I too had stopped playing because of Mega Mom. Mega Mom is literally the destroyer of metas and has poisoned the OU tier. And no I am not a noob, I keep around 1800 rating constantly.
We have never banned anything for being over centralizing otherwise politoad who defined multiple play styles would've been banned in 5th gen without a doubt. So stop bringing that up please.i was trying to imply that megakanga was overcentralizing the game. Hence should be banned, as "countering" m-khan is neccesary or you lose anyway. (there isn't any counters)
Might not be that important to note, but the other guys, Pokemon Online, already have this guy banned (along with Blaziken and Mega Gengar). These idiots think the handful of people running the site are solely responsible when pretty much everyone with half a brain in this community knows it. Lol.People are starting to catch on the subject of "Smogon is too banhappy!" and "Smogon sacks because it bans my favorite pokemon!". Now I want to remind you people, that 99% of the bans(that 1% is the quickbans) is banned by US. Yes, US. Not smogon, not gf, us the community. thats what suspect testing is for. The COMMUNITY decides who we ban. The smogon simply asks the question:"Should we or should we not?" and its us who makes teh decisions. As can be seen here, smogon has chosen to ASK us if we want to ban mega kang or not. So stop blaiming smogon for the bans, if you want someone to blame, blame the people voting on suspect tests, they are the true people behind banning the pokemon.
To be fair akuma isn't really broken. His mix up game is the issue. Vortexing or a mix up that leads into itself forces you to guess your way out of a mix up with multiple outcomes. Akuma's issue is that he has low vitality (which isn't really that huge of an issue). It's not really akuma that's broken with his tools it's the mechanics and how they work together, which is why in ultra sf4 delayed wake up exist. No more guaranteed wake up= no more free vortex. All anyone has to do yo beat akuma is apply proper footsies, bait dps, and hit him with a few bnb combos and he is done.A lot of people seem to hold the fear that smogon flirts with being "banhappy" when it comes to its OU decisions. I actually broadly think this is a healthy mentality; only the bare minimum should be made illegal in the standard metagame. Sirlin's Playing to Win series helpfully posits that bans should only occur in the most dire of circumstances (ie. an element so powerful the game wasn't meant to handle it, such as Street Fighter's Akuma, or something which otherwise pulverizes most of its matchups with little trouble, such as Metaknight in Brawl (although even that one is iirc still hotly debated)). I think fundamentally uncompetitive elements like MGengar, multi-Sleep and OHKO moves easily qualify; BW2 Keldeo does not.
HOWEVER -- and this is something I've had to mentally adjust to with Pokemon -- when you're dealing with upwards of 800 threats, most of which are viably customizable and MANY of which are specifically designed to be incredibly unbalanced and powerful for flavor to begin with (broadly, legendaries), you're naturally going to have a disproportionate amount of banworthy components compared to other games. I believe MKang is far and away the most straightforwardly bannable pokemon to hit the scene in a long time. He simply plays like an Uber: steamrolling switch-ins with little effort or prediction, finding ample set-up opportunities with one of its coverage moves and any number of viable teammates, boasting limited and very weak counters who serve little utility outside of putting a shaky stop to this one incredibly powerful threat.
As a newer player (very long-time lurker, started playing Showdown in the last months of BW2 where I had a lot of fun and success with a braindead rain team), I honestly have trouble summoning the willpower to hit the ladder right now with MKang running rampant. I adore the Mega mechanics and all the other competitive-minded changes XY brought to OU, especially creative threats like Gale Wings Talonflame and the great Stance Changer and even the other extremely powerful Megas (Luc, Pinsir, Mawile, none of whom I think are close to bannable and I think add great flavor to the game). But MKang causes me pretty bad anxiety. It makes the games unfold in ways I feel they shouldn't -- forcing multiple carefully selected successive sacrifices for non-specialized/teched-out teams to take down -- a solid grounds for just getting rid of the damn thing so people can play the game again.
EDIT: Actually I'd like to add that I don't think Seismic Toss/Wish/Protect/Crunch with mad bulk has been getting enough love in this thread. I think the set is incredibly strong and cool, and while I don't believe it's nearly as unmanageable as PuP, a mon this good having multiple extremely viable roles is scary.
Pretty sure he's talking about SFII Akuma and not SFIV. SFII Akuma was banned from tournament play.To be fair akuma isn't really broken. His mix up game is the issue. Vortexing or a mix up that leads into itself forces you to guess your way out of a mix up with multiple outcomes. Akuma's issue is that he has low vitality (which isn't really that huge of an issue). It's not really akuma that's broken with his tools it's the mechanics and how they work together, which is why in ultra sf4 delayed wake up exist. No more guaranteed wake up= no more free vortex. All anyone has to do yo beat akuma is apply proper footsies, bait dps, and hit him with a few bnb combos and he is done.
Kangaskhan unlike akuma is just unstoppable under the correct conditions there is no tweaking the mechanics or adjust this or that to make it any less broken. There is currently no way to stop her from killing SOMETHING each and every time she touches the field.
To be fair SFII akuma wasn't even unblockable without knowing the code to get him. Not saying that is why he was banned, but it was one of the few things that was discussed (fighting gamer first pokemon player second).Pretty sure he's talking about SFII Akuma and not SFIV. SFII Akuma was banned from tournament play.
Mega Mom just gets too many things for free and invalidates an entire item. Other Pokemon with similar power/speed can be revenge killed by a super effective Focus Sash-er, but not Mega Mom.
Look, there are literally 66 pages that explains why what you are saying is completely wrong. Go read the thread before making posts like you just did -_-.Look. This is ridiculous. I run Kanga and he is easily one of the less bulky mega's as far as being able to take a hit. Where do we go next? Blaziken, Gengar, Kanga, then what? Gyrados? One of the greatest things in pokemon battling is strategic counter interference. Sounds to me like some people need to learn how to counter it by taking the time to build teams that counter these new threats. OU man.
No.Look. This is ridiculous. I run Kanga and he is easily one of the less bulky mega's as far as being able to take a hit. Where do we go next? Blaziken, Gengar, Kanga, then what? Gyrados? One of the greatest things in pokemon battling is strategic counter interference. Sounds to me like some people need to learn how to counter it by taking the time to build teams that counter these new threats. OU man.
I'm sorry. Did you say Mega Mom, with 105/100/100 defenses was not bulky?Look. This is ridiculous. I run Kanga and he is easily one of the less bulky mega's as far as being able to take a hit. Where do we go next? Blaziken, Gengar, Kanga, then what? Gyrados? One of the greatest things in pokemon battling is strategic counter interference. Sounds to me like some people need to learn how to counter it by taking the time to build teams that counter these new threats. OU man.
Which is exactly what this thread has been created for. If you believe Kangaskhanite should remain OU and has counters please support your reasoning with factual hard-data. This is your chance to keep Mega-Kangaskhan from going to Ubers, don't waste it. Also note that Blaziken was banned, not Blazikinite.Look. This is ridiculous. I run Kanga and he is easily one of the less bulky mega's as far as being able to take a hit. Where do we go next? Blaziken, Gengar, Kanga, then what? Gyrados? One of the greatest things in pokemon battling is strategic counter interference. Sounds to me like some people need to learn how to counter it by taking the time to build teams that counter these new threats. OU man.
Wow, just wow. I intended to stay out of this after yesterday, since the discussion was becoming exponentially worse, but this... yeah. Firstly, if Base 105 HP and 100 Defenses (better all-around than Jirachi) isn't bulky enough for a sweeper, then I don't know what is. Secondly, though, you're just assuming that "because one mega got banned, all of them will be." That's what is known as a slippery slope argument, and it's utterly false. So please, go back to trying to sign up for tutoring on a tournament thread.Look. This is ridiculous. I run Kanga and he is easily one of the less bulky mega's as far as being able to take a hit. Where do we go next? Blaziken, Gengar, Kanga, then what? Gyrados? One of the greatest things in pokemon battling is strategic counter interference. Sounds to me like some people need to learn how to counter it by taking the time to build teams that counter these new threats. OU man.
It's your job to read the thread, but...I'll say this anyways.Look. This is ridiculous. I run Kanga and he is easily one of the less bulky mega's as far as being able to take a hit. Where do we go next? Blaziken, Gengar, Kanga, then what? Gyrados? One of the greatest things in pokemon battling is strategic counter interference. Sounds to me like some people need to learn how to counter it by taking the time to build teams that counter these new threats. OU man.
There are a million reasons why I want to delete this post, but given the amount of quality responses regarding Kangamom's bulk that its gotten in the past 11 minutes, I've decided to keep it. This is a perfect example of faulty theorymon and fallacious reasoning that is almost too bad to stomach. Any more posts this bad will be deleted or infracted.Look. This is ridiculous. I run Kanga and he is easily one of the less bulky mega's as far as being able to take a hit. Where do we go next? Blaziken, Gengar, Kanga, then what? Gyrados? One of the greatest things in pokemon battling is strategic counter interference. Sounds to me like some people need to learn how to counter it by taking the time to build teams that counter these new threats. OU man.
You don't need to worry buddy, none of the other Megas are anywhere close to op, as you yourself mentioned, it's combination of bulk, speed and power, coupled with a good movepool, is unmatched by any other mega poke, none of them can do what Kanga can. Not too mention, all the other Megas actually have counters, or something holds them back from truly breaking everything, like being slow, squishy, exploitable weakness, bad movepools, not worth it over normal form (lol, megazam XD). You can rest easy ;).I am certain that MKhan will be banned. When you stack up the pros and cons of keeping her in or out, the pros way outweigh the cons. Mentioned many times before is the path of slowly removing many of the megas. I do think that this Pokemon brings something unique to the table that no other Pokemon can match, and that is her ability obviously. Blaziken and Gengar were powerfull for sure, but Blaziken would fall to priority and Gengar lost levitate, so if you were able to get an earthquake off, you could potentially kill him. Both of those Pokemon could not OHKO through sashes, sturdy, or substitutes. On top of all of that, 90% of the time or more, this Pokemon will be standing even if you get an attack in. As it has been said before many times, after you weaken her, you have to have a strong revenge killer that withstands dark type attacks.
I hope that after the banning of MKhan, people will calm down and stop quick banning Pokemon. I was saddened by the Blaziken ban, because he has checks. Azumarill and Talonflame, both of which are fairly common can check and counter Blaziken. I wasn't sad at all by the loss of Gengar, and expected that from the day I saw his ability. And Kangaskhan is too powerful to let run loose in OU. BUT! I hope it ends here, and my thought is that it will. M-Lucario, M-Gyrados, M-Pinsir, M-Mawile, and M-Medicham all have exploitable weaknesses. And none of them can OHKO through Sash/Sub/Sturdy or have the titanic bulk (with only one weakness) to the table. So, though MKhan had a short run, let us hope that as a community, we will stop banning these Megas after the loss of this OP kangaroo.
Don't we have Pokebank OU for this kinda thing where all the Pokemon are available on the simulator anyway? Since I don't play much PokeBank OU, how well does Kangaskhan do on said Pokebank OU, if it does as well as it does on non-Pokebank OU, then Pokebank would unlikely make much of a difference.I personally think Mega Kanga is very strong but it still might be too early to decide on a ban. The fact remains that when we have bank, we will have access to a lot more pokemon that can check/revenge kill him. This honestly reminds me of the Keldeo discussions all over again and even he ended up staying as he is. Sure one of Kanga's greatest strengths is it's ability to pick its counters but this is in what a lot of people feel is already a very predictable meta atm. Post-Bank i have a feeling that M-Kang will see more troubles in its sweep.
I also feel i have to agree, that it feels like we will slowly lose one mega at a time based on them being "too powerful". Where does it stop, soon i feel we will be having Mega Luke discussions due to the danger in mis-predictions regarding what set he is currently running. Plus that being amplified by the boost he sees to his base stats + adaptability. Mega Scizor would eventually be another one people will talk about due to his past two generations in OU being really solid + his increased bulk as a Mega.
My two cents is it will be best to just wait for PokeBank and then make a decision on the ban of M-Kang. I think we might be jumping the gun out of frustration in this stagnant meta.
I don't play Pokebank OU, but since it has access to Seismic Toss and Wish, in addition to a few other toys, it's probably even better.Don't we have Pokebank OU for this kinda thing where all the Pokemon are available on the simulator anyway? Since I don't play much PokeBank OU, how well does Kangaskhan do on said Pokebank OU, if it does as well as it does on non-Pokebank OU, then Pokebank would unlikely make much of a difference.
NO! NOPE NO NOOOOOOOOOO NOPEI personally think Mega Kanga is very strong but it still might be too early to decide on a ban. The fact remains that when we have bank, we will have access to a lot more pokemon that can check/revenge kill him. This honestly reminds me of the Keldeo discussions all over again and even he ended up staying as he is. Sure one of Kanga's greatest strengths is it's ability to pick its counters but this is in what a lot of people feel is already a very predictable meta atm. Post-Bank i have a feeling that M-Kang will see more troubles in its sweep.
I also feel i have to agree, that it feels like we will slowly lose one mega at a time based on them being "too powerful". Where does it stop, soon i feel we will be having Mega Luke discussions due to the danger in mis-predictions regarding what set he is currently running. Plus that being amplified by the boost he sees to his base stats + adaptability. Mega Scizor would eventually be another one people will talk about due to his past two generations in OU being really solid + his increased bulk as a Mega.
My two cents is it will be best to just wait for PokeBank and then make a decision on the ban of M-Kang. I think we might be jumping the gun out of frustration in this stagnant meta.