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NP: UU - Silent Night
- Thread starter reachzero
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I was all for testing BLs in some future containing a balanced UU months ago, but now it seems to me like there's good reason to believe that all of the BLs are still broken for the same reasons. That and I think that we should have some semblance of a balanced Generation IV UU soon.
The only problem with that is that, if anything like Heracross drops down or Uxie goes up, there's a huge metagame shift and it becomes unbalanced.
Lol at crobat retesting...bitch is still gonna fuck shit up. The main cores are milotic/venusaur and whatever else...crobat just taunts and attacks them bitches to death. Please don't. I hated that thing out of sheer annoyance.
I think the message we need is:
Hey, UU kids! Remember Golbat from Victory Road and how it annoyed the hell out of you and killed half your team? That's basically what Crobat is! Don't let it back into UU!
I do think retesting some of the lower BLs like Staraptor (I believe it was the least used in standard in June) might be a good idea though.
You don't wanna retest Crobat but you want to retest Staraptor. Are you out of your mind? Staraptor 2HKO's everything in the tier with just two moves - compare it to Salamence in OU. Yeah, Staraptor isn't gonna be retested, and if it is, it will be banned faster than Cresselia was.
Crobat, on the other hand, is extremely viable as a retest option. UU has become more of a stable metagame as opposed to when Crobat was tested, and there are plenty of things that now threaten Crobat that aren't on Stall teams, including Rhyperior and Aggron. Crobat would also be the very best Venusaur check, as it doesn't take as much damage as Arcanine does from LO Sludge Bomb and is completely immune to Earthquake.
I've been a proponent of retesting Crobat for quite some time in #stark, I think something should be done about the proposal.
I simply gave Staraptor as an example and pointed out its low usage. Looking back on it, I should probably have cited some other BL pokemon. Abomasnow, maybe? It's a possibility with all the Fire-types running around and a Stealth Rock weakness. Sorry for suggesting Staraptor, I'm relatively new to UU.
Damn, this always happens.
I think retesting Crobat is a great idea as it is not so clearly broken compared to Pokemon such as Staraptor, Yanmega, and Cresselia. Crobat could really find a useful niche in the metagame that could help stabilize Venusaur as Twist of Fate said, but also add some spice to the metagame.
Not to mention IF Heracross drops down it will be monumental in become a counter to it having a 4x resistance to Close Combat as well as resisting Megahorn and being able to KO back with Brave Bird.
Not to mention IF Heracross drops down it will be monumental in become a counter to it having a 4x resistance to Close Combat as well as resisting Megahorn and being able to KO back with Brave Bird.
All this talk of Crobat is making me excited, hehehe. Hopefully this doesn't end in an anti-climatic fashion. At least I won't have to work around with my crazy Golbat again.
EDIT: But then I remember Crobat's been banned twice already, and technically not to be tested again. (IGNORE THIS)
EDIT2: Nope, my bad. It went "Limbo" the first time. Sorry.
EDIT: But then I remember Crobat's been banned twice already, and technically not to be tested again. (IGNORE THIS)
EDIT2: Nope, my bad. It went "Limbo" the first time. Sorry.
Nope, just the one time. It was nominated the first time but found not broken. Only the second time around did it receive enough votes to be BL. (I don't remember if it had a supermajority or not though)
I would be all for testing Crobat, especially since I thought it wasn't even broken in the first place, but it'll become several times more annoying due to Super Fang. Things like Rhyperior that are supposed to be solid switch-ins suddenly lose 50% switching in, while everything else has to deal with Taunt + Brave Bird + Roost? Not looking forward to it. I would still be in favor of a retest, but we'll definitely have to prepare for the possibility of a quick boot.
I would be all for testing Crobat, especially since I thought it wasn't even broken in the first place, but it'll become several times more annoying due to Super Fang. Things like Rhyperior that are supposed to be solid switch-ins suddenly lose 50% switching in, while everything else has to deal with Taunt + Brave Bird + Roost? Not looking forward to it. I would still be in favor of a retest, but we'll definitely have to prepare for the possibility of a quick boot.
Yeah, Crobat was found BL in a massive supermajority (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58797). I would love to have Crobat retested, but I don't fancy the idea of reopening the door to Pokemon like Abomasnow and Staraptor (unless retesting, assuming it does happen, is arbitrary and/or based on reasoning rather than something purely objective).
Werent bls only retested because they werent banned by a supermajority, and thus retested under new Smogon tiering rules?
If so, that automatcally opens the doors for Staraptor and Obama testing, like the last BL dropouts, and UU becomes a clusterfuck again. Darn bureaucracy
If so, that automatcally opens the doors for Staraptor and Obama testing, like the last BL dropouts, and UU becomes a clusterfuck again. Darn bureaucracy
The metagame will only shift in response to Heracross if Hera does not end up in BL. I'm all for Hera getting his chance at UU, but I have to admit, his chances don't look good.
Uxie leaving seems to pose little problem. Mesprit can take over many of her roles, and the metagame will quickly adjust. It's like when Umbreon left, then came back, then left again. It happened, but the metagame didn't care all that much.
The only BL I think should be considered for a re-test is Abomasnow, simply because it was never tested in the absence of Froslass, and that is a pretty huge difference given Abomasnow's concept.
Walrein is still very active in UU and would love Abomasnow to make her a bitch. I never got what the big deal was with Hail Froslass anyway, I can think of more annoying Pokemon (Sub-Wave Jirachi, anyone??). Right now, Walrein needs its team to compensate by using Snover. Abomasnow's stats are not bad for UU use, which means people can use Stallrein without "wasting" a teamslot on Snover.
I agree, if we're going to test any BL again it should be Abomasnow in the absence of Froslass. I said that a long time ago but it's only now that we have a relatively stable tier list to actually be able to retest anything.
Once a conclusion is reached on Abomasnow then I'd love to retest Crobat as well. I think quite a few things have changed for Crobat, and Super Fang's addition is offset by the addition of Rhyperior and Aggron's rise in the tier. One of the big reasons Crobat was initially banned was because it could revenge basically anything on an offensive team, but think about it now - all offensive teams carry an Aggron / Rhyperior / Rotom to check Swellow, so checking Crobat as well wouldn't be too much of a stretch (hypothetically).
EDIT: Also, I don't think Hera is falling anytime soon either... with Salamence banned, it is much much more viable in OU, and people will begin to capitalize on that quickly.
EDIT2:
Hail Froslass was a whore, but it didn't need to be on a hail team to be broken. Sub Wave Jirachi is annoying, but it can only hurt a certain proportion of Pokemon. Froslass can just stack up Spikes and then hit anything immune to them with a STAB Blizzard, whereas something like Sub Wave Jirachi is just shut down by Swampert or Hippowdon.
I would love to have Abomasnow in UU again.
Snover is just not good enough to use effectively as Milotic still beats him most of the time.
Yuggles
hey that second guy isn't too bad
Abomasnow doesn't shake things up enough, though. If you've ever wanted to make a hail team, you used Snover anyway. Replacing Snover with Abomasnow just means hail teams get a bit of a better lead, and that's it. We should drop Abomasnow and something else, although Crobat seems way too good with Super Fang. You guys are talking about how Rhyperior and Aggron handle it, but they lose half their HP via Super Fang and have no way to recover it back. Also, susceptible to Roost stalling maybe?
Super Fang may be able to take 50% out at first, but then what? Do 25% again? Roost off Stealth Rock Damage? Rhyperior and Aggron are only going to ohko back with Stone Edge / Head Smash. Surely they can live a Brave Bird as well.
i dont think we should retest anything - stuff is very likely gonna drop soon like maybe heracross? i dunno, retesting stuff that was voted bl in supermajority or twice in a row seems like a step backwards, plus, i'm pretty sure almost every pokemon retested would just be found broken again, with the exception of maybe crobat who is just going to make the game hell again anyway.
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