Yeah after thinking about it I agree with you. Personally I have never had much trouble with SKymin, but my team has a pretty big advantage over it naturally. I can see where you are coming fromand agree that it should be Uber in that case, simply because of SpDef drop + flinchax
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 1 - ...wait, I'm not Jumpman16!
- Thread starter Philip7086
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Posting to say that I completely agree with Jabba's post. The one that he posted a few pages ago. Yes...
Man, people talk too much in this thread. So hard to keep up O_O I don't even know what to reply to anymore, but I did want to say that I completely agree with Jabba.
Man, people talk too much in this thread. So hard to keep up O_O I don't even know what to reply to anymore, but I did want to say that I completely agree with Jabba.
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
LMFAO this is the dumbest thing I have heard all day!! There is no appeals process! Once something gets banned to ubers, it usually stays there for good! We should wait until the complete movesets/possible abilities of all the pokemon, and at that time the metagame will be complete. Right now what we have is an incomplete metagame that judgements should not be made about.
Also, after taking a closer look at clefable movepool, I think that it may still be a decent counter. It's true that octillery may get speed boosts, but clefable gets psych up, so couldn't she just copy the speed boosts (and any other boosts) that octillery gets?? And if clefable is also getting a speed boost, that would mean that she would be faster than octillery, and could poison him before he could get another sub up.
@lmitchell0012
Just to let you know, there is a appeals. In gen 4 latias went fro ubers to ou, then back to ubers. Stop CAN be unbanned :/.
Just to let you know, there is a appeals. In gen 4 latias went fro ubers to ou, then back to ubers. Stop CAN be unbanned :/.
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
I was under the impression that once something is in ubers, it's there for good. Is that not true??
Yeah idiot, it's not true. Hence Deoxy-S and Latias. LOLOLOLOL. Yeah moron, still not dumber than the quote I sigged.
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
Flaming I see. Enjoy your infraction from the mods :-). Oh, and btw, ask the mods, they'll tell you about the whole "appeals" process. Pretty much everything that gets banned to ubers stays there. Oh, and re-read my post. I didn't say that we've never put something back in OU. I said that we USUALLY don't.
Not the first or last time anyone has been called a dumbass/idiot/moron in the thread, and I don't regret it anyway. Enjoy being the little rat that you are. Btw if mods want to look, he was looking for a row anyway, just see my VM's. And no, see Smogon history and their have been appeals.
*sigh* All I can say is that you should go play more and get your concepts correct.
Yes, and that means Rayquaza has already killed something, this is not mention that Ray is bulky enough to take a weak Ice Beam if he's holding Yache Berry anyway (I mean, come on, does Ray REALLY need Life Orb to rape OU??).
I'll go get up some calcs a bit later. I can't believe I need to spend this much effort trying to argue something this simple. Anyway, Jolly Ray has 399 Attack, Jolly Mence has 369. 399-369=30.
Ray takes 25% from SR, not 50%. He can easily switch back in.
(At if you played Ubers)
Go play some Ubers, get some experience first before theorymonning this crap.
I was thinking Waterfall, actually, but then you'll tell me I'm walled by Skarm, but whatever. Apart from Heatran, tell me ONE Pokemon that can switch into a STAB move from Rayquaza.
Well you just admitted yourself that you failed. Not one of them are counters.
Err it was not lv1 Kyogre/Groudon for DPPt, it was lv~65 Kyogre/Groudon with 5-turn weather abilities, for the DP metagame in the CaP server.
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
I didn't say that there have never been appeals. And btw, name even one instance where I flamed you. There aren't any!!
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
I said there's no appeals process NOW. I didn't say that we've NEVER had an appeals process.
Stop the personal attacks, you're not even trying to relate to the topic anymore.
So this has some content, I'm going agree with Mario with Lasers' PR post that we shouldn't be banning anything so soon. We're a month into the banlist's lifespan, less than a month into the server, so the metagame hasn't had time to settle let alone show any "obvious" ubers. Most arguments and mentalities will be grandfathered from Generation IV. The testing period needs to be expanded by quite a bit, new things are being discovered every other day. First it was all the Beta/theorymon pokemon like Dory, then all the old suspects, then weather, then Inconsistant popped up...who knows what's next. I just feel that banning anything so soon will have ill repercussions as opposed to giving it a few months. We've got all the time in the world, what's the hurry? (for the record I'm very pro-ban)
EDIT: I wasn't aiming that at you lmitchell, but you're not helping by responding negatively. He's the one at fault for making a big deal out of a simple mistake.
So this has some content, I'm going agree with Mario with Lasers' PR post that we shouldn't be banning anything so soon. We're a month into the banlist's lifespan, less than a month into the server, so the metagame hasn't had time to settle let alone show any "obvious" ubers. Most arguments and mentalities will be grandfathered from Generation IV. The testing period needs to be expanded by quite a bit, new things are being discovered every other day. First it was all the Beta/theorymon pokemon like Dory, then all the old suspects, then weather, then Inconsistant popped up...who knows what's next. I just feel that banning anything so soon will have ill repercussions as opposed to giving it a few months. We've got all the time in the world, what's the hurry? (for the record I'm very pro-ban)
EDIT: I wasn't aiming that at you lmitchell, but you're not helping by responding negatively. He's the one at fault for making a big deal out of a simple mistake.
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
You know, all this shit started when he added that quote to his sig. I'm willing to drop this if he takes that stupid quote out.
/ignore all posts by Gabe and Mitchell
Solved.
Agreeing with Veedrock and Mario with Lasers. Practically EVERYONE is just testing out new Pokemon, as well as former Ubers, and new items. Nothing is ready to be banned.
Also this is probably irrelevant since I haven't played Gen 5 yet.
Solved.
Agreeing with Veedrock and Mario with Lasers. Practically EVERYONE is just testing out new Pokemon, as well as former Ubers, and new items. Nothing is ready to be banned.
Also this is probably irrelevant since I haven't played Gen 5 yet.
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
That's basically what I've been saying throughout this whole thread -_-
I don't quite like the direction this thread is taking. I see either a troll-fest or a fist-fight coming, and I don't want to be in either one.
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I currently think that the only broken thing is Inconsistent. It takes away all control from either player. The pokemon's fate is in the hands of luck. Like when they get -4 Sp Def in the first 4 turns. And +0 evasion. Then you OHKO easily (yes that happened to my opponent once). Then sometimes they get +2 Def, + 2 Sp Def, and +2 Evasion in the first three turns. Then they proceed to wall/KO your team because they got lucky in those first few turns.
I'm borderline on Darkrai and Skymin. They are a little bit too much for OU, but perhaps not quite ban-worthy, either. They can be beaten easily enough, but you typically have to devote a team slot just for them.
Deoxys_A is not broken at all, imo. For one thing, it still has the terrible weakness to priority. For another, it's easy to bring down without priority. Basically anything hat can take a hit is a counter. For instance, Evo Stone Porygon2 avoids being 2HKOed by SuperPower with just a little defense investment. Not that everyone should run Porygon2, but I'm saying that it doesn't OHKO everything.
Manaphy is incredibly strong once it sets up. But I've found it relatively easy to prevent that. I say not broken.
Doryuuzu is lolololololololololol you call that broken?
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I currently think that the only broken thing is Inconsistent. It takes away all control from either player. The pokemon's fate is in the hands of luck. Like when they get -4 Sp Def in the first 4 turns. And +0 evasion. Then you OHKO easily (yes that happened to my opponent once). Then sometimes they get +2 Def, + 2 Sp Def, and +2 Evasion in the first three turns. Then they proceed to wall/KO your team because they got lucky in those first few turns.
I'm borderline on Darkrai and Skymin. They are a little bit too much for OU, but perhaps not quite ban-worthy, either. They can be beaten easily enough, but you typically have to devote a team slot just for them.
Deoxys_A is not broken at all, imo. For one thing, it still has the terrible weakness to priority. For another, it's easy to bring down without priority. Basically anything hat can take a hit is a counter. For instance, Evo Stone Porygon2 avoids being 2HKOed by SuperPower with just a little defense investment. Not that everyone should run Porygon2, but I'm saying that it doesn't OHKO everything.
Manaphy is incredibly strong once it sets up. But I've found it relatively easy to prevent that. I say not broken.
Doryuuzu is lolololololololololol you call that broken?
I have trouble OHKO'ing Manaphy, so in the rain he is a monster I'd say is worthy of suspect status. Still, I didn't want an initial banlist so we could really test everything, and for the same reason I want another round with the same Pokemon (except inconsistent)
Shaymin can cause problems with its power and flinch hax, Darkrai very underwhelming. Overall, I'd support a blanket ban on inconsistent and wouldn't be upset to see Manaphy go too.
To Gabe and Mitchell, we're big boys and girls. Let's cut the petty attacks and act like it. I came expecting discussion and saw both of you flinging attacks at each other instead.
Shaymin can cause problems with its power and flinch hax, Darkrai very underwhelming. Overall, I'd support a blanket ban on inconsistent and wouldn't be upset to see Manaphy go too.
To Gabe and Mitchell, we're big boys and girls. Let's cut the petty attacks and act like it. I came expecting discussion and saw both of you flinging attacks at each other instead.
That made me laugh like a lot XD...
Well anyway even though i somewhat agree that this was a bit too early for suspects and the metagame isn't far too stable and hasnt developed properly yet I still think this is the ideal time to get rid of certain obvious "Ubers".Some of the mons are just simply clearly broken and theres no way to get around that.I honestly doubt any amount of time would change that and they will pretty much deffinetly stay broken.But yah thats just my opinion.
I forgot about Rayquaza in OU. No, simply no. It is bad enough in Ubers where I can run Lugia and Groudon to wall it. I don't want to have to try to stop it with Porygon2 and Skarmory. Due to Ubers being suggested for demotion I wanted to post a list of my thoughts on the ones with the greatest chances. Starting with Lugia, maybe editing mores in later and maybe not. Not to spoil the ending, but I'm opposed to any of the current Ubers being brought down. Though hypothetically, if Manaphy were banned and then Politoed months later I'd be willing to test Manaphy in a game without rain. Or if something were wrongly banned, whatever, just the Ubers we have now seem too well justified.
Lugia
Choice Band Tyranitar does 100% - 118.3% with Stone Edge. This is pre multi-scale of course, assuming he doesn't recover as he outspeeds you with base 110 speed and recover to full health to half that. +2 Darkrai does with Dark Pulse 115.4% - 136.1%. Lugia is certainly beatable, but I'm afraid the lengths one much reach are too high.
Lugia
Choice Band Tyranitar does 100% - 118.3% with Stone Edge. This is pre multi-scale of course, assuming he doesn't recover as he outspeeds you with base 110 speed and recover to full health to half that. +2 Darkrai does with Dark Pulse 115.4% - 136.1%. Lugia is certainly beatable, but I'm afraid the lengths one much reach are too high.
/ignore all of the flame wars
MY THOUGHTS ON EACH POKE (threat level is out of five)
MANAPHY
Threat level: ***** (in the rain) or ** (outside of rain)
Manaphy is truly a menace in the rain. With the ability to get +3 in a single turn, to completely heal itself, be immune to all status, get a STAB boost, and be incredibly bulky, this thing is extremely broken. The only problem is the rain. There are discussions for banning Politoed/Drizzle, so rain may not be such an issue. If one of these is banned, Manaphy becomes much less of a threat. Outside of the rain, Manaphy is a bulky, powerful, special sweeper, but it isn't too difficult because it can't heal itself and it's very prone to status
VERDICT: Politoed and Manaphy cannot be together in the same metagame. If Politoed is banned, keep Manaphy. If not, ban it.
DARKRAI
Threat level: ***
Isn't it a bitch when Darkrai puts one of your pokemon to sleep, and then just uses Nasty Plot on the switch? Darkrai is certainly a powerful pokemon with plenty of set up oppurtunities and is capable of 6-0'ing unprepared teams. The problem is that most teams are prepared. With Dory running around, every single team needs some kind of strong priority. In most cases, it's a mach punch, which will undoubtedly OHKO Darkrai, but even less powerful moves will probably take care of Darkrai. If your team has Darkrai troubles, you really aren't prepared for this metagame.
VERDICT: Don't ban it, the current metagame weakens it a lot.
DOEXYS-A
Threat level: *****
Okay, this thing is really a problem. This needs to go. Not only is Deoxys-A faster than most Choice Scarf users, but it's really powerful too. After subbing once, it will pretty much destroy you. It's true that it's ridiculously frail, but if it outspeeds and OHKO's most pokemon on your team, then it really doesn't matter.
VERDICT: Ban it now.
DEOXYS-D
Threat level: *
Seriously, Deoxys-D really isn't too bad. There are many powerful wall breakers that can completely destroy it. Its defensive stats are pretty good, but its low HP lets it down. It lacks reliable recovery, even though it has good stat boosting moves. It's a great supporter with Spikes and all, but it just doesn't cut it. I don't see any reason why Deoxys-D can't stay in OU. Hell, even Registeel is bulkier than it and has better typing, yet that was in UU last gen.
VERDICT: Keep it in OU.
DEOXYS-S
Threat level: ***
Suicide leads really aren't as good as they were last gen. Deoxys-S fails to take care of some of the bulkier leads like Politoed and Hippowdon. Deoxys-S is destroyed by priority Taunt, which is a common anti-lead strategy. Furthermore, Espeon renders Deoxys-S useless. Don't get me wrong, Deoxy-S is a great lead, especially if your team needs spikes, but it's nowhere near as broken as it was last gen.
VERDICT: Keep it in OU.
MEW
Threat level: ***
Mew is a very well-rounded pokemon that really didn't change much in the generation shift. Mew was pretty good last gen, and still is this gen. The only thing is, there is really nothing too great about it anymore. It's nice that it can learn all the TMs and be a great baton passers, but other baton passers like Shell Smash Smeargle or Speed Boost Blaziken are just simply better. Mew can be a great support pokemon with TWave, SR and Taunt, but it doesn't stand out too much this generation and rounds out the OU tier nicely.
VERDICT: Keep it in OU.
LATIAS
Threat level: ***
Latias is a dangerous pokemon that can wreak havoc on the opponent's team. Aside from that, I still believe that it isn't too broken and can remain in OU for now. There are many pokemon capable of checking and countering it, and it really deosnt' pose as much of a threat now with powerful walls like Nattorei and Burungeru. Latias may still be a good pokemon, but it's not the monster it was in OU last Gen.
VERDICT: Let's keep it in OU for now.
LATIOS
Threat level: ****
Um, this guy's a different story. Latios is essentially everything Latias is, just amplified. Latias is a much scarier sweeper, and although it isn't nearly as bulky, it makes up for this by being better able to eliminate many of its counters. TrickSpecs or TrickScarf sets are particularly annoying and dangerous. Nevertheless, Latios hasn't really turned the OU tier upside-down as one might expect. The metagame seems to be doing fine with Latios, and I don't believe it's broken enough to warrant a ban.
VERDICT: On the fence a little, but leaning towards OU.
SKYMIN
Threat level: ****
There's a huge debate over Skymin, and it is true that Skymin is a ridiculous sweeper. Nothing can safely switch in due to Seed Flare's 80% special defense drop rate, allowing Skymin to choose the attack of its choice to finish you off. Its fast Air Slashes are tough to deal with and are guaranteed to cause a ragequit or two. Alternitively, it can run a SubSeed set that stalls out the opponent. There are two reasons why I believe that Skymin should not be banned, however. The first is Jarooda. Jarooda's Leaf Storm is very similar to Skymin's Seed Flare. Jarooda's Leaf Storm allows it to raise its special attack, making it easier to finish off the switch in just like Skymin's Seed Flare. Yet, we do not consider Jarooda anything near broken. Now, I understand that Perversity Jarooda hasn't been released yet, and that Skymin and Jarooda have very different stats, but they are still comparable. The second reason is outclassment as a subseeder. Erufuun is the subseeder of this generation, hands down. There are no other pokemon who do it better, including Skymin. With Erufuun running around, there is really no reason to use Skymin as a subseeder anymore. I understand that Skymin's offensive set is still incredibly dangerous, but i don't believe it's enough to warrant a ban.
VERDICT: Fairly undecided, but currently OU.
WOBBUFFET
Threat level: **
Wobbuffet is an odd pokemon in the sense that its performance is based entirely on those around it. Wobbuffet is used to counter/mirror coat pokemon it's against, encore non-damaging moves and to give that free turn to its teamate. Yet I feel like the brokeness of Wobbuffet is determined by the brokeness of its teamate. For example, if Wobby is being used to help set up a CM Spinda, then that's one story. If it's being used to set up a Kingdra in the rain, that's another. Wobbuffet really shouldn't have a tier in my mind, as its performance is the same in all tiers.
VERDICT: Definitely keep in OU for now, but I'd like to see Wobby in UU or even NU.
POLITOED
Threat level: *****
I think rain is the most dangerous of the weathers as it is capable of being bulky and deadly at the same time. Politoed is therefore the ultimate supporter for this playstyle. There are some saying that we need to ban Kingdra and some of the other sweepers, but there really is no way to cut down on rain's current brokeness except to ban Politoed or Drizzle. Sure, there are counters, but there are only a few and rain teams know how to seek them out and to eliminate them. I'd say that rain is an extremely broken playstyle and something needs to be done about it.
VERDICT: Ban Drizzle, but not Politoed, because let's face it it's not Politoed that's broken, it's Drizzle.
DORYUUZU
Threat level: **
Doryuuzu is dangerous, but guys, let's face it. It has a decent amount of counters. It's not overpowered. There are clear ways to take it down. If you are whining about Doryuuzu sweeping your team, I suggest that you A) Grow a pair, and B) Find something that can handle Doryuuzu.
VERDICT: LOL
NINETALES
Threat level: ***
Sun teams are strong, don't get me wrong, but they pale in comparison to sand and rain. Sun teams aren't as broken as rain, and they really aren't too much of a problem. Chlorophyl can be just as much of a bitch as Swift Swim or Sand Throw, but it's really not the same thing. Sun can be handled easily, and there's really no reason for Ninetales to go to Ubers.
VERDICT: Keep it in OU.
INCONSISTENT
Threat level: *****
Inconsistent is by far the cheapest way to win a battle. It has no strategy, no counters, and no skill. There is no way I'm going to play with Inconsistent on the filed.
VERDICT: Ban the ability, because none of these pokemon are anywhere near broken besides their ability.
Now everyone pick apart and argue every single piece of this, because I know you will.
MY THOUGHTS ON EACH POKE (threat level is out of five)
MANAPHY
Threat level: ***** (in the rain) or ** (outside of rain)
Manaphy is truly a menace in the rain. With the ability to get +3 in a single turn, to completely heal itself, be immune to all status, get a STAB boost, and be incredibly bulky, this thing is extremely broken. The only problem is the rain. There are discussions for banning Politoed/Drizzle, so rain may not be such an issue. If one of these is banned, Manaphy becomes much less of a threat. Outside of the rain, Manaphy is a bulky, powerful, special sweeper, but it isn't too difficult because it can't heal itself and it's very prone to status
VERDICT: Politoed and Manaphy cannot be together in the same metagame. If Politoed is banned, keep Manaphy. If not, ban it.
DARKRAI
Threat level: ***
Isn't it a bitch when Darkrai puts one of your pokemon to sleep, and then just uses Nasty Plot on the switch? Darkrai is certainly a powerful pokemon with plenty of set up oppurtunities and is capable of 6-0'ing unprepared teams. The problem is that most teams are prepared. With Dory running around, every single team needs some kind of strong priority. In most cases, it's a mach punch, which will undoubtedly OHKO Darkrai, but even less powerful moves will probably take care of Darkrai. If your team has Darkrai troubles, you really aren't prepared for this metagame.
VERDICT: Don't ban it, the current metagame weakens it a lot.
DOEXYS-A
Threat level: *****
Okay, this thing is really a problem. This needs to go. Not only is Deoxys-A faster than most Choice Scarf users, but it's really powerful too. After subbing once, it will pretty much destroy you. It's true that it's ridiculously frail, but if it outspeeds and OHKO's most pokemon on your team, then it really doesn't matter.
VERDICT: Ban it now.
DEOXYS-D
Threat level: *
Seriously, Deoxys-D really isn't too bad. There are many powerful wall breakers that can completely destroy it. Its defensive stats are pretty good, but its low HP lets it down. It lacks reliable recovery, even though it has good stat boosting moves. It's a great supporter with Spikes and all, but it just doesn't cut it. I don't see any reason why Deoxys-D can't stay in OU. Hell, even Registeel is bulkier than it and has better typing, yet that was in UU last gen.
VERDICT: Keep it in OU.
DEOXYS-S
Threat level: ***
Suicide leads really aren't as good as they were last gen. Deoxys-S fails to take care of some of the bulkier leads like Politoed and Hippowdon. Deoxys-S is destroyed by priority Taunt, which is a common anti-lead strategy. Furthermore, Espeon renders Deoxys-S useless. Don't get me wrong, Deoxy-S is a great lead, especially if your team needs spikes, but it's nowhere near as broken as it was last gen.
VERDICT: Keep it in OU.
MEW
Threat level: ***
Mew is a very well-rounded pokemon that really didn't change much in the generation shift. Mew was pretty good last gen, and still is this gen. The only thing is, there is really nothing too great about it anymore. It's nice that it can learn all the TMs and be a great baton passers, but other baton passers like Shell Smash Smeargle or Speed Boost Blaziken are just simply better. Mew can be a great support pokemon with TWave, SR and Taunt, but it doesn't stand out too much this generation and rounds out the OU tier nicely.
VERDICT: Keep it in OU.
LATIAS
Threat level: ***
Latias is a dangerous pokemon that can wreak havoc on the opponent's team. Aside from that, I still believe that it isn't too broken and can remain in OU for now. There are many pokemon capable of checking and countering it, and it really deosnt' pose as much of a threat now with powerful walls like Nattorei and Burungeru. Latias may still be a good pokemon, but it's not the monster it was in OU last Gen.
VERDICT: Let's keep it in OU for now.
LATIOS
Threat level: ****
Um, this guy's a different story. Latios is essentially everything Latias is, just amplified. Latias is a much scarier sweeper, and although it isn't nearly as bulky, it makes up for this by being better able to eliminate many of its counters. TrickSpecs or TrickScarf sets are particularly annoying and dangerous. Nevertheless, Latios hasn't really turned the OU tier upside-down as one might expect. The metagame seems to be doing fine with Latios, and I don't believe it's broken enough to warrant a ban.
VERDICT: On the fence a little, but leaning towards OU.
SKYMIN
Threat level: ****
There's a huge debate over Skymin, and it is true that Skymin is a ridiculous sweeper. Nothing can safely switch in due to Seed Flare's 80% special defense drop rate, allowing Skymin to choose the attack of its choice to finish you off. Its fast Air Slashes are tough to deal with and are guaranteed to cause a ragequit or two. Alternitively, it can run a SubSeed set that stalls out the opponent. There are two reasons why I believe that Skymin should not be banned, however. The first is Jarooda. Jarooda's Leaf Storm is very similar to Skymin's Seed Flare. Jarooda's Leaf Storm allows it to raise its special attack, making it easier to finish off the switch in just like Skymin's Seed Flare. Yet, we do not consider Jarooda anything near broken. Now, I understand that Perversity Jarooda hasn't been released yet, and that Skymin and Jarooda have very different stats, but they are still comparable. The second reason is outclassment as a subseeder. Erufuun is the subseeder of this generation, hands down. There are no other pokemon who do it better, including Skymin. With Erufuun running around, there is really no reason to use Skymin as a subseeder anymore. I understand that Skymin's offensive set is still incredibly dangerous, but i don't believe it's enough to warrant a ban.
VERDICT: Fairly undecided, but currently OU.
WOBBUFFET
Threat level: **
Wobbuffet is an odd pokemon in the sense that its performance is based entirely on those around it. Wobbuffet is used to counter/mirror coat pokemon it's against, encore non-damaging moves and to give that free turn to its teamate. Yet I feel like the brokeness of Wobbuffet is determined by the brokeness of its teamate. For example, if Wobby is being used to help set up a CM Spinda, then that's one story. If it's being used to set up a Kingdra in the rain, that's another. Wobbuffet really shouldn't have a tier in my mind, as its performance is the same in all tiers.
VERDICT: Definitely keep in OU for now, but I'd like to see Wobby in UU or even NU.
POLITOED
Threat level: *****
I think rain is the most dangerous of the weathers as it is capable of being bulky and deadly at the same time. Politoed is therefore the ultimate supporter for this playstyle. There are some saying that we need to ban Kingdra and some of the other sweepers, but there really is no way to cut down on rain's current brokeness except to ban Politoed or Drizzle. Sure, there are counters, but there are only a few and rain teams know how to seek them out and to eliminate them. I'd say that rain is an extremely broken playstyle and something needs to be done about it.
VERDICT: Ban Drizzle, but not Politoed, because let's face it it's not Politoed that's broken, it's Drizzle.
DORYUUZU
Threat level: **
Doryuuzu is dangerous, but guys, let's face it. It has a decent amount of counters. It's not overpowered. There are clear ways to take it down. If you are whining about Doryuuzu sweeping your team, I suggest that you A) Grow a pair, and B) Find something that can handle Doryuuzu.
VERDICT: LOL
NINETALES
Threat level: ***
Sun teams are strong, don't get me wrong, but they pale in comparison to sand and rain. Sun teams aren't as broken as rain, and they really aren't too much of a problem. Chlorophyl can be just as much of a bitch as Swift Swim or Sand Throw, but it's really not the same thing. Sun can be handled easily, and there's really no reason for Ninetales to go to Ubers.
VERDICT: Keep it in OU.
INCONSISTENT
Threat level: *****
Inconsistent is by far the cheapest way to win a battle. It has no strategy, no counters, and no skill. There is no way I'm going to play with Inconsistent on the filed.
VERDICT: Ban the ability, because none of these pokemon are anywhere near broken besides their ability.
Now everyone pick apart and argue every single piece of this, because I know you will.
Okay, first of all, I want to say that I believe RAYQUAZA IS UBER.
I'm not going to dig through the thread to find the exact post, but someone mentioned something about discussing ubers as candidates in OU. It was interesting to see what everyone thought, but at this point, I think we need to steer away from the steel/dragon trend of gen 4. We already have enough dragons in OU, and it's dragonites' time in the spotlight.
Say nattorei switches in, and you alreay have a sub up. leech seed won't work. So your only option is to switch out, or use air slash. You need 5 hits to KO natt, but he only needs two gyro balls to kill you from behind the sub.
Keep in mind that, factoring in the accuracy of air slash, your chances of flinching an opponent are lower than hitting with hypnosis.
So does hypnosis always miss? Or does air slash flinch everytime? You can't have it both ways.
Oh, and 1400 is the target for qualifying to vote, right? Standard OU tier?
I'm not going to dig through the thread to find the exact post, but someone mentioned something about discussing ubers as candidates in OU. It was interesting to see what everyone thought, but at this point, I think we need to steer away from the steel/dragon trend of gen 4. We already have enough dragons in OU, and it's dragonites' time in the spotlight.
Why do you all act like skymin's secondary effects have 100% consistency? Both STAB moves can miss, and if you're using seed flare against nattorei, you're an idiot.
Say nattorei switches in, and you alreay have a sub up. leech seed won't work. So your only option is to switch out, or use air slash. You need 5 hits to KO natt, but he only needs two gyro balls to kill you from behind the sub.
Keep in mind that, factoring in the accuracy of air slash, your chances of flinching an opponent are lower than hitting with hypnosis.
So does hypnosis always miss? Or does air slash flinch everytime? You can't have it both ways.
Oh, and 1400 is the target for qualifying to vote, right? Standard OU tier?
@ sax king
You say that if a team has issues with Darkrai it's not prepared for the metagame. I could say the same about Deoxy-A.
Seriously, in a well-made team it will KO maybe one member. Maybe 0 with smart playing.
Actually, Nattorei 3HKOes a Skymin with Gyro Ball.
what is this i dont even...
Once again, I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't get what you're saying.
Nope. It's 1500.
You say that if a team has issues with Darkrai it's not prepared for the metagame. I could say the same about Deoxy-A.
Seriously, in a well-made team it will KO maybe one member. Maybe 0 with smart playing.
You want to steer away from Dragon/Steel trend? I want Linoone in OU. Not to be an ass, I agree with you. But what we want doesn't really matter.
Actually, Nattorei 3HKOes a Skymin with Gyro Ball.
what is this i dont even...
Once again, I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't get what you're saying.
Nope. It's 1500.
Are you suggesting banning Drizzletoed to Ubers or banning it entirely? If the former, think about this: You'd be having two Drizzle users in the same tier. Guess which one is better? Definitely Kyogre. No one would use Drizzletoed in Ubers because it is outclassed in nearly every aspect by Kyogre. If the latter, then it seems like you should ban all the other weather users as well. But if Kyogre is fine in Ubers, then it should stay there, as it's not broken. Banning Drizzletoed from all tiers when it's worse than Kyogre is quite silly, and so is putting it in Ubers where it is outclassed.
Hopefully this post makes sense O_o
Hopefully this post makes sense O_o
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