Unofficial Glossary

[GatoDelFuego]

On the check/counter argument, spikes ferrothorn may not really have any counters, but then by the same merit SR terrakion has no counters outside of xatu either. Restricting ferrothorn's "job" to just laying spikes is ridiculous, ferrothorn's job is to sponge hits from the opponent and maintain defensive pressure. By this reasoning, heatran counters ferrothorn, because it prevents ferrothorn fom walling it. It's a tricky definition, but if you look at what a pokemon's job actually is you can find some more counters for it.

 

[MMII]

SR Terrakion is a good example as you can say it is absolutely counter-less (Xatu and Espy aren't like Stone Edge). I'm thinking this whole check/counter dilemma came from the Deoxys-D suspect testing. I don't think that check/counter can be used to describe support Pokemon concerning their supporting roles as support poses a different, indirect threat and will lead to confusion if we lump it with direct threats posed by stuff like CB Terrakion. Perhaps a new term can be forged to describe handling support but til then I'm not going to mention it in check/counter section.

 

[Soul Fly]

but then by the same merit SR terrakion has no counters outside of xatu either.

:P kidding

On a serious note, you guys really took my Xatu v/s Ferrothorn example overboard, I was just defining an ideal scenario.
A check is something which can situationally stop the pokemon on it's track. For example. Heatran is a 'check' to any volcarona (check because volcarona can choose to carry HP Ground instead of the more common HP rock), while a counter is something that guarantees the pokemon in question to beat a hasty retreat. Yes on a degree Heatran is a 'counter' to Ferrothorn.

As for Gato's argument. CB scizor is a 100% counter to any Dancing Terrakion. Come in on either the predicted boost or a revenge. Bullet punch always does ~105%+ damage , and to boot is faster under any and all circumstances, so Terrakion here is in a checkmate.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

I'd like to see pivots on here. Perhaps define them as pokemon designed to switch in and out repeatedly to win momentum of the match. Defensive pivots are supposed to switch in and slow down the opponent's momentum and support the team, where offensive pivots switch in to create offensive momentum for the user's team.

I know there was a huge debate about this in the Landorus-T analysis, but I would consider it a defensive pivot; switching in to sponge attacks and slow down the opponent. What do you guys consider the different types of pivots?

 

[MMII]

@Soul Fly: He was talking about SR Terrakion. There isn't a Pokemon in the game that can stop him from setting up SR without fail. (all the Magic Bouncers die after trying to switch-in) I just don't think providing support should be considered a threat in the same way as something that can actual sweep a team itself.

@Gato: I had pivots but I found it was in the article that is already on-site so I took it down. However, if you think the other definition is out of date I can always include it in this glossary as a update.

Edit: Don't worry Gato, I edited that part in once yee told me about the onsite article so if you read the thread before then you wouldn't have been able to notice.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

:evan:

I've just realized that this thread is an update that builds off that article, I thought you were completely rewriting the definitions. The old definition of pivot works just fine.

 

[Soul Fly]

@Melee, oh sorry I read that as SD. But say I lead with Scizor (lead terrak is rather easy to spot IMHO), bullet punch still does it's job.

I know there was a huge debate about this in the Landorus-T analysis, but I would consider it a defensive pivot; switching in to sponge attacks and slow down the opponent. What do you guys consider the different types of pivots?

Anything which can regain/steal momentum by the virtue of it's typing and ability upon switching is what I ideally consider to be a pivot.

Lando-T is a defensive pivot. Intimidate softens up physical sweepers plus his massive bulk makes it almost impossible to muscle past him. At least physically.

I'd consider Band/Scarf Scizor an offensive pivot. Can switch into a wide variety of attacks and threaten a ton of things between Bullet Punch/Pursuit/U-Turn/Superpower. A+ at doing it's job.


Double Switching can be considered another form of pivoting. Say you have a bad matchup. You have a Heatran on the field v/s a Mix Hydreigon in the rain. Now to swing the situation in your favour, you switch to a SpD Celebi Absorbing the Super power nicely. Now you're just baiting that Dark Pulse, and on the next turn you switch to your Justified Terrakion getting a valuable Attack boost. Now the Matchup is overwhelmingly in your favour.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

Tobes said to take "dry switching" off, but I suggest you put "hard switching" on. Iirc this is just switching out with a pokemon that has volt switch or u-turn in order to scout the opponent without either revealing your set or when it's unfavorable to use (such as if they possess a faster move that will kill you)

 

[Jukain]

DragSpam: These teams run a bunch of Dragon-type Pokemon in an effort to overwhelm the opponent.

 

[Schpoonman]

DragMag would be a better idea. It's a much more widely recognized term and there's just a little bit more strategy than "click Outrage and Draco Meteor until everything dies."

 

[Soul Fly]

DragMag would be a better idea. It's a much more widely recognized term and there's just a little bit more strategy than "click Outrage and Draco Meteor until everything dies."

Pictures are more easier.

 

[MMII]

Sorry for the inactivity, I just recently moved and no longer have a internet connection. (local bakery does though, lol)

I'm adding 4 moveslot syndrome and dragmag. (I'll get to updating the rest when I can)

 

[Zeta5]

haha I found the dragmag picture hilarious. Awesome since some people mix up these terms

 

[MMII]

Okay I updated the definitions by removing the general summary of Offense and Stall (already featured in the onsite dictionary) and replaced them with a bit more detailed explanation of the sub-styles within them. I'm not certain if some (or well namely Quick Stall) is accurate or misleading and I know that being this nitpicky is somewhat controversial so feel free to express your opinions. (as well as contribute to any definition you think is inaccurate or should be added)