Legacy Raider
sharpening his claws, slowly
I guess he's using a rain team??
(I'm answering SJCrew, too)So you have nothing 4x weak to Ice or Grass, or 2x weak to Fire or Ghost? Because a Scarf set with Shadow Ball, Fire Blast, Energy Ball, and Hidden Power Ice can take out quite a lot. Add to that the CM set which beats Blissey, and the Specs set which can even handle stuff like Swampert and Roobushin, and I highly doubt you simply don't have trouble with Shandera. Try raising the minimum rating of the competition, because your opponents must not be very good at all. Any one of these sets is pretty much guaranteed one kill against any given team, unless of course you're running a team full of stuff like Lanturn and Snorlax. The bold part is hilarious, tbh.
Golduck is awesome shut upWhy are we discussing Golduck again? This is a thread about a good Pokemon.
He's hardly the first thing to change teams merely by existing. Stealth Rock, anyone? Besides, if you're using Choiced Rapid Spin then I'm not sure Shandera is really the cause of your problems there.The one problem with Shandara is he forces a change in teams without even being in play. A player cannot run a choice item on a pokemon that has a normal or fighting attack due to the existence of a pokemon with a trapping ability and 2 immunities (especially with Fighting being one of the most common and normal having some of the most useful effects ex. rapid spin, extreme speed) and a stat pump effect.
Uh, I'm not sure what your point is? If Shandera changes the metagame...so what? With around 150 new Pokemon and a boatload of new abilities, you should expect the Gen V metagame to change. Don't complain, adapt; if you use Gen IV teams in a Gen V metagame and get screwed, that's not Gen V's fault.I do hope you realize that even though Shandera causes minimal trouble for your team, you understand why everyone else has a problem with it, correct?
Also, I would like to see that team of yours, if you don't mind. If it's Trick Room, you can spare us the liberty of doing so, as it explains more than enough.
Alright then. I assumed that Air Lock was special because it's exclusive to Rayquaza, and would completely remove weather effects. Doesn't stop Golduck from being terrible.^ Air Lock does not remove weather. It does the exact same thing as Cloud Nine.
His point is that a Gen IV team can take a Gen V team... without Shandera, but no team without Shandera can take a team with Shandera assuming near equal skill.Uh, I'm not sure what your point is? If Shandera changes the metagame...so what? With around 150 new Pokemon and a boatload of new abilities, you should expect the Gen V metagame to change. Don't complain, adapt; if you use Gen IV teams in a Gen V metagame and get screwed, that's not Gen V's fault.
I completely agree with this. The idea that every OU Pokemon must have at least one true counter is ridicules. There are 649 Pokemon. Unless you want to ban a hell of a lot of them to Ubers, there are going to be Pokemon, like Shandera, without counters. Let's look at Ononokusu: massive Atk stat and an ability that nullifies Levitate. What Pokemon, besides Skarmory, can safely switch into that beast? There are many Pokemon out there that don't have true counters. Many must be revenge killed. At this point, it's stupid to think that they must be banned to Ubers. It's simply another change in the metagame.Perhaps the concept of "you must always be able to counter X pokemon" needs to be dropped once and for all from the metagame. People should just accept that there are times when a pokemon must be sacrified to win, just like when using Explosion and Memento.
Besides what practical use does the current definition of "counter" have? What's the matter if you can't 6-0 the opponent?
Sure, Shanderaa has no real counters because of Shadow Tag, but it's by no means an unstoppable pokemon. Even if it manages to get maximum speed and sp. atk boosts, Michievous Heart, Aqua Jet and Sucker Punch still get rid of it easily. You just need to be creative and have a different mindset than Gen 4's metagame.
Suicune can quite happily switch in and shit on your Onono with Ice Beam. If it's a DD set or SD set, a Scarfed Garchomp (or Flygon, Salamence, Sazandora, whatever) can switch in and DM/Outrage you to death. Choiced sets get walled by Skarmory or Nattorei (or any Steel which isn't weak to Ground, really).I completely agree with this. The idea that every OU Pokemon must have at least one true counter is ridicules. There are 649 Pokemon. Unless you want to ban a hell of a lot of them to Ubers, there are going to be Pokemon, like Shandera, without counters. Let's look at Ononokusu: massive Atk stat and an ability that nullifies Levitate. What Pokemon, besides Skarmory, can safely switch into that beast?
Wasn't this what happened to Salamence, and oh! look where he ended up at the end of 4th genThere are many Pokemon out there that don't have true counters. Many must be revenge killed. At this point, it's stupid to think that they must be banned to Ubers.
Forretress, Nattorei, maybe Registeel if it's choice locked into Outrage or Shadow Claw... you get the idea. He's not uncounterable.Let's look at Ononokusu: massive Atk stat and an ability that nullifies Levitate. What Pokemon, besides Skarmory, can safely switch into that beast?
I said nothing about changing the metagame or Gen 4 teams. Where is this tangent coming from? My only point was that "I have no problems with him" is an invalid argument unless you can back it up with an explanation of why and how others can adapt similarly.Uh, I'm not sure what your point is? If Shandera changes the metagame...so what? With around 150 new Pokemon and a boatload of new abilities, you should expect the Gen V metagame to change. Don't complain, adapt; if you use Gen IV teams in a Gen V metagame and get screwed, that's not Gen V's fault.
You have to realize though, that those are just examples. Shandera is capable of checking a vast majority of the metagame and the worst thing about it is that you're not even allowed to switch to your counters. Prime defensive targets can adapt with Shed Shell, like Nattorei, Forretress, and Brozong, but sweepers Pokemon that can't afford to run Shed Shell can't do anything about him without severely compromising their effectiveness.What makes Shandera not overcentralizing IMHO, is that both of these examples remain viable in a world without Shandera (Breloom will see a counter anyways and Riopushin can hit Espeon and a lot of other stuff). But that's just my guess.
No. if your gonna setup shanderra (which is hard enough as is) you do calm mind + sub.Did you know that Shandera gets Acid armor?:
Shandera
@Leftovers
Calm
252 sp attck 216 spd 48 sp def
nitro charge
acid armor
flamethrower
shadow ball
'Nuff said
You can't switch to a counter against Dugtrio, either, but we don't ban Arena Trap. And let's not forget Magnet Pull and Pursuit, which together put dozens of Pokemon in danger of being trapped and killed at any time.You have to realize though, that those are just examples. Shandera is capable of checking a vast majority of the metagame and the worst thing about it is that you're not even allowed to switch to your counters. Prime defensive targets can adapt with Shed Shell, like Nattorei, Forretress, and Brozong, but sweepers Pokemon that can't afford to run Shed Shell can't do anything about him without severely compromising their effectiveness.
While your strategy appears solid and you look like you know what you're doing, I also have to call attention to the fact that a lot of your team is assumption-based, such as what the Shandera set will be, when they switch-in, and having a perfect response for the scenarios you have outlined.
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I mean, Scizor with Bullet Punch really would be a problem if the stuff he checked with it weren't allowed to switch out, he were even stronger, and had better coverage, but we haven't had to deal with any of that the way we have to deal with Shandera. 4th gen precedents just don't work here.
I dunno, I think that set's actually pretty good. Shandy already has one of the highest SpAtk stats in OU, and benefits more from getting its speed boosted enough to sweep with that firepower.No. if your gonna setup shanderra (which is hard enough as is) you do calm mind + sub.
Good advice, but if he's playing on PO, you only see the opposing team before battle in the wifi ladder. On the DW ladder it's still hidden.Another thing to note is that you can now see your opponents' team before battling them, which means you know they have Shandera. From the start, you should think of a way to execute your strategy no matter which pokemon the chandelier manages to pick off.
With 65 base speed and no way to raise it that's not the really strategy the goth tower should be using. It should be investing in its defenses and acting like an inferior Wobbuffet: trap something that won't be able to hurt it much, and then tickle/fake tears/charm the foe, and switch into a setup sweeper. Could possibly use embargo or wonder room too, to prevent item use.I saw the goth tower do the same strategy, but it was actually fair because its slow and it's stats arent already impressively high. My Gastrodon survived it's attacks after it was +6.