Brick Break / Fire Blast / Crunch
Why Shelgon: Shelgon possesses the most powerful STAB Outrage in UU, making it ideal for a Choice Band set. Unlike the other unevolved Dragons, Shelgon offers decent physical defense allowing it to take powerful hits like an Adamant Guts boosted Facade from Swellow, a Choice Banded Azumarill Ice Punch, or an unboosted Altaria Outrage (this is from a max attack Altaria with positive nature), then OHKO Swellow/Azumarill with Double-Edge/Dragon Claw, Altaria with Dragon Claw, and full health Azumarill with Outrage about 50% of the time.
EVs: Outrage is incredibly powerful, running over many walls, and sweepers alike. Registeel and Steelix will provide problems though. With 100 SpAtk EVs, and a neutral nature, Fire Blast will 2HKO Steelix factoring in Leftovers.. but will only 'dent' Registeel's superior special defense.
There are consequences for taking away from Shelgon's HPs, in which it will be OHKO by monsterously powerful attacks it would usually survive. On the 252 HP / 252 Atk.. the 4 Speed EVs might come as a surprise; they are very useful for the group of non-speed/4-Spd wall Pokemon sitting at 50 base. Namely, Chansey, Lickilicky, Tangrowth, and Azumarill. If you don't care about that, or are running Trick Room, go with the extra point of defense.
In Conclusion: The set is nothing too special. Double Edge/Dragon Claw provide the exact same amount of power, and you're not likely to be using Double Edge all that often over Dragon Claw. Super Effective Crunch and Brick Break are actually less powerful than a neutral Outrage, but gives Shelgon the option of fighting back while not being locked in. Brick Break allows Shelgon to 'hurt' Steel types that within in as well.
Shelgon can diss out hits, and take a few himself. His options are more limiting than other Dragons, but 95% of the UU metagame won't appreciate eating STAB Choice Band Outrages from this guy.
Shelgon @ Choice Band
Nature: Adamant / Brave
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd ..or 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 SpAtk
~Outrage
~Double-Edge / Dragon Claw
~Brick Break / Fire Blast / Crunch
~Brick Break / Fire Blast / Crunch
Why Shelgon: Shelgon possesses the most powerful STAB Outrage in UU, making it ideal for a Choice Band set. Unlike the other unevolved Dragons, Shelgon offers decent physical defense allowing it to take powerful hits like an Adamant Guts boosted Facade from Swellow, a Choice Banded Azumarill Ice Punch, or an unboosted Altaria Outrage (this is from a max attack Altaria with positive nature), then OHKO Swellow/Azumarill with Double-Edge/Dragon Claw, Altaria with Dragon Claw, and full health Azumarill with Outrage about 50% of the time.
EVs: Outrage is incredibly powerful, running over many walls, and sweepers alike. Registeel and Steelix will provide problems though. With 100 SpAtk EVs, and a neutral nature, Fire Blast will 2HKO Steelix factoring in Leftovers.. but will only 'dent' Registeel's superior special defense.
There are consequences for taking away from Shelgon's HPs, in which it will be OHKO by monsterously powerful attacks it would usually survive. On the 252 HP / 252 Atk.. the 4 Speed EVs might come as a surprise; they are very useful for the group of non-speed/4-Spd wall Pokemon sitting at 50 base. Namely, Chansey, Lickilicky, Tangrowth, and Azumarill. If you don't care about that, or are running Trick Room, go with the extra point of defense.
In Conclusion: The set is nothing too special. Double Edge/Dragon Claw provide the exact same amount of power, and you're not likely to be using Double Edge all that often over Dragon Claw. Super Effective Crunch and Brick Break are actually less powerful than a neutral Outrage, but gives Shelgon the option of fighting back while not being locked in. Brick Break allows Shelgon to 'hurt' Steel types that within in as well.
Shelgon can diss out hits, and take a few himself. His options are more limiting than other Dragons, but 95% of the UU metagame won't appreciate eating STAB Choice Band Outrages from this guy.
Basically those 2 moves have exact same power, while dragon claw's type coverage is superior (i.e. DE hits nothing for SE, does not hit ghosts, and is resisted by rock and steels, while DC hits dragons for SE and is resisted only by steels), so there is absolutely no reason to use Double Edge.
Shelgon looks good - its Outrage is as strong as Kingdra's, and with the relative rarity of Steels in UU, I think it could be a very promising set. However, there are a couple of things that can be refined with the set you posted.
Firstly, there is absolutely no reason to run Double Edge over Dragon Claw on Shelgon. Don't be tempted to use Double Edge just because Shelgon has Rock Head - Dragon Claw has the same power (80x1.5=120) and will still hit Rock and Ghost-types, something that Double Edge would fail to do. Also, I feel Shelgon simply doesn't have the base stats to go mixed with Fire Blast when it is not running Life Orb. I'd much rather invest 88 EVs in Speed to let it outrun base 60s such as Clefable and Porygon2.
Brick Break is the only additional coverage you should need in UU, as all the Steel-types here are hit super effectively by Fighting (apart from Metang, but I've not seen a single one all test). Consider running Sleep Talk in the last slot to let it serve as a status absorber from the likes of Roserade and Smeargle. This is the CB Shelgon set I would use:
Shelgon @ Choice Band
Adamant - Rock Head
168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
~ Outrage
~ Dragon Claw
~ Brick Break
~ Sleep Talk
Toxic would have made sense in the last slot if it wasn't Steel-types being immune to poison, so Sleep Talk is a pretty cool choice.
Firstly, there is absolutely no reason to run Double Edge over Dragon Claw on Shelgon. Don't be tempted to use Double Edge just because Shelgon has Rock Head - Dragon Claw has the same power (80x1.5=120) and will still hit Rock and Ghost-types, something that Double Edge would fail to do. Also, I feel Shelgon simply doesn't have the base stats to go mixed with Fire Blast when it is not running Life Orb. I'd much rather invest 88 EVs in Speed to let it outrun base 60s such as Clefable and Porygon2.
Brick Break is the only additional coverage you should need in UU, as all the Steel-types here are hit super effectively by Fighting (apart from Metang, but I've not seen a single one all test). Consider running Sleep Talk in the last slot to let it serve as a status absorber from the likes of Roserade and Smeargle. This is the CB Shelgon set I would use:
Shelgon @ Choice Band
Adamant - Rock Head
168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
~ Outrage
~ Dragon Claw
~ Brick Break
~ Sleep Talk
Toxic would have made sense in the last slot if it wasn't Steel-types being immune to poison, so Sleep Talk is a pretty cool choice.
Been tinkering around a bit with this one. I use it in conjunction with a CB scizor and together they take care of most leads except maybe infernape.
Lead
Celebi @ Occa Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- U-turn
- Energy Ball
Does very well against many of the common leads.
1: Aerodactyl
Aerodactyl gets the rocks up, but there are few leads that can actually stop him from doing so anyways. Energy Ball will always 2HKO so if he taunts the rocks are all he'll be getting up. If he doesn't, you get begin with an energy ball and then get your own rocks up.
2: Metagross
You can pretty much always get SR up and even if it tricks you, scarf or specs aren't something that really cripple this Celebi since the rest of it moves fit a choice set just fine. After you get SR up you can either try and Earth Power it for a 2HKO or simply U-Turn out.
3: Infernape
You survive the Fake Out and then you can either Earth Power or SR, it comes down to prediction. If he taunts, it would've been better for you to Earth Power since you can 2HKO him and survive. If he decides to attack you're best off just using SR and then getting the hell out of there. In any case, you'll always survive a fake out + fire blast thanks to occa berry.
4: Swampert
Lol.
5: Hippowdon
You outspeed and can either 2HKO him or just get SR up.
6: Bronzong
You get SR up. If he uses Hypnosis, Natural Cure will take care of that.
7: Tyranitar
Just U-Turn out to something with a fighting move. U-Turn will take care of any sash he might have. Not the best matchup but at least you dent him and come out alive.
8: Heatran
Always beaten. Just begin with an Earth Power. If it's a shuca berry version, you'll have to go with a 2HKO and if it taunts he wont even get SR off. If it's a scarf version, you OHKO and survive the fire blast thanks to Occa Berry.
9: Jirachi
This can be a bit tricky, but you should usually just go for a Stealth Rock, since as said earlier, getting a scarf is something that's actually beneficial to you. You can try and damage it with Earth Power if that's your bag, too.
10: Azelf
This is another tricky one. It's often best just to U-Turn out to a counter, damaging it enough for the counter to OHKO, I personally use a Scizor. If it taunts, Scizor can OHKO with bullet punch. If it tricks, Scizor can OHKO with bullet punch. If it SR's right away, oh well, shit happens.
Lead
Celebi @ Occa Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- U-turn
- Energy Ball
Does very well against many of the common leads.
1: Aerodactyl
Aerodactyl gets the rocks up, but there are few leads that can actually stop him from doing so anyways. Energy Ball will always 2HKO so if he taunts the rocks are all he'll be getting up. If he doesn't, you get begin with an energy ball and then get your own rocks up.
2: Metagross
You can pretty much always get SR up and even if it tricks you, scarf or specs aren't something that really cripple this Celebi since the rest of it moves fit a choice set just fine. After you get SR up you can either try and Earth Power it for a 2HKO or simply U-Turn out.
3: Infernape
You survive the Fake Out and then you can either Earth Power or SR, it comes down to prediction. If he taunts, it would've been better for you to Earth Power since you can 2HKO him and survive. If he decides to attack you're best off just using SR and then getting the hell out of there. In any case, you'll always survive a fake out + fire blast thanks to occa berry.
4: Swampert
Lol.
5: Hippowdon
You outspeed and can either 2HKO him or just get SR up.
6: Bronzong
You get SR up. If he uses Hypnosis, Natural Cure will take care of that.
7: Tyranitar
Just U-Turn out to something with a fighting move. U-Turn will take care of any sash he might have. Not the best matchup but at least you dent him and come out alive.
8: Heatran
Always beaten. Just begin with an Earth Power. If it's a shuca berry version, you'll have to go with a 2HKO and if it taunts he wont even get SR off. If it's a scarf version, you OHKO and survive the fire blast thanks to Occa Berry.
9: Jirachi
This can be a bit tricky, but you should usually just go for a Stealth Rock, since as said earlier, getting a scarf is something that's actually beneficial to you. You can try and damage it with Earth Power if that's your bag, too.
10: Azelf
This is another tricky one. It's often best just to U-Turn out to a counter, damaging it enough for the counter to OHKO, I personally use a Scizor. If it taunts, Scizor can OHKO with bullet punch. If it tricks, Scizor can OHKO with bullet punch. If it SR's right away, oh well, shit happens.
my only problem is with the switch to scizor for countering Azelf. Azelf usualy carries flamethrower, and on the slim chance that they want to go offensive, that's be what they would use. though I suspect they'd outspeed Celebi in the first place, switching scizor into flamethrower would be bad
Yeah Celetran would work quite nicely in this situation especially with Scarftran.
Edit: On thinking about it the switch to scizor works fine. Celebi's U turn is slower meaning it will take the fire attack for Scizor.
However it must be noted that this gets destroyed by U-turn azelf, infernape or jircahi.
This is probably equally as problematic as Infernape your likely gonna get U-Turned or fire punched. The former doing hefty damage it can likely then proceed to kill you with iron head. Apart from that this is a really excellent lead. Perhaps run leaf storm on it instead of energy ball as right now energy ball does very little and Leaf Storm will do alot even to those who resist it. After the attack drops you can just U-Turn out i wonder what you think.Been tinkering around a bit with this one. I use it in conjunction with a CB scizor and together they take care of most leads except maybe infernape.
Lead
Celebi @ Occa Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- U-turn
- Energy Ball
Does very well against many of the common leads.
9: Jirachi
This can be a bit tricky, but you should usually just go for a Stealth Rock, since as said earlier, getting a scarf is something that's actually beneficial to you. You can try and damage it with Earth Power if that's your bag, too.
You're very right, actually. Leaf Storm is a lot better than Energy Ball (except for the accuracy drop) and the best option against Jirachi is just to switch right out. I've been using this more and more now and I'm really loving it.
Shiftry got 2 much needed solid physical STAB moves from the tutors in Seed Bomb and Sucker Punch.
I tried out a simple Jolly Life orb 252 SpA / 252 Speed/ 4 Hp set on a sunless team with dual screen support and I was quite pleased with the results. It is most definitely a major threat in the UU tier.
The set I used was
Sword Dance
Sucker Punch
Brick Break
Seed Bomb
Aerial Ace or return over Seed Bomb could be considered a minor option for Grass/Poison types if you are paranoid by them. I got several comments saying that they found Shifty difficult to take down and I feel this is the only SD set it can run (in the current UU). AA isn't necessary for fighting types as Sucker Punch does a suprisingly high amount of damage (after 1 SD) to any scarfed Hitmonlee, Blaziken, or Technitop do to their realitively weak defensive/hp stat or combination there of.
Yes I know this set has some counters, poison types being most of them it its still quite an effective set.
I ran it with Early Bird as an option to enact sleep clause from sleepers if i felt it necessary ( I ran it on a team with primeape and shaymin) as it is as good as pokemon as any to enable sleep clause because it may actually wake up sooner.
I would like to revamp shiftry but I would appreciate some help from someone as this would be my first revamp. I would especially like some help with anything Uber related as I never really plays ubers. I do know that physical ubers, shiftry should probably be on there since it hits most ubers on their weaker stats.
Lead Empoleon
@ Leftovers / Chople Berry
Modest
EV: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 6 Speed
Hydro Pump / Surf
Ice Beam / Aqua Jet
Grass Knot
Stealth Rock
lead Empoleon I tried out today and fared well with other leads. the EV's lay out maximum hp to soak in attacks nicely and I figured it would be an effective lead because of its 12 resistances. hydro Pump is for extra damage and will 2HKO all of the steel type leads thrown at it w/ or w/o leftovers. Surf is another option but it falls short. ice Beam picks off dragon types in general, because this thing could be used late-game to come in on a locked in dragon attack, it basically gives me extra coverage. grass Knot + 6 EVs on my Speed ensures me OHKO on Swampert leads. they normally run relaxed nature so it wouldn't be a problem. Grass Knot allows me to hit opposing bulky waters anyways. Here is how I fare well with those other leads. also I slashed in Aqua Jet in place of Ice Beam to remove choice users.
@ Leftovers / Chople Berry
Modest
EV: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 6 Speed
Hydro Pump / Surf
Ice Beam / Aqua Jet
Grass Knot
Stealth Rock
lead Empoleon I tried out today and fared well with other leads. the EV's lay out maximum hp to soak in attacks nicely and I figured it would be an effective lead because of its 12 resistances. hydro Pump is for extra damage and will 2HKO all of the steel type leads thrown at it w/ or w/o leftovers. Surf is another option but it falls short. ice Beam picks off dragon types in general, because this thing could be used late-game to come in on a locked in dragon attack, it basically gives me extra coverage. grass Knot + 6 EVs on my Speed ensures me OHKO on Swampert leads. they normally run relaxed nature so it wouldn't be a problem. Grass Knot allows me to hit opposing bulky waters anyways. Here is how I fare well with those other leads. also I slashed in Aqua Jet in place of Ice Beam to remove choice users.
vs. standard Metagross [252 HP / 0 Def]
Hydro Pump will deal: (57.97% - 68.41%) Guaranteed 2HKO.
the other option would be Surf but it will fall short and has a very small chance to 2HKO'ing it. (46.15% - 54.40%)
vs. standard Aerodactyl
Surf + Aqua Jet = OHKO
Hydro Pump + Aqua Jet = OHKO
vs. Lead Infernape
the only "true" counter to this lead, but overall leads tend to have counters. close Combat would be the predicted move, this is where Chople Berry comes in as an option. Surf/Hydro Pump + Aqua Jet will guarantee a OHKO on it.
vs. standard Swampert
grass Knot will OHKO it. you outspeed standard Swampert.
vs. standard Hippowdon
this is where packing more punch will help. Hydro Pump secures a OHKO on 252 Hp / 88 SpD Hippowdon. Surf will fall short but you will 2HKO it.
vs. standard Bronzong
i'm not really sure but Hypnosis has died out and it's only sign of damaging me is Earthquake which is a 2-3hko depending on the item you have. hydro Pump 2hko's it and Surf 3-4hko's it.
vs. Tyranitar
Hydro Pump on 252 HP / 0 SpD : (95.54% - 112.87%)
a very high chance of OHKO'ing it. I don't know the standard EV spread of Tyranitar leads but it goes to show. This could be problematic also depending on EV Spread..
vs. Heatran
hydro Pump or Surf will OHKO it, especially leads that tend to run Naive versions. Earth Power will fail to OHKO this thing due to it's nice SpD base stat.
vs. Jirachi
known for versatility. trick will ruin all bulky leads, but laying down SR is a must. Scarf Versions are not problematic.. Iron Head can't spam me, it results to trick or thunder punch. thunder Punch will 2-3 HKO me depending on item held. While I 2HKO with Hydro Pump or OHKO some varients.
vs standard Azelf
k resist Psychic and Explosion and i am neutral to flamethrower which probably wont deal much. flamethrower would be the bad move against this because i will ohko with Surf + Aqua Jet or Hydro Pump + Aqua Jet, especially ones that run Naive versions.
SMEARGLE @ Focus Sash
Lunar Dancer
~Lunar Dance
~Spore
~Thunder Wave
~U-Turn
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
Own Tempo
Focus Sash
252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
Smeargle and Cresselia are the only two Pokemon who get access to Lunar Dance, a move that causes the user to faint and fully heals the entering Pokemon. Cresselia would usually be the best user of its signature move, but Smeargle does have its uses. For instance, it gets access to Spore as well as Lunar Dance, which allows you to sleep a foe and Lunar Dance in a teammate safely, whether they keep the sleeping Pokemon in or not. Thunder Wave allows you to cripple a second opponent with good prediction, while U-Turn allows you scout while doing some (pathetic) damage.
In addition, you can also use this set in UU, where Cress is banned. Few teams can survive a Scarfed-Medicham rampage twice, for instance, which is exactly what they will be seeing. Since your opponent might be asleep, you might even be able to set up before sweeping!
This set is far from perfect, but it works fine for me, albeit a little hard to pull off. Comments? Anybody have a good replacement for U-Turn?
SMEARGLE @ Focus Sash
Lunar Dancer
~Lunar Dance
~Spore
~Thunder Wave
~U-Turn
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
Own Tempo
Focus Sash
252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
Smeargle and Cresselia are the only two Pokemon who get access to Lunar Dance, a move that causes the user to faint and fully heals the entering Pokemon. Cresselia would usually be the best user of its signature move, but Smeargle does have its uses. For instance, it gets access to Spore as well as Lunar Dance, which allows you to sleep a foe and Lunar Dance in a teammate safely, whether they keep the sleeping Pokemon in or not. Thunder Wave allows you to cripple a second opponent with good prediction, while U-Turn allows you scout while doing some (pathetic) damage.
In addition, you can also use this set in UU, where Cress is banned. Few teams can survive a Scarfed-Medicham rampage twice, for instance, which is exactly what they will be seeing. Since your opponent might be asleep, you might even be able to set up before sweeping!
This set is far from perfect, but it works fine for me, albeit a little hard to pull off. Comments? Anybody have a good replacement for U-Turn?
Thats actually very similar to Mesprit's set, but Spore makes it actually quite good, Ill try that out.
I would definately say take out Thunder Wave though, for Reflect or Light Screen, even Spikes.
- Status