Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]

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SparksBlade

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Forretress + Sticky Web
'cos
1) hate the blobs
2) i like glalie(don't know why though), and prantser frosslass outclasses it even more
3) only a mega can save it, so for next slate somebody nominate mega flygon with w/e buffs seems suitable :]
 
1) hate the blobs
2) i like glalie(don't know why though), and prantser frosslass outclasses it even more
3) only a mega can save it, so for next slate somebody nominate mega flygon with w/e buffs seems suitable :]
Guys--please--no nominations for mega evolutions. I get it--they add so much to a pokemon, but for the sake of this thread, please stick to move set additions, ability changes, and type changes.
 
Prankster Froslass

Regenerator is a great thing for Blissey, but as mentioned before, it has no Natural Cure now. Regenerator gives it a new niche over Chansey, but if it has to run Wish and Heal Bell/Aromatherapy, then it has only one slot to either inflict status or run some attack, so it isn't utter Taunt bait. It could also forgo Protect and depend entirely on Regenerator for healing to run both the status and attack, but that's a risky play to compromise its longevity, since Wish gives free turns for something to smack Blissey. Basically, it does absolutely nothing to fix the passivity of the blob, and I'm not a huge fan of using such passive mons on my team. I really think it's a great idea, but I'm not its biggest fan.

Prankster is just an incredible add for Froslass and makes it an incredible lead. It now has priority Spikes, Taunt, and Destiny Bond, which means it can set up hazards reliably, shut down other hazard leads (or subdue them in case the opponent decides to lead with a different mon), and threaten a kill on just about any offensive Pokemon thanks to having priority on all those moves. With Prankster, Froslass can pretty much guarantee one layer of Spikes and a kill. That's a major buff and enough to get my vote.

The other two options were interesting, but they just aren't enough. Forretress just has the same passivity problem that Blissey does. It's gotten much less effective because of how much momentum it kills. In a metagame that is really predicated on momentum, using something like Forretress, which is sometimes a complete stop to forward progress, is hard to do successfully. Sticky Web becomes more viable with Forretress, but Forretress still can't succeed. Flygon just lacks the power with its mediocre Base 100 Attack, and it no longer has a Ground immunity with Tinted Lens. Flygon has needed a buff to keep up with the Dragon terrors of the metagame, but Tinted Lens just doesn't do it.
 
Alright guys,

We're going to wrap up voting tomorrow morning. If you haven't voted yet, please please PLEASE do so. We've got Prankster Frosslass pulling away with the win, but some activity could change things up.

Catch y'all on the flip side,

;lmlm
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
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Recover Lanturn <3

But yeah, Recover is fantastic on Laturn. Extends its longevity by a ton, in particular lets it consistently beat Greninja, Thundurus, Talonflame, and offensive Stramie. Also makes it take on Heatran, YZard, and Azumarill much better, and can actually beat Weavile now. It also doesn't have to struggle to fit Recover in given that it had a completely filler slot in the first place. Defenitely a very interesting option, and obviously my personal favourite.
 
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3 wins--I'm on a roll :3….

Anyways, this looks like a good slate to me.

Recover Lanturn: Say hello to your new favorite Talonflame counter. I really liked this submission because it's a fantastic check to BirdSpam. You can easily switch into anything Talonflame throws at you, and once it's in, none of the birds want to risk a Scald burn. Lanturn could already do this, but the problem was its poor longevity. Recover lets it heal up and last significantly longer throughout the battle. This looks like a fantastic tool for Balanced teams.

Extremespeed Hitmonlee: So this was me wanting the Unburden set to be viable enough to use in OU. Hitmonlee's single greatest roadblocks this generation are Talonflame (and subsequently the rise of birds), and priority. Extremespeed lets it bypass these roadblocks (KO's Talonflame after rocks and a Liechi boost). You could run either Focus Sash SD, or Endure Liechi with Hitmonlee, and it'd function very similarly to Hawlucha minus the Flying type. Is this going to rock the OU metagame? Probably not. Is it a much needed buff to a Pokemon falling behind the times? Yes.

Solid Rock Rhydon: Say hello to ANOTHER BirdSpam check. This thing is actually better than Rhyperior is, so I have no doubts that it would fit in well in our metagame. Y'know how Mega Pinsir can cripple Rhyperior with a +2 Close Combat? Yeah now it does only a little more than 50%, so Pinsir's not staying in on Rhydon to weaken it for another bird. I really like this one.

Parting Shot Absol: Is it too much to ask GF to give their coolest moves to more Pokemon? Parting Shot is easily one of the coolest things they made in XY, but they gave it to such a shitty Pokemon. Anyways, the thought process behind this one was you not only get a potent offensive threat with Mega Absol, but you get a Magic Bouncer; imagine giving that threat a momentum inducing move? Mega Absol is fast, so you can use it as a pseudo U-Turn. Parting Shot reduces the offenses, so you can actually turn checks into hard counters with it. I think this would make Absol MUCH more used purely because of its ability to form momentum cores. Probably getting my vote because I really REALLY want to see more Parting Shot.
 

Patolegend!

Fan of 1000 Arrow 'Slash
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
And our new slate is:

+ Recover

Reliable recovery might be enough to make Lanturn jump above its less-bulky competitor Rotom-W. With volt absorb, heal bell, and recover, lanturn would be difficult to wear down, while offering just as much utility as Rotom in the form of scald burns and volt switch. An added ground weakness is a disadvantage on the face of it, as rotom-W is always used to check Lando-T; however, with the popularity of scarf lando, that ground weakness is easily taken advantage of.

+ Extreme Speed


I really don't see what this get's over Lucario to be honest, apart from being able to take a special hit. Maybe with un-revengable unburden endure, liechi, reversal and e-speed, but sand's prevalence and the presence of gengar halt it's usefulness. With a reckless HJK, double-edge, e-speed and coverage it could do some damage, but again, its lack of speed, boosting moves, and steel typing would make it difficult to pick over skywalker. E-speed spam would become a thing though.

+ Solid Rock

The defence of this monster would be insane, although it would have to run Rest Talk sets for reliable recovery. Should be able to wall almost any physical mon though, apart from Mega Gyarados and mold breaker 'Drill.

+ Parting Shot



I really like this, and think it might be enough to try using Absol. It would make Absol much easier to Mega Evolve, and add great momentum to U-turn teams, as its great speed tier tends to give it a lot of free turns. I like the flavor of this one as well.
 
I don't have much time now, but Solid Rock Rhydon easily is one of the BEST theorymons we've had...ever.

I'll let the calcs speak for now (all of these factor in Solid Rock):

252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Solid Rock Rhydon: 180-216 (43.4 - 52.1%) -- 12.9% chance to 2HKO

+6 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Solid Rock Rhydon: 378-445 (91.3 - 107.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Solid Rock Rhydon: 201-243 (48.5 - 58.6%) -- 97.3% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Solid Rock Rhydon: 252-306 (60.8 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah, so, this is the end-all be-all to BirdSpam.
 
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I also think it's worth noting that Rhydon can actually counter Sand Offense as well. While it is very--and I mean VERY--prone to getting worn down, it has the bulk and power to eliminate Tyranitar and Excadrill from a match. I wouldn't say it's the best theorymon I've ever seen slated, but it's a good one. It definitely isn't an easy button to counter BirdSpam or Sand Offense, however, because it relies on teammates for healing. That alone means it requires support to work at its best.
 
Even then, it still isn't threatened by direct attacks, as Excadrill's LO Iron Head is, 85% of the time, a 4HKO. RestTalk does seem pretty bad, but I think it can pull of a similar strategy to RestTalk Mega Ampharos, take a hit and retaliate, only with less special bulk and a worse defensive typing.
 
ResTalk sounds like a niche set at best, because Rhydon can do everything that Rhyperior can do. Why not just run the Rock STAB/EQ/Stealth Rock/Dragon Tail set? You can switch in on Tflame, get up rocks, then just annoy the opponent with your bulk. It's a tried-and-true set that has been proven to work in the metagame.
 
Lanturn is a pretty cool dude. While most of his stats are quite bad, his saving grace is his base 125 (I think? I could be wrong) HP. In some ways he's like a reverse Rotom-W; high HP but low defenses instead of the other way. But now, Lanturn gets recovery. Super good now, and with Scald, Volt Switch, and an Electric (or Water...) immunity, he's a solid theorymon.

The other one I'm interested in is Parting Shot Mega Absol. Parting Shot is a great move, and with it, Absol has a much easier time taking out switch-ins with teammate help, or assistance in sweeping. Plus, Absol is already a decent poke on its own, but now it's that much better.

All in all, a good slate.
 

SparksBlade

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ok these look like the most balanced slate i've seen-there's 2 for offence and 2 for defence. Everyone's said their fill about all of them, i don't feel like contradicting them. While i flipped looking at ESpeed Hitmonlee, i decided this wasn't the one for me(even though it would really bring it out of obscurity) 'cos i don't want ;lmlm to win again i think the meta is getting too offence based and i don't think Mega Audino will be a saviour come ORAS, so i think Recover Lanturn is the one i'll vote for unless :lmlm gives me cookies :)
 
ok these look like the most balanced slate i've seen-there's 2 for offence and 2 for defence. Everyone's said their fill about all of them, i don't feel like contradicting them. While i flipped looking at ESpeed Hitmonlee, i decided this wasn't the one for me(even though it would really bring it out of obscurity) 'cos i don't want ;lmlm to win again i think the meta is getting too offence based and i don't think Mega Audino will be a saviour come ORAS, so i think Recover Lanturn is the one i'll vote for unless :lmlm gives me cookies :)
O_:toast:

F-fren???
 
I'm a huge fan of Recover Lanturn. It doesn't have to rely on RestTalk or Volt Absorb for healing, and with its high HP stat and solid bulk, it's a good answer to VoltTurn. It can also be a reliable answer to offensive threats such as Talonflame and Thundurus. Recover gives Lanturn a niche outside of Rotom-W, who is similar.
 
So I sent in Solid Rock Rhydon, and I really don't care how it does, just seemed like an idea there.

I like E-Speed Hitmonlee as even though its ridiculously silly in some forms (It doesn't quite hit like Lucario since it lacks Sword Dance but can make up for it with Bulk Up and Normal Gem I guess) allows Hitmonlee to bypass its slight speed issue if it wishes in order to abuse a reckless hi jump kick or so which may be a bit weaker than mienshao's, but that guy doesn't have a way to get past Talon outside of switch in Fake Out. I would really like to see how Hitmonlee would work as its been a good while since I saw it have any fun, and I think it would enjoy the new toy :D

While the others are nice, they don't give something to a mon that isn't even seen in OU at all (Absol and Lanturn are ranked afterall) and I feel just it would be better to try a hitmonlee around for kicks (hehe) and giggles.


Also don't forget to send us ideas for future theorymons as always :D
 
Adding on to Salemance, when you send submissions,

Please adhere to the requirements in the OP. If you're unaware of them, they're:

-Make sure the submission doesn't contradict flavor

-No mindless offensive buffs

-Submissions must be B- or lower in viability (if it has a mega evolution, whichever form is higher ranked is what is what we go by)
 

Valmanway

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Recover Lanturn: This is a good idea at first sight, but it's not as amazing as I first thought of it. With Recover, Lanturn can take on Mega Manectric, Thundurus, and Greninja more reliably, and having a method to heal off entry hazard damage is nice. But I still would rather use Rotom-W, simply because its stats, aside from HP of course, are superior to Lanturn's, since it's much faster and hits much harder. Will-O-Wisp is more reliable for burning foes than Scald, and having Levitate to flip off Ground-types lacking Mold Breaker makes it really hard for me to use Lanturn. The only thing I see working for it is a cleric set with Heal Bell, and even then, I would have to seriously weigh my other options before choosing Lanturn. It's not a bad idea by any means, I just don't see the appeal to this is all.

Extreme Speed Hitmonlee: This one had potential, being like a half breed between Lucario and Hawlucha, but kind of comes up short. While Hitmonlee's Special Defense is impressive, it can't take a hit from the physical side worth beans, and it also doesn't have a lot of resistances to take advantage of, so it only inherits Extreme Speed and immediate power from Lucario. As for inheriting Hawlucha's traits, Unburden can go a long way, but it's a one-shot deal that can blow up in your face if someone manages to force a switch. What's worse, Hitmonlee doesn't get Swords Dance, which would have made it a lot more interesting. Normal Gen shenanigans could possibly work, since Extreme Speed would be easy setup for Unburden to take effect, though Extreme Speed is kind of a wasted moveslot after that, since lacking an offensive item AND a setup move aside from Bulk Up makes it weaker than one would think. I'm not so sure about this one to be honest. It might be the other Theorymons on this slate making me bias, but as a whole, not my favorite idea that we've had so far.

Solid Rock Rhydon: Massive defenses? Check. Eviolite compatible? Check. Solid Rock? Well, it's a check now! With Solid Rock, Eviolite Rhydon would pretty much make Rhyperior the new Blissey on OU terms, as the extra bulk from Eviolite greatly exceeds the recovery from Leftovers in this case, and if something is replacing Rhyperior for its role, and Rhyperior is already a pretty good Pokemon, then it's hard to imagine Solid Rock Rhydon doing anything other than succeeding. There really isn't much to say here except that this Theorymon would be amazing, and I can see this one winning.

Parting Shot Absol: I can't tell if this is a buff to Absol or to Parting Shot lol. I mean, Parting Shot is such a cool move, but being learned only by the Pangoro family sucks big time, so seeing it on ANYTHING that's even remotely viable in OU is already one hell of an improvement. Absol really needed this though, since he doesn't have to stay in on a threat to Mega Evolve now, and the ability to scout with it and weaken foes is amazing. Weakening something for a wall to safely wall it and letting a more frail Pokemon have a chance at sucking up a hit is invaluable team support; it's kind of like instant Reflect/Light Screen support, just not making things as durable as the actual screens and switching instantly removes it. Love this one, and I wouldn't be surprised if this Theorymon won.
 
Recover Lanturn- Tired of all your bird spam checks being worn down? Look no further. Recover makes Lanturn the best bird spam counter out there, doesn't loose much in terms of having to run recover for a move slot, and can keep momentum with volt switch. Good theorymon. I see a full physical spread with volt switch/scald/heal bell or ice beam/ recover.

Extremespeed Hitmonlee- More of a buff for him, but not enough, sure it makes up for its low speed, but fighting types got shit on this gen with bird spam and psychic types running everywhere. Extrmemespeed doesn't let it get passed Slowbro, who counters him otherwise, and is probably one of the best physical walls out there. If you wanna run a late game cleaner, use lucario. As someone pointed out, it has a better move pool, better speed, and typing, so unless someone can prove otherwise, Hitmonlee doesn't get my vote.

Solid Rock Rhydon- I guess the theme for this slate is shit on bird spam. Rhydon+solid rock+eviolite=too much bulk, but it does lack recovery, but then again so does rhyperior, not much to say here, just a bulkier rhyperior.

Parting shot Absol- I like it. Parting shot is an interesting move that functions in a VoltTurn core, but lowers the targets attacking stats rather than chip damage, deffinantly a buff as Absol can grab momentum while forcing switches with offensive presence. My only problem is that if your opponent has bisharp, steer away from this cause of your opponent is smart, he can switch it In and grab a +3 attack boost, which will give you some trouble. None the less, great theory mon.

Overall nice theorymons, gonna have a hard time picking!

$0.02
 
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