Agreed on the power behind it. It's really comes down to coverage over raw power. OHKOing Deo-D is truly marvelous after all.
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Pokémon Gyarados
- Thread starter azureleaf17
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Agreed on the power behind it. It's really comes down to coverage over raw power. OHKOing Deo-D is truly marvelous after all.
I love my gyarados, sometimes it's my MVP by far.
I use...
Gyarados Leftovers
252 atk, 252+ speed
Taunt
Earthquake
Waterfall
Dragon Dance
Love throwing this guy against the like of ferrothorn and skarmory. Switch-ins to skarmory will ALWAYS grant me another dragon dance, even though, to be honest, if the opposing skarmory has brave bird and rocky helmet, the match up isn't very good for me.
The only thing that can completely wall it is Rotom-W, which is a thorn on my team... but I have other ways of dealing with Rotom.
I just feel that without leftovers, I really don't have too much bulk with gyarados. I usually through this guy against the likes of Keldeo for a setup, so I need the leftovers to survive a couple more switch-ins if necessary.
I use...
Gyarados Leftovers
252 atk, 252+ speed
Taunt
Earthquake
Waterfall
Dragon Dance
Love throwing this guy against the like of ferrothorn and skarmory. Switch-ins to skarmory will ALWAYS grant me another dragon dance, even though, to be honest, if the opposing skarmory has brave bird and rocky helmet, the match up isn't very good for me.
The only thing that can completely wall it is Rotom-W, which is a thorn on my team... but I have other ways of dealing with Rotom.
I just feel that without leftovers, I really don't have too much bulk with gyarados. I usually through this guy against the likes of Keldeo for a setup, so I need the leftovers to survive a couple more switch-ins if necessary.
Why are you using leftovers when you use full speed and attack spread? Go for Life Orb, or Expert Belt. With 100 base SpDef and 95 health and resisting both of its STABs shouldn't Gyarados be able to tank Keldeo's hits? The only thing I'd fear of Keldeo is his Scald.
If you want to avoid being waller by Rotom, and be able to take its electric hits a bit better, use the mega stone.
Gyarados is one of those jerks in the battlefield. It runs Dragon Dance, that's a staple. But the three more moves in slot are a question. Gyarados gained that bulk it needs, making it set up, then KILL later.
But, before we break down to the moves, adding the Dark typing to Gyarados is very ABYSSMAL on his part. Reducing his weakness for Electricity is good(I hear you over there). In exchange, You get backfired for it(Like A LOT). Being a part Dark-type makes survivability hard. Bugs moves can toy you over(U-Turn-Volt Switch COMBO), faster Psychics that are armed with Focus Blast can rip you apart(Alakazam), Grass types won't twitch, for their arsenals can knock you down, Fighting-types with Offensive setup+Priority will enjoy the carnage of killing a Mega tank, Fairies would be happy to rain down Special Nukes. Not to mention, this guy has a near-worthless ability, for his STABS don't match the abilities that resist damage of certain types, forcing him to go for other coverage moves, which obviously won't benefit from STAB. How I wish he was turned to a Water-Dragon type, so that only Dragon types and Fairy types could be effective on him. Pranksters would laugh as they Will-o-Wisp you to reduce attack, and sap your health.
But despite for his shortcomings, this guy is a force to be reckoned with. Without setup, it would take three hits to knock him down with his bulk. Again, he has access to dragon dance, which makes him move faster and hit harder for the next turn. He has a WIDE movepool that makes him run on various sets. His team could run Scolipede, Iron Defense, Sword's Dance, Speed Boost AND Baton PASS!!!<---- yeah, THAT BROKEN move. Doing this could make him MASSACRE the battlefield, thus, without using Dragon Dance, having four offensive moves at the same time(Obviously, to have use for his Mold Breaker), have a bulky defense, have a GODLIKE speed, and possess an outstanding attack power if done right.(Prepare your PHAZERS, everyone). Gyarados could run Thunder Wave to stop heavy setup on the opposition, switch to an ally, then return later. The only thing this guy lacks is a decent Priority move, which could destroy Sashers.
Overall, Gyarados is a good Mega, but not the best. With a proper team, this guy can wreck games. But the only thing hindering him is his typing and ability. How I wish this Magikarp friend of ours would have given an ability that would make him a large threat without having that much hassle on the setup.
But, before we break down to the moves, adding the Dark typing to Gyarados is very ABYSSMAL on his part. Reducing his weakness for Electricity is good(I hear you over there). In exchange, You get backfired for it(Like A LOT). Being a part Dark-type makes survivability hard. Bugs moves can toy you over(U-Turn-Volt Switch COMBO), faster Psychics that are armed with Focus Blast can rip you apart(Alakazam), Grass types won't twitch, for their arsenals can knock you down, Fighting-types with Offensive setup+Priority will enjoy the carnage of killing a Mega tank, Fairies would be happy to rain down Special Nukes. Not to mention, this guy has a near-worthless ability, for his STABS don't match the abilities that resist damage of certain types, forcing him to go for other coverage moves, which obviously won't benefit from STAB. How I wish he was turned to a Water-Dragon type, so that only Dragon types and Fairy types could be effective on him. Pranksters would laugh as they Will-o-Wisp you to reduce attack, and sap your health.
But despite for his shortcomings, this guy is a force to be reckoned with. Without setup, it would take three hits to knock him down with his bulk. Again, he has access to dragon dance, which makes him move faster and hit harder for the next turn. He has a WIDE movepool that makes him run on various sets. His team could run Scolipede, Iron Defense, Sword's Dance, Speed Boost AND Baton PASS!!!<---- yeah, THAT BROKEN move. Doing this could make him MASSACRE the battlefield, thus, without using Dragon Dance, having four offensive moves at the same time(Obviously, to have use for his Mold Breaker), have a bulky defense, have a GODLIKE speed, and possess an outstanding attack power if done right.(Prepare your PHAZERS, everyone). Gyarados could run Thunder Wave to stop heavy setup on the opposition, switch to an ally, then return later. The only thing this guy lacks is a decent Priority move, which could destroy Sashers.
Overall, Gyarados is a good Mega, but not the best. With a proper team, this guy can wreck games. But the only thing hindering him is his typing and ability. How I wish this Magikarp friend of ours would have given an ability that would make him a large threat without having that much hassle on the setup.
>near-worthless ability
are you high ?
mold breaker is one of the best abilities in the game. it's perfectly tailored for gyarados because his would-be counters rely on their abilities to stop him. water absorb, levitate, storm drain, thick fat, unaware, sturdy, even magic bounce for the occasional taunt variant no longer matter. yes, we all wish mega grrados were an OP water/dragon type, but it isn't.
IMHO saying something is good after a scolipede baton pass is a useless comment. i already know that x pokémon would be better with a hypothetical +6 Atk / +6 Def / +6 Speed as it enters the field.
thunder wave on mega gyarados is something you should try out and then comment on, because as you said gyarados has the bulk to make a support set work. he's versatile, despite how deadly the standard DD + ice fang + EQ + waterfall is on its own; he can fill a few different roles, despite the lack of dark-STAB, and because of his incredible ability. mono-water DD resttalk works, in no small part thanks to mold breaker.
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To be honest, he's one of the top 5 Megas out there. Granted, I fully agree that giving him Dark Typing was absolutely sad; he can use the the type change purely for advantage.
Mind games pre evolution is what gives him this awesome chance to set up, taunt, or go all out.
Say with Alakazam, if you predict the FB, don't mega, DD, and take the hit. Not only have you set up for a near Win Condition, you can either remain as Regular Gyarados for Moxie Boosts (if you run it) or continue to set up, it's pretty great.
Granted, burns are something that can't be avoided, but to wreck stall and still kick ass the above set works wonders:
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Intimidate / Moxie
Adamant Nature
252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 HP
~Dragon Dance
~Taunt / Ice Fang (Depends on Team)
~Waterfall
~Earthquake
Supreme coverage; whilst Skarmory will wall you anyway, or Dragons but that's what your other teamstes are for. Taunt to prevent whirlwind, set up, muscle past it. If you get to taunt on the switch for a Prankster user, you're golden.
Of course, proper team management and composition. As with all Pokemon.
But is it really one of the top 5 megas? Its my favorite mega to use but I believe that both Charizards, Mawile, Pinsir Venusaur and T-tar megas are better.
As for people disliking the Dark type, it doesn't do Gyarados too much good, as two resistances in Bug and Fight turn into weaknesses. But you can pull mind games thanks to that change and being able to resist Ghost and Dark is a huge plus. Dragon/Water would be too OP, especially with Gyarados' amazing bulk.
As for people disliking the Dark type, it doesn't do Gyarados too much good, as two resistances in Bug and Fight turn into weaknesses. But you can pull mind games thanks to that change and being able to resist Ghost and Dark is a huge plus. Dragon/Water would be too OP, especially with Gyarados' amazing bulk.
I definitely think Gyarados is better than Mawile and Pinsir currently. Sure, relatively Gyarados' power output pales compared to these two (which is crazy to think about) but Gyarados is more consistent, varied, and by far has the best base form in terms of typing and stats, able to delay megavolving to often spectacular results. Mawile's downfall is speed and reliance on Sucker Punch, which can be played around. Pinsir is by far the most frail with the worst typing and basically has only one set, and the meta has adapted to him well. He just doesn't get enough coverage with his moves as there are far too many aerial Electric types now, and of course, Skarmory. Gyarados on the otherhand, thanks to Mold Breaker, is walled by essentially nothing. Venusaur doesn't resist Ice Fang any more, Rotom-W isn't immune to Earthquake, Ice Fang pierces Dragonite Multiscale, and he's unaware of Unaware. Water also, as we all know, is one of the best offensive types, resisted by so little and easy to provide coverage for. And one of my favorite aspects as was mentioned is Taunt. Walls like Chansey and Skarmory become set up bait allowing for extra dances to just flatten their team. Also, take notice that in addition to his bulk his typing is actually a boon as it resists 5 types of priority! Sucker Punch, Shadow Sneak, Bullet Punch, Aqua Jet and Ice Shard and he isnt weak to Flying. This is honestly severely overlooked. He is weak to Mach Punch, but he isnt so frail to die at full health from one, and even this can be played around if you stck in his base form. He's the perfect set up sweeper against both Stall and HO. As great as he is though, Tyranitar and CharX are better Dragon Dancers in a few regards. For Tyranitar he has an even more useful base form than Gyarados, and as strong and bulky as Gyarados is, Tyranitar is just stupid bulky and strong, more so thanks to the sand he brings. And while Gyarados has the moves he needs, Tyranitar's movepool is like a casino buffet. He has something for everyone and can even go mixed for certain walls. And CharX is the premier S rank sweeper in the tier, blessed with a useful ability and beautiful typing both offensively and defensively, has the best base speed to start with, incredibly high BP STABs, and access to Roost and status. He's the epitome of what sweepers hope to be like. But yeah, Gyarados is one of the best megas, just a bit overlooked.
For the offensive dragon dance, i'm not sure bounce is a good example of how much power it loses, because Regular Gyara gets stab and Megados doesn't.
I'd say Gyarados is not an easy mega to use, and that probably explains why we see more uses of Mawile and Pinsir, who have well known sets and are easy to use. The biggest downside to Gyarados is its rather poor moveset. In his base form, his flying typing doesn't give it any offensive advantages as it doesn't have any good Flying moves, and the same thing with the Mega and the lack of a proper Dark move. The other disappointing thing is the lack of recovery, despite being a Flying Pokemon, it doesn't get roost. While Gyarados can run different EV spreads that makes it function in different ways, its attacks are almost always predictable (EQ, Waterfall and Ice Fang) so it can be played around. Mawile on the other hand, has access to the Elemental punches/fangs, Play Rough and Iron Head, and it has a superior typing and enough bulk to survive and hit back, and it doesn't mind getting paralyzed and can't get poisoned while a DD Gyarados is shut down by a Burn or a paralyze.
For the adapting metagame, I would say that it is. MPinsir and MVenusaur have both fallen out of stardom and are not nearly as good as they used to be. MGyarados, on the other hand, was able to shift and adapt with the meta a lot better. IMO, M/Gyarados is one of the only Pokemon with a MEvo that is able to use BOTH forms at the same time to its advantage and doesn't have to go straight for the change. You can stay as a normal Gyarados as long as you can to keep the type advantages while setting up and then switch over to MGyara to sweep, stop any Rotom-W/BP Teams/Stall Teams cold, or continue setting up with a new defensive typing that could be used to your advantage.
If we had to rank Mega Pokemon on their viability, I would put MGyara right under Charizard X, MMawile, and MScizor.
I actually run Facade over Ice Fang sometimes on my Mega Gyarados because he's like a magnet for burns. It's funny.
Sure the coverage of Ice Fang is more useful and facade isn't completely reliable but I got so frustrated at getting my Gyara burnt/poisoned/paralyzed that I just threw Facade on him. Also, a neutral Facade is a little stronger than a 2x effective Ice Fang anyway.
Sure the coverage of Ice Fang is more useful and facade isn't completely reliable but I got so frustrated at getting my Gyara burnt/poisoned/paralyzed that I just threw Facade on him. Also, a neutral Facade is a little stronger than a 2x effective Ice Fang anyway.
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Plus it may be a better choice against Quagsire plus Water/Normal is decent at worst coverage.
And he still has Earthquake or Stone Edge in that extra move slot so it's not entirely bad.
Mold breaker Ice Fang is a must have to beat Dragonite. Also, its nice to land 1hko on Garchomp and fuck with the Lati@s twins.
Having looked over him for a while, I'm interested in trying out Mega Gyarados for myself. Assuming a standard DD set, what kinds of teammates would better suit him? Aside from obvious resistance coverage, I'm trying to decide whether I want defensive teammates to cover hazard support and setting status, or offensive teammates to wear down/beat his checks and counters.
Special note to teammates that can support Base form as well, since Gyarados is one of the few Pokemon that can afford, and many times will want to put off Mega-evolving for a bit.
Special note to teammates that can support Base form as well, since Gyarados is one of the few Pokemon that can afford, and many times will want to put off Mega-evolving for a bit.
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 196-232 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
???
Yeah I meant the storm drain sea slug but even for that EQ will probably suffice. Umm does Facade not factor the attack drop from a burn? It does right unless it has guts...
But what 2 attacks would you guys choose on a Dragon Dance Taunt Megados? I've been really digging taunt to avoid whirlwind/WoW/spore and even screw pure support no attack Mons. For a second water/normal coverage seemed to be the answer I overlooked but with Return/Frustration not Facade...
Facade is no longer affected by the burn drop.
Waterfall is definitely a must but I think the second move depends on what you have on your team and what you think would be more important coverage. Earthquake, Stone Edge and Ice Fang are the best possible options.
Mold Breaker goes through Storm Drain anyways.
I like mega gyarados but I feel it suffers from the same fate that mega garchomp does. The base form can arguably do everything it can do (sometimes better) without taking up a mega slot.
The added bulk and the typing mind games are cool but I think we can all agree that regular gyarados does bulky sets better thanks to typing and most importantly, leftovers. The only thing mega gyarados does better is the late game cleaner role, but pretty much every time I do that with it I could have done the exact same thing without mega evolving. Bounce being STAB is also something I miss on mega gyarados. It's a good pokemon for sure but it suffers from a worse typing, both offensively and defensively. The only thing I like about the typing is the removal of a crippling electric weakness, but I won't be staying in on powerful electric attackers anyway unless I have like two DDs setup because it still takes heavy damage. I definitely don't consider in the top 5 megas that aren't banned. If I had to rank it I would put it above the likes of banette, ampharos and abomasnow, but below the usual threats like both zards, mawile, pinsir, gardevoir, heracross and scizor.
I guess the best thing about mega gyarados is mold breaker for rotom-w, but you can't OHKO the physically defensive variant without being at +1 and even then it's only a risky 50% chance putting you at a huge risk of getting burned. Scarf version just burns for free before going down. Basically I don't like staying in on a healthy rotom-w anyway. I've done this myself to many mega gyarados. They think mold breaker EQ will KO rotom but I survive and they get burned and then gyarados is useless.
I don't think mega gyarados needs anything, it's fine as it is, but I prefer regular gyarados. The only thing I dislike about regular gyarados in comparison is fucking bounce having fucking 85% accuracy. Who the hell thought of that? I would honestly take 100% accuracy over the 30% paralysis chance, just so you can guarantee the free turn of leftovers + a hit.
The added bulk and the typing mind games are cool but I think we can all agree that regular gyarados does bulky sets better thanks to typing and most importantly, leftovers. The only thing mega gyarados does better is the late game cleaner role, but pretty much every time I do that with it I could have done the exact same thing without mega evolving. Bounce being STAB is also something I miss on mega gyarados. It's a good pokemon for sure but it suffers from a worse typing, both offensively and defensively. The only thing I like about the typing is the removal of a crippling electric weakness, but I won't be staying in on powerful electric attackers anyway unless I have like two DDs setup because it still takes heavy damage. I definitely don't consider in the top 5 megas that aren't banned. If I had to rank it I would put it above the likes of banette, ampharos and abomasnow, but below the usual threats like both zards, mawile, pinsir, gardevoir, heracross and scizor.
I guess the best thing about mega gyarados is mold breaker for rotom-w, but you can't OHKO the physically defensive variant without being at +1 and even then it's only a risky 50% chance putting you at a huge risk of getting burned. Scarf version just burns for free before going down. Basically I don't like staying in on a healthy rotom-w anyway. I've done this myself to many mega gyarados. They think mold breaker EQ will KO rotom but I survive and they get burned and then gyarados is useless.
I don't think mega gyarados needs anything, it's fine as it is, but I prefer regular gyarados. The only thing I dislike about regular gyarados in comparison is fucking bounce having fucking 85% accuracy. Who the hell thought of that? I would honestly take 100% accuracy over the 30% paralysis chance, just so you can guarantee the free turn of leftovers + a hit.
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Bulky Leftovers Gyarados is really cool, but as a sweeper/cleaner/whatever you want to call it, Mega Gyarados (or, rather, having the option to Mega Evolve) is definitely superior.
The typing mind games are amazing -- they often lead to it getting multiple Dragon Dances or getting one in a scenario where it otherwise couldn't (e.g. against a Stone Edge user, like Tyranitar). The worse typing doesn't really matter defensively, because it's generally only going to Mega Evolve when it wants to remove a weakness (so it can set up) or when it starts to attack. Speaking of setting up, the increase in bulk is pretty ridiculous (+30 to both base defenses, not to mention it still gets to use Intimidate). Mega Gyarados is also a lot stronger then Gyarados, unless Gyarados has a Life Orb, which cuts into its bulk even more. OHKOing Rotom-W (after SR or a bit of prior damage, which isn't too unreasonable to expect) is huge, and Mold Breaker lets it pull off other shenanigans like beating Quagsire and OHKOing Dragonite through Multiscale. Scarf Rotom-W is also pretty rare.
I just tweeted about it! All credit goes to Death Phenomeno.
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