Gen VII: Pokémon Sun and Moon (New info Post #5834)

[Nicki]

Where exactly would you put the 5th move in the UI?

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Where exactly would you put the 5th move in the UI?

I could see it on the left. That side is just very bare right now. I'm not saying that's what we should do, but it just felt...empty there.

 

[Eisen]

Remember the Mega Evolution button would be under the Fight menu, too. That's probably going to be in that space on the left.

 

[gabriel]

Where exactly would you put the 5th move in the UI?

On the same spot the mega evo button would be. Because if a pokemon can mega evolve, it won't have access to its most powerful move unless it's already mega evolved. And if it doesn't have a mega it could have such a move anyway. That's how I think it works with "burst moves" - is that how it's called? - in Pokken - could someone who's actually played the game explain that?

 

[Kurona]

On the same spot the mega evo button would be. Because if a pokemon can mega evolve, it won't have access to its most powerful move unless it's already mega evolved. And if it doesn't have a mega it could have such a move anyway. That's how I think it works with "burst moves" - is that how it's called? - in Pokken - could someone who's actually played the game explain that?

When a Pokemon goes into burst mode in Pokken, if it doesn't have a Mega, it essentially gets a powerful aura around it and all it's moves are more powerful or changed in some way - which is the same as the ones who burst to mega. And whether or not they are a mega, they can press the buttons they used to burst again to do a final smash-esque finishing move.

 

[Project_Mars]

On the same spot the mega evo button would be. Because if a pokemon can mega evolve, it won't have access to its most powerful move unless it's already mega evolved. And if it doesn't have a mega it could have such a move anyway. That's how I think it works with "burst moves" - is that how it's called? - in Pokken - could someone who's actually played the game explain that?

Isn't Burst Mode Pokken's Version of a Super Combo/Critical Art/High Damaging move that you need to spend time building up charge in a meter for? It's not really a needed thing for Megas.

 

[The Heartless Dictator]

Core Enforcer might work similarly to how Ice Burn and Freeze Shock worked and how they replaced Glaciate when you changed Kyurem to its respective forms. I don't know how they'd do it since 10% has used both Thousand Arrows and Thousand Waves, but it'd be a more logical way to handle it.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Core Enforcer might work similarly to how Ice Burn and Freeze Shock worked and how they replaced Glaciate when you changed Kyurem to its respective forms. I don't know how they'd do it since 10% has used both Thousand Arrows and Thousand Waves, but it'd be a more logical way to handle it.

Simple: Land's Wrath. Do we know that it has Land's Wrath as Perfect form? We know it has it as 10%.

 

[gabriel]

gabriel: Perhaps Thousand Waves/Arrows automagically transforms into Core Enforcer when it changes form?

Core Enforcer might work similarly to how Ice Burn and Freeze Shock worked and how they replaced Glaciate when you changed Kyurem to its respective forms. I don't know how they'd do it since 10% has used both Thousand Arrows and Thousand Waves, but it'd be a more logical way to handle it.

But how would that work if 10% Garde had both thousand waves/arrows? Would Zygarde simply lose a moveslot mid battle?

When a Pokemon goes into burst mode in Pokken, if it doesn't have a Mega, it essentially gets a powerful aura around it and all it's moves are more powerful or changed in some way - which is the same as the ones who burst to mega. And whether or not they are a mega, they can press the buttons they used to burst again to do a final smash-esque finishing move.

I see. My bet is - for the reasons stated above - that Gen VII will introduce some sort of final smash-esque move accessible to some Pokémon - like perfect Zygarde - only when in a certain mode/situation.

I still can't figure out how it'll interact with mega evolution or some other kind of evolution (which need to have something to set itself apart from the former). I guess that given what we currently know, we can but speculate wildly, which isn't the point of this thread.

 

[The Heartless Dictator]

Simple: Land's Wrath. Do we know that it has Land's Wrath as Perfect form? We know it has it as 10%.

I forgot that Zygarde had Land's Wrath, haha. Wow.

I'd imagine Complete form would still have that move, since it technically is still Zygarde, so it should still have the same move pool. Kyurem's forms share the same movepool with the exception of Fusion Bolt/Flare and the respective Burn/Shock moves.

Edit: Should have added a bit more to this.

If Complete does have Land's Wrath due to the default movepool, then I'd imagine that Core Enforcer would replace Land's Wrath when it changes into that form.

 

[Gabe]

Well, a lot of people have guessed that synchros get a fifth move. There is a spoiler about that going on the Internet.

If it's true, it sounds gimmicky.

 

[Siggu]

I would think adding Knock Off to that list would make it pretty beastly too. Stakeout seems like it would benefit from better prediction skills, but if it gets a good variety of Biting moves (Which it should) then Strong Jaw could be a bit more useful for more consistent damage, probably at the expense of being a pretty potent stallbreaker. Plus a wider movepool could only make it scarier to go against.

For that reason, I wonder if any other Pokemon are going to get Stakeout (Would be hilarious as a HA for the Rowlet line... but it'll probably get Early Bird or Insomnia for an HA.) since the power of it seems to, imo at least, depend on the offensive presence of the Pokemon with it without taking switches into account.

Well, Stakeout wouldn't be unfitting for an owl, but of course, so are other abilities, such as Keen Eye or Big Pecks.

That being said, and now that I'm thinking it a little more coldly, Pursuit would be too redundant with Stakeout, as it's already a really good trapper, albeit for the opposite reasons - with Pursuit, you don't want your current Pokemon to take high damage, while with Stakeout, you don't want your supposed check or counter take serious damage on the switch-in.

Supposing its evolution does get base offenses above 50 (Picking Azumarill as a benchmark), as well as at least decent Speed (Looks like the kind), I guess Choice or Life Orb 4 attack sets could be amazing. After all, it's carrying a pseudo-Shadow Tag.

 

[Norne]

It's more of a free analytic life orb when the opponent switches than a shadow tag.

It punishes a switch in, not restricting switching out.

Scarf seems gimmicky to this kind of Pokémon in my opinion as losing BP for speed if the opponent decides to stay in and locking yourself on a predicted switch hit can kill your own momentum hard.

 

[Siggu]

It's more of a free analytic life orb when the opponent switches than a shadow tag.

It punishes a switch in, not restricting switching out.

By punishing a switch in, it's restricting a switch out because you may rather revenge kill than have the thing that would force it out take heavy damage IMO. But it would depend on how good its coverage is.

 

[Project_Mars]

But how would that work if 10% Garde had both thousand waves/arrows? Would Zygarde simply lose a moveslot mid battle?

I think Zydoge will be something you get in the Post-Story. Meaning they can set it up so that, for instance, the Zydoge in Sun gets Thousand Arrows and the Zydoge in Moon gets Thousand Waves.

Alternatively: There's a place on one of the islands you take Zydoge to in order to switch between the two and it can only have one at a time.

Well, Stakeout wouldn't be unfitting for an owl, but of course, so are other abilities, such as Keen Eye or Big Pecks.

That being said, and now that I'm thinking it a little more coldly, Pursuit would be too redundant with Stakeout, as it's already a really good trapper, albeit for the opposite reasons - with Pursuit, you don't want your current Pokemon to take high damage, while with Stakeout, you don't want your supposed check or counter take serious damage on the switch-in.

Supposing its evolution does get base offenses above 50 (Picking Azumarill as a benchmark), as well as at least decent Speed (Looks like the kind), I guess Choice or Life Orb 4 attack sets could be amazing. After all, it's carrying a pseudo-Shadow Tag.

It would still need to be able to force Switch outs in order to get the best usage out of Stakeout though. It could actually work with more of a good neutral coverage vs phenomenal coverage (Ala Electrivire and his moveset that can hit 14 types for Super Effective damage) since doubling damage on a switch-in would still be pretty punishing off a more modest attack stat. The hard part would be figuring out how to force switches with a Pokemon everyone knows is gonna have Stakeout though. Knock Off and Thunder Wave are mainly the two options I can think of.

 

[PsychicAcademic]

I see Popplio learns Disarming Voice. I know that it doesn't mean it'll evolve into part-Fairy, but it increases the chance a little. I feel happy by that.

And then Battle Royale. This has been everyone's dream. Problem is... how will this thing be represented in the story or post-game? I can think this is difficult to fit into Battle Facilities (as if Battle House Singles isn't hard enough, I'd rather play Triples). I could only see this applied in PWT-like setting and online play.

I must be late by long....

 

[Nelson Tangela]

In before Stakeout is like Friend Guard and the mongoose evo gets a completely different Ability.

Also...

In before Yungoos turns out to be the long-awaited Zangoose prevo...


PS: Yes, I'm totally expecting this level of trolling from Gamefreak. I truly am.

 

[Sirya]

I mean, whatever comes in could be taking a 204 BP Return + STAB. That's Adaptability plus STAB on the switch.

 

[Siggu]

It would still need to be able to force Switch outs in order to get the best usage out of Stakeout though. It could actually work with more of a good neutral coverage vs phenomenal coverage (Ala Electrivire and his moveset that can hit 14 types for Super Effective damage) since doubling damage on a switch-in would still be pretty punishing off a more modest attack stat. The hard part would be figuring out how to force switches with a Pokemon everyone knows is gonna have Stakeout though. Knock Off and Thunder Wave are mainly the two options I can think of.

Yeah, that's what I meant. If its coverage is good enough, then a switch out is simply not going to happen due to the threat it carries - making it feel more like a pseudo-Shadow Tag, and the opposing Pokemon would be trapped in a potential lose-lose situation. If it has bad coverage... then I guess it will focus on chip damage.

 

[Pikachu315111]

*Comes back from work, sees 7 pages/160+ messages*

*Sigh* Let's get through them. Now I won't go indepth with my thoughts on the new stuff released right now, I'm going to do my video commentary that will have my thoughts in them. So let's get through the comments.

The effectiveness notifier is going to kill half the fun of Inverse Battles. :/

Unless they disable it just to screw with the player even more (I can just imagine some people getting so used to the reminders that they forget the more complicated type chart relations, and then they're removed and now have to struggle to remember something many knew by heart, lol).

They better buff Fury Attack.

Honestly many multi-strikes moves could use a redo, but that's neither here nor there.

Am I the only one disappointed with Battle Royale mode? Ending the battle as soon as a single player runs out of Pokemon goes against the point of a free-for-all imo

Yes and no, I can sort of see what they're going for by making who you go after being more strategic (knocking out one trainers meas you lose chance to knock out others, then again if you get the early lead you might want to try and end the battle early as everyone else tries to stop you. They want to make you think). But that all said it would be nice if they included a mode in Battle Royal which is last one standing wins.

It was literally like five posts above yours:

Hmm, isn't that "old" new? I remember commenting about it saying they would probably end up like Xerneas's Active Mode with maybe some plot significance.

The PCs' names are apparently Elio and Selene.

Elio = Italian for Helios which was the Greek's personification of the sun.
Selene = More apparent, Selene is the Greek's personification of the moon.

Surprised they went with Selene since its a bit close to Serena.

Oh yes. A little bit lowkey, but we have confirmation that the bracelets on the trainers' wrists are actually something. They aren't just for decoration.

I think that went without saying.

I haven't seen someone noticed it yet, but it seems that the experience scaling is back. Lvl 7 Popplio has gained 14xp against a lvl 3 trainer's Caterpie while a lvl 3 Ledyba has gained 69xp against a lvl 5 wild pikipek (which i would presume has a base xp close to pidgey). Without xp scaling, that would've been 25 for caterpie and 35 for pikipek (presuming base xp of pidgey)

Not really a surprise, when it was in Gen VI I think it was safe to assume it was a permanent feature.

Also, CONFIRMED: No Mega-Ledian or new evolved form of Ledian, or baby Ledyba.

Where was this confirmed? If its true, oh well, not that big of a loss though Ledian is one of those Pokemon who's hoping its Mega gives it some sort of niche to make it viable at least in the middle tiers.

Did anyone else scream when Yungoose was caught and then the screen switched to the Rotomdex so we couldn't see it's dex number?
It's probably #13 considering Pikpik's numbering and the fact it's likely the regional rodent... but my lord did I scream

I screamed but for a different reason: I wanted to see if how many evo stages it had.

Actually, I'm curious as to how Hidden Power will work with regards to it showing type effectiveness, since it's listed as Normal-type but can be anything other than Normal and Fairy. Since there are now NPCs in every game that tell you the Hidden Power type, I'd imagine the effectiveness indicator would work normally.

I hope this "fix" Hidden Power. Honestly, just let us choose the type we want it to be. Learning to breed for the Hidden Power you want is as easy as looking it online so you might as well cut out the middleman.

I like Yungoos.
I made a Yungoos Plushie already.
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Wow! That's pretty impressive (and fast). It's cute.

Yes it is dumbing it down, anything that removes the need for knowledge is dumbing the game down. Yes, other stuff can dumb it down more (look at gen 5 and all the free win mons in it) but that doesn't change the fact that it is clearly being dumb down. As far as your sister goes, that is her choice, I don't see why I should be okay with a game becoming worse for me because it becomes more appealing to her. Just as she doesn't need to accept my opinion if it makes the game worse for her (in this case that knowledge of the type chart should be on the player not given to you in game). As to the does it ruin the game for me, no, but hell yeah it makes it far worse for me. Part of the enjoyment I have had in the past was figuring out the typings of new mons, like I went quite the way in D/P before figuring out Stunky was part dark until I tried to hit it with a psychic move long after I battled my first one. Now it will tell me not to do this, therefor making the experience worse for me. I want to be punished if I don't know something, not told how to win the game.

Having basic information available isn't dumbing down, it's convenient. Am I dumb for choosing to use a calculator in my everyday life even though I know math? Know, it just helps me make decisions quicker. Knowing the type chart isn't part of the puzzle, it's knowing how to exploit it. It's having your Pokemon have the right moves for coverage and dealing with weaknesses, it's about having team members of different types to fill in gaps where you might be walled or against an unfavorable match-up.

Also have you looked at the type chart closely? There is some information which many people wouldn't even have fathomed to guess. Poison & Bug resists Fighting? Rock resists Poison? Bug resists Ground? Fighting, Poison, Ghost resist Bug? Fire resists Fairy? These are kind of odd match-ups and a single mess up can really cost you and makes the lose feel cheap instead of the opponent just being better prepared.

We don't fully understand how this works, but it involves 10% Zygarde having it's HP lowered in battle. But since Core Enforcer is an exclusive move, the dog won't know it until it changes forms in the middle of a battle, which means it has to be a fifth move that only shows up after the transformation.

Or it could work like Hoopa's Hyperspace Fury. Hoopa can have it, but it can't use it unless it goes Unbound. You can consider it another factor to the risk-reward for using Zygarde Complete, in order to use it and its powerful move you not only need to start as a weaker Zygarde 10% but you'll only be limited to 3 usable moves.

On the same spot the mega evo button would be. Because if a pokemon can mega evolve, it won't have access to its most powerful move unless it's already mega evolved. And if it doesn't have a mega it could have such a move anyway. That's how I think it works with "burst moves" - is that how it's called? - in Pokken - could someone who's actually played the game explain that?

That would be neat if a Mega Pokemon would be allowed to have an exclusive fifth move (placed where the Mega Evolve button would be after Mega Evolving), sort of further make up for it not being able to hold an item.

It would still need to be able to force Switch outs in order to get the best usage out of Stakeout though. It could actually work with more of a good neutral coverage vs phenomenal coverage (Ala Electrivire and his moveset that can hit 14 types for Super Effective damage) since doubling damage on a switch-in would still be pretty punishing off a more modest attack stat. The hard part would be figuring out how to force switches with a Pokemon everyone knows is gonna have Stakeout though. Knock Off and Thunder Wave are mainly the two options I can think of.

What about it learning Roar?

Phew, done, wasn't as bad as I thought it would. Later tonight or tomorrow I'll do my trailer look through and thoughts of released news. Seeya then!

 

[Kurona]

I see Popplio learns Disarming Voice. I know that it doesn't mean it'll evolve into part-Fairy, but it increases the chance a little. I feel happy by that.

And then Battle Royale. This has been everyone's dream. Problem is... how will this thing be represented in the story or post-game? I can think this is difficult to fit into Battle Facilities (as if Battle House Singles isn't hard enough, I'd rather play Triples). I could only see this applied in PWT-like setting and online play.

I must be late by long....

Very simply, just have you against three cpus. I'm not entirely sure I see why implementing it would be a problem.
And if it would, it doesn't need to be part of the main game. BW didn't featire triple/rotations particularly often, and many people forget this but before Emerald completely overhauled the trainers, Ruby/Sapphire had an atrociously low amount of double battles.

 

[Project_Mars]

I see Popplio learns Disarming Voice. I know that it doesn't mean it'll evolve into part-Fairy, but it increases the chance a little. I feel happy by that.

Seals Bark. I'm sure Disarming Voice is more of a flavor thing than anything. I won't say that it having a final evolution be Water/Fairy would be neat, but it's definitely too early to say.

Yeah, that's what I meant. If its coverage is good enough, then a switch out is simply not going to happen due to the threat it carries - making it feel more like a pseudo-Shadow Tag, and the opposing Pokemon would be trapped in a potential lose-lose situation. If it has bad coverage... then I guess it will focus on chip damage.

True, but there's possibly moves that could allow it to force opponents into a mostly lose-lose situation even with bad coverage. (I would expect it to have some trouble with Bulky Fighting, Rock, and Steel Types, especially Bulky Fighting Types.) Taunt and Knock Off are likely possibilities that might make it a decent stallbreaker. Thunder Wave could surprise and cripple checks... Those are really the main three that pop into my head tbh.

What about it learning Roar?

Doesn't Work, the switch out has to be the same turn as the attack. EDIT: Like a Reverse Pursuit, basically. EDIT2: i am probably overlooking what you are saying, and i apologize.

 

[Kurona]

Seals Bark. I'm sure Disarming Voice is more of a flavor thing than anything. I won't say that it having a final evolution be Water/Fairy would be neat, but it's definitely too early to say.


True, but there's possibly moves that could allow it to force opponents into a mostly lose-lose situation even with bad coverage. (I would expect it to have some trouble with Bulky Fighting, Rock, and Steel Types, especially Bulky Fighting Types.) Taunt and Knock Off are likely possibilities that might make it a decent stallbreaker. Thunder Wave could surprise and cripple checks... Those are really the main three that pop into my head tbh.

Doesn't Work, the switch out has to be the same turn as the attack.

I wouldn't just brush it off with "seals bark" because there's a ton of different sound-based moves they could have gone with here, with normal being the type that would fit that sort of flavour. Disarming Voice is a... Very specific move to learn, especially with that kind of coverage at that kind of level. There's especially precedence for starters learning moves of a type that will be their secondary later on - piplup with metal claw - so while I understand your hesitance, I just think this is a bit too specific to easily brush off. At the very least it makes the idea it'll be water/fairy much more likely.

 

[Nelson Tangela]

I wouldn't just brush it off with "seals bark" because there's a ton of different sound-based moves they could have gone with here, with normal being the type that would fit that sort of flavour. Disarming Voice is a... Very specific move to learn, especially with that kind of coverage at that kind of level. There's especially precedence for starters learning moves of a type that will be their secondary later on - piplup with metal claw - so while I understand your hesitance, I just think this is a bit too specific to easily brush off. At the very least it makes the idea it'll be water/fairy much more likely.

Charmander also learned Metal Claw in FRLG.

Chespin learned Rollout to deal with early game birds and bugs.

Maybe Popplio just needs Fairy-coverage to deal with Gym 1 or some early game threats..

 

[JTD783]

Charmander also learned Metal Claw in FRLG.

Maybe Popplio just needs Fairy-coverage to deal with Gym 1.

This is it- the dark-type gym we've all been waiting for!!!

In all seriousness, this scenario is definitely possible. However, it is true that Fairy-type moves don't see heavy distribution on Pokemon not part of said type. Maybe this is an attempt to break that pattern or maybe it will "confirm" Popplio's final stage. It should be interesting in any case, and personally, any coverage a Pokemon gets is worth it to me (looking at you, Serperior).

Hopefully people will be more open to Popplio after seeing this reveal; it could use some love.

Also, Emboar gets Rollout and Head Smash but (sadly) is Fire/Fighting, so there is essentially no confirmation of Water/Fairy, but I hope it ends up as true.