Galvantula Didn't drop? It sticky webs and.......dies? At least picasso has other hazards and spore. And people complain about donphan and metagross last gen, i think gal becomes the 5th gen metagross. Calling it now.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
XY UU Beta Discussion (Read post #32)
- Thread starter Ace Emerald
- Start date
- Status
Well, I would say 8 of the 50 pokemon currently OU by usage are somewhat questionable to be there.
Klefki - I can see why people use this, but it's not that great. Swagplay is annoying, but it's not the only prankster pokemon to get it, and that's just luck. Its best set is probably Dual Screens, but I don't think it's good enough for OU.
Sableye - I had thought this was just OU for MegaKhan, and it's also not a bad pokemon, but it's defensive stats are just too lacking for it to be good enough. Without a massively powerful threat like MegaKhan that can basically only be countered by Sableye, I don't see why to consistently use this over others.
Smeargle - Defog, Deoxys leads that Taunt it, basically the only improvement that Smeargle got was Sticky Web, with enough nerfs that it should have been balanced out. It wasn't OU last gen for a reason, those reasons haven't really changed.
Donphan - I explained before, it may have a niche, but it's too damn small for 3.41% usage
Forretress - This thing is really bad now, honestly. With the Defog buff, people aren't forced to use spinners, it still loses to pretty much every spinblocker, and its utility niche is much less useful now
Galvantula - Sticky Web isn't as good as it was hyped to be and Galvantula's not that good outside of it, so questionable just like Smeargle
Tentacruel - I actually really like Tentacruel this gen, but the rain nerf hurt it a lot, and I don't think it has a place on many teams. Similarly to Forretress, it has a lot of trouble with spinblockers.
Salamence - Even though it was so good before, Fairies have made Mixmence much less potent, DDMence is basically outclassed by Charizard X, and Scarfmence is harder to clean with than before.
Also Infernape, but eh, I guess that's decent.
Klefki - I can see why people use this, but it's not that great. Swagplay is annoying, but it's not the only prankster pokemon to get it, and that's just luck. Its best set is probably Dual Screens, but I don't think it's good enough for OU.
Sableye - I had thought this was just OU for MegaKhan, and it's also not a bad pokemon, but it's defensive stats are just too lacking for it to be good enough. Without a massively powerful threat like MegaKhan that can basically only be countered by Sableye, I don't see why to consistently use this over others.
Smeargle - Defog, Deoxys leads that Taunt it, basically the only improvement that Smeargle got was Sticky Web, with enough nerfs that it should have been balanced out. It wasn't OU last gen for a reason, those reasons haven't really changed.
Donphan - I explained before, it may have a niche, but it's too damn small for 3.41% usage
Forretress - This thing is really bad now, honestly. With the Defog buff, people aren't forced to use spinners, it still loses to pretty much every spinblocker, and its utility niche is much less useful now
Galvantula - Sticky Web isn't as good as it was hyped to be and Galvantula's not that good outside of it, so questionable just like Smeargle
Tentacruel - I actually really like Tentacruel this gen, but the rain nerf hurt it a lot, and I don't think it has a place on many teams. Similarly to Forretress, it has a lot of trouble with spinblockers.
Salamence - Even though it was so good before, Fairies have made Mixmence much less potent, DDMence is basically outclassed by Charizard X, and Scarfmence is harder to clean with than before.
Also Infernape, but eh, I guess that's decent.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
Lando has a strong knock off too,Rest in peace chansey and latias lol.
| 2 | Blastoise | 13.74922% | 78459 | 12.967% | 65145 | 13.187% |
| 23 | Deoxys-Defense | 6.96423% | 39623 | 6.548% | 35633 | 7.213% |
Is that saying alot or what?!
| 23 | Deoxys-Defense | 6.96423% | 39623 | 6.548% | 35633 | 7.213% |
Is that saying alot or what?!
Blastoise can clear hazards and is VERY powerful. Deo-D is borderline set-up fodder and gets whacked by some very popular Pokemon like Bisharp and the aforementioned Blastoise.
EDIT: Just caught up on the thread and Bisharp is OU (or BL) now? Hm. Well, more room for Crawdaunt to shine. Now gimme my gorram Galvantula and we'll call it good.
EDIT: Just caught up on the thread and Bisharp is OU (or BL) now? Hm. Well, more room for Crawdaunt to shine. Now gimme my gorram Galvantula and we'll call it good.
The average showdown ladder player is the worst thing since 9/11 I'm fucking serious. How can you honestly be as incompetent as to not only allow Keldeo, Kyurem-B, Manaphy, Terrakion, Landorus, both Deoxys formes and Jirachi to become UU, but in the process fail to see how Trevenant, Donphan, Smeargle, Klefki, Sableye, Forretress, Tentacruel, Espeon, Breloom, Infernape, Salamence and even Greninja (#5 in OU usage!) are horribly outclassed and should drop ASAP.
I mean, I don't want to sound like some sort of elitist jerk but I honestly don't see why we're still basing the tiers off of overall usage, the lower ladder is so irredeemably shitty that it fails to see how Terrakion completely outclasses Infernape and how Landorus and Kyurem-B are some of the very best wallbreakers out there, among many other crimes (Hippowdon AKA one of the best walls out there is still UU ffs). In my opinion the council should consider filtering out the lower ladder usage stats when determining tier shifts but then again, who am I to say that? It just pisses me off that the tiers can't be optimalized due to the lower ladder I guess. /rant over
So anyways, I'll be having a lot of fun with Terrakion/Landorus/Staraptor. Although UU has a lot of stupidly good shit I don't think it can stand up to these titans, heh.
I mean, I don't want to sound like some sort of elitist jerk but I honestly don't see why we're still basing the tiers off of overall usage, the lower ladder is so irredeemably shitty that it fails to see how Terrakion completely outclasses Infernape and how Landorus and Kyurem-B are some of the very best wallbreakers out there, among many other crimes (Hippowdon AKA one of the best walls out there is still UU ffs). In my opinion the council should consider filtering out the lower ladder usage stats when determining tier shifts but then again, who am I to say that? It just pisses me off that the tiers can't be optimalized due to the lower ladder I guess. /rant over
So anyways, I'll be having a lot of fun with Terrakion/Landorus/Staraptor. Although UU has a lot of stupidly good shit I don't think it can stand up to these titans, heh.
Landorus and Terrakion in UU lmao. And to make things worse Hippowdon is in the same tier to support them. I would expect them to both go to BL pretty quickly IMO as I can see them wrecking shit in UU. Sand Force Landorus and Hippo will be crazy in UU, and CB or SD Terrakion will also going to decimate a lot of the tier.
Jirachi was kinda foreseeable, considering Metagross dropped and Steel/Psychic really isn't what it once was.
Bisharp was also rather predictable move up, being so high on the UU usage at the beginning and it is the best at its role of a really strong Defog counter.
Mainly I am just scared of Landorus and Terrakion.
Jirachi was kinda foreseeable, considering Metagross dropped and Steel/Psychic really isn't what it once was.
Bisharp was also rather predictable move up, being so high on the UU usage at the beginning and it is the best at its role of a really strong Defog counter.
Mainly I am just scared of Landorus and Terrakion.
Terrakion in UU? Never expected that one. Two great STABs, Bug/Steel/Poison coverage in his movepool, above average speed and attack... he won't be broken at least, with things like Slowbro and Mega Aggron and Doublade easily countering him, but I don't see him staying down here very long.
Landorus seems a bit more understandable, but since Drought and Drizzle are banned and not many people use Hail, it's fairly easy to keep sand up and that's how Landorus thrives. Even worse is that Terrakion can function in the sand too.
Jirachi in UU doesn't seem that bad to me. Dunno how rampant its Serene Shenanigans might be, but I'm cool with it here.
Have fun in OU, Bisharp. <3
Landorus seems a bit more understandable, but since Drought and Drizzle are banned and not many people use Hail, it's fairly easy to keep sand up and that's how Landorus thrives. Even worse is that Terrakion can function in the sand too.
Jirachi in UU doesn't seem that bad to me. Dunno how rampant its Serene Shenanigans might be, but I'm cool with it here.
Have fun in OU, Bisharp. <3
You seem to be unaware of Landorus' potential, which doesn't lie in its physical Sand Force sets, but rather in its special Sheer Force sets. With a Life Orb and good coverage plus a really nice speed tier, it hits like a truck and basically 2HKO's everything in UU bar Florges and Chansey (although Sludge Wave is an option for Florges and Hammer Arm could make for a desperate attempt to get rid of that fucken pink blob). Basically, if you manage to get Landorus in safely, something will die, and honestly, that's scary.
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 168-199 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
Definitely NOT a counter. Slowbro, yes. But not Mega Aggron.
I wouldn't be too worried about Sand Force Landorus. As powerful as its Earthquake is, there's a LOT of Pokemon that are straight-up immune to it, and Stone Edge is not too terrifying. Its Sheer Force set, I think, will always be Landorus' claim to fame and what makes him the terror he's known to be. If Keldeo hasn't been quickbanned yet I can't see Terrakion getting the same treatment. Keldeo had fucking rain-boosted shenanigans last gen and never saw the boot, Terrakion still has to stand on his four admittedly immensely powerful legs, but Keldeo's still trucking along in UU, so it's probably gonna be the Four-Legged Power Hour for a while yet. Hell, I think the two make a pretty nasty combo, taking out each other's counters.
Definitely NOT a counter. Slowbro, yes. But not Mega Aggron.
I wouldn't be too worried about Sand Force Landorus. As powerful as its Earthquake is, there's a LOT of Pokemon that are straight-up immune to it, and Stone Edge is not too terrifying. Its Sheer Force set, I think, will always be Landorus' claim to fame and what makes him the terror he's known to be. If Keldeo hasn't been quickbanned yet I can't see Terrakion getting the same treatment. Keldeo had fucking rain-boosted shenanigans last gen and never saw the boot, Terrakion still has to stand on his four admittedly immensely powerful legs, but Keldeo's still trucking along in UU, so it's probably gonna be the Four-Legged Power Hour for a while yet. Hell, I think the two make a pretty nasty combo, taking out each other's counters.
I'm rather concerned about seeing Terrakion of all things in UU as that is the most restrictive IMO for team building. The majority of its checks do not have reliable recovery unfortunately (Golurk and Nidoqueen) or requires two pokemon operating in tandem to check (slowbro + a rock resist). I only really see hippowdon dealing with it reliably which is rather unfortunate if you don't like sand's passive damage (Unless sand force hippo exists yet, but...really?)
Additionally, Terrakion can still hit some of its checks quite hard with coverage moves. Earthquake will put nidoqueen and doublade to the sword, while X-scissor is viable for Celebi.
Landorus-I I'm not too happy about either, but at least specially defensive Zapdos is still viable (takes 42% max from HP Ice based on the old SpD spread). Assault Vest can also help in checking, but that again depends on the viability of AV on pokemon in question (Snorlax might be a worthy choice, as long as it stays above 57% health to tank a focus blast). If Lando wants to run its old rock polish set, it will get walled hard by at least something depending on the last coverage move chosen, although I'd be more concerned about an all out attacker with U-turn. It can pretty much lay waste to any possible check with good teambuiliding (U-turn) + a pursuit trapper or even crazy ideas such as gravity to nail zapdos and rotom-H.
I kind of like the idea of jirachi even though flinchax is the first thing to come to mind. I remember a sun team I made for 5th gen OU which used 2 healing wish users to support a mixed venusaur, scarfed heatran and subsalac terrakion, so I want to try and find a couple of sweepers that would benefit from healing wish now that UU has ended up with so many users of the move, as opposed to just shaymin in 5th gen. Jirachi is easily the least broken drop of the 3, as it still has to contend with a fire and ground heavy meta rather than a supportive rain one.
Terrakion and Lando-I though...urgh. Crawdaunt is going to become a must for offense so they can be checked (CB Adaptability Aqua Jet to the rescue). The lack of priority really will allow those two to unleash all sorts of hell in UU...
Additionally, Terrakion can still hit some of its checks quite hard with coverage moves. Earthquake will put nidoqueen and doublade to the sword, while X-scissor is viable for Celebi.
Landorus-I I'm not too happy about either, but at least specially defensive Zapdos is still viable (takes 42% max from HP Ice based on the old SpD spread). Assault Vest can also help in checking, but that again depends on the viability of AV on pokemon in question (Snorlax might be a worthy choice, as long as it stays above 57% health to tank a focus blast). If Lando wants to run its old rock polish set, it will get walled hard by at least something depending on the last coverage move chosen, although I'd be more concerned about an all out attacker with U-turn. It can pretty much lay waste to any possible check with good teambuiliding (U-turn) + a pursuit trapper or even crazy ideas such as gravity to nail zapdos and rotom-H.
I kind of like the idea of jirachi even though flinchax is the first thing to come to mind. I remember a sun team I made for 5th gen OU which used 2 healing wish users to support a mixed venusaur, scarfed heatran and subsalac terrakion, so I want to try and find a couple of sweepers that would benefit from healing wish now that UU has ended up with so many users of the move, as opposed to just shaymin in 5th gen. Jirachi is easily the least broken drop of the 3, as it still has to contend with a fire and ground heavy meta rather than a supportive rain one.
Terrakion and Lando-I though...urgh. Crawdaunt is going to become a must for offense so they can be checked (CB Adaptability Aqua Jet to the rescue). The lack of priority really will allow those two to unleash all sorts of hell in UU...
Landorus @ Life Orb
Sheer Force
Naive Nature
108 Atk / 148 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast / Sludge Wave
- Knock Off
- U-turn
GG UU. Defensive checks are Shuckle, Cresselia and either Chansey or Florges depending on what you pick in the second slot. Pretty much everything else is 2HKOd at worst but the right combination of moves after SR. Latias OHKOed by Knock Off if it's 4HP, 220 HP Celebi OHKOed by U-turn after SR, Assault Vest Escavalier is 2HKOd by Knock Off + Earth Power. If SpDef Amoongus is lucky it may be able to take two Earth Powers but it has to hope it hasn't already Spored or you will beat it anyway. There are a few things like Crobat that can run a more defensive than normal set to avoid the 2HKO but most of them can be played around or U-turned out of, even the bulkiest Crobat is getting boned by Earth power if it Roosts at the wrong time. It's not unbeatable certainly but if you want to play stall this month I suggest you carry a Cresselia with Ice Beam.
I'm also looking forward to Doom Desire Jirachi + CB Haxorus shenanigans personally, but I don't think that will be broken. LO Doom Desire does 55% max to Mega Aggron so it still has room to eat an Outrage if it needs to. Terrakion may actually be a more potent partner, there's almost nothing that wants to eat an attack from it on top of the Doom Desire hit. You can even 2HKO Slowbro with a banded CC after the Doom Desire damage.
Sheer Force
Naive Nature
108 Atk / 148 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast / Sludge Wave
- Knock Off
- U-turn
GG UU. Defensive checks are Shuckle, Cresselia and either Chansey or Florges depending on what you pick in the second slot. Pretty much everything else is 2HKOd at worst but the right combination of moves after SR. Latias OHKOed by Knock Off if it's 4HP, 220 HP Celebi OHKOed by U-turn after SR, Assault Vest Escavalier is 2HKOd by Knock Off + Earth Power. If SpDef Amoongus is lucky it may be able to take two Earth Powers but it has to hope it hasn't already Spored or you will beat it anyway. There are a few things like Crobat that can run a more defensive than normal set to avoid the 2HKO but most of them can be played around or U-turned out of, even the bulkiest Crobat is getting boned by Earth power if it Roosts at the wrong time. It's not unbeatable certainly but if you want to play stall this month I suggest you carry a Cresselia with Ice Beam.
I'm also looking forward to Doom Desire Jirachi + CB Haxorus shenanigans personally, but I don't think that will be broken. LO Doom Desire does 55% max to Mega Aggron so it still has room to eat an Outrage if it needs to. Terrakion may actually be a more potent partner, there's almost nothing that wants to eat an attack from it on top of the Doom Desire hit. You can even 2HKO Slowbro with a banded CC after the Doom Desire damage.
Last edited:
Alright, so lets have a general analysis of each new drop shall we? (Note that this is all theorymonning since the server hasn't updated to make these drops legal in UU as of yet)
Landorus-I
This is probably the scariest Pokemon to have dropped down in this month's tier shift. It can run many effective sets, but what makes those sets extremely dangerous is the fact that they have completely different checks and counters, which can catch many people off guard and pave a way for Landorus or another teammate's sweep. Landorus's most effective set would definitely have to be the one that FastFlygon posted. It's a mixed set with the potential to 2HKO everything in the entire game. Only some of the most specially bulky Pokemon check it, but then they risk being crippled by Knock Off or just U-turned out into a check of their own. For example, if Landorus runs Sludge Wave, Snorlax and Chansey check it, but they can be Knocked Off on the switch and then U-turned out into a sturdy physical attacker to dispose of them. Furthermore, there are many different variants of mixed Landorus, so you are never safe until you know its exact set. Sand Force sets are a whole different story and can be seen through Team Preview (although some players would take advantage of this and run Sheer Force sets with Hippowdon as a partner), and they can be checked much more easily with the help of physical walls such as Hippowdon and Suicune. This isn't to say that they aren't dangerous, as they also have the capability to cripple everything with Knock Off or outright 2HKO many defensive behemoths like Vaporeon. Landorus can also run Rock Polish and Choice Scarf sets, but the former has an huge case of 4MSS (although with its counters gone, NOTHING can stop it ;-;) and the latter, while unexpected and fairly effective, faces some problems as many Pokemon are immune to or resist its main STABs and coverage moves.
With that said, I believe the best way to get rid of Landorus is to revenge kill it with something like a Keldeo or Crawdaunt, but then again, Landorus would just switch out and be alright :(
Terrakion
Terrakion is another really scary Pokemon to have dropped to UU, but it isn't as bad as Landorus since it can only run physical sets. However, Terrakion can still run a wide variety of effective sets in UU, which range from Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Life Orb, Rock Polish, Swords Dance, and Double Dance sets. Choice Band, while hitting like a nuke and not having ANY safe switch-ins, can be played around with smart prediction and resists like Hippowdon and the like. Choice Scarf is probably going to be one of Terrakion's more popular sets since it gets really good coverage with just its STABs and has a huge Attack even when unboosted. Life Orb sets, however, I believe to be the biggest problems, as it can switch moves and still hit extremely hard. Boosting sets are another scary sight, but Rock Polish isn't that strong and bulky Pokemon like Slowbro can be used to work around it while Swords Dance is fairly easy to revenge kill (although you're probably going to have to sack something to bring the revenge killer in). Boosting sets also face 4MSS, as without Earthquake, Nidoqueen, Jirachi, and Doublade wall it, and without X-Scissor, Slowbro and Celebi wall it. Double Dancing sets are extremely scary if you let them boost both their stats, but you would honestly have to be a prediction god or facing a bad player for that to happen, and they face even more 4MSS. Terrakion's Justified ability is also great and lets switch in on Knock Offs, but when you consider the fact that most Knock Off users can do a number on Terrakion (Aqua Jet Crawdaunt and Low Kick Weavile), it becomes a little less appealing. All in all, Terrakion is a really threatening Pokemon, but it does have a fair share of checks and even counters in UU, so it should be kept at bay compared to some of the other threats like Landorus and Haxorus.
Jirachi
Jirachi is probably the least threatening Pokemon to have joined UU, but it still is a force to be reckoned with. I don't think that it strictly outclasses Mew like people are saying it to, since it lacks Defog, Will-O-Wisp, and the ability to check Mega Medicham. It can however, run a multitude of other sets much better than Mew. These sets include Choice Scarf, Choice Band, Calm Mind, and a specially defensive cleric. Choiced sets are fun to use because Jirachi has the coverage to use them to great use, but its Speed and power hold it back from being as effective as some other Pokemon in the tier. Calm Mind sets are excellent late-game cleaners, but they have 4MSS and require a lot of support before they can sweep. Finally, specially defensive threats have the capability to wall many dangerous special attackers such as Mega Gardevoir, Latias, and even Keldeo, but Steel / Psychic typing isn't what it used to be and now has weaknesses to Ghost and Dark, which prevents Jirachi from doing well against the likes of Hydreigon. It can, however, provide Wish support and also paraflinch the life out of many Pokemon. Overall, Jirachi seems to be a versatile but fairly balanced Pokemon in the current metagame.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Also, the Bisharp ban will likely bring Latias to many teams, as it also is a great check to Terrakion and Landorus. Weavile and Crawdaunt are sure to get a lot more use, as they are the next best Knock Off spammer while also revenge killing new drops like Terrakion and Landorus. Hippowdon will also see much more use since it walls the two threats mentioned above. Lastly, Deoxys-D leads and Bisharp checks like Cobalion might decrease in usage, since the former now fears Defog much more while the latter is outclassed by Terrakion.
Landorus-I
This is probably the scariest Pokemon to have dropped down in this month's tier shift. It can run many effective sets, but what makes those sets extremely dangerous is the fact that they have completely different checks and counters, which can catch many people off guard and pave a way for Landorus or another teammate's sweep. Landorus's most effective set would definitely have to be the one that FastFlygon posted. It's a mixed set with the potential to 2HKO everything in the entire game. Only some of the most specially bulky Pokemon check it, but then they risk being crippled by Knock Off or just U-turned out into a check of their own. For example, if Landorus runs Sludge Wave, Snorlax and Chansey check it, but they can be Knocked Off on the switch and then U-turned out into a sturdy physical attacker to dispose of them. Furthermore, there are many different variants of mixed Landorus, so you are never safe until you know its exact set. Sand Force sets are a whole different story and can be seen through Team Preview (although some players would take advantage of this and run Sheer Force sets with Hippowdon as a partner), and they can be checked much more easily with the help of physical walls such as Hippowdon and Suicune. This isn't to say that they aren't dangerous, as they also have the capability to cripple everything with Knock Off or outright 2HKO many defensive behemoths like Vaporeon. Landorus can also run Rock Polish and Choice Scarf sets, but the former has an huge case of 4MSS (although with its counters gone, NOTHING can stop it ;-;) and the latter, while unexpected and fairly effective, faces some problems as many Pokemon are immune to or resist its main STABs and coverage moves.
With that said, I believe the best way to get rid of Landorus is to revenge kill it with something like a Keldeo or Crawdaunt, but then again, Landorus would just switch out and be alright :(
Terrakion
Terrakion is another really scary Pokemon to have dropped to UU, but it isn't as bad as Landorus since it can only run physical sets. However, Terrakion can still run a wide variety of effective sets in UU, which range from Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Life Orb, Rock Polish, Swords Dance, and Double Dance sets. Choice Band, while hitting like a nuke and not having ANY safe switch-ins, can be played around with smart prediction and resists like Hippowdon and the like. Choice Scarf is probably going to be one of Terrakion's more popular sets since it gets really good coverage with just its STABs and has a huge Attack even when unboosted. Life Orb sets, however, I believe to be the biggest problems, as it can switch moves and still hit extremely hard. Boosting sets are another scary sight, but Rock Polish isn't that strong and bulky Pokemon like Slowbro can be used to work around it while Swords Dance is fairly easy to revenge kill (although you're probably going to have to sack something to bring the revenge killer in). Boosting sets also face 4MSS, as without Earthquake, Nidoqueen, Jirachi, and Doublade wall it, and without X-Scissor, Slowbro and Celebi wall it. Double Dancing sets are extremely scary if you let them boost both their stats, but you would honestly have to be a prediction god or facing a bad player for that to happen, and they face even more 4MSS. Terrakion's Justified ability is also great and lets switch in on Knock Offs, but when you consider the fact that most Knock Off users can do a number on Terrakion (Aqua Jet Crawdaunt and Low Kick Weavile), it becomes a little less appealing. All in all, Terrakion is a really threatening Pokemon, but it does have a fair share of checks and even counters in UU, so it should be kept at bay compared to some of the other threats like Landorus and Haxorus.
Jirachi
Jirachi is probably the least threatening Pokemon to have joined UU, but it still is a force to be reckoned with. I don't think that it strictly outclasses Mew like people are saying it to, since it lacks Defog, Will-O-Wisp, and the ability to check Mega Medicham. It can however, run a multitude of other sets much better than Mew. These sets include Choice Scarf, Choice Band, Calm Mind, and a specially defensive cleric. Choiced sets are fun to use because Jirachi has the coverage to use them to great use, but its Speed and power hold it back from being as effective as some other Pokemon in the tier. Calm Mind sets are excellent late-game cleaners, but they have 4MSS and require a lot of support before they can sweep. Finally, specially defensive threats have the capability to wall many dangerous special attackers such as Mega Gardevoir, Latias, and even Keldeo, but Steel / Psychic typing isn't what it used to be and now has weaknesses to Ghost and Dark, which prevents Jirachi from doing well against the likes of Hydreigon. It can, however, provide Wish support and also paraflinch the life out of many Pokemon. Overall, Jirachi seems to be a versatile but fairly balanced Pokemon in the current metagame.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Also, the Bisharp ban will likely bring Latias to many teams, as it also is a great check to Terrakion and Landorus. Weavile and Crawdaunt are sure to get a lot more use, as they are the next best Knock Off spammer while also revenge killing new drops like Terrakion and Landorus. Hippowdon will also see much more use since it walls the two threats mentioned above. Lastly, Deoxys-D leads and Bisharp checks like Cobalion might decrease in usage, since the former now fears Defog much more while the latter is outclassed by Terrakion.
This is not true:Rohail said:
- +4 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 429-504 (108.8 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- +4 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celebi: 456-538 (112.8 - 133.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 0 SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 212-252 (65.4 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 176-210 (54.3 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 4 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 188-224 (58 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 4 SpA Slowbro Psychic vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 212-252 (65.4 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So, you can take a hit from all those Pokemon, get to +4 and OHKO them. Or you can even use Terrakion in sand with some HP EVs and Sub for some crazy results. Yeah, they may carry Thunder Wave, but you may carry Sub or even Lum Berry, so nothing is a full counter really. A simple 3 attacks + SD set with LO should do the trick most of the time though.
What exactly does landorus needs u-turn for anyway. Max hp celebi is 2hkoed by knock off already and i'd much rather have superpower ko chansey after knocking eviolite off and snorlax. I dont even know whats the point of investing in attack, 4 evs+life orb is enough. When theres nothing capable of switching on landorus, i dont see exactly what momentum is he building by u-turning.
I guess you could pair it with a Pursuit user to deal with Latias and help with Cresselia tho as you say I would rather just use Knock Off. Still Landorus threatens out so many things I guess U-turn is always good, especially since its would-be counters tend to get pressured by the same moves (actually now that I think about it U-turning out to Crawdaunt threatens both the bulky Ground- and Psychic-types as well as Chansey/Porygon2).
All in all I'm excited for these drops. Landorus is really scary but it's also not blazingly fast so it'll be interesting to see how it influences the current Bulky Offensive meta. Jirachi also has a balancing effect on the other two drops tho I can't say I'm thrilled to have to deal with Scarf Jirachi - time to run Zapdos I guess...
ps: hint hint run M-Manectric
252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 324-384 (101.2 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Manectric: 229-270 (81.4 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (and you 2hko back)
252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jirachi: 292-344 (85.6 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Not ideal obv but hey I'll take what I got.
LOL LANDORUS.
Terrakion should be fine in the tier tbh. It's definitely going to be a huge threat in UU, but I don't see it being so insanely broken yet. It has been UU on PO since their tier was created, and I've played a good amount of UU there. We have a lot of the same checks they did, including Hippowdon, Doublade, Slowbro, Claydol and Golurk I guess. We've also got solid offensive checks such as Mega Medicham (resists its dual STAB), Keldeo, Scarf Jirachi (jesus lord I am so happy it dropped), Latias, etc. It remains to be seen of course what kind of effects it will have on the metagame. One thing is for sure: all of the people relying on the Florges/Mega Aggron to back up their team defensively will want to either add in another Pokemon or make sure their offensive core can handle it.
Like I said, I'm really happy Jirachi dropped. I've been wanting to try out Iron Head Jirachi with Toxic Spikes lately, which sounds super duper fun. It drops the extra chance of the opponent not moving from paralysis in favor of getting a lot of chip damage off with Iron Head and allowing Toxic to kill the opponent. Definitely going to be tons of fun to use.
Also both happy and sad that Bisharp left UU. On one hand, we've lost our best answer to Defog and half my teams are now illegal, but on the other hand, I can drop fucking Cobalion from a lot of my teams as well. God, that thing was so trash outside of handling Bisharp. Latias also just got a lot more viable, and those people running HP Fighting Latias in order to lure in Bisharp can use that move slot for something more viable, so that's cool.
This tier change is going to make UU so much more fun omg.
Terrakion should be fine in the tier tbh. It's definitely going to be a huge threat in UU, but I don't see it being so insanely broken yet. It has been UU on PO since their tier was created, and I've played a good amount of UU there. We have a lot of the same checks they did, including Hippowdon, Doublade, Slowbro, Claydol and Golurk I guess. We've also got solid offensive checks such as Mega Medicham (resists its dual STAB), Keldeo, Scarf Jirachi (jesus lord I am so happy it dropped), Latias, etc. It remains to be seen of course what kind of effects it will have on the metagame. One thing is for sure: all of the people relying on the Florges/Mega Aggron to back up their team defensively will want to either add in another Pokemon or make sure their offensive core can handle it.
Like I said, I'm really happy Jirachi dropped. I've been wanting to try out Iron Head Jirachi with Toxic Spikes lately, which sounds super duper fun. It drops the extra chance of the opponent not moving from paralysis in favor of getting a lot of chip damage off with Iron Head and allowing Toxic to kill the opponent. Definitely going to be tons of fun to use.
Also both happy and sad that Bisharp left UU. On one hand, we've lost our best answer to Defog and half my teams are now illegal, but on the other hand, I can drop fucking Cobalion from a lot of my teams as well. God, that thing was so trash outside of handling Bisharp. Latias also just got a lot more viable, and those people running HP Fighting Latias in order to lure in Bisharp can use that move slot for something more viable, so that's cool.
This tier change is going to make UU so much more fun omg.
I'm not sure exactly what Doublade sets the kids are running these days, but:
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 118-140 (36.6 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Doublade Gyro Ball (129 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 330-390 (102.1 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Woah.
A fully physically defensive spread might be a bit much, but a 252 HP / 120 Atk / 136 Def Relaxed spread actually looks pretty good for Eviolite Doublade. It hits a jump point in Def, which also happens to be just enough to guarantee that CB Terrakion's Earthquake will never 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Meanwhile, the Atk investment gives it about as much power as an Adamant Talonflame, which isn't half bad.
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 118-140 (36.6 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Doublade Gyro Ball (129 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 330-390 (102.1 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Woah.
A fully physically defensive spread might be a bit much, but a 252 HP / 120 Atk / 136 Def Relaxed spread actually looks pretty good for Eviolite Doublade. It hits a jump point in Def, which also happens to be just enough to guarantee that CB Terrakion's Earthquake will never 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Meanwhile, the Atk investment gives it about as much power as an Adamant Talonflame, which isn't half bad.
Whoopsies. I must've been looking at the wrong calcs.
Doublade tho.
Some observations based on my joke account/team (SaunterDownwards):
Why is Wobbuffett UU? I sometimes bring it into OU matches and it still makes people forfeit in rage as much as ever. Don't send it out on Choiced Dark types (especially Crawdaunt) and you'll be fine.
There's a lot of bad Baton Pass players who give Scolipede a moveset that goes something like this: Iron Defense, Substitute, Baton Pass, Swords Dance.
Crawdaunt and Bisharp are among the strongest Pokemon in the tier. Use them. I think Choice Band Crawdaunt Knock Off can even do things like OHKO Wobbuffett. Bisharp is no slouch even with its limited type coverage.
A dismaying amount of players have nothing to stop Calm Mind Suicune or Curselax with Restalk (not even phazing). You'd be surprised how often you can get away with just one attack even though it's so easy to stop with good teambuilding.
Why is Wobbuffett UU? I sometimes bring it into OU matches and it still makes people forfeit in rage as much as ever. Don't send it out on Choiced Dark types (especially Crawdaunt) and you'll be fine.
There's a lot of bad Baton Pass players who give Scolipede a moveset that goes something like this: Iron Defense, Substitute, Baton Pass, Swords Dance.
Crawdaunt and Bisharp are among the strongest Pokemon in the tier. Use them. I think Choice Band Crawdaunt Knock Off can even do things like OHKO Wobbuffett. Bisharp is no slouch even with its limited type coverage.
A dismaying amount of players have nothing to stop Calm Mind Suicune or Curselax with Restalk (not even phazing). You'd be surprised how often you can get away with just one attack even though it's so easy to stop with good teambuilding.
i thought psycho cut and bullet punch were illegal together so you had to run zen headbutt. either way, mega medicham is good
Pretty sure you are right about the illegality. I ran Zen Headbutt on my medi, but heard psycho cut in an earlier post and got confused and posted that instead, my bad. (That's what I get for posting that late at night :|)
Edit: So psycho is legal, regardless I had zen on my medi
Last edited:
- Status