That's a new one.
But the fact that we're discussing Ditto in the soon-to-come Gen V OU metagame is surprising enough. :P
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Ditto
- Thread starter Emperor
- Start date
But the fact that we're discussing Ditto in the soon-to-come Gen V OU metagame is surprising enough. :P
There are so many things this gen that if you told me even last month would be happening I'd tell you you were crazy.
Scarf Ditto has crazy potential. Even if it didn't copy stat boosts, it would still be a revenge-killing force to reckon with.
Holy crap. I hadn't even thought of that. If you have scarf ditto in your party, your opponent getting to +6 can be GG for them
Looks like Shanderaa trapping something and boosting up to 6 Calm Minds isn't much to fear after all.
Wow, ditto seems amazing now, especially as a revenge killer. People have said that it is especially good at revenge killing, but I think it can also switch in to good effect.
1. Against DD'ers, you can switch in as they dragon dance. The only thing is, they have to be going for +2/+2 or higher.
Turn one, they DD.
Turn two, you switch to ditto and they DD again.
Turn three, their speed is at x2, but your speed is at x2.25, so you outspeed them. Very risky, but it could work.
2. Well, a lot pokemon resist their stab moves, whether or not they are immune. And of course you might intimidate them. This might not be a good idea, though.
I can see boosting attackers falling in popularity. If you boost and they don't switch, you kill one pokemon and have to switch out of ditto. Double switches tricking ditto into a wall might be seen too. Ditto can be played around, but unless you can set up a sub somehow, not more than one pokemon swept per sweep!
Oh, and of course you can can set up with a ghost or psychic type, get a KO, be killed by ditto, and have a pursuit trapper fight back against a hopefully resisted (ghost) attack.
1. Against DD'ers, you can switch in as they dragon dance. The only thing is, they have to be going for +2/+2 or higher.
Turn one, they DD.
Turn two, you switch to ditto and they DD again.
Turn three, their speed is at x2, but your speed is at x2.25, so you outspeed them. Very risky, but it could work.
2. Well, a lot pokemon resist their stab moves, whether or not they are immune. And of course you might intimidate them. This might not be a good idea, though.
I can see boosting attackers falling in popularity. If you boost and they don't switch, you kill one pokemon and have to switch out of ditto. Double switches tricking ditto into a wall might be seen too. Ditto can be played around, but unless you can set up a sub somehow, not more than one pokemon swept per sweep!
Oh, and of course you can can set up with a ghost or psychic type, get a KO, be killed by ditto, and have a pursuit trapper fight back against a hopefully resisted (ghost) attack.
Impossible. If a large number of Pokemon all wound up in UU, they'd balance each other out enough to stay there.
Besides, it's too early to say just how effective this will be overall. It might turn out to be a bit limited in its options to be worth a team slot. I'm sure it'll be good, but the question is how good.
I can see Pursuit-weak set-up sweepers baiting the Ditto switch-in and switching out for Scizor/Tyranitar (provided the set-up sweeper doesn't pack a Fire or Fighting attack) to Pursuit the hell out of the Scarf Ditto.
Which would require your opponent to be using a Pursuit-weak set-up sweeper that can't find its way past Scizor or Tyranitar. Bad idea.
yeah, it could happen but probably not that often. Most pursuitalbe sweepers DO have a fire/fighting move for exactly that reason. To not have a fire/psychic move on your pokemon just for the sake of a ditto maybe being on your opponents team is just too much
*ninja'd*
I love how prediction-oriented this generation is shaping up to be. Ditto, if the ability works like we suspect at this point, will cause a lot of sweepers to think twice about setting up as opposed to merely attacking, and the Ditto user himself will have to weigh the rewards of revenging versus possibly walking into a powerful Life Orb boosted hit. I can see pivots becoming extremely important on offensive teams, especially bulky ones with Pursuit (Scizor/Tyranitar) because offensive teams will need a way to get rid of Ditto before attempting to sweep with most Pokemon.
This is what CAP's Utility Counter should have been...
This is what CAP's Utility Counter should have been...
Guys, what we have on our hands here is an OU Ditto. This. Is. Huge. This is like Farfetch'd becoming Uber or something: we've got an absolute joke Pokemon becoming a top-tier revenge killer overnight. Beyond the sheer unbelieveableness of the situation, though, there's some real strategic weight here. Any and all set-up Pokes are going to be in constant fear of Scarf-Ditto wrecking their entire team. I like the idea of a lead Ditto in theory, but this takes away its central value: the element of surprise. Perhaps it's workable, though; once Shoddy 2's up and running, we can test this more thoroughly.
Also, hi Smogon peeps.
Also, hi Smogon peeps.
So just to sum our ditto moveset up...it's not that complicated
Ditto
Nature: Any
Moveset: Transform
Ability: Eccentric
Evs: 252 hp *or however they do the system this gen*
Item: Scarf/Leftovers
Scarf gives you a guarenteed revenge kill on faster sweepers without a scarf/set up sweepers but leftovers gives you the option to switch moves after you kill something and have the ability to copy slower, non set-up pokemon which is definitely something ditto would like. However, it is at the sacrifice that ditto is no longer almost guarenteed to outspeed.
So now I guess the opinions come in...if you were to use ditto would you use a scarf or leftovers? Or is there some godly new item not metioned here so far?
Continue discussions!
Ditto
Nature: Any
Moveset: Transform
Ability: Eccentric
Evs: 252 hp *or however they do the system this gen*
Item: Scarf/Leftovers
Scarf gives you a guarenteed revenge kill on faster sweepers without a scarf/set up sweepers but leftovers gives you the option to switch moves after you kill something and have the ability to copy slower, non set-up pokemon which is definitely something ditto would like. However, it is at the sacrifice that ditto is no longer almost guarenteed to outspeed.
So now I guess the opinions come in...if you were to use ditto would you use a scarf or leftovers? Or is there some godly new item not metioned here so far?
Continue discussions!
WECAMEASROMANS
Banned deucer.
If transform works the same in fifth gen as the same for this gen, and if Ditto's new ability really does work, I'm pretty sure it's going to end up uber.
Emperor why the hell would you ever run Leftovers? Speed tying will just get you swept half the time. Choice Scarf lets you kill, and sometimes sweep.
So the question is what counters Ditto? Actually that's a bad question since obviously it appears there isn't any consistent counter against Ditto. What strategies are good at preventing him from doing his job?
Oh wait. Trick Room teams should be really annoying for people who rely on Ditto I would guess.
Oh wait. Trick Room teams should be really annoying for people who rely on Ditto I would guess.
Ditto fans are going to love the change. I know my friend will considering he's obsessed with getting a shiny. It sounds gimmicky but I think its fun to play around with on the side ;)
Well, it seems like most people's first instinct is to slap a scarf on Ditto and use it to revenge kill. The best counter would be to, well, switch to something else. Being stuck on a move that is NVE or has no effect on your poke will ruin the poor Ditto.
Of course, if you've already DDed up and you expect something like an Outrage, hope you have something in reserve to take it out.
The great thing about Ditto is if you dare use a setup sweeper you'd better hope to your favorite God that you have something capable of revenging that sweeper +1 extra Speed.
Ditto is the only thing that keeps me from being afraid of Garchomp / Salamence / etc.
Ditto is the only thing that keeps me from being afraid of Garchomp / Salamence / etc.
it seems nice but I am unsure on how effective it will really be. Granted Ditto having a viable niche is something it did not really have before. It can make for a nice scout too
Wow... if ditto really works this way it could change the metagame so much it goes straight to Uber.
Hell, I'd be darned surprised if it doesn't. This seems incredibly similar to Wobbuffet... previously useless gimmick pokemon is given a new ability that suddenly makes it good at what it was originally intended to do. Suddenly becomes such an incredibly potent threat that it changes the entire meta-game in such a way that it gets relegated to ubers.
Oh, and switching to a pokemon that resists the copied pokemon's attacks and then stats up itself would also be useless, and all ditto has to do is switch itself out on the set up and then swap back in and copy the stats of the counter. If the switching match continues, eventually ditto is going to win as it's the only one getting in any attacks.
This assumes of course eccentric works as we're predicting. If it doesn't, then who knows what'll be the result.
Hell, I'd be darned surprised if it doesn't. This seems incredibly similar to Wobbuffet... previously useless gimmick pokemon is given a new ability that suddenly makes it good at what it was originally intended to do. Suddenly becomes such an incredibly potent threat that it changes the entire meta-game in such a way that it gets relegated to ubers.
Oh, and switching to a pokemon that resists the copied pokemon's attacks and then stats up itself would also be useless, and all ditto has to do is switch itself out on the set up and then swap back in and copy the stats of the counter. If the switching match continues, eventually ditto is going to win as it's the only one getting in any attacks.
This assumes of course eccentric works as we're predicting. If it doesn't, then who knows what'll be the result.