Who says in this day and age one must run to hit e-speed? One can just simply kick to it!
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Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]
- Thread starter bb skarm
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Who says in this day and age one must run to hit e-speed? One can just simply kick to it!
Recover Lanturn
Have a hard relationship you want to end, but too shy to just end it yourself? Avail would gladly take care of that for you :)
SEE?!?!?!? This is exactly the cruelty that are hobbit feet opponent will impose upon us. To say anything less would be pulling our legs. Don't vote for this evil Jackie Chan and vote for Absol to leave a parting shot for this evil black belt, so we may unite to crush him under our feet, just like he crushes innocent pikachus.See, if I were voting for Hitmonlee, the appropriate campaign would be…
GET LEGS
Recover Lanturn. While Rhydon looks quite good as well, it's kind of abusing a loophole in order to buff Rhyperior, who is B+.
Awesome slate here. I'll certainly be expanding more on Goodra, because it has such a massive move pool, but I'll touch on all of them briefly here.
- Protean Goodra: Holy. Shit. That's all I have to say. With better SpA than Greninja, this thing is gonna hurt so much if you go Life Orb, but honestly, I think it's just a massive improvement to the Assault Vest set. It gives it a lot of extra power thanks to Protean. Not to mention the amazing things Goodra has access to, namely BoltBeam, Fire Blast, and Dragon STAB. It has complete unresisted STAB coverage in those 4 moves, and I think that with its bulk, it would become a serious threat in our metagame. I wouldn't be surprised if this won.
- Healing Wish Klefki: So this one is less overtly cool, but it's still really cool nonetheless. What it's cool for is Prankster team support, rather than Prankster annoyances (which it can also do a few of with Spikes and T-Wave). Being able to GUARANTEE a full heal on a teammate is a really cool concept, and Klefki can more or less guarantee that with its amazing typing. Very few things can outright KO Klefki in one hit.
- Lightningrod Empoleon: I tip my hat to Dilasc for this one. Coming up with theorymons that are both really cool and don't contradict flavor is not an easy task. This is easily one of the coolest ones someone has submitted in a while. Lightningrod allows Empoleon to turn Rotom-W into a complete liability on the opponent's team. Not only does Emp punish Volt-Swith abuse, but it can also Defog and Scald. Maybe Empoleon won't end up S ranked, but it'd sure be a huge step up from where it was.
- Levitate Doublade: GOD I LOVE THIS. Turning one of the best answers to Doublade into something Doublade can switch into (I'm talking about Sand Rush Excadrill) is hilariously shenaniganny, and I love it. Removing the Ground weakness makes Doublade THAT much harder to kill. This alone would probably force a lot of teams to make sure they have a strong Fire move, or else they'd be in for a hell of a long game against Doublade. I'm kind of expecting this to win.
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Protean Goodra - I'm going to argue that it doesn't have enough flavor for this. Protean means versatile or easily changeable, which Goodra is not. It's not that good anyway, because Protean requires you to be fast in order to not have your type taken advantage of.
Healing Wish Klefki - Setting off Healing Wish is almost guaranteed because of Prankster and its excellent typing. I can see the merit in using it.
Lightningrod Empoleon - Anything that turns a weakness into a helpful stat boost is appreciated. Like Mega Sceptile will be doing in a couple of weeks, come in on a Volt Switch and then fire off +1 Scald/Hydro Pump/etc. to punish them for it.
Levitate Doublade - I feel like I've seen this before. But yeah, incredibly strong, I'm probably not going to vote for it because I don't want Aegislash Part 2.
Also, is there any particular reason why this entire slate is Pokemon that are barely eligible for buffs? It'd be great to see more Mons that actually need the buff to be viable at all, as those are far better to discuss IMO.
Healing Wish Klefki - Setting off Healing Wish is almost guaranteed because of Prankster and its excellent typing. I can see the merit in using it.
Lightningrod Empoleon - Anything that turns a weakness into a helpful stat boost is appreciated. Like Mega Sceptile will be doing in a couple of weeks, come in on a Volt Switch and then fire off +1 Scald/Hydro Pump/etc. to punish them for it.
Levitate Doublade - I feel like I've seen this before. But yeah, incredibly strong, I'm probably not going to vote for it because I don't want Aegislash Part 2.
Also, is there any particular reason why this entire slate is Pokemon that are barely eligible for buffs? It'd be great to see more Mons that actually need the buff to be viable at all, as those are far better to discuss IMO.
Uh, "versatile or easily changeable" Goodra is literally made of Goo. I'd say that's a changeable shape.
Regardless, anything B- or below in the OU viability rankings is worth a buff, so sorry if what was slated wasn't Sunflora status. This thread isn't meant to just give shitty mons buffs--it's meant to see what would happen to the metagame if certain things were different. We put constraints such as "B- or less" in place so that we can exclude things that would utterly break the metagame, but honestly that doesn't matter that much. Also, if you feel that certain things deserve a spot on our slate over what we have chosen, then please submit things that are worth slating. As far as I see it, everything is "eligible for buffs". I don't care if it's NU, UU, or OU, anything can be buffed if it's worth examining the effects on the metagame.
Alright, as I promised, I'm going to actually speak this time. It's really good to see Absol win something for once. I actually want to submit some sort of Theorymon this time around. If I get time this weekend I'll throw something together. I'll probably do something with Entei.
Protean Goodra: Holy god. Who's idea was this? Goodra with Protean is all around better than Greninja. It has higher SpA, great coverage moves that doesn't have to run HP Fire and MUCH better bulk. The only thing it has down from the Ninja is the downfall in Speed. If you stick a Choice Specs or Life Orb on it, it's going to HURT. I loved using Goodra, and now it's going to be one of the best, if not the best, bulky attackers in OU. If this was its real ability, I wouldn't doubt that it would be A / A+. My vote will definitely go to Goodra.
Healing Wish Klefki: I'm honestly on the wall about this one. It seems really cool on paper, I'm not going to lie, I'm just not a fan of it and I can't explain why. (hey, that rhymed //shot) Maybe this is only because Klefki really has no reliable healing. So basically, if you put it on your team, you can barely even count it as a Pokemon. Sure, you get a nearly guaranteed heal, and that is really cool, but I've never been a fan of Klefki to begin with. I can't tell if this is just bias or not.
Lightningrod Empoleon: Another fantastic ability, but I have the same problem with Empoleon as I did Klefki. It has no reliable recovery. Sure, this gives it an immunity, but I think Volt Absorb would have been much more helpful. It's still weak to common attacking types like Ground and Fighting, and I just don't think it shines as well as Protean Goodra. Shame, too. Empoleon would be fantastic with Lightningrod.
Levitate Doublade: Eh. Still too Knock Off paranoid because it basically has to run Evolite, and I was never a fan or Aegislash to begin with. Don't really have a lot to say here, I just don't like it.
Sorry if this was a bit short. I'm currently in math class on my IPhone, so I'm not even supposed to be on right now. Heh.
Protean Goodra: Holy god. Who's idea was this? Goodra with Protean is all around better than Greninja. It has higher SpA, great coverage moves that doesn't have to run HP Fire and MUCH better bulk. The only thing it has down from the Ninja is the downfall in Speed. If you stick a Choice Specs or Life Orb on it, it's going to HURT. I loved using Goodra, and now it's going to be one of the best, if not the best, bulky attackers in OU. If this was its real ability, I wouldn't doubt that it would be A / A+. My vote will definitely go to Goodra.
Healing Wish Klefki: I'm honestly on the wall about this one. It seems really cool on paper, I'm not going to lie, I'm just not a fan of it and I can't explain why. (hey, that rhymed //shot) Maybe this is only because Klefki really has no reliable healing. So basically, if you put it on your team, you can barely even count it as a Pokemon. Sure, you get a nearly guaranteed heal, and that is really cool, but I've never been a fan of Klefki to begin with. I can't tell if this is just bias or not.
Lightningrod Empoleon: Another fantastic ability, but I have the same problem with Empoleon as I did Klefki. It has no reliable recovery. Sure, this gives it an immunity, but I think Volt Absorb would have been much more helpful. It's still weak to common attacking types like Ground and Fighting, and I just don't think it shines as well as Protean Goodra. Shame, too. Empoleon would be fantastic with Lightningrod.
Levitate Doublade: Eh. Still too Knock Off paranoid because it basically has to run Evolite, and I was never a fan or Aegislash to begin with. Don't really have a lot to say here, I just don't like it.
Sorry if this was a bit short. I'm currently in math class on my IPhone, so I'm not even supposed to be on right now. Heh.
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As promised, here's the follow up on Goodra's disgustingly large move pool…
Moves 100BP or greater
Seriously this move pool does things to me. There's more than one combination of 3 type neutral coverage in that move pool, and guess what? It's all STAB now. Combine that with a base 100 Attack and a base 110 SpA, and you get a seriously scary pokemon to switch into. Yes--it's slower, but that's actually a good thing, because it allows Goodra to take advantage of its amazing Dragon-Type resistances. So you can come in--force things out, and then the most ridiculous predictions come into play. Your opponent might hesitate to throw Mega Gardevoir or Sylveon out because HELLO--Sludge Wave or Iron Tail. Think you can bring in a faster Dragon HIYA--Ice Beam or Dragon move of choice. What I love most is that this thing can truly go Physical or Special or mixed now. Guys--nothing is safe.
Moves 100BP or greater
- Focus Blast
- Draco Meteor
- Iron Tail
- Outrage
- Power Whip
- Fire Blast
- Blizzard
- Thunder
- Earthquake
- Aqua Tail
- Flamethrower
- Muddy Water
- Sludge Bomb
- Sludge Wave
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
Seriously this move pool does things to me. There's more than one combination of 3 type neutral coverage in that move pool, and guess what? It's all STAB now. Combine that with a base 100 Attack and a base 110 SpA, and you get a seriously scary pokemon to switch into. Yes--it's slower, but that's actually a good thing, because it allows Goodra to take advantage of its amazing Dragon-Type resistances. So you can come in--force things out, and then the most ridiculous predictions come into play. Your opponent might hesitate to throw Mega Gardevoir or Sylveon out because HELLO--Sludge Wave or Iron Tail. Think you can bring in a faster Dragon HIYA--Ice Beam or Dragon move of choice. What I love most is that this thing can truly go Physical or Special or mixed now. Guys--nothing is safe.
silver97
GUNDELEROS WE DO THE PATTO DI SANGUE
wow, goodra can really shine with this ability cause it has one of the widest movepool of the game.
i don't think that dragon moves will be needed anymore, it gains STAB on every move so you can pick one that helps you hit supereffectively more threats.
boltbeam+fire move will probably be staples because they give an awesome coverage, in the last slot imo the best move is sludge bomb as it covers fairies, power whip can be an option for water types that are not weak to electric or maybe it could keep running draco meteor just for its impressive power, even if it will force you to switch out
i don't think that dragon moves will be needed anymore, it gains STAB on every move so you can pick one that helps you hit supereffectively more threats.
boltbeam+fire move will probably be staples because they give an awesome coverage, in the last slot imo the best move is sludge bomb as it covers fairies, power whip can be an option for water types that are not weak to electric or maybe it could keep running draco meteor just for its impressive power, even if it will force you to switch out
At work, so can't give my full thoughts, but
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think the best set for Goodra would probably be:
Goodra @ Assault Vest/Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Quiet Nature
EVs: 248 HP/ 252 SpA/ 8 SpDef
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam
-Iron Tail/Sludge Wave
I chose Iron Tail, because 1.) it OHKOs Mega Gardevoir and Diancie, and 2.) Nothing is immune to Steel, so you can cut away completely dead turns. Obviously, you can tinker with the set as much as you want, but I think this one hits the majority of the metagame for major damage.
EDIT: Slashed Sludge Wave because it lets you hit Clefable way harder than Iron Tail.
Goodra @ Assault Vest/Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Quiet Nature
EVs: 248 HP/ 252 SpA/ 8 SpDef
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam
-Iron Tail/Sludge Wave
I chose Iron Tail, because 1.) it OHKOs Mega Gardevoir and Diancie, and 2.) Nothing is immune to Steel, so you can cut away completely dead turns. Obviously, you can tinker with the set as much as you want, but I think this one hits the majority of the metagame for major damage.
EDIT: Slashed Sludge Wave because it lets you hit Clefable way harder than Iron Tail.
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silver97
GUNDELEROS WE DO THE PATTO DI SANGUE
i prefer sludge bomb/wave over iron tail because gardevoir can be only hit on the switch as you don't want to be crippled by an hyper voice, but i agree with this set being probably the most effective. with assault vest goodra can pivot in in a lot of attacks and threaten with STABs so probably av>LO cause LO makes it die very quickly. also i think is worth considering earthquake cause heatran walls all the attacks except tbolt (even if it can't do a lot in return).
Well Gardevoir is never going to be hitting you when you're Dragon type because it's presumably coming in as you're using a move. Otherwise you shouldn't stay in.
Idk, im still looking forward to Lightning Rod Empoleon. Since we already know how horrendous it is trying to add Roost to its movepool ( dear lord that was chaotic last time...) its nice seeing it capable of giving it an offensive life again. It can practically use Rotom-W as a means to set up an agility, and with +1 Sp. Attack behind it, it will be like the good ol days of DPt or so :D
Or that's one of the ways I would be using it. Sure there are the defensive merits too but I like the idea of him regaining some former luster.
Or that's one of the ways I would be using it. Sure there are the defensive merits too but I like the idea of him regaining some former luster.
stopped getting alerts :(
i could swear i saw more bold lanturns
anyway posting here so i do get alerts, will give my views tomorrow
anyway posting here so i do get alerts, will give my views tomorrow
silver97
GUNDELEROS WE DO THE PATTO DI SANGUE
yeah i was referring to a situation of 1v1 when i sayed "you don't want to be crippled by hyper voice" sorry if i wasnt clear. however i don't think that gardevoir will want to switch on goodra's attacks often as it is not so bulky and doesn't like being weakened too much easing the revenge kill. That's why i say sludge bomb>iron tail, it also doesn't miss and has a good chance of poisoning that is always helpful
Versatile: Able to change or be changed to many different functions or activities (Oxford dictionary). Goodra is not that. Don't be so literal.
By the way, for everyone hyping that Goodra has more SpA than Greninja, it has a whopping 7 more base SpA.
You've got a point, but I will point out that less viable Pokemon will have a bigger effect on the metagame because it's not something that's been seen and prepared for already.
So you're saying that something that has a movepool so wide cannot have multiple functions? Ya ok.
Also, to address your second point, you're right to an extent. Things that are unprepared for absolutely do function well in the metagame. Baton Pass was a perfect example of that. However, things that are just good also thrive in the metagame. Zard X is always going to thrive in the metagame despite how often people prepare for it because it is simply that good. I see no problem in making a theorymon that is equivalent to that.
Funny thing is, I suggested Volt Absorb simultaneously as sort of an either/or.
If you think you can take an unviable Pokemon and make it relevant: DO IT! Send a PM to the council with an idea to buff an oft-forgotten monster.
alright here i come
Goodra+Protean: I don't know what stall-viable moves it has, but i guess it could work as a defensive version of Greninja where it constantly changes it typing so you've to cry and rub your face on it's slick body and beg for pardon. And it isn't slow by any means, base 80 speed is good when it can tank hits from faster mons. It can go physical, special, mix w/e the fk you want, so it could be more dangerous than Greninja as slapping a pink fat egg-stealing blob doesn't solve the issues. It could form a partnership with Greninja (like Salamence and Rayquaza in DPP Ubers) so that one weakens and other cleans. Really like this suggestion.
Klefki+Healing Wish: No.
Empoleon+Lightning Rod: While DPP starters were all so good, i really loved Empoleon(not piplup mind you). It has a fantastic typing, and Lightning Rod is a very nice buff to it. No longer it needs to worry about Thundy and MegaMan. Heck you actually check them now, except for Focus Blast Thundy, but we know what Focus Blast actually does. It will actually be more meta-changing than anything i've seen yet, but not to the extent of being godly. Love it as well. Nice one Dilasc :)
Doublade+Levitate: read:klefki
so yeah stuck b/w illectric immune penguin and an undragonly dragon
Goodra+Protean: I don't know what stall-viable moves it has, but i guess it could work as a defensive version of Greninja where it constantly changes it typing so you've to cry and rub your face on it's slick body and beg for pardon. And it isn't slow by any means, base 80 speed is good when it can tank hits from faster mons. It can go physical, special, mix w/e the fk you want, so it could be more dangerous than Greninja as slapping a pink fat egg-stealing blob doesn't solve the issues. It could form a partnership with Greninja (like Salamence and Rayquaza in DPP Ubers) so that one weakens and other cleans. Really like this suggestion.
Klefki+Healing Wish: No.
Empoleon+Lightning Rod: While DPP starters were all so good, i really loved Empoleon(not piplup mind you). It has a fantastic typing, and Lightning Rod is a very nice buff to it. No longer it needs to worry about Thundy and MegaMan. Heck you actually check them now, except for Focus Blast Thundy, but we know what Focus Blast actually does. It will actually be more meta-changing than anything i've seen yet, but not to the extent of being godly. Love it as well. Nice one Dilasc :)
Doublade+Levitate: read:klefki
so yeah stuck b/w illectric immune penguin and an undragonly dragon
I hate slates with 4 good options, but here we go.
Protean Goodra obviously with its strong special defense and diverse move pool an assault vest will be good, very effective at coming in on any special attacks, but I was thinking of using this as a purely offensive buff, and trying a specs set. You come in, force the switch, and pound the new guy with a STAB draco meteor or fire blast. I say that less to convince people it'll be effective and more to show that there's more than one way this can be used, even with that meh speed stat.
Give klefki a way to kill itself? Hell yes! Unfortunately I've already voted for one prankster and absolutely refuse to allow another.
I like Lightning Rod Emoleon, but with goodra being such a strong option, I'll need some convincing. The penguin looks very comparable to Heatran, but heatran has a huge advantage of being one of the only fire types that isn't total garbage defensively, Empoleon on the other hand has plenty of water competition.
Levitate Doublade is certainly better than no guard, but it still seems like knock off, shadow ball, and fire blast bait. As good as that typing is, it was always the mind games that made Aegislash so good, and of the three bulky attackers in this slate, this is probably my last choice, simply because we already know what affect this would have on the meta if it were to be great, and everyone decided they didn't like it already.
Protean Goodra obviously with its strong special defense and diverse move pool an assault vest will be good, very effective at coming in on any special attacks, but I was thinking of using this as a purely offensive buff, and trying a specs set. You come in, force the switch, and pound the new guy with a STAB draco meteor or fire blast. I say that less to convince people it'll be effective and more to show that there's more than one way this can be used, even with that meh speed stat.
Give klefki a way to kill itself? Hell yes! Unfortunately I've already voted for one prankster and absolutely refuse to allow another.
I like Lightning Rod Emoleon, but with goodra being such a strong option, I'll need some convincing. The penguin looks very comparable to Heatran, but heatran has a huge advantage of being one of the only fire types that isn't total garbage defensively, Empoleon on the other hand has plenty of water competition.
Levitate Doublade is certainly better than no guard, but it still seems like knock off, shadow ball, and fire blast bait. As good as that typing is, it was always the mind games that made Aegislash so good, and of the three bulky attackers in this slate, this is probably my last choice, simply because we already know what affect this would have on the meta if it were to be great, and everyone decided they didn't like it already.
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