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Gen V STABmons
- Thread starter EV
- Start date
- Status
Ferrothorn will be your best (competitive) bet, especially because by running Spore and Belly Drum it relies solely on Extremespeed, with Horn Leech being used to hit Rock-types while healing in the progress. That way Sawsbuck loses out on coverage that it usually carries: Naturepower (EQ) or Jump Kick. Iron Barbs can hurt the deer some more.
Sableye can try to burn Sawsbuck with priority Prankster.
One thing'll be important: Hazards. Belly drum will be a really discouraging strategy if you have some rocks and spikes up. T-Spikes now got some better distribution, you better include them on your team if you fear Belly Drum E-Speed.
Unaware mons can become a counter to Belly Drummers as well especially because in that case the opponent lost 50% of his health while you dont care about his boosts. Altho Quagsire, the most popular Unaware mon, is no good against Sawsbuck.
Sap Sippers can come in on a Spore and then discourage Sawsbuck to Belly Drum because of the attack boost.
Sableye can try to burn Sawsbuck with priority Prankster.
One thing'll be important: Hazards. Belly drum will be a really discouraging strategy if you have some rocks and spikes up. T-Spikes now got some better distribution, you better include them on your team if you fear Belly Drum E-Speed.
Unaware mons can become a counter to Belly Drummers as well especially because in that case the opponent lost 50% of his health while you dont care about his boosts. Altho Quagsire, the most popular Unaware mon, is no good against Sawsbuck.
Sap Sippers can come in on a Spore and then discourage Sawsbuck to Belly Drum because of the attack boost.
ElectivireRocks
Banned deucer.
^ Keep in mind that keeping hazards off the field is going to be much easier with every single Normal type (including Scrappy users) getting Rapid Spin.
In other news, Wobbuffet gets a plethora of support options now such as Trick, Rest, Magic Coat and Trick Room.
In other news, Wobbuffet gets a plethora of support options now such as Trick, Rest, Magic Coat and Trick Room.
Umm, Swoobat likes Simple a lot more. Plus Sawsbuck will OHKO unless this is a very bulky Swoobat. It seems to me that there will be a lot of mindgames about whether it will Spore then Belly Drum, or just Belly Drum. Would it be better served by Chlorophyll or Sap Sipper, though?
EV
Banned deucer.
I added a section at the bottom of the first post about type changes during evolution and forme change. I posed a question after I saw how many Pokemon change at least 1 type during evolution/forme.
I know I said earlier that only current type factors into the STAB move additions, but should prior evolutions/formes be taken into consideration?
Possible changes:
Bellossom would get Poison moves (Gloom).
Steelix would get Rock moves (Onix).
Scizor would get Flying moves (Scyther).
Eeveelutions would get Normal moves (Eevee).
Marill/Azumarill would get Normal moves (Azurill).
Tyranitar would get Ground moves (Pupitar).
Masquerain would get Water moves (Surskit).
Ninjask and Shedinja would get Ground moves (Nincada).
Altaria would get Normal moves (Swablu).
Drapion would get Bug moves (Skorupi).
Rotom formes would get Ghost moves (Rotom). They would NOT get other forme's moves, so no Spore Rotom-W.
[Theorymoning] Would this affect the game a lot? Is Shell Smash Azumarill too dangerous (albeit we already have Belly Drum)? Or Shell Smashing Eeveelutions? Think about it.
I know I said earlier that only current type factors into the STAB move additions, but should prior evolutions/formes be taken into consideration?
Possible changes:
Bellossom would get Poison moves (Gloom).
Steelix would get Rock moves (Onix).
Scizor would get Flying moves (Scyther).
Eeveelutions would get Normal moves (Eevee).
Marill/Azumarill would get Normal moves (Azurill).
Tyranitar would get Ground moves (Pupitar).
Masquerain would get Water moves (Surskit).
Ninjask and Shedinja would get Ground moves (Nincada).
Altaria would get Normal moves (Swablu).
Drapion would get Bug moves (Skorupi).
Rotom formes would get Ghost moves (Rotom). They would NOT get other forme's moves, so no Spore Rotom-W.
[Theorymoning] Would this affect the game a lot? Is Shell Smash Azumarill too dangerous (albeit we already have Belly Drum)? Or Shell Smashing Eeveelutions? Think about it.
I was assuming an Adamant Sawsbuck, though SR would bring it into KO range of a Jolly one, too. This still begs the question of why you're using (Unaware) Swoobat in a tier full of powerful priority. Speaking of which, I wonder if we'll see Scizor dropping Bullet Punch in favour of Shift Gear and Gear Grind.
EV
Banned deucer.
Hazards are an interesting factor and I'm waffling over the effect they'll have now that so many things can set up Spikes/T-spikes (Rocks stay the same I think).
Gengar can set up T-spikes and while it can't block Rapid Spin from Scrappymons, they will still get Poisoned on entry and a Taunt can prevent Heal Bell. Gengar also beats both Magic Bouncers should they switch in with Shadow Ball. T-spikes will be important for Belly Drummers. (Immunity Belly Drum E-Speed Snorlax anyone?)
I think Normal-types looking to setup with Belly Drum will want a Poison-type on their team or a Scrappy spinner. Meloetta can beat Poison-types and transform to hit Scrappymons with SE Fighting but falls hard to +6 Espeed. EDIT: Hell, Meloetta could even run Fist Plate Judgment for Normal-types (though not boosted by STAB) and not worry about transforming.
Faster Espeeders will probably decide most games. You'll want something that can outspeed Sawsbuck and KO at 1/2 health with Espeed. I'm looking at you Staraptor.
Gengar can set up T-spikes and while it can't block Rapid Spin from Scrappymons, they will still get Poisoned on entry and a Taunt can prevent Heal Bell. Gengar also beats both Magic Bouncers should they switch in with Shadow Ball. T-spikes will be important for Belly Drummers. (Immunity Belly Drum E-Speed Snorlax anyone?)
I think Normal-types looking to setup with Belly Drum will want a Poison-type on their team or a Scrappy spinner. Meloetta can beat Poison-types and transform to hit Scrappymons with SE Fighting but falls hard to +6 Espeed. EDIT: Hell, Meloetta could even run Fist Plate Judgment for Normal-types (though not boosted by STAB) and not worry about transforming.
Faster Espeeders will probably decide most games. You'll want something that can outspeed Sawsbuck and KO at 1/2 health with Espeed. I'm looking at you Staraptor.
But that is guaranteed ohko after rocks, provided rocks are up swoobat can't do anything.
Ditto can get 428 speed with Quick Powder which makes it able to outspeed 145 base speed mons by 1. It can then use Lovely Kiss and Baton Pass a Shell Smash boost or something.
So wait, would Heal Bell + Wish be compatible together on Chansey/Blissey now?
Yes. It's compatible together.
EV
Banned deucer.
Here's what we've been talking about in the lab:
No Guard @ Leftovers/Focus Sash
~Gravity
~Spikes/Shadow Sneak
~Rock Polish
~Fissure
Takes a lot of setup, but if it pulls it off, it's bound to kill some stuff. Gravity ensures Fissure hits Flying-types and that Spikes damages them on the switch, plus Spikes break Sturdy. Rock Polish to outspeed stuff and then start Fissuring. Shadow Sneak can be used against Magic Guard sash (Alakazam) but might not be as useful. It's immune to Espeed/Mach Punch, too.
Adaptability @ Life Orb/Expert Belt/BlackGlasses/Lefties?
~Pursuit
~Sucker Punch
~Aqua Jet
~Substitute
Tired of Psychics and Ghosts ruining all your fun? Pursuit+Sucker Punch trap 'em! Substitute eases prediction. Aqua Jet for STAB. It's frail, but hits hard.
Sap Sipper/Scrappy @ Leftovers
~Espeed
~Rapid Spin
~Milk Drink
~Heal Bell/EQ
Switch it in as Sawsbuck Belly Drums and Espeed next turn. Sap Sipper for predicted Spores, Scrappy for Spin.
Rain Dish @ Leftovers
~Water Spout
~Rapid Spin
~Surf/Sludge Wave
~Protect
Offensive Tenta spinner. It can still do a good job at spinning but can hit hard with Rain-boosted Water Spout and gain back health due to Rain Dish+Lefties, keeping Water Spout relatively strong. Surf as needed. Protect to get back health for more Water Spouts.
Pressure @ Life Orb/Leftovers
~Hone Claws/Swords Dance
~Dark Void
~Icicle Crash
~Crunch/Pursuit
Loses lots of coverage and revenge kill prowess to function as a sleep inducer and sweeper with really good Speed and good Attack.
No Guard @ Leftovers/Focus Sash
~Gravity
~Spikes/Shadow Sneak
~Rock Polish
~Fissure
Takes a lot of setup, but if it pulls it off, it's bound to kill some stuff. Gravity ensures Fissure hits Flying-types and that Spikes damages them on the switch, plus Spikes break Sturdy. Rock Polish to outspeed stuff and then start Fissuring. Shadow Sneak can be used against Magic Guard sash (Alakazam) but might not be as useful. It's immune to Espeed/Mach Punch, too.
Adaptability @ Life Orb/Expert Belt/BlackGlasses/Lefties?
~Pursuit
~Sucker Punch
~Aqua Jet
~Substitute
Tired of Psychics and Ghosts ruining all your fun? Pursuit+Sucker Punch trap 'em! Substitute eases prediction. Aqua Jet for STAB. It's frail, but hits hard.
Sap Sipper/Scrappy @ Leftovers
~Espeed
~Rapid Spin
~Milk Drink
~Heal Bell/EQ
Switch it in as Sawsbuck Belly Drums and Espeed next turn. Sap Sipper for predicted Spores, Scrappy for Spin.
Rain Dish @ Leftovers
~Water Spout
~Rapid Spin
~Surf/Sludge Wave
~Protect
Offensive Tenta spinner. It can still do a good job at spinning but can hit hard with Rain-boosted Water Spout and gain back health due to Rain Dish+Lefties, keeping Water Spout relatively strong. Surf as needed. Protect to get back health for more Water Spouts.
Pressure @ Life Orb/Leftovers
~Hone Claws/Swords Dance
~Dark Void
~Icicle Crash
~Crunch/Pursuit
Loses lots of coverage and revenge kill prowess to function as a sleep inducer and sweeper with really good Speed and good Attack.
Well if you also consider pre-evos STAB then Flareon finally might see some use with Extremespeed to add to it's movepool. It works nice with V-Create's speed drop.
The other Eeveelutions & Altaria will also appreciate all normal moves to be implemented like Shell Smash.
Azumarill just got scarier with ESpeed added to it's movepool.
Brave Bird Scizor lol.
T-Tar would get spikes and Drapion would get Heal Order. Shedinja would also be a fun abuser of Spikes.
Rotom-Formes already were interesting, but adding ghost moves in the mix will make things even spicier.
Those are the most notable changes I see if we were to implement pre-evo STABs as the other pokes are downright bad or get nothing special.
BTW: There's still one spin blocker that doesnt care about Scrappy: Shedinja, hahaha.
The other Eeveelutions & Altaria will also appreciate all normal moves to be implemented like Shell Smash.
Azumarill just got scarier with ESpeed added to it's movepool.
Brave Bird Scizor lol.
T-Tar would get spikes and Drapion would get Heal Order. Shedinja would also be a fun abuser of Spikes.
Rotom-Formes already were interesting, but adding ghost moves in the mix will make things even spicier.
Those are the most notable changes I see if we were to implement pre-evo STABs as the other pokes are downright bad or get nothing special.
BTW: There's still one spin blocker that doesnt care about Scrappy: Shedinja, hahaha.
Unaware pokemon are a good counter to boosting threats. Also, a counter for Sawsbuck would be Gengar, as it laughs at all the moves Sawsbuck can use against it. I'm eager to play this metagame. If anyone wants to play this with me, vm me and we can arrange a time and place.
Also, Meloetta seems like an amazing choice for SmashPass. It has decent bulk and speed, and can even sweep on its own with Shell Smash.
And, no one has noticed but....
FLAREON GETS FLARE BLITZ NOW WOOOH!!!
Also, Meloetta seems like an amazing choice for SmashPass. It has decent bulk and speed, and can even sweep on its own with Shell Smash.
And, no one has noticed but....
FLAREON GETS FLARE BLITZ NOW WOOOH!!!
I think it's compatible already, as in outside of the metagame?
I think Aromatherapy is now compatible which outclasses Heal Bell bc of Soundproof. Heal Bell was already compatible.
No, both were already compatible, it's just that aromatherapy is used over heal bell for those random soundproof pokemon.
Gengar resists all of Sawsbucks viable moves, but can't survive a boosted Horn Leech. Prankster Pokemon can T-Wave Sawsbuck, and Whimsicott can Spore it, and Sableye can Dark Void it. (Whimsicott can't spore Sap Sipper Sawsbuck, but we are talking about Chlorophyll Sawsbuck, so yeah...) You can also change the weather to slow Sawbuck down. n. You can even pull off some Encore antics, which is much less reliable though. Still, Sawsbuck is a huge threat to prepare for.
Sableye is the only only Prankster mon that wont be OHKO'd before it can move, though. Chlorophyll's speed boost is really, really nice, but Sap Sipper is equally useful and doesn't require lolNinetales.
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