Then just ban Blazikenite like Soul Dew and Gengarite, as someone mentioned before.Mega Blaziken has Speed Boost no matter what. So even if you have a Blaze Blaziken, you can still Mega Evolve to get Speed Boost along with better stats.
Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I guess I was just confused by how on the one hand there's a lot of talk around at the moment of "wasting a precious mega slot", but on the other being pretty resigned to Baton Passing out Mega Blaze on any switch in it can't STAB seemed a little contradictory.Well, in the first place Fire and Fighting isn't a bad offensive type combo. Only a handful of Pokemon resist them both, so Blaziken can do plenty with just its STABs. Which, being High Jump Kick and Flare Blitz, aren't exactly lacking in power. So you can hit things with Sword Dance boosted STABS, and then just Baton Pass out when something you can't smash with those comes in to continue the sweep.
That's why Azumarill and Talonflame are probably the biggest threats to Blaziken, as they not only resist both of its STABs, but can just ignore its Speed Boost and KO with Super Effective priority, so there's no Baton Passing out.
Fire resists Fairy, not the other way around.Any Fairy can resist both STABs, and if it's running Baton Pass, that's all it'll have. Xerneas could make a great switch-in, although of course it's up in the air what tiers it'll end up allowed in.
This is actually incorrect. You'll find that once Blaziken is boosted, Mega or not, he stops caring about any non-defensive resist. Dragonite, Salamence, and Gyarados all die to a boosted Hi Jump Kick after rocks, even factoring Intimidate. For example's sake, let's use Blaziken Mega vs a defensive Tentacruel: +2 252+ Atk Blaziken Hi Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 244 Def Tentacruel: 282-333 (77.68 - 91.73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Bear in mind that Blaziken with Life Orb does more damage.Thing is... running Baton Pass + SD is going to cut into your coverage attacks big time and you're left with either 1 STAB and 1 coverage attack or 2 STAB and 0 coverage - meaning that you're more likely going to have to Baton Pass pretty much ANY switch in that your opponent throws at you.
Considering that MegaBlaziken has basically... nothing over his regular form, that's not how things would work in this case.Then just ban Blazikenite like Soul Dew and Gengarite, as someone mentioned before.
252+ Mega Blaziken's Attack stat: 460Considering that MegaBlaziken has basically... nothing over his regular form, that's not how things would work in this case.
Regular Blaziken tends to run Jolly, which Adamant Mega Blaziken can beat in power, speed, and bulk, all without LO recoil. So it's definitely a step up.252+ Mega Blaziken's Attack stat: 460
252+ Life Orb Blaziken's Attack stat: 483.6
Mega Blaziken is 4.88% physically weaker than LO Blaziken (If both are Adamant) while being faster. You lose a very low amount of damage but you get the ability to outspeed many pokémon at +1 that standard Blaziken needed +2 to. It loses some guaranteed 2HKOes such as Hi Jump Kick on some Calm Mind Arceus formes or Flare Blitz on Double Dance Landorus-T (Just an example), but hazards still make them guaranteed
-1 252 Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 80 HP / 8 Def Landorus-T: 48.96 - 57.81%
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 80 HP / 8 Def Landorus-T: 51.62 - 61.06%
252 Atk Mega Blaziken Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Water: 47.52 - 56.3%
252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Water: 50.45 - 59.68%
It hits for about 3% less damage
Of course, Mega Blaziken uses your Mega slot, but it's a good choice if you have nothing else to Mega in your team
regular blaze is running adamant. Period. Jolly is pretty lulzyRegular Blaziken tends to run Jolly, which Adamant Mega Blaziken can beat in power, speed, and bulk, all without LO recoil. So it's definitely a step up.
But the question is, how big of a step? Remember that this is about the idea of banning Blazikenite. Although Mega Blaziken is a solid improvement for teams that don't want any other Mega, it's hard to imagine a scenario where Mega Blaziken would be broken but regular Blaziken would not.
Blaziken is a dangerous physical sweeper that can Baton Pass its boosts in the event that a counter comes in, not a dedicated Baton Passer.the main use for Blaziken will be Batton passer,
Blaziken is neutral to Fairy.with his new weakness to Fary type is more dangerouse to try other things,
There are few sweepers on Blaziken's level, especially Mega Blaziken's. Very little has that combination of powerful STABs, Swords Dance, Speed Boost (at +2, pretty much nothing outspeeds you), and in Mega Blaziken's case, raw power without having to even use a Life Orb. Personally, I've been using Blaziken plenty on PO's OU ladder, and it sweeps pretty easily.Blaziken is not going to sweep anytime soon (there are better sweeper and Mega sweepers)
Even 252/252+ Togekiss is OHKO'd by Mega Blaziken's +2 Flare Blitz 93.75% of the time without any prior damage, so it doesn't check Blaziken at all. Azumarill does, but that's nothing new.Azumarril and Togekiss can check him easy and his weakness to EQ is big,
With an Adamant nature, you're outsped by positive base 130s and Scarf base 70s at +1, as well as Scarf Terrakion/Keldeo and everything faster at +2. You might prefer Adamant for the power, but Jolly is hardly "lulzy."regular blaze is running adamant. Period. Jolly is pretty lulzy
Just thought I'd respond, but if we did this for everything then we'd start getting to major complex bannings which would defeat the purpose of not trying to complex ban. Sure you could allow Blaziken (assuming it won't be banned in this case) with Blaze in OU, while the SB varient runs in Ubers, but then you'd need two analysis. Then you'd have to take certain BL/UU/RU Pokemon and put both abilities to test to see if it fits directly in that tier vs. say any other tier. In the end although it sounds reasonable, it'd be more confusing to allow such a thing, than to just ban it and prevent complex bannings.Then just ban Blazikenite like Soul Dew and Gengarite, as someone mentioned before.
Actually, a ban on the Blazikenite/Gengarite/etc. would be a simple ban on a single item, similar to the Soul Dew. If Mega Blaziken turns out to be a problem and regular Blaziken is not, then we could simply ban the Blazikenite without any worry of complex bans. Not that this would be the case for Blaziken (regular Blaziken is about as powerful as Mega Blaziken), but Gengar might be a good example of something where we might ban the Mega form by banning its Mega Stone while not banning the normal Pokemon.Just thought I'd respond, but if we did this for everything then we'd start getting to major complex bannings which would defeat the purpose of not trying to complex ban.
1. sorry i don't see how, i think the most logical thing will be run a better sweeper (i'm not saying he can't do some sweep, tecnically the mayority SD user can)Blaziken is a dangerous physical sweeper that can Baton Pass its boosts in the event that a counter comes in, not a dedicated Baton Passer.
Blaziken is neutral to Fairy.
There are few sweepers on Blaziken's level, especially Mega Blaziken's. Very little has that combination of powerful STABs, Swords Dance, Speed Boost (at +2, pretty much nothing outspeeds you), and in Mega Blaziken's case, raw power without having to even use a Life Orb. Personally, I've been using Blaziken plenty on PO's OU ladder, and it sweeps pretty easily.
Even 252/252+ Togekiss is OHKO'd by Mega Blaziken's +2 Flare Blitz 93.75% of the time without any prior damage, so it doesn't check Blaziken at all. Azumarill does, but that's nothing new.
Literally the only things that regular Blaziken does better than Mega Blaziken are the mixed sets and maybe some kind of dedicated Baton Pass set if you wanted to abuse Leftovers.
With an Adamant nature, you're outsped by positive base 130s and Scarf base 70s at +1, as well as Scarf Terrakion/Keldeo and everything faster at +2. You might prefer Adamant for the power, but Jolly is hardly "lulzy."
Oh, Adamant is generally better, I'm not denying that. But acting like Jolly is laughable when there are legitimate reasons to use it is a real stretch.
Also, I'd just like to comment that just because Scarf Keldeo and Terrakion aren't common at the moment doesn't mean they'll always be uncommon. The metagame is only a couple of weeks old, and it'll probably be a while before it actually settles. From what I've seen on PO and PS!, this metagame still has that new car smell where everyone is trying out new stuff and updated old stuff. Once we get official usage stats in the next couple of days, we'll be able to make a better judgement of which common speed tiers you'll want to outspeed, and that will probably change as the metagame settles over the next couple of months.
Actually, a ban on the Blazikenite/Gengarite/etc. would be a simple ban on a single item, similar to the Soul Dew. If Mega Blaziken turns out to be a problem and regular Blaziken is not, then we could simply ban the Blazikenite without any worry of complex bans. Not that this would be the case for Blaziken (regular Blaziken is about as powerful as Mega Blaziken), but Gengar might be a good example of something where we might ban the Mega form by banning its Mega Stone while not banning the normal Pokemon.
But what better sweepers? Nothing else can passively boost its speed, boost its power with Swords Dance, 2HKO/OHKO pretty much everything after Stealth Rock with its STABs alone, and then Baton Pass its boosts when the going gets tough. There might be a few more consistent sweepers by virtue of their better defensive typing and/or bulk, but I can't think of one that has that much raw power and the ability to outspeed everything.1. sorry i don't see how, i think the most logical thing will be run a better sweeper (i'm not saying he can't do some sweep, tecnically the mayority SD user can)
Well, Togekiss isn't really threatening at all since it'll rarely survive a +2 Flare Blitz. It's true that Blaziken has weaknesses, but all sweepers have weaknesses. It's a lot harder to actually abuse those weaknesses when Blaziken OHKOs so many Pokemon at +2 after Stealth Rock and outspeeds pretty much everything bar priority after one or two Speed Boosts.2. I know, but weak to Water and weak to Flying (Azumarril and Togekiss)
Oh, then I agree with that. I just want to make it clear that if the Mega form is a problem and the regular form is not, banning the Mega Stone would be a good course of action.I wasn't meaning that. I'm meaning if Blaziken is banned again like last gen (without regarding Blazikenite.) You wouldn't seperate tier ban a Pokemon based solely off an Ability which so far remains to be true. (Ie Why Blaziken Blaze wasn't unbanned last gen)
But what better sweepers? Nothing else can passively boost its speed, boost its power with Swords Dance, 2HKO/OHKO pretty much everything after Stealth Rock with its STABs alone, and then Baton Pass its boosts when the going gets tough. There might be a few more consistent sweepers by virtue of their better defensive typing and/or bulk, but I can't think of one that has that much raw power and the ability to outspeed everything.
Well, Togekiss isn't really threatening at all since it'll rarely survive a +2 Flare Blitz. It's true that Blaziken has weaknesses, but all sweepers have weaknesses. It's a lot harder to actually abuse those weaknesses when Blaziken OHKOs so many Pokemon at +2 after Stealth Rock and outspeeds pretty much everything bar priority after one or two Speed Boosts.
Oh, then I agree with that. I just want to make it clear that if the Mega form is a problem and the regular form is not, banning the Mega Stone would be a good course of action.
I'm lost here, are we talking about mega blaziken or regular? well, Mega lucario and Mega garchomp are better options for a full sweep if you recive a batton pass with theme is done, blaziken has a problem for sweep and is that no matter how quick it is and if he has speed boost on him, the only priority move that handles well is bullet punch, other like aqua jet and brave bird hurts him, garchomp does handle this much better and is not week to EQ, Lucario is weak to EQ but handle prioritys much better, and also don't think only togekiss, he can handle him but not as good has you thinkBut what better sweepers? Nothing else can passively boost its speed, boost its power with Swords Dance, 2HKO/OHKO pretty much everything after Stealth Rock with its STABs alone, and then Baton Pass its boosts when the going gets tough. There might be a few more consistent sweepers by virtue of their better defensive typing and/or bulk, but I can't think of one that has that much raw power and the ability to outspeed everything.
Well, Togekiss isn't really threatening at all since it'll rarely survive a +2 Flare Blitz. It's true that Blaziken has weaknesses, but all sweepers have weaknesses. It's a lot harder to actually abuse those weaknesses when Blaziken OHKOs so many Pokemon at +2 after Stealth Rock and outspeeds pretty much everything bar priority after one or two Speed Boosts.
Oh, then I agree with that. I just want to make it clear that if the Mega form is a problem and the regular form is not, banning the Mega Stone would be a good course of action.