Pokémon Gengar

[ClockworkLad]

Gengar has the best offensive typing, an advantage against the abomination known as fairies, and quite the coverage. Giga Drain? Sure! Focus Miss? Go for it! TBolt? Cool! Icy Wind? HOLY SHIZ IT HAZ AN ICE TYPE MOVE YUSH!!!!

Gengar aint dropping OU, much like Scizor.

 

[Nioute]

Hello all
I play gengar like main pokemon, but now i need to choose a second.
my gengar is :

Gengar@ Black Sludge
Nature: Timid
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Speed/252 SpA/6 HP

Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Disable
Substitue

What pokemon/moveset have a good synergy with my gengar please ?
I though a tankinitar(tyranitar) But i need a little help

Thank you

Ps: sorry about my english i am french

 

[Hrishi]

Hi there. Gengar is by far my favourite pokemon, and I really love using the SubDisable set. However I am not fond of using Focus Blast, the accuracy of the move has killed me so many times. Is it a valid reason to run something else? If so, what would you run if you were limited to 2 offensive moves? So far, the best options seem to be Sludge Bomb or Dazzling Gleam. Gleam seems to have better overall coverage with Shadow Ball but Sludge Bomb is STAB and has decent coverage too. Am I seeing this correctly? Would love some advice on this. :)

 

[AOPSUser]

Hi there. Gengar is by far my favourite pokemon, and I really love using the SubDisable set. However I am not fond of using Focus Blast, the accuracy of the move has killed me so many times. Is it a valid reason to run something else? If so, what would you run if you were limited to 2 offensive moves? So far, the best options seem to be Sludge Bomb or Dazzling Gleam. Gleam seems to have better overall coverage with Shadow Ball but Sludge Bomb is STAB and has decent coverage too. Am I seeing this correctly? Would love some advice on this. :)

Without Focus Blast you cannot damage Pokemon such as Tyranitar and Bisharp. If you don't want to run Focus Blast, Sludge Bomb can hit many of the same targets, but missing out on Pokemon like the two aforementioned, which are the two main reasons Gengar uses Focus Blast in the first place. Dazzling Gleam is no substitute because Tyranitar takes no damage from it and Bisharp isn't OHKOed, but it does have decent coverage.

Hidden Power Fire is also an option to take out Scizor.

 

[Calm_Mind_Latias]

This may sound absurd, but does anyone want to try Sub Focus Punch on this with some attack investment?

I personally would not use it (and I do believe it is a "shitty gimmick").

It is viable and it is not as retarded as using Sucker Punch on it (as this was sometimes featured in the "Silly things in OU thread") as that doesn't even KO opposing Gengar or Espeon... but the costs are far too high in Gen 6 since it would result in reductions in its special attack (as it would reduce the power of its Special Shadow Ball, one of the most spammable attacks of OU) and speed (as the 100-110 speed tier is crowded in Gen 6 compared to Gen 3). Its surprise factor means you do not need sub to KO a blob who thinks it can use Aromatherapy on you. It is more accurate than Focus Blast and can be used against Heatran if it is behind a sub.

Admittedly, it is a niche set, because I think (and I say "I think" because I wasn't around in Gen 3) its primary targets were more prevalent then as Blissey was used more then.

Focus Blast is way better against offensive teams.

-------

IIRC, the Gen 3 McIceGar set used 184 Atk EVs.

184 Atk Gengar Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 350-414 (49 - 57.9%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

184 Atk Life Orb Gengar Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 455-538 (63.7 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

(Chansey now has Evolite)

184 Atk Life Orb Gengar Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 335-395 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
--

Hits for about the same as Focus Blast, but Heatran can foil the strategy if it is not in KO range for its (weaker Shadow Ball since it would have fewer Special Attack Evs on it) just by spamming Lava Plume once its Sub is broken.

184 Atk Life Orb Gengar Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 239-283 (61.9 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 260-307 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


====

On a similar note, some actually argued using Freeze Dry on Mamoswine to get past Rotom-W (and it also works against Gastrodon and Quagsire too). Mamoswine has a low special attack as Gengar has a low physical attack.

 

[gengod]

Admittedly, it is a niche set, because I think (and I say "I think" because I wasn't around in Gen 3) its primary targets were more prevalent then as Blissey was used more then.

You've said it yourself. It's a niche set. It's not worth it to give up on what Gengar does best just to help it get past 2-3 Pokemon that it's teammates can cover better anyway.

Anyways, more people need to try Specs Gengar again. Shadow Ball eats teams without Ghost resist.

 

[Mia [old]]

Anyways, more people need to try Specs Gengar again. Shadow Ball eats teams without Ghost resist.

This is the right idea. Gengar is the correct speed tier where the extra pressure in the mid-game is going to be more useful for leveraging an advantage on the opponent. Unprepared opponents have a very difficult time managing the extra pressure without the resist. Choice Specs is quite a bit more threatening than Choice Scarf for Gengar.

As an aside, I think Choice Scarf is not that good on many Pokemon, but it's particularly apparent on something like Gengar.

 

[56k]

I was looking for the most efficient EV spread (HP? Defense? How much?) for surviving one bullet punch from CB scizor, and it's 168 Def EVs.

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 168 Def Gengar: 193-228 (73.94 - 87.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Alternatively you can tack on a few HP EVs to hit a leftovers/sludge number but it costs 8 more EVs in total to survive 100% of the time.

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 28 HP / 148 Def Gengar: 198-234 (73.88 - 87.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I figure it might be of interest to some people because it could have a few niche applications with Disable, HP Fire, Hypnosis, or just using 2 shadow balls.

If you go 252 SpAtk EVs then you hit 359 SpA.
If you take the 2nd "bulkier..." spread then you only get 104 SpAtk EVs and you hit 322 SpA.
That's "only" ~10% weaker across the board, and in exchange you can survive anything that is weaker than CB, 130 base attack, 252 Atk EVs, Adamant, 40BP + Technician + STAB = 90 BP. That includes things like Azumarill's Aquajet, ScarfChomp Dragon Claw, some Conkeldurr Knock Offs, and LO Landorus-T Stone Edge.

Possible uses with black sludge, choice specs, or scarf sets perhaps, but obviously LO doesn't work.

 

[Camara]

I was coming here to ask if people found Dazzling Gleam to be a possible option over Focus Miss. It seems it does.

DG has a lot less power but it's a certain 80 BP move, while FB likes to have 0 BP with the miss.
It loses on Tyranitar and normal types (that you are immune to anyway) but allows you to mini-counter fighting types and hit the common dragons, while also killing dark types.

Supereffective DG power however isn't much different from a STAB neutral Shadow Ball...

One question: how do you deal with the usual neutrality of Gengar's attacks? (Shadow Ball hits neutral almost everything)
When I see Gengar defenses I imagine anything can kill it, so a 2HKO with Shadow Ball is always risky. Is it like this or does Gengar survive hits "often"?

 

[gengod]

Hi there. Gengar is by far my favourite pokemon, and I really love using the SubDisable set. However I am not fond of using Focus Blast, the accuracy of the move has killed me so many times. Is it a valid reason to run something else? If so, what would you run if you were limited to 2 offensive moves? So far, the best options seem to be Sludge Bomb or Dazzling Gleam. Gleam seems to have better overall coverage with Shadow Ball but Sludge Bomb is STAB and has decent coverage too. Am I seeing this correctly? Would love some advice on this. :)

Will-O-Wisp is an option as it cripples all of his common checks albeit Heatran. DG is useless on Gar, it's just way too weak.

 

[Calm_Mind_Latias]

I was coming here to ask if people found Dazzling Gleam to be a possible option over Focus Miss. It seems it does.

DG has a lot less power but it's a certain 80 BP move, while FB likes to have 0 BP with the miss.
It loses on Tyranitar and normal types (that you are immune to anyway) but allows you to mini-counter fighting types and hit the common dragons, while also killing dark types.

Supereffective DG power however isn't much different from a STAB neutral Shadow Ball...

Or STAB Sludge Bomb who also has some utility for its ability to break Fairies and providing more general neutral power with a rather nifty side effect against some walls.

I really think one can have an irrational fear of Focus Blast missing; I remember at times when I Swaggered an Excadrill with Klefki, and certainly using Focus Blast is similar to that although Focus Blast on Gengar gives one better odds. The Shadow Ball buff remedies this against most offensive Pokemon since some defensive Steel types will now require one Focus Blast and a Shadow Ball as opposed to two Focus Blasts. That alone makes it exponentially easier and acceptable for Gengar to use Fighting and Ghost coverage. However, I do not currently use Focus Blast on Gengar because I primarily want to deal with Fairies with Sludge Bomb as Fighting and Ghost do not suffice this gen due to specially defensive Fairies. You'll appreciate Focus Blast 70% of the time if you find your opponent thinking Gengar would be set-up bait for Ferrothorn's Spike stacking if you have no means of hazard control. But that seems to be the only significant instance. Gengar could just switch out of Heatran after its Sub has been broken and it could use Pain Split or Shadow Ball against it.

Dazzling Gleam would not help you against Heatran, Ferrothorn, Tyranitar (although the AV set can tank a Focus Blast) or Excadrill (if you want to have a chance to hit before it EQs and you do not want to use a turn switching out). Gengar really does not like fucking around with Assault Vest Conkeldurr even with Dazzling Gleam due to lack of STAB on Dazzling Gleam and its low base power. Goodra can also tank it, Garchomp is often Scarfed, and Dragonite may have danced. Kyurem-B? Greninja if Gengar is behind a sub although Focus Blast and Sludge Bomb would work almost as well? Mandibuzz seems to be the best use for it although I haven't done the damage calcs; due to Mandi's bulk maybe it is only useful against it if Gengar has a Life Orb.

One question: how do you deal with the usual neutrality of Gengar's attacks? (Shadow Ball hits neutral almost everything)
When I see Gengar defenses I imagine anything can kill it, so a 2HKO with Shadow Ball is always risky. Is it like this or does Gengar survive hits "often"?

First of all, if you fear Gengar, just use a damage calculator for defensive candidates that can deal with whatever set is worrying you and have enough power to do significant damage to Gengar. For instance, Heatran can certainly survive a Shadow Ball or Focus Blast, but Gengar would have the advantage if it is behind a Sub in that match-up. Assault Vest Conkeldurr is a good offensive option too. But during the course of a match, you may need to scout to see whether it has Focus Blast or Sludge Bomb, but that might be difficult because skilled Gengar users would avoid the temptation of immediately using Sludge Bomb if they see a Fairy type to maintain the element of surprise and of course there are few instances were liberally spamming Focus Blast is a good idea as one wants to do at least some damage.

 

[alexwolf]

4 attacks LO Gengar is surpirsingly effective, especially in Volt-turn teams, where its frailty is not a big issue. Shadow Ball + Focus Blast are musts, where on the other two slots you have three options: Sludge Wave is nice for Fairy-types, Mega Venusaur (Sludge Wave 2HKOes defensive Mega Venusaur 80% of the time with SR), Greninja (on the switch obviously, as nobody likes to spam Focus Blast on forced switches), Mandibuzz (70% chance to 2HKO without SR), Assault Vest Tangrowth, and can in general OHKO a lot of offensive Pokemon that Shadow Ball can't. Thunderbolt is great for Mega Charizard Y (doing 77% minimum to this beast is very useful), Togekiss, Skarmory (OHKOes after SR, unlike Shadow Ball, which is useful in HO teams that want to prevent Skarmory from using Defog), Keldeo, Mandibuzz, and regular Gyarados. Finally, HP Ice OHKOes Dragonite after SR, Garchomp, Zygarde, Gliscor, and Landorus-T. Imo, the best comob for the last two slots is Sludge Wave + HP Ice, which allows you to OHKO / revenge kill a ton of offenisve Pokemon, while simultaneously being very hard to wall, as many teams use Fairy-types as their special wall, or Assault Vest users as their special pivots on offenisve teams, all of which Gengar can 2HKO. HP Fire is also an option, but all the Steel-types you would want it for are already 2HKOed at worst by Shadow Ball, so it's usefulness is very limited.

 

[Groombridge]

4 attacks LO Gengar is surpirsingly effective, especially in Volt-turn teams, where its frailty is not a big issue. Shadow Ball + Focus Blast are musts, where on the other two slots you have three options: Sludge Wave is nice for Fairy-types, Mega Venusaur (Sludge Wave 2HKOes defensive Mega Venusaur 80% of the time with SR), Greninja (on the switch obviously, as nobody likes to spam Focus Blast on forced switches), Mandibuzz (70% chance to 2HKO without SR), Assault Vest Tangrowth, and can in general OHKO a lot of offensive Pokemon that Shadow Ball can't. Thunderbolt is great for Mega Charizard Y (doing 77% minimum to this beast is very useful), Togekiss, Skarmory (OHKOes after SR, unlike Shadow Ball, which is useful in HO teams that want to prevent Skarmory from using Defog), Keldeo, Mandibuzz, and regular Gyarados. Finally, HP Ice OHKOes Dragonite after SR, Garchomp, Zygarde, Gliscor, and Landorus-T. Imo, the best comob for the last two slots is Sludge Wave + HP Ice, which allows you to OHKO / revenge kill a ton of offenisve Pokemon, while simultaneously being very hard to wall, as many teams use Fairy-types as their special wall, or Assault Vest users as their special pivots on offenisve teams, all of which Gengar can 2HKO. HP Fire is also an option, but all the Steel-types you would want it for are already 2HKOed at worst by Shadow Ball, so it's usefulness is very limited.

This is my Gengar du jour. At the moment, I'm using Shadow Ball/Focus Blast/Thunderbolt/Giga Drain. I've got Poison coverage elsewhere, so Gengar can do without. TBolt is always useful, and Giga Drain is great for the occasional surprise kill, as well as offsetting Life Orb recoil. If your opponent sends in a Gastrodon or something to tank you, it's a free kill (and free HP). Also handy for the omnipresent Rotom-W; usually a 2HKO.

 

[Hiphopanonymous]

So, I've been using this set:

Gengar@ ChoiceSpecs
EV's: 4HP/252SpA/252Spe
Nature: Timid
Ability: Levitate
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
-Hypnosis
-Trick

Ridiculously prediction heavy, but ridiculously trolly. Yes, I know I can lock myself into a move that can barely hit the broad side of a barn, but hear me out. I usually use this as a lead, and pick whichever move seems the most logical. Lead Deo-D, Cloyster, and most hazard setters get a pair of sweet glasses, Smeargle, Breloom, and predicted T-Tar switch ins get put to sleep, or I just look at their team and figure out which poke is more likely to come in, and nuke accordingly. Timid is preferred over Adamant, although a Scarf can be used as well to tie with Latios, and outspeed Keldeo. DO NOT LOCK YOURSELF INTO HYPNOSIS, a miss will mean tragedy for Gengar, and possibly the whole team.

Teammates picks include Megasaur (who can also make with the naptimes via Sleep Powder), Talonflame (due to the hazard mons usually getting crippled), T-Tar himself (who likes having a Fighting + Ground immune comrade-in-arms), and your Spinner/Defogger of choice (Hazard mons being crippled means less work to do :D).

As for checks/counters, the threat of a having your check/counter put to sleep is pretty huge, AND having a poke crippled by trick only adds to the threat it generates, so I'm having issues thinking of counters and checks for this thing at the moment. Tricking the wrong thing or missing Hypnosis usually means losing Gengar though.

Overall, not the most effective set out there and full of flaws, but if you're looking for a FUN set, I highly recommend it.

 

[effyouzion]

I thought this gen would be great for Gengar, but I honestly haven't found a use for him. Every time I think I need a ghost, I would be better off with Aegislash than Gengar, who not only has a stronger shadow ball, but has mixed coverage with sacred sword and priority in shadow sneak. Never seen an effective team with both Aegis and Gengar either.

 

[Frisodium]

Whats the problem with Dazzling gleam? It's an amazing move! Ghost/Fairy is only resisted by pyroar, wich is basically useless. Also is supereffective against dragons, fighting and dark types. You can hit steel types with shadow ball, wich is still pretty powerful and can deal pretty damage against excadrill or ferrothorn. In fact, though it is not so effective as focus miss against tyranitar, it's still a super effective hit, and of course it is far more reliable. Both combinations allow perfect coverage, so it is a matter of personal preference.

 

[Jukain]

I've been using this set, which was originally presented by alexwolf in BW C&C and I assumed was shit. Boy, how wrong I was.

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Thunderbolt / Focus Blast

So, this is DBond Gengar. The rest of its moveset is pretty obvious, and I don't think needs to be covered. Anyways, Gengar can do a number of things with Destiny Bond, including take out slower offensive threats ready to devastate and defensive Pokemon expecting to take it out pretty easily due to its frailty. For HO teams, which don't really mind the sac, this proves invaluable. I find it particularly effective against the Pokemon Gengar spinblocks, which often can kill it, and DBond takes them out then, keeping your hazards. Do you want some threat to your team dead? Do you just want to remove a Pokemon from the opposing side of the field? Well, then DBond fulfills these issues. Gengar has power issues in that, due to the relatively low BP of its moves, it has difficulty hitting all that hard. DBond basically secures a KO, as many foes can take out Gengar with relative ease. It's become my favorite HO Gengar set, easily.

 

[Waster0fTime]

This may sound really dumb but why does gengar run 4HP evs? Doesn't it want an odd HP number so it can sub 4 times?

 

[e5 y vx]

Whats the problem with Dazzling gleam? It's an amazing move! Ghost/Fairy is only resisted by pyroar, wich is basically useless. Also is supereffective against dragons, fighting and dark types. You can hit steel types with shadow ball, wich is still pretty powerful and can deal pretty damage against excadrill or ferrothorn. In fact, though it is not so effective as focus miss against tyranitar, it's still a super effective hit, and of course it is far more reliable. Both combinations allow perfect coverage, so it is a matter of personal preference.

BUT SB is already such a good coverage move by itself. Depending on your team, you'll want focus blast, giga drai, tb, hp: ice, or whatever to cover team weaknesses. You can't discuss gg's moveset without thinking about who your team wants to be rid of.

 

[Chiki]

I'm thinking of running mixed Aegislash with King's Shield, Shadow Ball, Shadow Sneak and Sacred Sword and DB Gengar together since ghost is the best offensive type this gen.

What do you guys think would go well with that?

 

[ryan]

I'm sure this has been posted about in the last 20 pages, but I'm too lazy to look.

I've been running Specs Gengar lately with some pivot support to get it in a lot throughout the battle, and I'm loving it. It hits disgustingly hard and has so few safe switches into its Ghost STAB alone. The basically two Pokemon that can effectively switch into it (Chansey and Mandibuzz) both hate being Trick'd Choice Specs, so that's really cool too. Some damage calcs:

252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 302-356 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 131-155 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (obviously you won't want to stay in here, but the fact that Bisharp can only switch into its most spammable STAB one time is pretty huge)

if you predict well, you can even handle Mandibuzz:

252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 229-271 (54 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 165-195 (38.9 - 45.9%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

In my experience with it, usually the only thing I really miss with Choice Specs Gengar is its odd support movepool. No Substitute or Destiny Bond or Taunt is kind of annoying, but Trick usually makes up for this. And it's not like losing Gengar's Choice Specs is going to make it weak; strong STABs and coverage alongside base 130 Special Attack means that it will still hit hard without its item.

Pretty cool set. I encourage trying it out.

 

[Calm_Mind_Latias]

I thought this gen would be great for Gengar, but I honestly haven't found a use for him. Every time I think I need a ghost, I would be better off with Aegislash than Gengar, who not only has a stronger shadow ball, but has mixed coverage with sacred sword and priority in shadow sneak. Never seen an effective team with both Aegis and Gengar either.

It is an offensive answer to the standard Gliscor, unlike Aegislash.

Life Orb Gengar probably possess the most powerful neutral spammable attack, and it has fairly good defensive typing too.

 

[effyouzion]

It is an offensive answer to the standard Gliscor, unlike Aegislash.

Life Orb Gengar probably possess the most powerful neutral spammable attack, and it has fairly good defensive typing too.

I've used him since and I actually like him a lot more now. I found life orb + 3 attacks + d bond was the way to go.

I think my problem is that I was trying to use him like I did last gen. He's not a spin blocking ghost anymore, he's just a special attacker that happens to be ghost type.

 

[V1gilant3]

I'm sure this has been posted about in the last 20 pages, but I'm too lazy to look.

I've been running Specs Gengar lately with some pivot support to get it in a lot throughout the battle, and I'm loving it. It hits disgustingly hard and has so few safe switches into its Ghost STAB alone. The basically two Pokemon that can effectively switch into it (Chansey and Mandibuzz) both hate being Trick'd Choice Specs, so that's really cool too. Some damage calcs:

252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 302-356 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 131-155 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (obviously you won't want to stay in here, but the fact that Bisharp can only switch into its most spammable STAB one time is pretty huge)

if you predict well, you can even handle Mandibuzz:

252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 229-271 (54 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 165-195 (38.9 - 45.9%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

In my experience with it, usually the only thing I really miss with Choice Specs Gengar is its odd support movepool. No Substitute or Destiny Bond or Taunt is kind of annoying, but Trick usually makes up for this. And it's not like losing Gengar's Choice Specs is going to make it weak; strong STABs and coverage alongside base 130 Special Attack means that it will still hit hard without its item.

Pretty cool set. I encourage trying it out.

What would this set be?

 

[Gehenna]

What would this set be?

Probably sludge bomb/shadow ball/focus blast/trick w/ timid 252 sp. atk/252 spd/4 hp