Metagame in Progress: "Project Uber!"

[Torterragatr]

I don't have time to do that fossil edition I was rabbling about earlier, so I'll just do some OU mons.

Dragonite: Since Stealth Rock is really, really hard to get off in Ubers, Dragonite's niche should be focused on being a Dragon-type with a powerful STAB Hurricane. 130 SpA should be enough to accomplish this job. Access to Stealth Rock will make it a decent Multiscale lead as well. Its Speed is concerning, so 100/90/90 defenses will keep it somewhat on par with the other Ubers.

Conkeldurr: Can anyone say bulky attacker? Trouble is, Conkeldurr's bad Special Defense makes it hard to survive in a metagame where Draco Meteor is just casually thrown around. 120 Special Defense can survive stray Psychics from uninvested Pokémon. Its Defense is somewhat lacking by Uber standards too; making it 120 as well will make for a great Bulk Up user.

Politoed: Now this will be fun. Since none of Politoed's stat trends are better than Kyogre's, I'll just make it up out of imagination. Here's the lazy stat spread:
95 HP
100 Attack
150 Defense
110 Special Attack
110 Special Defense
110 Speed
So a physically defensive Kyogre, if you will. Recover gives it more of a niche there, though I'm not really sure if it will be viable without it.

Now that that's done—it is my strong opinion that if this project aims to stay alive, to attract more contributors and avoid being seen as a "pet mod" it will need much more of a central focus. I am specifically talking about the no-crits rule here and other extra mechanics, because they muddle up the rules list in a metagame that presumably will already have a steep learning curve, and more importantly what are you going to do with it? They do not contribute to the goals that were put in the OP, and it's not exactly as if crits have an astronomical impact; on average it will take 16 turns to get one, counting crits that don't affect the match. Some of the battles in more fast-paced metagames often don't last 16 turns. Also, why do you assume that a much bigger roster of Pokémon won't change the game much?

Given that this is a "serious" metagame, we should also start to consider some kind of council to approve Pokémon ideas. As this thread has already demonstrated, a few of the concepts will likely prove to be more broken than like Kyogre (probably even some of mine, it's easy to get carried away lol), and others might be just unviable. If we want a somewhat balanced metagame with 500 Pokémon to use, a central authority needs to be there to make sure everybody is on the same page.

 

[Monte Cristo]

I don't have time to do that fossil edition I was rabbling about earlier, so I'll just do some OU mons.

Dragonite: Since Stealth Rock is really, really hard to get off in Ubers, Dragonite's niche should be focused on being a Dragon-type with a powerful STAB Hurricane. 130 SpA should be enough to accomplish this job. Access to Stealth Rock will make it a decent Multiscale lead as well. Its Speed is concerning, so 100/90/90 defenses will keep it somewhat on par with the other Ubers.

Conkeldurr: Can anyone say bulky attacker? Trouble is, Conkeldurr's bad Special Defense makes it hard to survive in a metagame where Draco Meteor is just casually thrown around. 120 Special Defense can survive stray Psychics from uninvested Pokémon. Its Defense is somewhat lacking by Uber standards too, so making it 120 as well will make for a great Bulk Up user.

Politoed: Now this will be fun. Considering none of Politoed

Now that that's done—it is my strong opinion that if this project aims to stay alive, to attract more contributors and avoid being seen as a "pet mod" it will need much more of a central focus. I am specifically talking about the no-crits rule here and other extra mechanics, because they muddle up the rules list in a metagame that presumably will already have a steep learning curve, and more importantly what are you going to do with it? They do not contribute to the goals that were put in the OP, and it's not exactly as if crits have an astronomical impact; on average it will take 16 turns to get one, counting crits that don't affect the match. Some of the battles in more fast-paced metagames often don't last 16 turns. Also, why do you assume that a much bigger roster of Pokémon won't change the game much?

Given that this is a "serious" metagame, we should also start to consider some kind of council to approve Pokémon ideas. As this thread has already demonstrated, a few of the concepts will likely prove to be more broken than like Kyogre (probably even some of mine, it's easy to get carried away lol), and others might be just unviable. If we want a somewhat balanced metagame with 500 Pokémon to use, a central authority needs to be there to make sure everybody is on the same page.

Pet Mods are just unstable and can never be close to perfect, especially when they have some sort of goal, half of the reason is because not everybody agrees that one change is the best change and another reason is because you end up always making some pokemon insanely good and others insanely bad, for instance, this metagame is highly preferring offense (even though this pet mod is really one of the worse ones imo) to the point where stall is in no way viable, not going to lie, nearly all OMs besides BH currently are kind of doing this.

Even the singular changes that people make are very out of this world WHY THE HELL WOULD WE GIVE CONKELDURR CRESSELIA LEVEL DEFENSES? I have a big problem with this metagame because it acts like its making everything on an ubers level, due to me being a constant ubers player just annoys me a bit, because in no way is it even making everything on an ubers level, it's just breaking anything the creator WANTS to break.

Pokemon don't get to ubers because they have 120-across spreads, while one pokemon does (arceus), lets not forget this pokemon basically rules ubers with an iron fist. Ubers are all about pokemon having something about them that's normally OU level but extended to great lengths, like sure skymin would be a good OU mon with less spA and speed and without SG, but it's the fact that they took that skymin and buffed ONLY it's stand out stats, they didn't make it have cresselia level defenses on top of that, ubers are also very flavour based besides speed boost flaming chicken. There's more but, all in all, this is an example of an OM, with better execution could have become amazing but ultimatly failed and made somewhat of a mockery out of itself.

 

[Torterragatr]

Pet Mods are just unstable and can never be close to perfect, especially when they have some sort of goal, half of the reason is because not everybody agrees that one change is the best change and another reason is because you end up always making some pokemon insanely good and others insanely bad, for instance, this metagame is highly preferring offense (even though this pet mod is really one of the worse ones imo) to the point where stall is in no way viable, not going to lie, nearly all OMs besides BH currently are kind of doing this.

Even the singular changes that people make are very out of this world WHY THE HELL WOULD WE GIVE CONKELDURR CRESSELIA LEVEL DEFENSES? I have a big problem with this metagame because it acts like its making everything on an ubers level, due to me being a constant ubers player just annoys me a bit, because in no way is it even making everything on an ubers level, it's just breaking anything the creator WANTS to break.

Pokemon don't get to ubers because they have 120-across spreads, while one pokemon does (arceus), lets not forget this pokemon basically rules ubers with an iron fist. Ubers are all about pokemon having something about them that's normally OU level but extended to great lengths, like sure skymin would be a good OU mon with less spA and speed and without SG, but it's the fact that they took that skymin and buffed ONLY it's stand out stats, they didn't make it have cresselia level defenses on top of that, ubers are also very flavour based besides speed boost flaming chicken. There's more but, all in all, this is an example of an OM, with better execution could have become amazing but ultimatly failed and made somewhat of a mockery out of itself.

To be fair, Conkeldurr has lower HP than Cresselia... and Speed too. I was trying to replicate the role it had in OU, which is that of a bulkier attacker. But yes. We need some kind of force to moderate which Pokémon get in when we make shitty mistakes. This metagame is just in its inception and we can still change things, so how do you think it should be done? I am asking this question seriously.

 

[ntiller]

Well, first of all I think we need a rule that nothing gets its BST buffed over 600 without extremely solid justification and OP approval. There are lots of viable pokemon in Ubers with BSTs lower than this, and this would prevent people from continually submitting Weedles with 200 atk and 200 speed.

 

[Snaquaza]

Well, first of all I think we need a rule that nothing gets its BST buffed over 600 without extremely solid justification and OP approval. There are lots of viable pokemon in Ubers with BSTs lower than this, and this would prevent people from continually submitting Weedles with 200 atk and 200 speed.

Aside of this, we might wanna say not to do those effects as "this move used by this mon will always bypass subs or always flinch", just change the move or the mon, this way we prevent OP threats easier

 

[LightningLord2]

Can I give this a shot?
Unown:
90 HP
130 ATK
95 DEF
130 SPATK
95 SPDEF
110 SPEED
-Has the ability of Multitype.
-Hidden Power has always 120 BP.
-Copies the second, third and fourth move of the opponent upon entering the battle.

 

[Torterragatr]

There should also be restrictions on outrageous types, moves, or abilities without good justification. I wouldn't be surprised if after X/Y is implemented we get a storm of Levitating Fairy/Steel submissions.

^ Your Unown is decent, but I think Lati@s would outclass it mostly because Unown is way too unreliable here. It needs an actual movepool.

 

[Haaku.]

new unown idea.

Ability: Pressure
HP: 80
Atk: 80
Def: 80
SpA: 145
SpD: 100
Spe: 120

- Can now have multiple hidden powers in its move set.
- Hidden power is its signature move, boosting to 130 BP.
- Changes type to first Hidden Power in its move set.

 

[Haaku.]

Sorry for double posting, but i want to boost one of my fav mons.

Infernape
Ability: No Guard
HP: 95
Atk: 125
Def: 90
SpA: 125
SpD: 90
Spe: 130

- Now gets inferno, which is is perfect to abuse with No Guard for that yummy 100% burn.

 

[Monte Cristo]

as I thought, no attempt to fix the broken buffs, just more broken ass shit with 0 flavour, whatever

 

[Torterragatr]

^Dude, we know you hate how it's going, please don't keep posting in here if your opinion hasn't changed. It does nothing.

Sorry for double posting, but i want to boost one of my fav mons.

Infernape
Ability: No Guard
HP: 95
Atk: 125
Def: 90
SpA: 125
SpD: 90
Spe: 130

- Now gets inferno, which is is perfect to abuse with No Guard for that yummy 100% burn.

That would break the "BST limit" that Ntiller was talking about (we could push it up but that needs approval from the community [hard to call it one since it's like 5 people]/Velocity if he comes back in here). Inferno looks broken af with those stats so I'd say turn it down a little.

Anyway, I'll adjust some of my Pokémon to cooperate with these new limits. I encourage most of you to do the same. (This is what I was making while you were posting, Oiawesome! It took so long because I was interrupted by IRL stuff)

Torterra

110 HP
120 Atk
125 Def
60 SpA
95 SDef
65 Spe

Moves: They are great but they don't really need to be fixed, or maybe it's just my bias showing. Torterra will be a very crappy spinner anyway, because it can't beat the Giratinas at all.

Conkeldurr

105 HP
140 Atk
115 Def
50 SpA
100 SDef
45 Spe

Moves: n/a

 

[Haaku.]

How about Porygon2 getting a buff?

HP: 100
Atk: 70
Def: 105
SpA: 105
SpD: 105
Spe: 70

As for its movepool and abilities, nothing new probably. Aand from the same evolutionary line:

PorygonZ
HP: 50
Atk: 70
Def: 75
SpA: 150
SpD: 85
Spe: 95

When making these pokemon, always think: will I consider them in my Ubers team? It helps a lot.

 

[ntiller]

What if Unown got an ability that did something different based on what type of Unown it was? I think this is what they did in the TCG, and various Unown have been competitively viable. If we treat Unown as a pokemon that can fill a lot of very specific niches, I think we might be able to make it work.

Ability: Eldritch Power- Does something different depending on user's shape.

A: Activate- On switch in, choose a non damaging move that one of your opponent's non-fainted Pokemon knows. The user does that move immediately.
B: Break- On switch in, destroy the foe's held item, and the held item of one of your opponent's other Pokemon chosen at random.
C: Cure- On switch in, heals status from each of your Pokemon and sets up Safeguard.
D: Despair- On fainting, reduces the foe's HP to 1.
E: Enervate- On switch in, restore one of your fainted pokemon to health with 1 HP.
F: Fear- At the end of each turn, the foe gets -1 to each of its stats.
G: Guard- On switch in, your team gets x1.5 Def and x1.5 Spd for 5 turns. Lasts for 8 turns if Unown holds Light Clay.
H: Help- User may use any move a teammate knows.
I: Interfere- On switch in, randomly disables 2 of the foe's moves for three turns.
J: Jolt- User's attacks cause paralysis on hit.
K: Kill- On switch in, the foe is knocked out if it has 25% or less of its HP remaining.
L: Last- On switch in, all non permanent field effects become permanent (Trick Room, Gravity, Magic Room, Wonder Room, Rain Dance, Tailwind, Reflect, etc)
M: Move- User's attacks phaze foe (does not give Hidden Power negative priority).
N: Nightmare- At the end of the turn, if the foe is asleep, the foe faints.
O: Opportunity- At the end of the turn, switch the user with one of your other Pokemon. The replacement gets +1 priority on its first move.
P: Power- User gets +2 Spa and +2 Spd at the end of each turn.
Q: Quiet- On switch in, the abilities of all foes stop working for 5 turns (effect continues if Unown or the foe switches out/faints).
R: Restore- On faint, all other fainted pokemon are restored to 30% HP (yours and your opponent's).
S: Sabotage- On switch in, drains 10 PP from the last move the foe used. On fainting, drains 10 PP from the last move the foe used. Whenever the foe uses a move, that move costs 3 PP.
T: Time- Whenever the foe attacks the user, the foe must skip their next turn.
U: Undo- On switch in, ends all field effects and removes all hazards.
V: Vex- Non attacking moves get -1 priority and cost 16 pp.
W: Wrath- If the user is at 10% HP or less, the user's attacks do triple damage and get +1 priority.
X: eXcision- On switch in, the last move used by the foe loses all PP. Each other pokemon that knows that move also has that move lose all PP.
Y: Yawn- On switch in, the foe becomes drowsy (will fall asleep next turn).
Z: Zero- On switch in, restores all stat changes to 0 and prevents stats from changing for 8 turns.

I know some of these are probably hard to code, but I do think it would be interesting to focus on specialized utility as opposed to "How do we give Unown stats and a movepool to make it not suck?"

Also, I am well aware that some of these are much better than others. I do not expect every Unown to be viable.

 

[Torterragatr]

snip

The basic idea sounds really cool, actually. But I think it would make coding easier if you made each "type" a separate ability, and some of the abilities like Wrath need to be nerfed badly. 1.3x power and 1.5x Speed seem like more than enough.

Inferstrain: Porygon-Z would not be my first consideration for an Ubers team, honestly. It looks like it could be some kind of Choice Scarf user, so a speed a little above the Kyurems would be ideal... its STAB attack is also too weak to be that useful. Maybe more like 100.

This is slightly hypocritical since I've already done it, but like the OP said we should be doing it by tier, OU first. It keeps things organized and makes it more likely we will get to every Pokémon.

(Velocity, since you haven't posted here in a while, and the community is really miniscule, is it alright if I become the head of Project Ubers? Only long enough to establish rules, etc. haha this sounds so megalomaniacal)

V I meant in conjunction with some of the buffs Unown was given. With the stats it has, Unown would not be viable even if we gave it the best ability available.

 

[ntiller]

The basic idea sounds really cool, actually. But I think it would make coding easier if you made each "type" a separate ability, and some of the abilities like Wrath need to be nerfed badly. 1.3x power and 1.5x Speed seem like more than enough.

Inferstrain: Porygon-Z would not be my first consideration for an Ubers team, honestly. It looks like it could be some kind of Choice Scarf user, so a speed a little above the Kyurems would be ideal... its STAB attack is also too weak to be that useful. Maybe more like 100.

This is slightly hypocritical since I've already done it, but like the OP said we should be doing it by tier, OU first. It keeps things organized and makes it more likely we will get to every Pokémon.

(Velocity, since you haven't posted here in a while, and the community is really miniscule, is it alright if I become the head of Project Ubers? Only long enough to establish rules, etc. haha this sounds so megalomaniacal)

Unown would not be viable in Ubers if it had a 1.3x Spa bonus and a 1.5x Spe bonus permanently, let alone if it had to have less than 10% of its health remaining. It is possible that some of these abilities are too much, but I really doubt that Wrath is one of them.

 

[toxicroaker]

Restore is the only broken one I see. If your opponent has no fainted pokemon and the rest of your team is brought back to life than can you imagine how annoying that would be to have nearly won but then to have to do it over again?

 

[ntiller]

The ones I see being usable are Restore, Ennervate, Help, Last, Move (pass it an agility boost or something), Zero (V Create/Draco Meteor spam!), Undo, and possibly Cure/Guard. Ennervate, Restore, Help and Last all have the potential to be broken (though they could also easily be eh). Last seems especially powerful, as perma Trick Room + Screens would give your team incredible bulk and speed.

 

[boynedmaster]

You could give Regigigas Guts.

 

[Pikachuun]

You could give Regigigas Guts.

You could even give it Illuminate and it would still be Uber-level.

 

[Albacore]

I suggest buffing Hail by giving all Ice-types a 50% defense increase while it's active.

Also, giving Volcarona Mountaineer, Magic Guard or Tinted Lens might be just enough to make it Uber-worthy.

Would increasing either Chandelure's Speed to 110 or its HP to 100 make it good enough?

 

[Chaoswalker]

I suggest buffing Hail by giving all Ice-types a 50% defense increase while it's active.

Also, giving Volcarona Mountaineer, Magic Guard or Tinted Lens might be just enough to make it Uber-worthy.

Would increasing either Chandelure's Speed to 110 or its HP to 100 make it good enough?

Chandelure may very well need both.

And I agree with the hail thing. Every bit helps, but adding another type that's resistant to hail would help too. Other weathers have multiple types living under them, while Hail mostly just supports Ice types. Rain? Water+ Electric. Sand? Ground, Rock, Steel. Sun? Grass, Fire, Ground. Hail should boost ice defense, AND have another type being immune to its effects that synergizes well with Ice. ... Huh, does anything synergize with Ice?

 

[Albacore]

Make Light Ball double Pikachu's Speed as well as it's offensive stats. Give Shuckle Poison Heal, Recover, and/or Leech Seed. Give Archeops Unburden. Bring Arcanine's Attack to 140. Bring Darmanitan's Attack to 180. Give 10-20 more to all those pixies who have 100 in each stat. A few ideas which popped in my mind just now.

Edit: GIVE FLAREON DRAGON DANCE AND V-CREATE. JUST DO IT.

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

Hail should boost ice defense, AND have another type being immune to its effects that synergizes well with Ice. ... Huh, does anything synergize with Ice?

The best type match is Water, because it resists Fire and Steel, while not being weak to Rock and Fighting. The next best option would be Fighting, who resists rock. What is really needed for hail, is something that resists all of Ice's weaknesses that is also immune to hail, Like Thick Fat Hariyama in Gen Next.

 

[Chaoswalker]

What hail needs is for ice to lose a weakness and gain two resists. -_-

 

[Spy]

Give Hydreigon 130 speed and 110 attack, that should just about do it. Or give him contrary without those stat boosts :3