np: UU Suspect Test Round 2 - Cold As Ice

[Heysup]

Are people seriously having trouble with three (3) turn Encore Wobbuffet? What's it going to do? Give them a 1 turn chance to set up / force a switch if he predicts right? That's only on the revenge kill, so you've already killed something in order for this to happen. Just don't spam your hardest hitting attack on Wobbuffett if it won't KO, that simple.

Raikou is amazing from what I've seen (yet to build a Raikou team yet but from what I've seen against me it's very effective) but the teams I've seen it actually be effective on...do not carry WobbTrio. With those two Pokemon you are sacrificing two team slots on your team. Assuming you have Raikou as well, practically useless defensively, you now have 3 slots that effectively cover....Electric, Fighting, Psychic, and Steel (Rock / Poison attacks will OHKO Dugtrio and Brave Birds will still destroy Raikou). That's pathetic. Good luck building a functioning team with only 3 slots - not impossible but from what I've seen, not much potential to say the least.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

It's not about the setup at all. It's about the ability to take out just about any scarfer/stallmon which makes it that much harder to deal with your opponent's threats. The length of the encore is irrelevant when Wobb is functioning like that. Maybe you just haven't seen a good Wobb yet or something, because I'm seeing them on all the top ladder teams right now.

 

[Pancham]

This round, I am hoping that Stara and Mew get the boot. Chansey isn't as bad a threat as it was last suspect round, imo. Also, Chansey is needed in this meta, as it helps stop Stara sweeps by switching in on a Brave Bird and, potentially, killing it or denting it massively due to the amount of HP Stara will be loosing. I am excited, however, to see the progression of this round. (Late response is late...)

 

[SJCrew]

You know, it's really telling when we want to keep a previously loathed suspect for another round not so it can continue doing its job, but just to to have something to suicide itself on Staraptor.

Where you at, Rayquaza? OU would like to have a word with you.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

2 Generations later and Heysup is still stuck in the mythical belief that you have to counter everything. The guy sitting #1 on the ladder currently uses a Wobbtrio+Raikou team actually. Quite a beauty to behold. It just traps the Blissey and then it goes ape shit crazy with special attackers. Sometimes you're just plain fucked if you have to face a Raikou behind a Sub and a CM and it won't matter what they have to defend against.

 

[pimpgangster]

This round, I am hoping that Stara and Mew get the boot. Chansey isn't as bad a threat as it was last suspect round, imo. Also, Chansey is needed in this meta, as it helps stop Stara sweeps by switching in on a Brave Bird and, potentially, killing it or denting it massively due to the amount of HP Stara will be loosing. I am excited, however, to see the progression of this round. (Late response is late...)

How can it stop Staraptor sweeps if Staraptor is gone. I don't see your reasoning behind this. If you are suggesting that Chansey's usage was all because of Raptor then you are mistaken. It is actually one of the best mixed walls in UU. It's sole purpose in life is not to just wall Raptor

 

[Son_of_Shadoo]

You know, it's really telling when we want to keep a previously loathed suspect for another round not so it can continue doing its job, but just to to have something to suicide itself on Staraptor.

Where you at, Rayquaza? OU would like to have a word with you.

Hey, something has to take the hit, may as well be the fat pink whore. Who doesn't smile when it goes down, even when it's your own?

MixDoom is currently wunderbar, switching into Mew, Victini and co. with near impunity (though watch out for Fusion Bolt on Victini), and capable of ripping holes in just about anything. Dark is an excellent STAB right now, no denying it.

 

[Heysup]

It's not about the setup at all. It's about the ability to take out just about any scarfer/stallmon which makes it that much harder to deal with your opponent's threats. The length of the encore is irrelevant when Wobb is functioning like that. Maybe you just haven't seen a good Wobb yet or something, because I'm seeing them on all the top ladder teams right now.

That's possibly the case (though I'm playing at the top-ish of the ladder too) but I think maybe my team isn't as vulnerable to it or something based on the fact that I'm probably not only bad players.

Anyway what does Wobb actually switch into? It's not like when I see my opponent with a Wobb I spam Scarf Fighting moves........he can come in on my slower defensive mons but he won't kill them if I don't let him, even if it means just using Stealth Rock or something useless. Again maybe I'm just lucky or my team is accidentally designed to counter Wobba, but I'm just not seeing the brokenness - especially not the WobbTrio Raikou combo.

 

[alphatron]

Unfortunately, the three turn encore is the result of a PO bug and not the actual game mechanics...I should just join their forums and post all this stuff. Taunt has the same problem. And memento still kills you when your opponent uses protect/detect on it.

 

[Banedon]

What has happened to my beloved UU tier ...

I'm retired and haven't played a single 5th gen game, but I'm still looking at the tier curiously. Something to ask Staraptor for BL players: perhaps Staraptor can 2HKO 252/252+ Slowbro (which is a feat), but then again what's stopping:

1. Players from using Cresselia and Deoxys-D, both of whom are bulkier and still carry recovery? I mean, Cresselia made a brief sojourn into 4th gen UU, why not use her again?
2. After taking the first attack, to switch to an immune / resist (e.g. Staraptor uses Brave Bird on Slowbro, next turn -> go to Rhyperior)? Slowbro will be pretty near incapacitated especially if SR is up, but then so would Staraptor from recoil.
3. Wearing Staraptor down with residual damage (Brave Bird has recoil so does Double Edge, if it's holding a Scarf or Band it'll have to switch around quite often and it's weak to SR)?

I'm not arguing for Staraptor being BL or UU, since I have no experience with 5th gen. I'm just curious why Staraptor is getting nominated for BL when 4th gen OU / Uber titans like Celebi, Mew and Deoxys-D are in the tier.

Maybe I'll start playing again, but just thinking about how much preparation one has to make to play Pokemon competitively makes me shudder @_@

Anyway what does Wobb actually switch into? It's not like when I see my opponent with a Wobb I spam Scarf Fighting moves........he can come in on my slower defensive mons but he won't kill them if I don't let him, even if it means just using Stealth Rock or something useless. Again maybe I'm just lucky or my team is accidentally designed to counter Wobba, but I'm just not seeing the brokenness.

You play too much offense ... with more balanced playstyles, there's always support moves (e.g. Thunder Wave) and defensive Pokemon (Chansey) to switch into, no? If you just spam SR, then he will Encore you to get his free turn of setup, too.

 

[Machi]

What has happened to my beloved UU tier ...

I'm retired and haven't played a single 5th gen game, but I'm still looking at the tier curiously. Something to ask Staraptor for BL players: perhaps Staraptor can 2HKO 252/252+ Slowbro (which is a feat), but then again what's stopping:

1. Players from using Cresselia and Deoxys-D, both of whom are bulkier and still carry recovery? I mean, Cresselia made a brief sojourn into 4th gen UU, why not use her again?
2. After taking the first attack, to switch to an immune / resist (e.g. Staraptor uses Brave Bird on Slowbro, next turn -> go to Rhyperior)? Slowbro will be pretty near incapacitated especially if SR is up, but then so would Staraptor from recoil.
3. Wearing Staraptor down with residual damage (Brave Bird has recoil so does Double Edge, if it's holding a Scarf or Band it'll have to switch around quite often and it's weak to SR)?

I'm not arguing for Staraptor being BL or UU, since I have no experience with 5th gen. I'm just curious why Staraptor is getting nominated for BL when 4th gen OU / Uber titans like Celebi, Mew and Deoxys-D are in the tier.

Maybe I'll start playing again, but just thinking about how much preparation one has to make to play Pokemon competitively makes me shudder @_@



You play too much offense ... with more balanced playstyles, there's always support moves (e.g. Thunder Wave) and defensive Pokemon (Chansey) to switch into, no? If you just spam SR, then he will Encore you to get his free turn of setup, too.

1. Who says players aren't using both XD but Slowbro is a "better" wall thanks to the ability it gained in regenerator which basically allows it to take hits and recover it as it switches out. In addition to that Slowbro received Scald which is a great way to both damage and inflict status - which both Cresselia and Deoxys-D do not have. Plus Slowbro's typing allows it to come in and tank a V-create with much more safety than other mons.

2. Rhyperior dropped in usage for a reason - there are tons more Grass and water types running around and these mons aren't exactly light weight either (e.g. Suicune, Celebi, Rotom-C, etc). Sure Rhyperior is a great counter to the walls of RU but he's fodder for tons of the common typings. Sides Staraptor can run LO and sub, which is a new variant. Plus with team preview Staraptor can easily predict the switch in and use Close Combat, to deal with Rhyperior/Registeel.

3. Residual damage is how I deal with him too, but basically in the end its let him wreak his havoc till he dies. I only try to make that quicker via Rugged Skin+Helmet combo+sucker punch.

As for the others I would like to point out that Mew was nominated and received a simple majority while Celebi & Zapdos based on statistics are rising in usage. Right now though thanks to drought+Kyuremu UU is still slowly weeding out those that are pretty damn broken. Its certainly quite a relief to see the two just mentioned banned.

 

[TLK]

Wobb, Staraptor and Chansey really really need to go. It's gotten to the point where this metagame is just flat out not fun to play anymore, whereas it was in the early stages when people weren't abusing them to the level that they are now.

Banedon, Staraptor generally runs three sets: Choice Scarf, Choice Band, LO + Sub/Roost. Of those, Cresselia can only beat one (CS) assuming it has max defences. As for Deoxys-D, it's 2HKO'd by Jolly LO Brave Bird.

Celebi is fine in this metagame, although it's definitely a top threat and hard to counter due to it's mad versatility. Mew is not fine, however.

 

[toshimelonhead]

For evidence of Chansey's brokenness, I used Explosion on my 252/Adamant Focus Sash Azelf vs the standard WishChance. It did 61%. In Gen 4, that same Explosion would do 150.1% - 176.7% to 252 HP/252 Def Bold Chansey, or two and a half times the power. That is ****ed up.

 

[Pidge]

Don't forget Explosion no longer halves the target's defense on use.

 

[breh]

actually, it's 3x, but that's not really a way of proving Chansey broken... it's a way of proving that explosion sucks.

not saying chansey isn't broken, though.

 

[JSND]

its actualy 2x. That guy make a unproven hyperbole about explosion differences

 

[awyp]

Well, Wobba should go really soon it's ability just guarantees 1-2 kills a game, by just switching in into a choiced Pokemon, it's that easy.

It's also funny since from the last 10 battles I played today all of them were using 'you guessed it' Staraptor, though I have found something that takes care of it fairly well...

 

[panamaxis]

he can come in on my slower defensive mons but he won't kill them if I don't let him, even if it means just using Stealth Rock or something useless.

Free kill for dugtrio/pursuiter while wobbufett stays at high health then?

 

[Rakan]

I honestly don't think Staraptor is that broken. I've never had any major issues with it, and it dies to recoil pretty fast. Not to mention that it usually carries Choice Scarf or Choice Band, which limits its versatility and requires prediction to play it well.

 

[baddjordan]

Espeon in a BP team is hellllllla broken

try it

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Espeon in a BP team is hellllllla broken

try it

Lol.

It pretty much negates any form of need for Soundproof or Ingrain, the only way to p-haze Espeon is Dragon Tail.

 

[mamoswineFTW]

Or, instead of P-hazing, why not just Haze?

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Because Haze has limited distribution and the only ones that really bother are Milotic, Murkrow and Crobat...

That said Murkrow seems like a hard counter to SmashPass. Priority Haze FTW.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Sub Rhydon is so boss. By using is over Rhyperior you sacrfice 5 attack and solid rock for eviolite boosted defenses which counts for a lot when setting up SD's behind a sub. Subbing on the switch completely eases prediction meaning that it can do a shitload with a simple max HP/Atk spread.

It also bosses in RU.

 

[SJCrew]

I sure hope you're banking on Rhydon taking a lot of neutral hits because without Solid Rock or Leftovers, it really isn't any better off than Rhyperior defensively.

Example: CB Dugtrio's Earthquake on 252 Eviolite Rhydon: 49.3% - 58%; on Rhyperior: 49.1% - 58.1%

(Also, Rhyperior is available in RU, too.)