Serious LGBTQ

[jumpluff]

Yeah, I do. Quite a few. It's not a totally false stereotype.

well, uh, insofar as many (particularly young) people of any orientation like sex and pursue fleeting sexual relationships or hookups (with which there is nothing wrong as long as you're having fun and taking care of yourself imo). understandable also in that for a lot of people who don't know queer people (for all reasons i'm sure you can imagine...) at a young age or haven't fully accepted their orientation probably aren't getting the sex many of their straight peers are

jr is right, it can be hard to meet other queer people in your situation even just to have friendship and solidarity and a close understanding with. i hung out with a bunch of goth dykes in high school and that was pretty fulfilling for me

eta: i'm a hikikomori neet more or less but the times in my life i've had close friendships with queer girls all meant a lot to me and helped me develop quite a lot as a person. people are people so obviously i'm not gonna get along with all queer girls but with these ones we both had stuff in common and had that mutual situation we could relate to each other with and really 'got' each other

 

[forks]

well, uh, insofar as many (particularly young) people of any orientation like sex and pursue fleeting sexual relationships or hookups (with which there is nothing wrong as long as you're having fun and taking care of yourself imo). understandable also in that for a lot of people who don't know queer people (for all reasons i'm sure you can imagine...) at a young age or haven't fully accepted their orientation probably aren't getting the sex many of their straight peers are

those gay men who do pursue hookups have an advantage over straight men in that a much higher proportion of gays than straight women are willing to engage in nsa sex, and they are more easily persuaded into doing so, the cost of a hookup is lower on all both sides, no charm or seduction is required, no social grace, the only requirement is a modicum of physical appeal. imagine if straight men could just have sex with each other, they'd hardly bother with with women, too much trouble to scratch a mere itch. not that all of gaydom is like that, there's no shortage of loners and hopeless romantics, in my experience the clubgoing hedonist sluts on queer as folk are hardly representative of the homosexual set, but for those who do seek sex without commitment, the costs are lower, and, realizing this, they take advantage, more or less as you might expect of men in a climate of sexual permissiveness

 

[Myzozoa]

those gay men who do pursue hookups have an advantage over straight men in that a much higher proportion of gays than straight women are willing to engage in nsa sex, and they are more easily persuaded into doing so, the cost of a hookup is lower on all both sides, no charm or seduction is required, no social grace, the only requirement is a modicum of physical appeal. imagine if straight men could just have sex with each other, they'd hardly bother with with women, too much trouble to scratch a mere itch. not that all of gaydom is like that, there's no shortage of loners and hopeless romantics, in my experience the clubgoing hedonist sluts on queer as folk are hardly representative of the homosexual set, but for those who do seek sex without commitment, the costs are lower, and, realizing this, they take advantage, more or less as you might expect of men in a climate of sexual permissiveness

This is all conjecture, you have presented no study supporting any of your claims, basically just a story based on the logic of stereotypes.

 

[Bughouse]

I don't mean to say that gay teenagers/young 20s are any more or less sexually permissive than their straight counterparts.

What has shocked me and is more accurately what I meant when I said many gay people are not focused on relationships is that I know several gay 30-somethings who have outright told me they don't believe in romantic love or relationships. They just want one night stands.

I am aware that this is personal colloquial evidence, but it's all I have to go on. I don't know many gay 30-somethings, probably only 10 or so. But 6 said things like that to me. And I have a hard time believing I'd find the same response rate in comparable straight people.

 

[Spinda]

Well, I do know some straight people in their 30s, even early 40s that have that exact mentality.

If it is actually more common in gays, I'd imagine it's because some people take a while to feel comfortable enough with their sexuality to actually start having casual sex at the age most straight people would, meaning it could be understandable for it to drag on longer when they do. catching up on a lost youth or so?

I just woke up so this probably makes no sense whatsoever. ( as if anything I say ever does )

 

[Tash]

Makes perfect sense to me Spinda and I have an even number of gay friends split on the thought. I sadly dated one of the ones that only wanted sex (never gave it to him) and it was pretty depressing. That is where I think another issue shows up. Someone's first boyfriend/girlfriend can really influence their ideas on romantic relationships. I have seen plenty of straight guys who gave up on romantic relationships just for this very reason as well. It is sad when one negative person can have such a big impact on people.

 

[Myzozoa]

I don't mean to say that gay teenagers/young 20s are any more or less sexually permissive than their straight counterparts.

What has shocked me and is more accurately what I meant when I said many gay people are not focused on relationships is that I know several gay 30-somethings who have outright told me they don't believe in romantic love or relationships. They just want one night stands.

I say similar things and I'm straight and I'm 21, I know other people who express variations of these sentiments, both gay and straight. I don't want to be in relationships and don't believe that I have felt or ever will have felt romantic love, this is not to say that I 'don't believe in relationships' or that I don't believe other people experience romantic love. I am amused that you find these attitudes shocking, though.


I would say that the most coherent argument asserting homosexual sexual permissiveness is greater than 'societal' sexual permissiveness would have to do with the existence of a queer subculture that differentiates itself from 'heteronormative' culture by rejecting its sexual restrictiveness. Thus part of engaging in a queer subculture may include holding more permissive attitudes about sex.

 

[skies]

So, I have been thinking of finally coming out of the closet, I don't know, I might :/ I'm still horribly scared.

 

[Tash]

So, I have been thinking of finally coming out of the closet, I don't know, I might :/ I'm still horribly scared.

As long as you're in a safe place to do so, meaning whoever you're coming out to is okay with gays, you should be fine and no need to be scared. Just be you man. If people judge ya for it, screw em.

 

[Fortuit]

So, I have been thinking of finally coming out of the closet, I don't know, I might :/ I'm still horribly scared.

I disagree with Tash above. The process of coming out has no point if you only do it towards people who are for sure "okay with gays". It should begin with a friend whom you know will want to support you either because that friend is "okay with gays" or because your friendship will matter too much to cause a rift over that. And once you have that support it will become easier to do it towards other people, including your family.
It is a long process anyway, you don't need to tell everyone at once. Think of it as winning people over one by one, indeed starting by someone who is at a low risk of rejecting you, but progressing towards making the others accept you.

 

[Tash]

I disagree with Tash above. The process of coming out has no point if you only do it towards people who are for sure "okay with gays". It should begin with a friend whom you know will want to support you either because that friend is "okay with gays" or because your friendship will matter too much to cause a rift over that. And once you have that support it will become easier to do it towards other people, including your family.
It is a long process anyway, you don't need to tell everyone at once. Think of it as winning people over one by one, indeed starting by someone who is at a low risk of rejecting you, but progressing towards making the others accept you.

Okay, yeah I kinda worded it poorly, I mainly wanted to say come out to someone who will support you first. Also I agree with the taking it one person at a time. Apologies for my failure in relaying my thoughts.

 

[Bughouse]

protip: Come out to a friend while eating tasty food. That way, if they're a jerk about it, at least you have tasty food to eat.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

I'd like to come out with an icebreaker. I think this is pretty heart wrenching if you're gay and from any part of Asia. Or perhaps any part of the east for that matter.

And yeah, having parents with old world ideals, even though this might not apply for everybody, I sorta feel empty.

 

[WhiteDMist]

I'd like to come out with an icebreaker. I think this is pretty heart wrenching if you're gay and from any part of Asia. Or perhaps any part of the east for that matter.

And yeah, having parents with old world ideals, even though this might not apply for everybody, I sorta feel empty.

What would empty be for/to you? My mom and most of my household are old world too, and I tend to ice them out most of the time. I think it's is my natural reflex in order to protect myself when I eventually come out to them. Have yet to read the link in full, pretty sad from the bit I have read though. :/

 

[Oh My Biscuits]

So today (or yesterday for some of us) was National Coming Out day. Did anyone do anything eventful? I'd definitely contemplated coming out to my mom and sister today, but I didn't. However, it's been a lot easier since people have just been assuming that I'm gay. A few people want me to help this freshman who came out who has a rather unaccepting family, so I guess they realize that I would have some semblance of knowledge on this.

 

[skies]

That is kind of like me too :/ Everyone suspects I'm gay, and alot of people say that they thought that when they first met me. Idk tbh, I want to come out, but I can't in fear of being shunned. My parents don't exactly support gay people so... There is this one guy I am so deeply in love with, but he's not gay and it's just ughhhhhh. So idk.

 

[skies]

Is there a name for guys who are attracted to girls who have something extra?

Totally serious.

Can you elaborate a little bit? What do you mean by "something extra"? Something extra sex-wise, something appearance wise? Or am I being a dumbass?

 

[KM]

What I meant is transsexuals, transgenders. I used the wrong term.

I'm not sure if there's a specific label for guys who like girls with dicks, but the phenomenon itself isn't that weird. If you think about it, the whole dominant/submissive spectrum isn't just a gay person thing - straight guys have varying levels of it too. I imagine that the attraction comes from the desire to be the "bottom" in that relationship, yet you'd still be straight. In other words, the transgendered man to you is a girl with a strap-on.

If you're talking about being the "top" in a relationship with a transgendered man though, I think that would definitely no longer qualify as straight. Whether or not the man in question has silicone in their chest or a wig and makeup on, they still are a man, and I don't see why you'd be more attracted to them than you would be to a normal woman as a heterosexual man.

All that said, it could easily just be a fetish or a bi-curiosity. Assuming that you're talking about yourself, if you're straight but also are attracted to transgendered men, don't worry about labeling yourself. There are a bunch of strange combinations of sexuality, like straight cross-dressers etc., and it just provides further testament to the idea that sexuality is a spectrum and that one should just like what they like without stressing out too much over it :P

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

What I meant is transsexuals, transgenders. I used the wrong term.

I think what you are referring to is a kind of paraphilia, in particular Andromimetophilia.

However, I am hesitant to outright call you this or even suggest you are this, gender and sexuality are complex things and we don't know your full picture here. I know personally it can often be easier to chock something as "oh that's just a fetish" and try to move on. For years I tried to convince myself that I had something like Transvestic fetishism, for example.

 

[Fortuit]

I'm not sure if there's a specific label for guys who like girls with dicks, but the phenomenon itself isn't that weird. If you think about it, the whole dominant/submissive spectrum isn't just a gay person thing - straight guys have varying levels of it too. I imagine that the attraction comes from the desire to be the "bottom" in that relationship, yet you'd still be straight. In other words, the transgendered man to you is a girl with a strap-on.

If you're talking about being the "top" in a relationship with a transgendered man though, I think that would definitely no longer qualify as straight. Whether or not the man in question has silicone in their chest or a wig and makeup on, they still are a man, and I don't see why you'd be more attracted to them than you would be to a normal woman as a heterosexual man.

All that said, it could easily just be a fetish or a bi-curiosity. Assuming that you're talking about yourself, if you're straight but also are attracted to transgendered men, don't worry about labeling yourself. There are a bunch of strange combinations of sexuality, like straight cross-dressers etc., and it just provides further testament to the idea that sexuality is a spectrum and that one should just like what they like without stressing out too much over it :P

I see a problem with you post, although it is open-minded, in that you make a lot of misconceptions that are borderline offensive to some people.
Even if you meant well it will be good for other readers to provide further clarification (anyone else feel free to add to that).

First paragraph.
No idea why you are portraying domination and submission primarily as a "gay person thing".
In a gay male relationship, there may be domination/submission play in the bedroom, but that doesn't mean the dominant role is restricted to the "top guy". Besides, just as a safe reminder, in many gay relationships there is no such play. There isn't even a "top" and a "bottom". Some guys prefer to always assume the same of these two positions regarding penetration, but in a lot of gay relationships it just varies from one love-making session to the next.
Don't equate "dominant/submissive" with "top/bottom" and boil it all down to "Who owns the penis?", thank you.

Second paragraph.
Transgendered or transsexual persons have assumed at least the other gender (the other sex too if they have gone through with a sexual reassignment operation), and in general prefer to be referred to under their new gender. If a man has completely assumed the opposite gender, then for all intents and purposes it is a very debatable question where you should still call them a man, thus questioning your use of "transgendered man" here.
There are many, many degrees in how far one assumes another gender, so please refrain from assimilating a "transgendered man" as someone who wears a wig and makeup. It sounds like you are equating transgendering with transvestism.
I am sorry but on this matter it is very important to watch your semantics. There is an ongoing semantical debate among people who are far more involved with these issues than I am, so I don't think there is any defined "right" way to talk about transgendered and transsexual persons that no one will ever take offense with. Still, you could have been more careful with your phrasing to offend less people, myself included.

 

[KM]

I see a problem with you post, although it is open-minded, in that you make a lot of misconceptions that are borderline offensive to some people.
Even if you meant well it will be good for other readers to provide further clarification (anyone else feel free to add to that).

First paragraph.
No idea why you are portraying domination and submission primarily as a "gay person thing".
In a gay male relationship, there may be domination/submission play in the bedroom, but that doesn't mean the dominant role is restricted to the "top guy". Besides, just as a safe reminder, in many gay relationships there is no such play. There isn't even a "top" and a "bottom". Some guys prefer to always assume the same of these two positions regarding penetration, but in a lot of gay relationships it just varies from one love-making session to the next.
Don't equate "dominant/submissive" with "top/bottom" and boil it all down to "Who owns the penis?", thank you.

Second paragraph.
Transgendered or transsexual persons have assumed at least the other gender (the other sex too if they have gone through with a sexual reassignment operation), and in general prefer to be referred to under their new gender. If a man has completely assumed the opposite gender, then for all intents and purposes it is a very debatable question where you should still call them a man, thus questioning your use of "transgendered man" here.
There are many, many degrees in how far one assumes another gender, so please refrain from assimilating a "transgendered man" as someone who wears a wig and makeup. It sounds like you are equating transgendering with transvestism.
I am sorry but on this matter it is very important to watch your semantics. There is an ongoing semantical debate among people who are far more involved with these issues than I am, so I don't think there is any defined "right" way to talk about transgendered and transsexual persons that no one will ever take offense with. Still, you could have been more careful with your phrasing to offend less people, myself included.

I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone at all, nor objectify/label anyone inappropriately. The question was asking for a specific label, so I was just trying to illustrate the factors that would create that label. Besides, it might just be in the way I phrased it, but I specifically denied a lot of the things you're accusing me of (e.g. portraying dom/sub as a gay person thing, the whole paragraph is about how it's a universal spectrum with some people who feel the need to define their sexual preference and others who don't).

In summary, I really was just trying to explain in simple language how or why a "straight" male might be attracted to a transgendered person. From the way the question was asked, I assumed it was purely rhetorical and concerned only with sexual attraction towards a person born male in some stage of transition to a female, whether it be only through appearance or post-op. As a member of the LGBTQ community myself though, I should definitely be much more careful with throwing out terms I don't know everything out, so thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Fortuit]

I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone at all, nor objectify/label anyone inappropriately. The question was asking for a specific label, so I was just trying to illustrate the factors that would create that label. Besides, it might just be in the way I phrased it, but I specifically denied a lot of the things you're accusing me of (e.g. portraying dom/sub as a gay person thing, the whole paragraph is about how it's a universal spectrum with some people who feel the need to define their sexual preference and others who don't).

I admit my post was a slight overreaction because I know you meant better than what your phrasing sometimes led me to believe, which indeed was possible to retrieve from the whole paragraph. For example, reading an explanation that starts out like this: "If you think about it, the whole dominant/submissive spectrum isn't just a gay person thing", it does sound like the person who's speaking is also making the assumption that it is primarily a gay thing.

You see that in my phrasing I continuously try to avoid making any ad hominem criticism. Yet, indeed the question in the first place was only about how to name a certain attraction. The question did not ask for any specification towards top and bottom roles, even less domination and submission; nor did it ask how or why such an attraction may arise. You introcuded several biases in your answer, which I was only trying to provide a counterpoint to.

 

[KM]

I admit my post was a slight overreaction because I know you meant better than what your phrasing sometimes led me to believe, which indeed was possible to retrieve from the whole paragraph. For example, reading an explanation that starts out like this: "If you think about it, the whole dominant/submissive spectrum isn't just a gay person thing", it does sound like the person who's speaking is also making the assumption that it is primarily a gay thing.

You see that in my phrasing I continuously try to avoid making any ad hominem criticism. Yet, indeed the question in the first place was only about how to name a certain attraction. The question did not ask for any specification towards top and bottom roles, even less domination and submission; nor did it ask how or why such an attraction may arise. You introcuded several biases in your answer, which I was only trying to provide a counterpoint to.

On a somewhat-similar topic, how exactly is the best way to deal with people who are either ignorant about or blatantly against LGBTQ rights or even just the people in general? I'm not talking about people who misuse terms or unintentionally objectify/insult people (guilty as charged >.>), I'm talking about full-on, youtube-comment, "(BAN ME PLEASE)"-should-die-in-a-hole people. Is the best solution really just to ignore them until they die off, or is there something that can be actively done to overcome and educate these prejudices?

Whatever the answer is, I know that fighting fire with fire, so to speak, will never work. Early in my process of realizing my sexuality, I became very vindictive about it, especially online. I think it was a mixture of excitement of being different and wanting to be on the progressive side and be able to refute any other point of view (I realize this sounds really weird, I might talk about it more in another post) as well as a matter of self-justification that my own (relatively unnoteworthy) sexuality as a gay male was normal. I can argue that homosexuality - and by extension, rights like gay marriage - should be immediately accepted from viewpoints of science, religion, statistics, logic, and more; and during this vindictive phase I would both seek out this knowledge and attempt to transfer it to the bigots in the youtube comments, forum boards, online games, etc. Throughout all of this, though, I realized that I never was able to enact any change in anyone else. All I was doing was making myself feel right and above my "opponent" morally - which I'm sure they were thinking as well on the other side. In fact, I've never seen any argument like that end up in concessions from either side.

Tl;dr should we even care/try to educate vehement bigots?

 

[Fortuit]

It is even more difficult to "educate a bigot" on the Internet than it is in the tangible world.

In any argument, two people will only make concessions and rapproach their points of view if they have more in common than they initially thought. Any other situation will hardly ever reach a conciliation (have you ever seen two politicians find a common ground on a TV debate?). You may not educate the bigot you are facing, but you will your audience. What you did over these years at least served this effect.

As for what can be done about the bigot him or herself. I don't think that any words can reason with someone who is vehemently against your opinion (or even worse here, who you are). They might change their mind if one day they become aware of a situation that affects them close to home, if they are ever touched through a word of art/film/literature, or if they hear about a tragedy powerful enough to sway them. Really, I think all you can do is tell your story if it is a very moving one, or, since we are talking about the Internet, link them to articles, testimonies, videos that may have that impact.

 

[ChaosAkita]

I feel like I'm a bad queer because I don't try hard enough to find myself a girlfriend. But I can't even find myself a boyfriend (that I like). Wah.