Remember Knock Off, it's also the main reason why the lati twins can't switch into it all the time ^^
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)
- Thread starter alexwolf
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Knock Off, U-turn, CM with Sludge Wave (+1 can 2HKO Physically Defensive after Rocks).
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 191-226 (43 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Then again CM with Sludge Wave is pretty dumb.
alexwolf you forgot to mention Rock Polish, which is a legit cleaner. Rock Polish can run a Modest nature while still outspeeding the entire meta bar Unburden Hawlucha after a boost and hits hard as fuck.
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0 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 140-166 (31.5 - 37.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Losing Leftovers might stink, but Landorus can't beat Cresselia 1v1 without a Calm Mind boost in advance.
Landorus isn't beating Cresselia true, but Cresselia is not a common Pokemon anyway, so it's not really a big trouble for Landorus. Also, Karxrida, i didn't mention any set other than all out attacker, i only said that Landorus is very versatile, being able to run SR, Rock Polish, and CM sets outside of the all out attacking set.
Imo you should add Charizard X and Azumarill to the conclusion reached category as well.
Char X is debatable because for the most part, it's got worse as the meta evolved. It's generally still up for some decent discussion. Azumarill everyone kind of figures it's an S rank threat and I don't think any meta game changes have taken place to warrant a drop of any kind.
Actually, i will add the whole S rank there, because some of them are definite S ranks, such as Thundurus and Azumarill, and the more controversial ones have already been discussed to death.
You could put something like (conclusion reached) next to the Pokemon because I doubt most people are going to scroll down on the first page of this thread. Or instead of the bottom put it somewhere on top, just a suggestion. Also shouldn't Mantine be in blacklisted instead? edit: nvm about Mantine, thought it wasn't ranked.
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I don't think so. It's relatively weak, can't take a hit, and there are about 10 better Pokemon to use your mega slot on, but a lot of people think it's really good so it's A- rank.
Scizor is not outclassed by his mega in pretty much anything but the SD set due to his mega's superior bulk. Normal Scizor's abillity to have an item is great for it, especially CB sets since they have more immediate power than the mega. Scizor should not move down.
Holy shit, you're alive O_O
Also y its fast, revenges exca in sand, is stronk, can stall break. Generally good against both offense and stall, very good mon :] Trace has good utility too.
A Mega is run depending on the role it has in the metagame. Mega Alakazam's fantastic Special Attack and Speed in tandem with great coverage and excellent utility in Trace are what place it in A-. It's really good in the current metagame. It does require opposing revenge killers and priority users to be off the field before it can function at its best, but since p much every A- Pokémon needs a good deal of support on top of Mega Alakazam not needing much other support to wreck shit, it's much deserving of its A- Rank.
How much does it matter that a mega takes up a mega slot when we rank them? Do we rank them as if they dont prevent you from using other megas, or as if it doesnt matter? To me it seems like a little of both. Mega Abomnasnow isnt ranked because there is almost no reason to use it over another mega. However, it seems as if megas like Mega Aerodactly are ranked on their own, without taking into account you cant use other, higher ranked, megas.
Mega Aero has an unique niche, considering its great super effective coverage and speed that can demolish offensive teams and some more bulky ones relying on VenuTran, as well as its typing that makes it an excellent answer to Bird spam in offensive teams all in one slot. Due to these traits, Mega Aerodactyl is not wasting the mega slot, it's an offensive mega with pros and cons like every other mega. The cons are just a little bit larger than higher-ranked megas, but it is by no means bad.
On the other hand, Mega Abomasnow is just slow and not that powerful. It also has too many weaknesses, and it's pretty much nicheless with Kyurem-B around. Maybe taking the mega slot is more taken into account for Mega Blastoise, however, because it's reliability as a spinner is not that useful when you can't use powerful SR-weak megas like Pinsir and Charizard alongside it.
On the other hand, Mega Abomasnow is just slow and not that powerful. It also has too many weaknesses, and it's pretty much nicheless with Kyurem-B around. Maybe taking the mega slot is more taken into account for Mega Blastoise, however, because it's reliability as a spinner is not that useful when you can't use powerful SR-weak megas like Pinsir and Charizard alongside it.
The way I see it, if a Mega's job is done by something else at around the same capacity or needs some kind of specialized support to function, then it should be noted. Mega Garchomp is actually on par with (if not better than) Kyurem-B when it comes to wallbreaking, but it needs specific support in Sand Stream to justify using it, hence why it's ranked lower.
Being a Mega Evolution just adds to your opportunity cost, aka the competition with other Pokemon fulfilling one or more similar roles. When choosing a MEvo, you not only have to make sure it's worth using over other Pokemon with the same roles (wallbreaker, pivot, hazard setter, revenge killer, etc), but that it is also worth using over other MEvos, as you can only use one of them. That's why, usually, it's better to put the MEvo either in the end or the beginning of the teambuilding process. If you choose the MEvo in the beginning, it usually means that it's a sweeper (DD Mega Charizard X, DD Mega Gyarados), and you are building a team able to facilitate its sweep. Thus, you make sure that the Mega slot is worth using in this particular Pokemon because of the specific support you dedicated to it. If you choose the MEvo in the end, you can clearly see what is missing from the team, and what particular role you need to fill. So, if a certain MEvo fits that role, it's rare that it will be competing with other MEvos for this team slot, because it's rare that another MEvo will be filling the same role while also having as good synergy with the rest of your team as the MEvo you have already chosen does.
Basically, being a MEvo just adds another type of ''role'' to a Pokemon, a role in which you compete with other MEvos. If the MEvo is pretty unique in what it does (bulky Mega Charizard X, SD bulky Mega Scizor) then it doesn't compete with much Pokemon for a team slot other than MEvos, meaning that its opportunity cost is not higher than this of a regular Pokemon that competes with a lot of Pokemon with similar roles (eg. DD Dragonite and SR Garchomp).
Kinda confusing post, i hope you get the point.
Mega Hera is A+ now? Woah. I know the AegiMaw bans helped him a lot but with his subpar speed and decent but not amazing bulk as well as being 4 times weak to birdspam STAB I don't see why he is A+. Unless someone can convince me otherwise Mega Heracross for A.
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singlehandely wrecks Stall's anus, and can kill anything on offense if it gets a switch-in, which is easy considering it's great typing.
I assume u meant A right?
Mega Heracross is easily the best of the three mega wallbreakers. He has an insane attack stat backed by an ability that he can't utilize perfectly with Pin Missile and Rock Blast. He has access to swords dance, which allows him to decimate stall, balance, and bulky offense after a boost. He OHKOes Skarm after rocks at +2 ffs.
To back it up, he has excellent 80/115/105 bulk which allows him to sponge neutral and resisted hits like a champ, as well as some non STAB SE attacks. This allows him to fare decently well against offense, unlike the physically frail Garde and all around frail Medi. He may lack the speed of he previous two, but base 75 is enough to outspeed every defensive Pokémon in the tier when running speed investment, as well as things like Jolly Breloom, Bisharp, Adamant Mamoswine, and Adamant DNite with a Jolly nature, which doesn't hinder his power at all.
Then there's the fact that he can kill things like Crocune, Mew, Slowbro, and defensive Lando T (after a boost ofc) without fearing anything bar a Scald burn. He also beats sand offense quite comfortably.
He may be weak to birdspam, but that's what the other 5 teammates are for. His ability to dismantle 3 separate team archetypes makes him well deserving of his A+ rank.
Mega Heracross detonates sand offense, mangles stall, fits most playstyles, and has almost no safe switch ins. The flying weakness doesn't even matter that much as long as you have a good check to the birds chilling in the back. A+ seems fine for it,especially considering it was pretty underrated before.
Yeah MHera is really a step above the other 2 mega wallbreakers IMO. Not only does it demolish stall, it also holds a lot of utility vs offense, doing really neat stuff like counterlead Breloom and check sand.
I've recently tried out the Sub SD set and it's really, really good, probably even better than SD 3 attacks as long as you can live with dropping Pin Missile. You beat stall even harder, setting up Sub on the likes of Chansey and Slowbro who will not stay in, and set up SD later on if needed. You don't even have to worry about Clefable switching in and ruining your SD. You also completely screw the ever-popular SpD Gliscor who often attempts to switch in and can't do a thing unless it runs Acrobatics (you even beat it 1v1 if Gliscor doesn't run enough to outspeed you which it usually doesn't). Vs more balanced teams it preforms really well too, since it can get a Sub up vs Ferrothron or Lando-T who are on pretty much every balanced and bulky offense team nowadays, and pretty much guarantee a KO from there, unless the opposing team has MGardevoir which is admittedly a huge thorn in MHera's side. It's also not deadweight vs offense either, since it can sub over a few Pokemon namely Bisharp and TTar (sand offense teams will not want so sack TTar early on since they need to keep it alive to provide sand). I'd recomend people give Sub SD MHera a try, it's just a great set all around.
Basically, of all the 3 wallbreaker megas, MHera is the one I find most consistent, not just at beating stall but at threatening offensive teams as well, so it makes sense for it to be ranked this high. It also benefits a lot from the state of the metagame in general. Right now, heavy non-sand offense, the only playstyle MHera is bad against, just isn't very good. I'm not too sure as to why this is, but teams with 6 offensive Pokemon and nothing that can take a hit tend to preform rather poorly from what I've experienced. Right now, bulky offense is pretty much the best playstyle, and not only is MHera a staple of this playstyle, it also fares very well against it. MHera is definitely a massive threat and deserving of A+.
I've recently tried out the Sub SD set and it's really, really good, probably even better than SD 3 attacks as long as you can live with dropping Pin Missile. You beat stall even harder, setting up Sub on the likes of Chansey and Slowbro who will not stay in, and set up SD later on if needed. You don't even have to worry about Clefable switching in and ruining your SD. You also completely screw the ever-popular SpD Gliscor who often attempts to switch in and can't do a thing unless it runs Acrobatics (you even beat it 1v1 if Gliscor doesn't run enough to outspeed you which it usually doesn't). Vs more balanced teams it preforms really well too, since it can get a Sub up vs Ferrothron or Lando-T who are on pretty much every balanced and bulky offense team nowadays, and pretty much guarantee a KO from there, unless the opposing team has MGardevoir which is admittedly a huge thorn in MHera's side. It's also not deadweight vs offense either, since it can sub over a few Pokemon namely Bisharp and TTar (sand offense teams will not want so sack TTar early on since they need to keep it alive to provide sand). I'd recomend people give Sub SD MHera a try, it's just a great set all around.
Basically, of all the 3 wallbreaker megas, MHera is the one I find most consistent, not just at beating stall but at threatening offensive teams as well, so it makes sense for it to be ranked this high. It also benefits a lot from the state of the metagame in general. Right now, heavy non-sand offense, the only playstyle MHera is bad against, just isn't very good. I'm not too sure as to why this is, but teams with 6 offensive Pokemon and nothing that can take a hit tend to preform rather poorly from what I've experienced. Right now, bulky offense is pretty much the best playstyle, and not only is MHera a staple of this playstyle, it also fares very well against it. MHera is definitely a massive threat and deserving of A+.
Nominating Chesnaught for C+ rank.
Chesnaught really isn't that good imo. Surely it has a niche on stall teams where it can wall stuff like Mega Gyarados and Mega Tyranitar and it also has Spikes and a nifty ability but it just isn't that good. Almost every stall team uses Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Celebi or Amoongus instead as a bulky Grass types and usually you won't see Chesnaught on the same team to avoid type redundancy. Due to this Chesnaught faces quite a bit of competition for a team slot. Also the Pokemon Chesnaught can deal with aren't that big of a threat to stall teams really. Mega Gyarados is walled by Alomomola and Skarmory. Mega Tyranitar has trouble with Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Hippowdon, Quagsire etc you get the point. Spikes is a nice thing Chesnaught has but Skarmory have also been starting to run Spikes lately so it's niche isn't that unique. Also Bulletproof is a good ability but not really for Chesnaught. SubWisp Gengar can easily win vs. Chesnaught which is the main thing that uses Bomb and Ball based moves. Chesnaught is also an open invite to Pokemon like Mega Gardevoir which isn't really a good thing for stall. All in all Chesnaught isn't that bad but it faces competition from a lot of other Grass types and it kind of feels out of place in B- rank.
Chesnaught really isn't that good imo. Surely it has a niche on stall teams where it can wall stuff like Mega Gyarados and Mega Tyranitar and it also has Spikes and a nifty ability but it just isn't that good. Almost every stall team uses Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Celebi or Amoongus instead as a bulky Grass types and usually you won't see Chesnaught on the same team to avoid type redundancy. Due to this Chesnaught faces quite a bit of competition for a team slot. Also the Pokemon Chesnaught can deal with aren't that big of a threat to stall teams really. Mega Gyarados is walled by Alomomola and Skarmory. Mega Tyranitar has trouble with Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Hippowdon, Quagsire etc you get the point. Spikes is a nice thing Chesnaught has but Skarmory have also been starting to run Spikes lately so it's niche isn't that unique. Also Bulletproof is a good ability but not really for Chesnaught. SubWisp Gengar can easily win vs. Chesnaught which is the main thing that uses Bomb and Ball based moves. Chesnaught is also an open invite to Pokemon like Mega Gardevoir which isn't really a good thing for stall. All in all Chesnaught isn't that bad but it faces competition from a lot of other Grass types and it kind of feels out of place in B- rank.
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