Steel doesn't resist dark.
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Pokémon Greninja
- Thread starter Hypercut
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To be totally honest, no. Only use hp fire, or maybe hp electric.
Dang....well time to breed more froakies
Lol sorry man.
Right, that changed this gen. The point stands that Dark Pulse in no way helps against steel types, as the poster implied.
HP Fire master race.
Sorry meant U-Turn. I meant that U-Turn isn't doing as much damage to certain mons without more investment in Attack. It's taking the room of a potential coverage move.
Lol a billion people responded to that.
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Which nature would be better modest or timid (asking a lot of questions cause I want to try competitive but I don't have too much experience)?
Hasty. So neither. Between the two Timid, if you don't plan on utilizing U-turn.
Tentacool onto omanite onto froakie. Although do note that greninja also learns spikes via level up.
Greninja learns Spike at level 28, so you can relearn it via the Move Relearner.
Thanks you guys
I know I already stated above that I meant U-Turn. What I was trying to say was that if you really want to hit things like Starmie, then you might as well use Dark Pulse which is also NEUTRAL on Steel-types. I know the whole "Oh U-Turn also gives momentum blah blah blah" thing, but any good player isn't switching Latios or Starmie into Greninja, so might as well forget about momentum and KOing something weak to Bug. If someone does bring in Starmie, then if you kill it with U-Turn, then you choose what Pokemon to bring in first, which gives the opponent a better matchup. I also get how HP Fire is better for Steel-Types, but I'm just saying that U-Turn isn't doing a whole lot of damage without more Attack EVs; however, it is still great for momentum. Might as well run it, but it is potentially taking the place of a coverage move, and switching out has priority if the opponent isn't switching out and when the opponent swithes a Pokemon is the perfect time for U-Turn.
No problem glad to help.
edit: Protean can be found on Friend Safari Greninjas, in case this hasn't been mentioned in other pages. (I need to read em, hehe)
edit2: Well, my one-post count should indicate that I'm pretty new here. Triple battles seem to be completely overlooked by this community. I apologize if this post is a waste of space, heh.
I've been focusing on rating Triple Battles (meaning this'll be so-so in doubles, dame da in singles, obviously), and have a rather odd setup that's been pretty useful. I thought I'd share. :)
Setup Aide / Swiss Army Knife
Greninja@ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mat Block
- U-Turn
- Rock Slide
- Dig
Set description:
This Greninja gets swapped in and out quite a bit, but its primary purpose is being a turn 1 setup aide. The 84 speed may seem strange at first, but I calculated it to just barely outspeed timid scarfed Heat Wave users in a Sunny Day fire team. (Ninetales, Charizard, Growlithe) Furthermore, being at -1 base speed of a Noivern and -4 of a Talonflame (both are crazy popular), there's no chance of it ever outspeeding a scarfed timid one, so it seemed sensible to give it a little more survivability with the HP. In any case, teams that need one round of setup or even just may need to keep the heat off for a turn as it derails the opponent's setup will benefit greatly from this Greninja's nearly unstoppable Mat Block. Its Protean ability obviously gives it STAB on everything, and the abilities I've chosen are situational. U-Turn is an obvious choice since it's scarfed, but I also personally picked it because it filled a hole in my team's type coverage. Rock Slide seems to get used the most as Flying is still quite popular and that 30% flinch chance is almost a forgone conclusion when it hits all targets in a triple battle. Dig was a personal choice due to my team already having excessive water and ice coverage, but it also gives my Greninja immunity to Electric. It has turned the tide a couple times for me, but it's VERY situational. Being scarfed, it's most likely only a Trick Room team will be able to counter it with Earthquake the first time. Second time it's as good as dead, as I'm probably down to 3 mons by then. Most people will probably just go with some water/ice move as their fourth.
Aside from its round 1 purpose, which moves I use are very situational. On scarfed attack teams I'll usually get two to three Mat Blocks in before running down to 3 mons due to one of my mons having an Eject Button. Tailwind teams won't be able to outspeed me that first round, but I'll usually keep Greninja out of harms way until the tailwind peters out due to its vulnerability. Aside from that...I call it a swiss army knife for a reason: whatever type it needs to be near the end of the match, it will be that type, and hopefully be able to clean things up.
Checks & Counters:
Entry hazard teams will diminish this Greninja's usefulness, as will Trick Room teams. However, if your team can sufficiently stall, it has a wide variety of uses once the Trick Room runs out. (including a second Mat Block if you still have 4 mons alive and no serious priority threats) It's unlikely to get knocked out in the first round by priority moves, since it's intended to be positioned on the side. Though Mach Punch is a definite threat, I haven't seen this being tossed around much at all. Anything with >=102 base speed, scarfed, with a speed nature and max speed EV/IV is also a threat.
A scarfed STAB Brave Bird will probably OHKO it, even with the HP. Status torment teams will grief your team through the Mat Block. Fake Out is an obvious but predictable threat, but this can be re-countered trying to predict your enemy. (i.e. I'll switch to my Eject Button Hariyama who'll switch back to the Greninja same turn, use Protect on my setup target and a status move on my third...often surprises the enemy! And sometimes falls flat.)
Trappers (Mega Gengar being most common) will likely force you to abandon your setup or sacrifice this Greninja. Depends greatly on what you're setting up. :D
edit2: Well, my one-post count should indicate that I'm pretty new here. Triple battles seem to be completely overlooked by this community. I apologize if this post is a waste of space, heh.
I've been focusing on rating Triple Battles (meaning this'll be so-so in doubles, dame da in singles, obviously), and have a rather odd setup that's been pretty useful. I thought I'd share. :)
Setup Aide / Swiss Army Knife
Greninja@ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mat Block
- U-Turn
- Rock Slide
- Dig
Set description:
This Greninja gets swapped in and out quite a bit, but its primary purpose is being a turn 1 setup aide. The 84 speed may seem strange at first, but I calculated it to just barely outspeed timid scarfed Heat Wave users in a Sunny Day fire team. (Ninetales, Charizard, Growlithe) Furthermore, being at -1 base speed of a Noivern and -4 of a Talonflame (both are crazy popular), there's no chance of it ever outspeeding a scarfed timid one, so it seemed sensible to give it a little more survivability with the HP. In any case, teams that need one round of setup or even just may need to keep the heat off for a turn as it derails the opponent's setup will benefit greatly from this Greninja's nearly unstoppable Mat Block. Its Protean ability obviously gives it STAB on everything, and the abilities I've chosen are situational. U-Turn is an obvious choice since it's scarfed, but I also personally picked it because it filled a hole in my team's type coverage. Rock Slide seems to get used the most as Flying is still quite popular and that 30% flinch chance is almost a forgone conclusion when it hits all targets in a triple battle. Dig was a personal choice due to my team already having excessive water and ice coverage, but it also gives my Greninja immunity to Electric. It has turned the tide a couple times for me, but it's VERY situational. Being scarfed, it's most likely only a Trick Room team will be able to counter it with Earthquake the first time. Second time it's as good as dead, as I'm probably down to 3 mons by then. Most people will probably just go with some water/ice move as their fourth.
Aside from its round 1 purpose, which moves I use are very situational. On scarfed attack teams I'll usually get two to three Mat Blocks in before running down to 3 mons due to one of my mons having an Eject Button. Tailwind teams won't be able to outspeed me that first round, but I'll usually keep Greninja out of harms way until the tailwind peters out due to its vulnerability. Aside from that...I call it a swiss army knife for a reason: whatever type it needs to be near the end of the match, it will be that type, and hopefully be able to clean things up.
Checks & Counters:
Entry hazard teams will diminish this Greninja's usefulness, as will Trick Room teams. However, if your team can sufficiently stall, it has a wide variety of uses once the Trick Room runs out. (including a second Mat Block if you still have 4 mons alive and no serious priority threats) It's unlikely to get knocked out in the first round by priority moves, since it's intended to be positioned on the side. Though Mach Punch is a definite threat, I haven't seen this being tossed around much at all. Anything with >=102 base speed, scarfed, with a speed nature and max speed EV/IV is also a threat.
A scarfed STAB Brave Bird will probably OHKO it, even with the HP. Status torment teams will grief your team through the Mat Block. Fake Out is an obvious but predictable threat, but this can be re-countered trying to predict your enemy. (i.e. I'll switch to my Eject Button Hariyama who'll switch back to the Greninja same turn, use Protect on my setup target and a status move on my third...often surprises the enemy! And sometimes falls flat.)
Trappers (Mega Gengar being most common) will likely force you to abandon your setup or sacrifice this Greninja. Depends greatly on what you're setting up. :D
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Which is why I don't understand all these max speed, max SpAtk sets. Greninja only needs 244 Speed EV's to outspeed major threats, and only 168 SpAtk to grab essential KO's. The rest can be put into attack for harder hitting U-Turns and Shadow Sneaks.
I suppose people might run max speed Greninjas to speed-tie with other max speed Greninjas.
All hail speed creep.
Thinking about it clearly, does Greninja get anything to check itself?
Grass knot if the opposition hasn't changed their type yet
I would say power-up punch but every possible physical greninja set is TERRIBLE and should never be used, ever
You must have never tried one. It's has surprisingly good success, simply due to priority and U-turn. He has access to Rock slide, Acrobatics, Shadow sneak, Night Slash, Water Shuriken, and Waterfall. So I wouldn't say he's out right terrible especially with Assault Vest entering the scene, and special attacks being nerfed.
Physical Greninja's advantages aren't enough to outweigh those of special Greninja's. Sure Water Shuriken checks non-max Speed Talonflames, Shadow Sneak can prevent Fighting priority and Rapid Spin, and U-turn is a bit stronger with investment; however Water Shuriken is far too weak against everything else (and doesn't stop faster Talonflames), it is far better to threaten the attacker directly (which Greninja most certainly can with its wide special coverage) rather than trying to block them, and it doesn't really matter if U-turn is stronger on Greninja or not since it uses the move to land chip damage before switching out to a more appropriate response (it's not using the move like Scizor), meaning even special Greninja makes use of U-turn well. Physical Greninja's movepool isn't bad but it isn't impressive either, the only true merit being Acrobatics (which means no LO); special Greninja has Water, Dark, Psychic, Grass, and Ice coverage, coupled with HP Fire (IMO the best HP for Greninja which allows it to dispose the likes of Ferrothorn, Forretress and Scizor easily).
The Assault Vest argument is rendered moot when most of its users (Tyranitar, Heatran, Goodra) are not beaten by physical Greninja any better.
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