Pokémon Alola Marowak

[volx757]

You haven't listed a single relevant defensive threat.

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega: 218-260 (60 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega: 138-164 (38 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 154-183 (42.4 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 217-256 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 153-181 (36.4 - 43%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Landorus-Therian: 160-190 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Landorus-Therian: 114-135 (29.9 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock


Without Flare Blitz, you get stopped by Mega Venusaur, Hippowdon, and Landorus-T. You know, actual defensive threats.

Hell, you even struggle against Chansey.

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 258-304 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Ok but if you're using Alowak to try to stop fat grounds, or even mega-venu, you're using it wrong. Alowak doesn't stop defensive threats, it stops offensive threats, such as Tapu Koko, Genesect, Pheromosa, Magnezone, and any fighting/electric type without SE coverage, and so these calcs aren't really relevant to the meta. If any of these switches in, they're going to take a big chunk from Shadow Bone, and then you're going to switch out. Your calcs show that Alowak can't even OHKO any of thse with max attack blitz, so what's the point?

Save health, stick around longer, block more volt switches.

 

[Dragontamer]

Ok but if you're using Alowak to try to stop fat grounds, or even mega-venu, you're using it wrong. Alowak doesn't stop defensive threats, it stops offensive threats, such as Tapu Koko, Genesect, Pheromosa, Magnezone, and any fighting/electric type without SE coverage, and so these calcs aren't really relevant to the meta. If any of these switches in, they're going to take a big chunk from Shadow Bone, and then you're going to switch out. Your calcs show that Alowak can't even OHKO any of thse with max attack blitz, so what's the point?

Save health, stick around longer, block more volt switches.

The idea is that the opponent is U-Turning their Pheromosa and/or Genesect into Hippowdon and/or Venusaur. Like any good, decent opponent will do. Even Koko is begining to run either HP Ground or U-Turn to deal with Marowak.

Marowak can run enough speed to outrun Hippowdon, and even Venusaur (although it takes Jolly IIRC). So yes, you can specifically tailor your Marowak to deal with the Venusaur switchin through a combination of Flare Blitz and +Speed EVs.

Outspeeding + 2HKO means that the opponent's wall is dead. Then your sweeper comes in and cleans up. We're not at the point of the metagame where Venusaurs (or Hippowdons) are running speed creep quite yet... so I dunno about the long-term viability of +Speed Marowak. But in any case, its an option right now in my experience.

 

[volx757]

The idea is that the opponent is U-Turning their Pheromosa and/or Genesect into Hippowdon and/or Venusaur.

Like any good, decent opponent will do. Marowak can run enough speed to outrun Hippowdon, and even Venusaur (although it takes Jolly IIRC). So yes, you can specifically tailor your Marowak to deal with the Venusaur switchin through a combination of Flare Blitz and +Speed EVs.

It still doesn't work tho?

Your opponent has pheromosa in, you have something that is forced out by pheromosa.
You switch to the hard-counter to pheromosa, Alowak. Pheromosa clicked u-turn, and they go into hippo.
So now, you have in Alowak, they have in hippo.
You have to switch. I mean you can stay in, chunk the hippo for like 50% (Assuming you speed creeped it) and then KOd by EQ, but that's a waste of a mon. And hippos just gonna slack off later anyway.

Doesn't matter if you have fire punch or flare blitz in this situation, you're not clicking it. BUT, in other situations (phero HJK, koko volt switch, phero ice beam, magnezone volt switch, etc) Alowak is getting in for (basically) free, and then you get to fire off a Shadow Bone. Why shadow bone? Cause it has better coverage than either fire STAB, and knowing any good, decent opponent will switch out of your Alowak, you wanna hit the switch in hard regardless of what it is (except like chanseys and stuff).

That's how Alowak is played. You switch in on an immunity/resist, force the opposing mon out and hit the switch with shadow bone. Then you likely get out and come back on another volt switch later.

TL;DR Alowak will never be in a situation where it's taking on a fat ground type. Once you're both in, everything outspeeds you and all grounds OHKO with their EQs.
A 2HKO on MVenu isn't enough reason to run blitz.

Edit: venusaur like, isn't relevant to this mon. The only connection is that Alowak happens to have SE type on it. Also what good player u-turns into venusaur against alowak.


Edit 2: aha sry you updated your post so I respond.

"Outspeeding + 2HKO means that the opponent's wall is dead. Then your sweeper comes in and cleans up. We're not at the point of the metagame where Venusaurs (or Hippowdons) are running speed creep quite yet... so I dunno about the long-term viability of +Speed Marowak. But in any case, its an option right now in my experience."

I mean, ok technically yea marowak can be built to outspeed and ohko hippowdon. But should it be? Should you be shirking the incredible defensive utility against many of the metas top-tier threats so that you can.. 2HKO hippo? And kill yourself w recoil in the process?

 

[Dragontamer]

Your opponent has pheromosa in, you have something that is forced out by pheromosa.
You switch to the hard-counter to pheromosa, Alowak. Pheromosa clicked u-turn, and they go into hippo.

Yeah, that's why U-Turn and Volt Switch are good. You always have the right Pokemon out.

But lets say... Pheromosa goes for the Ice Beam as you switch in Wak. Now Pheromosa goes for the U-Turn a turn later and you have a 2HKO opportunity vs Hippowdon.

0 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Marowak-Alola: 66-78 (25.2 - 29.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 35-42 (13.4 - 16%) -- possible 7HKO

The opponent won't be using exclusively U-Turn against your team. Otherwise, you just stay in and beat the switch-in's face in. In any case, threatening the 2HKO helps here: I'm not seeing how extra HP EVs or Def EVs is really changing Pheromosa's poor situation vs Marowak here.

I mean, ok technically yea marowak can be built to outspeed and ohko hippowdon. But should it be? Should you be shirking the incredible defensive utility against many of the metas top-tier threats so that you can.. 2HKO hippo? And kill yourself w recoil in the process?

First of all, its "Outspeed and 2HKO Hippowdon". That guy is fat. I'm unsure if anything can OHKO Hippowdon from Marowak.

Second: yes? Adamant + 20 Speed EVs outspeed Hippowdon. You're not sacrificing very much to outspeed the Hippo and practically threaten the 2HKO. Things will change in a few months as people start to lol speed-creep with Hippowdon (it happens every generation...). But 20 Speed EVs is the very least Marowak should be running IMO.

Honestly, 44EVs (outrun Chansey) seems like the bare minimum really. But yeah, you really want Marowak to outrun the Hippo and threaten 2HKOs.

The only connection is that Alowak happens to have SE type on it.

Thick fat says "hi". If Venusaur is the opponent's tank, they may use it as an endgame wall vs Wak in the worst-case scenario. In any case, Mega-Venusaur is a shaky check, but still one that I can imagine getting used vs Marowak if the endgame conditions are right. In any case, without Flare Blitz, Mega-Venusaur stalls out Marowak. Marowak requires Flare Blitz to bust through that fat wall.

Marowak can't beat Mega-Venusaur with just Shadow Bone or Fire Punch. Mega-Venusaur is really, really fat, with access to Leech Seed and semi-reliable recovery (weather permitting). Some Mega-Venu run even Earthquake. Its got a good movepool, like any other Gen1 Pokemon.

I do understand that running Jolly 252+ Marowak seems silly, but outrunning Mega-Venusaur for the 2HKO can be important sometimes.

 

[volx757]

Yeah, that's why U-Turn and Volt Switch are good. You always have the right Pokemon out.

But lets say... Pheromosa goes for the Ice Beam as you switch in Wak. Now Pheromosa goes for the U-Turn and you have a 2HKO opportunity vs Hippowdon.

0 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Marowak-Alola: 66-78 (25.2 - 29.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 35-42 (13.4 - 16%) -- possible 7HKO

The opponent won't be using exclusively U-Turn against your team. Otherwise, you just stay in and beat the switch-in's face in. In any case, threatening the 2HKO helps here: I'm not seeing how extra HP EVs or Def EVs is really changing Pheromosa's situation vs Marowak here.



First of all, its "Outspeed and 2HKO Hippowdon". That guy is fat. I'm unsure if anything can OHKO Hippowdon from Marowak.

Second: yes? Adamant + 20 Speed EVs outspeed Hippowdon. You're not sacrificing very much to outspeed the Hippo and practically threaten the 2HKO. Things will change in a few months as people start to lol speed-creep with Hippowdon (it happens every generation...). But 20 Speed EVs is the very least Marowak should be running IMO.



Thick fat says "hi". If Venusaur is the opponent's tank, they may use it as an endgame wall vs Wak in the worst-case scenario. In any case, Mega-Venusaur is a shaky check, but still one that I can imagine getting used vs Marowak if the endgame conditions are right. In any case, without Flare Blitz, Mega-Venusaur stalls out Marowak. Marowak requires Flare Blitz to bust through that fat wall.

Marowak can't beat Mega-Venusaur with just Shadow Bone or Fire Punch. Mega-Venusaur is really, really fat.

Yes i mistyped about OHKO on hippo, I meant 2HKO. But the point still stands, why are you sacrificing alowak's defensive utility for 2 situational, potential 2HKOs on fat mons? Also, this is obviously just my own experience, but I've seen maybe like 2 hippos in SuMo so far. Do you really believe these 2HKOs are more important than longevity? For a tank that's rocks weak and has no recovery, not even lefties, you need every last bit of HP you can get.

I run 248HP/96ATK/96DEF/68SP (I believe the spread from his official analysis). This more meta-relevant spread (used with fire punch) outspeeds -speed celesteela, tanks ice beams/iron heads/moonblasts/uturns from phero/koko/gene better, and still hits quite hard (something like 460 attack i can't recall right now).

edit: 96+Atk

edit 2: just so i'm not flooding this thread with anymore posts i'll say here -
@below
idk, I mean if you really need a wallbreaker to take out venu and hippo and for some reason Alowak is the only fit for your team, sure, you can run blitz with a max attack spread and do a 1 for 1 trade with someone (rocks and recoil will kill you).
What I'm saying is this isn't Alowak's best role, and there are a number of far more effective wallbreakers you can run to kill hippo and venu. As I said initially, Alowak is a tank tailored to kill strong offensive threats that can't really touch it like fighting electric and bug types, not to beat defensive ones. The crazy attacking power is honestly just a perk courtesy of thicc club.

btw hippo isn't even ou
59 | Hippowdon | 2.95768% | 124935 | 3.167% | 103180 | 3.560%

 

[Dragontamer]

Yes i mistyped about OHKO on hippo, I meant 2HKO. But the point still stands, why are you sacrificing alowak's defensive utility for 2 situational, potential 2HKOs on fat mons? Also, this is obviously just my own experience, but I've seen maybe like 2 hippos in SuMo so far. Do you really believe these 2HKOs are more important than longevity? For a tank that's rocks weak and has no recovery, not even lefties, you need every last bit of HP you can get.

HP Evs do jack shit against Stealth Rocks. If rocks are down, Marowak's longevity is at best 4 switch-ins.

I run 248HP/96ATK/96DEF/68SP (I believe the spread from his official analysis). This more meta-relevant spread (used with fire punch) outspeeds -speed celesteela, tanks ice beams/iron heads/moonblasts/uturns from phero/koko/gene better, and still hits quite hard (something like 460 attack i can't recall right now).

0 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Marowak-Alola: 66-78 (25.2 - 29.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 35-42 (13.4 - 16%) -- possible 7HKO

248 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 57-67 (21.8 - 25.6%) -- 1.5% chance to 4HKO

252 SpA Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Marowak-Alola: 63-75 (24.1 - 28.7%) -- 98.8% chance to 4HKO

0/0 defenses Marowak easily counters your entire threat list... with Shadow Bone too. No need to waste HP from a Flare Blitz when Shadow Bone is good enough.

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Yes, upgrading from 3HKO Fire Punch vs Hippowdon / Mega-Venu / Landorous-T / Chansey to a 2HKO vs those defensive beasts with Flare Blitz seems like a good idea. Flare Blitz is not the first move you should be going for (even on a Flare Blitz set, you probably want to use Shadow Bone first), but its a threat that will remain throughout the game.

--------------

edit: 96+Atk

In my experience, this set will get walled... and walled pretty hard, especially if you have Fire Punch instead of Flare Blitz.

96+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 132-156 (36.3 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
96+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega: 116-140 (31.9 - 38.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 3HKO

Granted, Venusaur isn't doing much outside of the rare Earthquake set, but this demonstrates the raw defense of defensive teams.

96+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 159-187 (37.7 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Uggghhhh... Marowak is definitely kinda weak without that Flare Blitz. That's Sp. Def Mandibuzz, not even physical. At least Marowak has a 2HKO chance with Flare Blitz and Stealth Rocks.

Not that Marowak wants to stay in on the bird that has Knock Off and/or Foul Play and defenses up the wazzo and 80 base speed... but there are a LOT of defensive threats running around in my experience. Marowak wants the Flare Blitz to wallbreak them down.

-------

Who the hell are you using Fire Punch vs anyway?

 

[volx757]

Who the hell are you using Fire Punch vs anyway?

If you're advocating for blitz as a nuclear option, where you click SB and bonemerang most of the time, I can understand that. Especially against teams that don't carry any mons alowak hard counters. I use fire punch basically just on ferro/sciz and like, grass types which are uncommon.

 

[pika pal]

The problem to be considered here is that Alolawak's main offering is being a tank with both decent offenses and defensive utility thanks to its several resistances/immunities and Thick Club in combination. Building Alolawak to be outright offensive squanders the latter in my opinion, and calcing him against a lot of defensive Pokemon isn't necessarily going to prove much when Alolawak's primarily meant as an answer to mons found on offensive teams. Pheromosa, for example, is a cleaner and a scout, which doesn't offer much to teams that would use Hippowdon or Defensive Mega Venusaur, which are bulky mons for sure but also massive momentum eaters due to their slow nature and lack of real offensive presence, and I'm skeptical if you'd see defensive Landorus-T on those types of teams as well.

Alolawak's primary role isn't to get past defensive threats, it's to tank/block offensive threats and wear the opponent out over time with decent power and strong neutral STAB coverage. Flare Blitz simply cuts into that twofold since he not only has to run much more ATK EV's (cutting into valuable bulk investment) as well as the obvious recoil

252 SpA Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Marowak-Alola: 63-75 (24.1 - 28.7%) -- 98.8% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 112 SpD Marowak-Alola: 55-66 (17 - 20.4%) -- possible 5HKO

Tapu Koko obviously isn't winning 1 v 1 in this scenario, but the former Marowak loses a SR switch in altogether from Dazzling Gleam, meaning that he effectively can check Koko one time while rocks are down unless every other entry is on an outright immunity or he never comes in on hazards again. Chewing into your own health on a Hazard weak mon in general is just a bad idea, especially one like Alolawak who's supposed to tank hits compared to, say Zard-X who just needs to take one hit or two to set up and survive a sweep.

And against a Stall team, there's other factors to consider. Skarmory for example

16+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 170-204 (50.8 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 354-416 (105.9 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Seems like an improvement, but what is Skarmory going to do to significantly threaten Alolawak with the turn it would have in surviving the Fire Punch?
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 100-118 (31.8 - 37.5%) -- 89.6% chance to 3HKO

This is about the same amount of damage Alolawak loses to recoil from Flare Blitz against a full HP Skarmory. Skarmory's going to have Sturdy, so it's not even like you KO it before it gets a turn to throw down a layer of hazards since 0 Spe Skarm outspeeds a neutral Alolawak with any less than 200 Speed EVs. Skarmory can't use the 2HKO situation to Roost Stall Fire Punch since it has 16 PP to Fire Punch's 24, and Alolawak can fish for a burn during the PP Stall.

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 411-484 (64 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Chansey has nearly twice as much HP as you do, so even assuming it does no other damage to Alolawak, that Flare Blitz will take half of Alolawak's HP, and you lose a cumulative 2/3's of your health KO-ing with Flare Blitz, assuming you run 44 Speed EVs to creep Chansey so it can't spam Soft-Boiled in your face. Hell, this match up requires you to have the speed creep AND catch Chansey on the switch, because if it gets off a Soft-Boiled after the first Flare Blitz, your Wak literally cannot kill Chansey without two Max rolls (high rolls if you have Rocks up), and Alolawak flat out dies in the process, not even for any response, just for the massive amount of HP he tears through.


Alolawak's role is to respond to some high profile offensive threats, minimize their momentum grabs, and induce wear and tear so the rest of the team can finally break past them. Trying to make him a Wallbreaker trades his unique and useful niche for sub-par performance in what's honestly something of a very saturated role. It reminds me in a degree of Rotom-W in XY/ORAS: his role there was also to blanket check/tank specific offensive threats (in that case Birdspam) despite a lack of reliable recovery, and trying to perform other roles turned up underwhelming performance while also failing at the job he was called for in the first place

 

[Dragontamer]

Alolawak's role is to respond to some high profile offensive threats, minimize their momentum grabs, and induce wear and tear so the rest of the team can finally break past them. Trying to make him a Wallbreaker trades his unique and useful niche for sub-par performance in what's honestly something of a very saturated role. It reminds me in a degree of Rotom-W in XY/ORAS: his role there was also to blanket check/tank specific offensive threats (in that case Birdspam) despite a lack of reliable recovery, and trying to perform other roles turned up underwhelming performance while also failing at the job he was called for in the first place

I think I can understand your argument overall and do appreciate the breakdown.

My experience with Marowak has been to max out the attack and wallbreak with her. I've basically been relying on my Marowak to perform double-duty here. However, your example is kind of bad.

16+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 170-204 (50.8 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 354-416 (105.9 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Seems like an improvement, but what is Skarmory going to do to significantly threaten Alolawak with the turn it would have in surviving the Fire Punch?

Ehh? You assume Stealth Rocks for your 16+ Atk case, but then remove it to make some point about "Sturdy" in the 252+ Atk case. Furthermore, you say this is against a "Stall Team", but the best switchin they got is a Steel Pokemon vs your Fire Pokemon? I doubt Skarmory is really going to be switching in vs Marowak in any serious game.

The stall Pokemon of note (in this topic anyway) are what I've said earlier: Chansey, Mega-Venusaur, Hippowdon. Yes, Skarmory will be found on those teams, but they will be using their other Pokemon to (attempt to) check Marowak.

Chansey has nearly twice as much HP as you do, so even assuming it does no other damage to Alolawak, that Flare Blitz will take half of Alolawak's HP, and you lose a cumulative 2/3's of your health KO-ing with Flare Blitz, assuming you run 44 Speed EVs to creep Chansey so it can't spam Soft-Boiled in your face. Hell, this match up requires you to have the speed creep AND catch Chansey on the switch, because if it gets off a Soft-Boiled after the first Flare Blitz, your Wak literally cannot kill Chansey without two Max rolls (high rolls if you have Rocks up), and Alolawak flat out dies in the process, not even for any response, just for the massive amount of HP he tears through.

So hit it with Bonemerang first.

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 230-272 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

After the Bonemerang, the Flare Blitz KOs. You don't just stupidly throw away your HP to Flare Blitzing a Chansey. A bit of strategy (such as using Shadow Bone to break Sturdy vs Skarmory first or Bonemerang vs Chansey first) will save a lot of HP.

Lets break down Chansey's options. Certainly not Thunder Wave or Seismic Toss. So Chansey's only hope of victory is Toxic and Stalling.

Frankly, Fire Punch looks like it will be Toxic'd out and then stalled out. Bonemerang -> Flare Blitz threatens a KO each turn, so Chansey really can't afford to do anything but Softboiled every turn.

--------

I understand that there are faster wallbreakers out there: Choice Band... anything really (lets say Garchomp or Tyranitar). But Marowak can indeed function as a wallbreaker while still being a check on those other offensive types.

The question is what is more important to you (and your team).

* Checking Tapu Koko / Pheromosa / Genesect harder. +HP, +Def, and +Sp. Def help vs these `mon.

* Breaking through Stall teams (specifically: Chansey, Hippowdon, and Mega-Venusaur). +Atk and +Speed helps here.

 

[Unyubaby]

With how strong a lot of Marowak's opposition is, Flare Blitz doesn't exactly hurt it since Marowak's not going to be staying for long regardless. Fire Punch is safer, yes, but just doesn't have the... the... goddammit, you're making me do this, the punch that Flare Blitz has. So I'd agree with Flare Blitz over Fire Punch.

 

[pika pal]

The issue being made was more along the lines that Alolawak's defensive niche is very unique to it, whereas the wall/stall breaking role you're describing for it is very easily substituted: Kyurem-B, Tapu-Lele, Gengar, Hoopa-U, just to name some common/viable choices. I don't see the reason to compromise Alolawak's unique role (and one that frankly it seems much better at) to perform something other teamslots could fill for the team instead.

The point of the Chansey comparison wasn't "you can beat it with Fire Punch" it was "even if you win, Flare Blitz eats half your health netting the KO in the most common 'favorable' outcome". Using a recoil move to KO Chansey, a mon whose selling point is a ludicrous HP stat, is quite literally suicide. Even if you choose to employ Alolawak as a Wallbreaker, breaking Chansey with him is a terrible idea. Chansey literally has to do nothing but get hit by Flare Blitz to essentially cripple Alolawak, even in the scenario where it takes the Bonemerang. Stall Teams are designed to switch around and deal with offensive power until they can wear them down or cripple them, and Alolawak's complete lack of recovery and extreme hazard weakness makes him very easy to shave health off of, doubly so when it's actually so slow that it needs to Speed creep walls and in turn can't outrun typical Stall benchmarks, including several defensive mons with no investment such as Venusaur, Heatran, Landorus-Therian (who proceeds to murder you with Earthquake when Flare Blitz fails to KO above 50%).

0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 272-324 (83.9 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Rock Head can solve the recoil issue, but at that point you've completely abandoned one of the traits that makes Alolawak work so well in OU: one among its myriad of immunities.

More than anything, I just have yet to see a real reason why Wallbreaker Alolawak is a particularly notable set in the state OU is in, what metagame trends make me want to use it in this role over other wallbreakers and at the cost of one of the most effective blanket checks the tier has to offer.

With how strong a lot of Marowak's opposition is, Flare Blitz doesn't exactly hurt it since Marowak's not going to be staying for long regardless. Fire Punch is safer, yes, but just doesn't have the... the... goddammit, you're making me do this, the punch that Flare Blitz has. So I'd agree with Flare Blitz over Fire Punch.

But that's the thing, Alolawak's one of the few mons that can reliably deal with some of this strong opposition because of the strong combination of its typing and Lightning Rod, so it wants bulk to do that better. If a mon requires Alolawak to have Flare Blitz > Fire Punch in order to reliably win, it's probably in your best interest to have some other response to it than shifting investment or stacking recoil on your tank mon. Mons that run Recoil moves have to either have other presence to make the most of it (Talonflame's priority in Gen 6), other options to rely on as their primary damage and/or recovery to patch up (Zard-X), or just be designed to hit so damn fast and/or hard that they never concern themselves with staying alive in the first place (Staraptor, Band Wood Hammer Tapu Bulu).


Flare Blitz on Alolawak seems like trying to get it to do too much and compromising its performance in the role that makes it a consideration for most teams in the first place.

 

[Dragontamer]

in turn can't outrun typical Stall benchmarks, including several defensive mons with no investment such as Venusaur, Heatran, Landorus-Therian (who proceeds to murder you with Earthquake when Flare Blitz fails to KO above 50%).

Note: Jolly 252+ Marowak does indeed outrun Mega-Venusaur and Heatran. So you can in fact outrun the Stall Benchmarks: Hippowdon, Chansey, Venusaur, Heatran, Skarmory.

Landorus-T / Gliscor are too fast though, even at 0 speed.

The point of the Chansey comparison wasn't "you can beat it with Fire Punch" it was "even if you win, Flare Blitz eats half your health netting the KO in the most common 'favorable' outcome". Using a recoil move to KO Chansey, a mon whose selling point is a ludicrous HP stat, is quite literally suicide. Even if you choose to employ Alolawak as a Wallbreaker, breaking Chansey with him is a terrible idea. Chansey literally has to do nothing but get hit by Flare Blitz to essentially cripple Alolawak, even in the scenario where it takes the Bonemerang. Stall Teams are designed to switch around and deal with offensive power until they can wear them down or cripple them, and Alolawak's complete lack of recovery and extreme hazard weakness makes him very easy to shave health off of, doubly so when it's actually so slow that it needs to Speed creep walls and in turn can't outrun typical Stall benchmarks, including several defensive mons with no investment such as Venusaur, Heatran, Landorus-Therian (who proceeds to murder you with Earthquake when Flare Blitz fails to KO above 50%).

I understand that. Obviously hitting Chansey with recoil moves is a bad situation to be in. But building Marowak to be a secondary Wallbreaker can give you some options. Like you can play your other wallbreaker more aggressively, knowing that Marowak can come in the late game to break a Chansey stall.

The first choice of KOing Chansey (or really, most of the defensive mons) is a high-power non-recoil attacker like Band Garchomp Earthquake or Terrakion Close Combat whatnot. So I agree with you that recoil is not the best option.

But its an option if you needed it. And that's better to outright losing to Chansey's Toxic.

 

[Banryu]

Without Flare Blitz, you get stopped by Mega Venusaur, Hippowdon, and Landorus-T. You know, actual defensive threats.

Hell, you even struggle against Chansey.

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 258-304 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

THANK you.

Now that you mention it, I seem to recall Chansey being one of the Pokemon that Fire Punch Wak couldn't do $#!7 against.

Flare Blitz on Alolawak seems like trying to get it to do too much and compromising its performance in the role that makes it a consideration for most teams in the first place.

You're thinking of Marowak as a tank, which it is-- sort of. The problem is that Marowak's longevity is already somewhat dubious when Rocks are on the field, it having no recovery outside of Grassy Terrain / Wish support, etc.

To me, Alolawak is about 2 things: 1) walling key threats that his type/resistance allow for, and 2) bashing as many skulls as possible before inevitably going down.

Rare are the matches when my Alolawak lives to the see the end of a match, but rarer are the matches where it doesn't take out several key threats that my team needs removed in the process (usually due to me misplaying/predicting poorly/etc). So long as I don't still need to for walling, I'm more than happy to let it go out in a blaze of glory so long as it takes something with it. Nuking Chansey to help clear the way for my sweepers is 100% worth it to me, and it simply can't do that with Fire Punch without carrying a niche move like Focus Punch or something.

 

[Steel With It]

I think that Flare Blitz vs Fire Punch depends more on your set than anything else. For example, I run the 248 HP/128 Atk/132 Spe Adamant set, which OHKOs 248 HP Celesteela with Blitz but only 2HKOs with Punch, making Blitz more or less necessary unless you want to eat an Earthquake.

 

[Marzbar]

I too would like to know why anyone is bothering to do Flare Blitz vs Fire Punch calculations against defensive tanks such as Landorus-T, Mega Venusaur, Hippowdon and Chansey. When would you EVER leave your A-Wak in against these Pokemon when they threaten to KO you and you can't even KO them in return???? And even if you HAD to for whatever reason, wouldn't Shadow Bone be better in every case apart from Chansey?

I thought A-Marowak was for stopping Pheromosa, Xurkitree, Kartana, Raichu, Magnezone, Tapu Koko, Genesect, Buzzwole and Scizor. This is what it's been proven to be effective at. And guess what, I don't see Landorus-T, M-Venusaur, Hippowdon or Chansey on that list.

 

[Dragontamer]

I too would like to know why anyone is bothering to do Flare Blitz vs Fire Punch calculations against defensive tanks such as Landorus-T, Mega Venusaur, Hippowdon and Chansey. When would you EVER leave your A-Wak in against these Pokemon when they threaten to KO you and you can't even KO them in return???? And even if you HAD to for whatever reason, wouldn't Shadow Bone be better in every case apart from Chansey?

You leave it in because Jolly Marowak can outspeed all of these (except Lando-T) and 2HKO with Flare Blitz.

Now look Marzbar: I think Pika Pal made a very strong argument above, so I was mostly cool with letting the argument fade away in Pika Pal's favor. However, don't get cocky here. Shadow Bone is insufficient to 2HKO Hippowdon. While Flare Blitz is a 2HKO option.

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 153-181 (36.4 - 43%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 217-256 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Hell, Shadow Bone + Flare Blitz will reach 88% damage on Hippowdon all the time, while Shadow Bone x2 will not. So Shadow Bone + Flare Blitz in combination will allow you to achieve a "1x Spikes assisted 2HKO"

I've already run the calcs earlier in this thread. Pika Pal has read my argument and clearly understood what I said earlier. Which is why I was fine with things ending on his post above. But don't bring up falsehoods in this argument.

Marowak CAN go for the 2HKO (or even the Shadow Bone + Spikes + Flare Blitz KO) vs Hippowdon. Its quite feasible, and Flare Blitz and 252+ Atk puts it over the edge. Marowak can function as a Wallbreaker if necessary for your team composition.

The argument vs Venusaur is harder, because Marowak-A has to run 252+ Jolly to outspeed Venusaur. Still, as a surprise move and/or lure, you can use a max-252+ Jolly Marowak-A to 2HKO Venusaur-Mega (again, using Shadow Bone + Flare Blitz. Shadowbone x2 is insufficient to KO Mega-Venu).

---------------

Pika Pal is arguing that wallbreaker Marowak, while feasible, seems suboptimal in the face of Tapu Lele and other wallbreakers. Which is a better argument than you were attempting to make.

 

[Sun King]

Really, pika pal and Vertex said it best; the opportunity cost of running wall breaking sets is way too high. It's kind of like being offered the chance to steal $1,000,000 and being offered a job that pays $1,000,000; sure, stealing makes you a millionaire, but why add on additional risks/costs when you can just make your million safely?

Sacrificing such a big chunk of health to break one wall when you could sacrifice none with a better suited Pokemon is senseless to me. Like, yeah it surprises the opponent, but at the end of the day, you're making your team much weaker against the rest of the metagame.

 

[nameless90]

Sacrificing such a big chunk of health to break one wall when you could sacrifice none with a better suited Pokemon is senseless to me. Like, yeah it surprises the opponent, but at the end of the day, you're making your team much weaker against the rest of the metagame.

This consideration leads me to think about another question: is really Alolan Marowak A- rank*?

I am very on the fence about the Fire Punch or Flare Blitz choice, but one choice makes more sense for me.
The first one is safer and let you use Lightning Rod (too bad it isn't Motor Drive...), whereas the latter can break through some tanks thanks to the higher base power + the brokenness of Thick Club.

I think that...Flare Blitz + Lighting Rod seems the best set-up (even for the offensive set) for me for two reasons.
Rock Head is clearly useful, but this means you have to give up the possibility to eat Electric attacks without losing health, thus preventing you from being worn down by an entire type (making opposite Volt Switches useless). Rock Head is useful only with Flare Blitz, stop.

Flare Blitz has a higher base power than Fire Punch's one and this fact, combined with Thick Club, really makes the difference breaking slow monsters.

A-Marowak has, in my opinion, to do this: soft check a threat and click Flare Blitz/another move towards an opponent slower than itself killing itself in the process.


* A really high rank for an anti-metagame pokemon and I think it is too high even before the bans of some broken pokemon (which will happen for sure) Marowak is supposed to check.

 

[volx757]

This consideration leads me to think about another question: is really Alolan Marowak A- rank*?

I am very on the fence about the Fire Punch or Flare Blitz choice, but one choice makes more sense for me.
The first one is safer and let you use Lightning Rod (too bad it isn't Motor Drive...), whereas the latter can break through some tanks thanks to the higher base power + the brokenness of Thick Club.

I think that...Flare Blitz + Lighting Rod seems the best set-up (even for the offensive set) for me for two reasons.
Rock Head is clearly useful, but this means you have to give up the possibility to eat Electric attacks without losing health, thus preventing you from being worn down by an entire type (making opposite Volt Switches useless). Rock Head is useful only with Flare Blitz, stop.

Flare Blitz has a higher base power than Fire Punch's one and this fact, combined with Thick Club, really makes the difference breaking slow monsters.

A-Marowak has, in my opinion, to do this: soft check a threat and click Flare Blitz/another move towards an opponent slower than itself killing itself in the process.


* A really high rank for an anti-metagame pokemon and I think it is too high even before the bans of some broken pokemon (which will happen for sure) Marowak is supposed to check.

This isn't the optimal usage of Alowak, and neglects it's relative sustainability in exchange for essentially a suicide nuke-mon. There are many, many OP wallbreakers to choose from in OU (especially as more megas get re-released), and Alowak just can't compete with them, mostly because others have some combination of bulk/setup/speed that outclasses Alowak in this regard.

However, the tankier lightning rod + fire punch set can counter what it's supposed to counter multiple times in a match. How are you gonna counter Tapu Koko late-game when you traded your Alowak for one of your opponents walls in the early game?

A-Marowak has, in my opinion, to do this: soft check a threat and click Flare Blitz/another move towards an opponent slower than itself killing itself in the process."

Alowak has, imo, to do this: hard counter a threat and click thicc-club boosted shadow bone to smack the switch in. Get out, do it again later.

As to the question is this really A- rank, yes, at this point in time it certainly is. If/when gene is banned, that'll hurt alowak's viability a bit. If koko/phero usage drops for some reason, that'll hurt alowak's viability, but right now, this mon hard counters a few of the most dangerous pokes in the meta, while dishing out very respectable damage in the process.

I think this discussion is a bit off because those arguing in favor of blitz (to my understanding) aren't saying 'use blitz all the time,' they're saying use shadow bone all the time (which those in favor of punch say as well), BUT when the situation arises, say an opportunity for a surprise KO or saccing yourself cause you know you're about to die anyway, then you use blitz. I understand this viewpoint, because we all agree that shadow bone is by far your most used move, however personally I would still run fire punch because the uncommon cases i do click fire STAB, fire punch will do what I need (i.e. i'm not trying to 2hko walls, I'm hitting something fire-weak that has some prior or whatever cause fire punch would hit harder than shadow bone in that case).

 

[Dragontamer]

Really, pika pal and Vertex said it best; the opportunity cost of running wall breaking sets is way too high. It's kind of like being offered the chance to steal $1,000,000 and being offered a job that pays $1,000,000; sure, stealing makes you a millionaire, but why add on additional risks/costs when you can just make your million safely?

Sacrificing such a big chunk of health to break one wall when you could sacrifice none with a better suited Pokemon is senseless to me. Like, yeah it surprises the opponent, but at the end of the day, you're making your team much weaker against the rest of the metagame.

You do realize that Flare Blitz Marowak does in fact click "Shadow Bone" 90% of the time, just like the Fire Punch Marowak? The question is who are you aiming for the minority of situations where you need to use the Fire attack? As noted, Skarm is basically a tie. +Speed Marowak Flare Blitz will outspeed and OHKO Skarm (although Sturdy needs to be broken). But Skarm's Brave Bird will do roughly the same damage as Flare Blitz's recoil.

Fire Punch is better for Ferrothorn, who stacks up the recoil damage. And Mega-Scizor too.

Flare Blitz does better for Mega-Venu, Hippowdon, and Chansey. And no, I'm not advocating suiciding against the opponent's tank in the early game. I'm saying you keep the Flare Blitz as a late-game option until after Wak is either too low in HP to effectively counter, OR the opposing threat-mon have been taken care of. Besides, you're using Shadow Bone most of the time anyway, unless the opponent brings in Skarm (see above), or Ferrothorn. Flare Blitz is here to stop the "wall-of-Toxic death" that Chansey threatens vs teams who have lost their wallbreaker. Ditto with Mega-Venu and Hippo.

So as far as I can tell, you are running Fire Punch for Ferrothorn and Mega-Scizor, and that's about it. Maybe Tapu Bulu as well, but I severely doubt that your opponent will be throwing these Pokemon against Marowak.

252 Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 178-211 (51.7 - 61.3%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Maybe not, Tapu Bulu seems handled by Shadow Bone anyway, which really makes me question what the point of Fire Punch is.

It comes back to my fundamental question: I've stated who my threat-list of Flare Blitz is. You may think it silly or whatever, but that's my argument. Run Flare Blitz for Mega-Venusaur, Hippowdon and Chansey.

Your turn. Who are you running Fire Punch against? And yes, it seems to be exclusively for Ferrothorn and Mega-Scizor. But I honestly expect more from my opponent. I reject the previous argument of "Fire Punch vs Chansey" as that seems to lose to Toxic. In the vast majority of cases, Fire Punch is straight up inferior to Shadow Bone and Bonemerang.

 

[Sun King]

This consideration leads me to think about another question: is really Alolan Marowak A- rank*?


* A really high rank for an anti-metagame pokemon and I think it is too high even before the bans of some broken pokemon (which will happen for sure) Marowak is supposed to check.

To answer the first part: Yes. The degree to which Alolan Marowak hampers Volt-Turn playstyles is high enough that I would support that ranking. Quad resisting Bug and being immune to Electric is freaking awesome.

To respond to the second section I'm quoting: Heatran has consistently ranked A- or higher in every OU metagame since its introduction, and has always been one of the most anti-meta Pokes.

EDIT: I didn't refresh the thread, so I didn't see this. I'll respond here.

You do realize that Flare Blitz Marowak does in fact click "Shadow Bone" 90% of the time, just like the Fire Punch Marowak? The question is who are you aiming for the minority of situations where you need to use the Fire attack? As noted, Skarm is basically a tie. +Speed Marowak Flare Blitz will outspeed and OHKO Skarm (although Sturdy needs to be broken). But Skarm's Brave Bird will do roughly the same damage as Flare Blitz's recoil.

Fire Punch is better for Ferrothorn, who stacks up the recoil damage. And Mega-Scizor too.

Flare Blitz does better for Mega-Venu, Hippowdon, and Chansey. And no, I'm not advocating suiciding against the opponent's tank in the early game. I'm saying you keep the Flare Blitz as a late-game option until after Wak is either too low in HP to effectively counter, OR the opposing threat-mon have been taken care of. Besides, you're using Shadow Bone most of the time anyway, unless the opponent brings in Skarm (see above), or Ferrothorn. Flare Blitz is here to stop the "wall-of-Toxic death" that Chansey threatens vs teams who have lost their wallbreaker. Ditto with Mega-Venu and Hippo.

So as far as I can tell, you are running Fire Punch for Ferrothorn and Mega-Scizor, and that's about it. Maybe Tapu Bulu as well, but I severely doubt that your opponent will be throwing these Pokemon against Marowak.

It comes back to my fundamental question: I've stated who my threat-list of Flare Blitz is. You may think it silly or whatever, but that's my argument. Run Flare Blitz for Mega-Venusaur, Hippowdon and Chansey.

Your turn. Who are you running Fire Punch against? And yes, it seems to be exclusively for Ferrothorn and Mega-Scizor. But I honestly expect more from my opponent. I reject the previous argument of "Fire Punch vs Chansey" as that seems to lose to Toxic. In the vast majority of cases, Fire Punch is straight up inferior to Shadow Bone and Bonemerang.

So basically, the shift from bulk to power is what I'm talking about. Yes, 90% of the time you are clicking Shadow Bone. But, to counter you, 100% of the reason I'm running Alolan Marowak is to hamper Volt-Turn, not to wall break. So my priorities for Marowak--and I think they align with Marowak's strengths--are keeping it alive. I can understand that you might like the idea of role-compression, and I guess you can use your set if you really think your team NEEDS it. But it circles back to the argument that Marowak's best use is switching in to reduce the effectiveness of Volt-Turn.

 

[Dragontamer]

So basically, the shift from bulk to power is what I'm talking about. Yes, 90% of the time you are clicking Shadow Bone. But, to counter you, 100% of the reason I'm running Alolan Marowak is to hamper Volt-Turn, not to wall break. So my priorities for Marowak--and I think they align with Marowak's strengths--are keeping it alive. I can understand that like the idea of role-compression, and I guess you can use your set if you really think your team NEEDS it. But it circles back to the argument that Marowak's best use is switching in to reduce the effectiveness of Volt-Turn.

I can accept this answer.

 

[Marzbar]

You leave it in because Jolly Marowak can outspeed all of these (except Lando-T) and 2HKO with Flare Blitz.

Now look Marzbar: I think Pika Pal made a very strong argument above, so I was mostly cool with letting the argument fade away in Pika Pal's favor. However, don't get cocky here. Shadow Bone is insufficient to 2HKO Hippowdon. While Flare Blitz is a 2HKO option.

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 153-181 (36.4 - 43%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 217-256 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Hell, Shadow Bone + Flare Blitz will reach 88% damage on Hippowdon all the time, while Shadow Bone x2 will not. So Shadow Bone + Flare Blitz in combination will allow you to achieve a "1x Spikes assisted 2HKO"

I've already run the calcs earlier in this thread. Pika Pal has read my argument and clearly understood what I said earlier. Which is why I was fine with things ending on his post above. But don't bring up falsehoods in this argument.

Marowak CAN go for the 2HKO (or even the Shadow Bone + Spikes + Flare Blitz KO) vs Hippowdon. Its quite feasible, and Flare Blitz and 252+ Atk puts it over the edge. Marowak can function as a Wallbreaker if necessary for your team composition.

The argument vs Venusaur is harder, because Marowak-A has to run 252+ Jolly to outspeed Venusaur. Still, as a surprise move and/or lure, you can use a max-252+ Jolly Marowak-A to 2HKO Venusaur-Mega (again, using Shadow Bone + Flare Blitz. Shadowbone x2 is insufficient to KO Mega-Venu).

---------------

Pika Pal is arguing that wallbreaker Marowak, while feasible, seems suboptimal in the face of Tapu Lele and other wallbreakers. Which is a better argument than you were attempting to make.

I don't even think you are understanding my argument. I don't care about the calculations for 2HKO'ing Hippowdon. You still haven't explained WHY you are leaving in your A-Marowak against Hippowdon in the first place! "Because it's faster" is not a good enough reason. It's probably going to eat an Earthquake and then you've lost your Marowak's ability to tank for the rest of the matchup. I mean come on, you are using Spikes damage to justify your argument for a 2HKO. That's clutching at straws and you know it. Since when is a layer of Spikes always assumed?

I have nothing against Flare Blitz. Slash it as an option. I just don't think you can use your argument to justify why.

 

[pika pal]

I do wanna make mention, Marowak has been stated to be capable of running 252/252 Jolly for Wallbreaking sets, but all of the calcs posted for walls like Hippowdon and Mega Venusaur are using Adamant.

252 Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 198-234 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery.

That's not quite as secure for Marowak considering hazard vulnerability means he needs to make the most of whatever attacks a Wallbreaking set would get. Granted, this is the one major case where that comes up, but I want to stress that even if you choose to run Marowak as a Wallbreaker, do NOT run it with a Jolly nature. Thick Club means you lose out on MUCH more power than the average Pokemon by forfeiting the positive nature, and quite frankly, when a mon is so slow that it has to invest rather than creep to outrun 0 Speed Skarmory, you're better off focusing on the job it does better with its other stats.


Flare Blitz isn't totally unviable, but Alolan Marowak as a Wallbreaker when is so dependent on that move and lacks any form of recovery. When the list is Hippowdon, Mega Venusaur, and Chansey as the primary targets, there's not exactly a shortage of mons that deal with 2/3 if not all those Walls in OU, whether through Wallbreaking or Stall Breaking: Hoopa-U (easy answer admittedly), Band/Sub Kyurem-Black, Gengar, Zygarde, Mega Pinsir, Tapu Lele, Band Tapu Bulu, and who knows what else people can find. Some old mons also gained lure options through Z-Moves, such as Gyarados or Lando-T with Supersonic Skystrike to lure Mega Venusaur.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 289-342 (68.8 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 195-229 (46.4 - 54.5%) -- 57.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 286-337 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 570-672 (88.7 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 152-179 (41.8 - 49.3%) -- 22.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery (Not quite win 1v1 full health, but that's a healthy chunk to take out

The pressing questions I still don't feel I've been given an answer I accept with this set remains: What incentive is there to using Wallbreaker Alolawak that justifies losing both the anti-meta tank set that made it OU, and what of significant value does it bring in the role for an OU team that I could not manage to achieve using another Wallbreaker or tweaking another member or two of my team?

 

[G0tagofast]

Marowaks Niche its that its not another passive tank, its a powerfull tank that checks the plethorra of ou offensive threats and punishes hard cause it 2Kos the entire meta thanks to its raw power (which by the way if you lack flare Blitz lando easily comes more than one time), also vs stall the recoil doesnt matter cause in that Match up marowak is not supposed to tank but its supposed to break by itself or help to break stall teams making the job of other breakers easyer.