Great discussion we have going here. I've already learned some stuff by reading everything posted so far. Actually, I haven't really learned anything new, but this discussion has made me think differently about several things I already knew. That's why I love CAP project discussions so much!
But after reading everything in the thread, and thinking long and hard about the concept, I just don't think we can directly address the concept as it is specifically worded. I think we are going to have to pull back a little bit, and try to address the "spirit of the concept" instead. Otherwise, I think we are setting ourselves up for a lot of frustration in future threads.
Deck Knight,
Ignus and a few others in this thread have posted some great "obvious fundamentals" about fainting that tend to get forgotten in discussions like this. And because the concept overtly states that we want to dissuade the opponent from fainting our pokemon, we have been assuming that it is actually POSSIBLE to do that with the existing mechanics of Pokemon. I am beginning to come around to the thinking that it is IMPOSSIBLE. We are not going to get around the following inevitable fact:
Fainting is bad for your pokemon and your team, and good for your opponent.
While there are some isolated situations where you may actually want your pokemon to die or your opponent may want you to live -- you generally cannot engineer those situations, and if you could build a pokemon that is better off dead than alive, you have likely built a really bad pokemon.
The only way to reasonably create situations where the opponent is discouraged from fainting CAP19 would be to make a custom move or ability that has some huge effect when the pokemon faints -- and this project is Create-A-Pokemon, not Create-A-Move or Create-An-Ability.
We are not going to create any more new mechanics in CAP. And we certainly are not going to create a new game mechanic as a magic wand to make an impossible concept become possible.
Yes, we created some new moves and abilities on a few DP CAP projects to achieve certain effects to enhance the pokemon's ability to fulfill their concepts. But since that time, the CAP project has matured and so has the game of Pokemon. Our current stance is that the game of pokemon is overflowing with thousands of mechanics and we must use those existing mechanics unaltered.
So, since we can't bend the mechanics of the game, I think we're gonna have to bend the concept a little bit. Rather than trying to make a pokemon the opponent does not want to faint, we should strive to build a pokemon around one or more "fainting strategies".
Building around a "fainting strategy" is not a case where we WANT the pokemon to faint. We would build a pokemon that is likely or even guaranteed to faint in certain predictable situations, and in spite of knowing this likely bad outcome (ie. fainting), we STILL want to include the pokemon as a valuable member of our OU team, and use the fainting in the BEST WAY POSSIBLE.
A classic example is Suicide Lead Deoxys. Do you LIKE that Deo usually dies at the start of the match? Hell no. If Deo-S could have 150 base HP and tank lots of hits and still get off blistering fast screens, hazards, and Taunts -- it would be even better. In fact, it would be broken as hell and wouldn't bother with a suicide lead set, but that's not the point. The point is: It's not like we enjoy the "suicide" requirement.
Yes, with the suicide lead strategy, the act of fainting is not always as bad a thing as it normally is with other pokemon and strategies, because you may get extra turns of Taunt or Screens or whatever for later pokemon. But don't make the mistake of thinking that Deo's frailty is somehow a good thing, that would be preferred over better defenses. Deo's frailty is a limitation. Period. But the rest of the pokemon and moveset allows it to be a valuable member of OU teams, and teambuilders are able to include the fact that Deo will likely faint as part of their team strategy.
It seems like most people agree a suicide lead is not terribly interesting for CAP 19, so we need to come up with a different framework, that still incorporates one or more forms of "fainting strategies".
So I'm working along the lines of the following definition (reworded from earlier):
A pokemon that is likely or even guaranteed to faint in certain predictable strategic situations and the pokemon or its teammates can use the fainting in the best way possible.
Clarifications:
"likely to faint in certain predictable strategic situations" -- This does not necessarily mean ALL situations, or even MOST situations. But it should not be contained to merely rare, random, or gimmick situations.
"best way possible" -- This does not mean the fainting is a GOOD thing for the pokemon or team, it just means there are aspects to the act of fainting that makes it less negative than it would be for most other pokemon in the same situation
Perhaps, I'm wrong about the impossibility of the current wording of the concept. But it seems like others in this thread are coming to similar conclusions. Both
Deck Knight and
bugmaniacbob seem to be having big reservations as well (correct me if I am misreading you guys).
I don't think the concept itself is bad or anything. I just think we need to interpret it a bit more liberally and look to the spirit of the concept, which, in my opinion, is putting a new spin on the strategic impact of fainting in battle.