np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

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You know that most people say those things about pokemon based on their experience with them in battles, right? And if they base it on a analysis, it's still right, as an analysis is made with the experience the writer has with the pokemon.
So please consider this when saying something like that.
I wasn't trying to say that everyone is talking out of their backside. If it came out that way, my apologies.

Simply put, it's better if you cite the example. Saying for example, "Excadrill is obviously broken" with no source isn't doing it justice.

Maybe it's not appropriate, but I was thinking add something like "Excadrill is broken. His sand rush allows him to outspeed any scarfer. In this battle, x happened."
 
Sorry if this has been discussed to death already, but how good is prankster sableye? In theory, it's priority wilowisp would excellent against the likes of exadrill, d-nite, the above terriakion, or just physical sweepers in general.
It has priority Will-o-Wisp...that's about it. Way too frail to do much beyond that and there are better options for priority Taunt. Besides, a lot of D-Nites and Haxorus these days have lum berry, Excadrill after a SD and a burn will just do normal damage.
Maybe it's just me cause I really don't like these utility pokemon. They're useful sometimes, but usually they're just deadweight. I saw Sableye a lot the first few days after it was released, but by now I think most people realized that it's about as overrated as Alex Rodriguez (that's a lot).
 
May I ask where you got you calculations from? Because I just did them by by hand and got 38.28% for Donphan and 42.41% for Hitmontop.
I do calcs manually. Adamant -1 CB Close Combat does 52.632%-62.171% to Hitmontop. +0 CB Close Combat against Donphan, 53.125%-62.760%. Both guaranteed 2HKOs after SR.
 
Sorry if this has been discussed to death already, but how good is prankster sableye? In theory, it's priority wilowisp would excellent against the likes of exadrill, d-nite, the above terriakion, or just physical sweepers in general.
I think as a prankster user, whimsicott is better. Rather than crippling the sweeper, it swing momentum to your side giving you a free turn, or the opportunity to revenge kill if your opponent stays in.
 
To be honest, I'm not content with excadrill right now. Getting free speed boosts just for having tyranitar on your team along with a good typing makes this thing a terrible chore to take down. Also, god help you if they get a SD off. Has anyone found a decent counter to them yet? I've been considering a gliscor, since he seems to fit the bill.
 
skarm walls it to hell. i just dont like the thought of having to force counters on to teams. Thats why i want excadrill out.
 
For the time being, I find that Excadrill should be banned until the OU metagame has gained the means to deal with it without resorting to specific counters and checks, such as Air Balloon pokemon and Skarm, Zong, Gliscor etc.
When for example DW Ditto and Shroomish get released, the strain Excadrill puts on certain playstyles will be lessened from my point of view. How much of these things will happen remains to be seen though.
 
Meh sableye is a fragile exca check count wow shaky accuracy and you wouldn't risk (even if wow works to beat exca then you should rely on confuse hax which is sad)
anyway it's not all bad news for him, the ability to stop cold bpespeon and cmreuniclus is quite big, but outside those 3 immunities (which normal is only useful for rapid spin, srsly) sableye got nothitng, imo it's a very good uu, perhaps future bl but not top ou material
about exca i'm scared, if what Shrang sayd it's true about the Hyper Offensive drop, then after excadrill got banned we would also see a rise from dder like salamence and haxorus (dragonite is already used thanks to multiscale whatever) I don't know if it's worse facing excadrill or those guys, to be honest
 
To be honest, I'm not content with excadrill right now. Getting free speed boosts just for having tyranitar on your team along with a good typing makes this thing a terrible chore to take down. Also, god help you if they get a SD off. Has anyone found a decent counter to them yet? I've been considering a gliscor, since he seems to fit the bill.
There are not many solid counters to excadrill. The reason it hasen't been banned is because it has sooo many checks. Focus sash alakazam is also a new check and when more DW pokes are released, there will be more.
 
There are not many solid counters to excadrill. The reason it hasen't been banned is because it has sooo many checks. Focus sash alakazam is also a new check and when more DW pokes are released, there will be more.
I don't get this. Focus Sash Alakazam is a check to Excadrill now? By that logic, Focus Sash Hitmontop, Focus Sash Infernape and Focus Sash Insert any Pokemon that can OHKO Excadrill here are checks. Except they die at the end of the turn, while Alakazam has to be revenge killed. Big deal.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
no, it's because zam will always be able to come in on the SD, or kill. It's still a check, but he isn't fucked by hazards.
 

Shurtugal

The Enterpriser.
is a Tiering Contributor
Excadrill has a lot of counters, checks, which is why he remains in OU. Let me list them all.

1.) (Politoed/Ninetials) Ninetails is 2HKO'ed by LO Excadrill's earthquake IF Ninetials holds the Shuca Berry. In all honesty, a lot of things use earthquake on Tails, and when the suns up it should outspeed it anyways, and you can proceed to Will-O-Wisp

2.) Hitmontop should be able to take a hit, especially if you pull off an Intimidate. Close Combat, Mach Punch? Sure he can switch out, but you can't ban a Pokemon off other Pokemon teamed with it. Its your job as the trainer to play around his team and take out Excadrill.

3.) Gliscor
Lets see, rock slide/x-scisspr/rapid spin will not do a thing. Excadrill will probably try to pull of a SD, so just play offensive with EQ. It should be like between a 2HKO. I haven't done the calculations, but I played enough around Excadrill to know a range.

4.) Dusclops
This thing is never mentioned. It does way better than sablye, as it can probably take more than 2 hits and he can fire off Will-O-Wisp and cripple Excadrill. Pain Split? Brick Break? NIght Shade? This thing can play around Excadrill, and since hes "always switching" he can't keep the SD boost.

5.) Skarmory
Honestly, it can't get that many flinches everytime. It can abuse roost and make anything Excadrill throws useless. Set up spikes, use roost, brave bird balloon (if any), whirlwind spike spam.


6.) Dusknoir
No need to explain, bigger version of Dusclops with a few defense drops, gains of leftovers, and bigger power boost for Brick Break.

7.) Donphan
Donphan can usually take a hit, fire an Earthquake, and even fire Ice Shard before death.

8.) Sablye
He can fire Will-O-Wisp on any physical sweeper. With some blissey/chansey support this thing can actually be a real threat in OU. I do admit that special attacks dent him, which is why dusclops can prove better.

9.) Rotom-W
Levitate, it can probably take one rock slide, and trick. After you trick it choice specs/scarf, this thing is really useless as it has to switch everywhere. Will--O-Wisp on the switch (its natural special bulk can prove usefull) and work your way around Excadrill).

10.) Conkeldur
It can take one earthquake, and hit hard with a Drain Punch, gain most hp back, and proceed to Machh Punch. Play around sand team, and the rest is history.

11.) Infernape
SashApe can close combat and mach punch FTW. Matter of playing around his team. It works well when your opponent doesn't predict the sash and kill.

12.) Azumaril
Banded Aqua jet, it can OHKO or 2HKO Excadrill. The Problem: Its obvious. Takes a lot of skill to use this one, but it can work.

13.) Swampert
It can take any hit, and counter with scald/surf/waterfall/earthquake. No reason this isn't a good counter against Exca

14.) Suicune
Suicune should be able to take Earthquake (non-life orb, not sure don't have a damage calc) Scald/Surf/Hydro Pump

15.) Whismicott
Cotton Guard Whismicott? 3-4HKO on air balloon Excadrill. 2-3HKO LO Adamant Excadrill. 5HKO with +6 vs regular excadrill. So, this thing can do a pretty good job leech seeding it. It can stall it out, ive seen momento sets, which can work when hes the last pokemon

I think there are a few more, can't think of atm. Oh yeah, sash Alakazam.
 

Shurtugal

The Enterpriser.
is a Tiering Contributor
EDIT:
If excadrill doesn't run X-Scissor, Latios/Celebi/Shaymin/Tangelegrowth, and more pokes that are grass types/psychic types can hit Excadrill hard. Even Pokemon like Umbreon can be a viable counter. X-Scissor means that Rotom -W can check it. So I add him back to the list, and rapid spin makes everything that return and x-scissor check a threat (which are a lot). So, there are a lot of checks, which is why he shouldn't be banned.

Deoxys-S

<he never lives longer than two turns giving its sashed, and since it sets up hazards, rapid spin makes him a waste of a team slot>

Jirachi

<Sand so common, EQ kills it. EQ very common attack, sun and fire have a field day with it. Scarfers like Terrakion can OHKO it>

Garchomp/Blaziken/Manaphy

<OH GOD, please keep them banned. As much as I love Garchomp, there all deadly in weather. They will kill us all, and they do well in Ubers so that tells you something...>

Latios

<This thing is frail, even if it can live one Ice Beam. Specs Draco Meteor is strong, but it can certainly be countered. Its like saying Blissey can take a Draco Metor specs from Latios, it should be banned. Really?


I just wanted to go over some of the nominated Pokemon is all. Jirachi just made me go -__-. People need to learn how to deal with threats in OU. Its also possible to counter everything in OU, as I have seen a few teams that can!
 

New World Order

Licks Toads
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
From my experience, Gliscor and Conkeldurr OHKO Excadrill (2HKO in Gliscor's case if Excadrill has a balloon). As well, you can add Bronzong to that list of checks. Standard Bronzong can't be 2HKOd by any of Excadrill's moves except +2 LO X-Scissors, and can 2HKO in return, breaking the balloon with Gyro Ball if necessary. As well, there's the option of running max physical bulk on Bronzong to turn Bronzong into a hard counter to Excadrill, and also lets Bronzong take on DD dragons. Although you may miss Bronzong's ability to check the Latii twins, there's other options out there for those two like Ttar and Scizor.

Other pokemon out there can check Excadrill depending on the coverage move. Celebi can do it if its Return, for example.

Another important thing is that the turn Excadrill rapid spins is usually the turn it dies. A lot of people are willing to sacrifice their hazards to bring down Excadrill once they know its a rapid spin variant.
 

Honus

magna carta
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Dusknoir is pretty awful, and Conkeldurr and Infernapes are checks at best, CG Whimsicott seems pretty situational as well.
 
The problem with Excadrill is not that it's uncheckable, but the fact that, barring the recent introduction of Magic Guard Alakazam, none of the reliable checks fit on a Hyper-Offensive style team. The fact that nothing, not even a scarfer, can outspeed it and Excadrill can easily OHKO any of the fast, frail 'mons that are standard for heavy offense. Its existence destroys the viability of an entire playstyle.
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
The only real exca counters are scor and skarm. Rotom-w is a great check, and conk is an alright one. That's about it.

Oh, and bronzong.
 
Excadrill has a lot of counters, checks, which is why he remains in OU. Let me list them all.

1.) (Politoed/Ninetials) Ninetails is 2HKO'ed by LO Excadrill's earthquake IF Ninetials holds the Shuca Berry. In all honesty, a lot of things use earthquake on Tails, and when the suns up it should outspeed it anyways, and you can proceed to Will-O-Wisp

2.) Hitmontop should be able to take a hit, especially if you pull off an Intimidate. Close Combat, Mach Punch? Sure he can switch out, but you can't ban a Pokemon off other Pokemon teamed with it. Its your job as the trainer to play around his team and take out Excadrill.

3.) Gliscor
Lets see, rock slide/x-scisspr/rapid spin will not do a thing. Excadrill will probably try to pull of a SD, so just play offensive with EQ. It should be like between a 2HKO. I haven't done the calculations, but I played enough around Excadrill to know a range.

4.) Dusclops
This thing is never mentioned. It does way better than sablye, as it can probably take more than 2 hits and he can fire off Will-O-Wisp and cripple Excadrill. Pain Split? Brick Break? NIght Shade? This thing can play around Excadrill, and since hes "always switching" he can't keep the SD boost.

5.) Skarmory
Honestly, it can't get that many flinches everytime. It can abuse roost and make anything Excadrill throws useless. Set up spikes, use roost, brave bird balloon (if any), whirlwind spike spam.


6.) Dusknoir
No need to explain, bigger version of Dusclops with a few defense drops, gains of leftovers, and bigger power boost for Brick Break.

7.) Donphan
Donphan can usually take a hit, fire an Earthquake, and even fire Ice Shard before death.

8.) Sablye
He can fire Will-O-Wisp on any physical sweeper. With some blissey/chansey support this thing can actually be a real threat in OU. I do admit that special attacks dent him, which is why dusclops can prove better.

9.) Rotom-W
Levitate, it can probably take one rock slide, and trick. After you trick it choice specs/scarf, this thing is really useless as it has to switch everywhere. Will--O-Wisp on the switch (its natural special bulk can prove usefull) and work your way around Excadrill).

10.) Conkeldur
It can take one earthquake, and hit hard with a Drain Punch, gain most hp back, and proceed to Machh Punch. Play around sand team, and the rest is history.

11.) Infernape
SashApe can close combat and mach punch FTW. Matter of playing around his team. It works well when your opponent doesn't predict the sash and kill.

12.) Azumaril
Banded Aqua jet, it can OHKO or 2HKO Excadrill. The Problem: Its obvious. Takes a lot of skill to use this one, but it can work.

13.) Swampert
It can take any hit, and counter with scald/surf/waterfall/earthquake. No reason this isn't a good counter against Exca

14.) Suicune
Suicune should be able to take Earthquake (non-life orb, not sure don't have a damage calc) Scald/Surf/Hydro Pump

15.) Whismicott
Cotton Guard Whismicott? 3-4HKO on air balloon Excadrill. 2-3HKO LO Adamant Excadrill. 5HKO with +6 vs regular excadrill. So, this thing can do a pretty good job leech seeding it. It can stall it out, ive seen momento sets, which can work when hes the last pokemon

I think there are a few more, can't think of atm. Oh yeah, sash Alakazam.
1: Ninetails/Politoad: Excadrill switches out, Tyranitar comes back in. Your weather inducers can't take a 2nd hit later.

2: Hitmontop loses. End of.

3: Why do you think Gliscor is #4 on the ladder?

4: Dusclops kinda sucks, and it has to take two Earthquakes, so will be completely crippled.

5: Skarmory is only a check. It takes an attack as it switches in [Good Excadrills will not EQ while Gliscor/Skarm are around], it then takes another as it Whirlwinds.

If Skarm brings in something it can't Roost on, gg, because it won't get a second chance. Flinchax is a possibility to.

6: 2HKO'ed on the switch

7: 2HKO'ed, and, Air Baloon?

8: Sableye can't switch in, and Will-O can miss, so you shouldn't rely on it.

9: Rotom-W loses to Return, and X-Sissor and Rock Slide do numbers on it too. Hydro Pump could also miss.

10: Conkel cannot switch in, and Mach Punch can't OHKO without a Band/Guts boost.

11: Sand is up, so how does Sashape survive to Mach Punch? Also, hazards. Also, how does he switch in?

12: Can't really switch, in, is blatently obvious about what it will do, so you switch out.

13: Can take any hit. Once. It cannot switch in. If it tries to revenge, Excadrill switchs out

14: Can't switch in.

15: When are you getting to set up two Cotton Guards? Also X-Scissor, and what can you do back?

So, basically, those 'checks' and 'counters' you described... 90% of them can't switch in, and all but one is a shaky check at best. [Gliscor] Some of them aren't checks at all, such as Dusknoir. Also, none of them stop Excadrill going away, and coming back in later once the obstical has switched out. Oh look, that's a 2nd mon you've had to sac! Then a 3rd!
 
Ok, believe it or not, having Excadrill in OU is actually really good for hyper offense. It severely limits the number of scarfers in OU to pretty much Politoed, Rotom, Terrakion, and Landorus, only the latter two of which are dangerous to hyper offense. It is also pretty easy to beat under screens since it can't OHKO anything not weak to EQ and you also have stuff like Reuniclus, balloon Lucario / Terrakion. Reun is excellent for special HO, and Terrakion for physical. Lucario for both. Either way, Excadrill "destroying" HO doesn't make it broken.

I do think Excadrill is broken, but that is besides the point. Gliscor is a really bad counter as if balloon exca gets to 4+ Gliscor will need to be at like 85% to win, not to mention 30% flinch (garchomp 20%) Skarm loses 1v1 and to flinch. The WoWers honestly suck. 25% chance of missing, 30% chance of getting flinched, and exca can also just SD again KO three things before dying. Exca has no solid counters, only checks.
 
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