Pokémon Greninja

[StairFall]

Flying gem isn't even in the game so how is this set going to work. Physical Greninja at all just isn't really that good and special Greninja is better.

Also physical Greninja is more overrated.

That's my bad, saw acrobatics and my mind just went gen V autopilot when suggesting changes.

Anyway on to more relevant sets I've been musing about using spikes in combination with taunt to shut down defoggers while setting up hazards on top of them, and still using Life Orb instead of focus sash to have the power to defeat most of them with hydro pump + ice beam.

 

[altimis]

I haven't read the entire 53 pages of this, but I have a Physical build that I find rather entertaining. I am also looking for any feedback on it.

Hexproof Ninja

Greninja@ -
Ability: Protean

EVs 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature

- Acrobatics
- Shadow Sneak
- Spikes
- Protect / U-Turn

Set Description:
The set utilizes predictions, speed and raw power to overcome some of Greninja's current counters. As a summary, most people switch unprofitably for them. Most people bring in Special Sweepers / Walls against him and just fall to a 110 STAB Acrobatics (some in two hits, but you're faster). This does an incredible amount of damage against Mega Venasaur which is popular in my meta. Once they are stable, you utilize a combination of your own moves to dodge opposing moves while dealing damage. Each move grants Greninja an immunity to at least one type, this is where predictions are key.

This makes short work of Lucario and Breloom. Shadow Sneak first, then Acrobatics; if they use Mach Punch they miss both times.
This can set up against most electric types by using spikes and protect.
Fire, Rock, and Ground have difficulty hitting him as long as you can predict better than your opponent.

Biggest counters to him are Rock or Steel physical walls. While they more-than-likely can't hit you, they can setup against you.
Prankster / Gale Wings will make short work of this Greninja as it needs all the power and speed it can.
This Greninja is definitely a glass cannon; use with care.

Other options:
You can hold a lum berry if you plan on not using him as your lead and switching in on a status. That works less for me than holding nothing.
You can swap Protect for another move, I have tried Toxic and U-Turn myself (U-Turn is better). You could also use Rock Slide, I have it on my Triple Battles Greninja, but I haven't tried it with this one.
You can give it a Jolly nature, I recently got one that is Jolly and am indifferent. I haven't had a battle where that's mattered yet.

Personally, I have been using this for the last few months, and I am in love with it. I finally have a video of me using it yesterday. It had some help, but you can see how much work he puts into the team...
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-137590730

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

I haven't read the entire 53 pages of this, but I have a Physical build that I find rather entertaining. I am also looking for any feedback on it.

Hexproof Ninja

Greninja@ -
Ability: Protean

EVs 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature

- Acrobatics
- Shadow Sneak
- Spikes
- Protect / U-Turn

Set Description:
The set utilizes predictions, speed and raw power to overcome some of Greninja's current counters. As a summary, most people switch unprofitably for them. Most people bring in Special Sweepers / Walls against him and just fall to a 110 STAB Acrobatics (some in two hits, but you're faster). This does an incredible amount of damage against Mega Venasaur which is popular in my meta. Once they are stable, you utilize a combination of your own moves to dodge opposing moves while dealing damage. Each move grants Greninja an immunity to at least one type, this is where predictions are key.

This makes short work of Lucario and Breloom. Shadow Sneak first, then Acrobatics; if they use Mach Punch they miss both times.
This can set up against most electric types by using spikes and protect.
Fire, Rock, and Ground have difficulty hitting him as long as you can predict better than your opponent.

Biggest counters to him are Rock or Steel physical walls. While they more-than-likely can't hit you, they can setup against you.
Prankster / Gale Wings will make short work of this Greninja as it needs all the power and speed it can.
This Greninja is definitely a glass cannon; use with care.

Other options:
You can hold a lum berry if you plan on not using him as your lead and switching in on a status. That works less for me than holding nothing.
You can swap Protect for another move, I have tried Toxic and U-Turn myself (U-Turn is better). You could also use Rock Slide, I have it on my Triple Battles Greninja, but I haven't tried it with this one.
You can give it a Jolly nature, I recently got one that is Jolly and am indifferent. I haven't had a battle where that's mattered yet.

Personally, I have been using this for the last few months, and I am in love with it. I finally have a video of me using it yesterday. It had some help, but you can see how much work he puts into the team...
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-137590730

I see that you have put a lot of thought into this, but unfortunately the conclusion has been reached time and time again that physical Greninja is bad, outclassed, and should not be used.

 

[Karxrida]

I haven't read the entire 53 pages of this, but I have a Physical build that I find rather entertaining. I am also looking for any feedback on it.

Hexproof Ninja

Greninja@ -
Ability: Protean

EVs 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature

- Acrobatics
- Shadow Sneak
- Spikes
- Protect / U-Turn

Set Description:
The set utilizes predictions, speed and raw power to overcome some of Greninja's current counters. As a summary, most people switch unprofitably for them. Most people bring in Special Sweepers / Walls against him and just fall to a 110 STAB Acrobatics (some in two hits, but you're faster). This does an incredible amount of damage against Mega Venasaur which is popular in my meta. Once they are stable, you utilize a combination of your own moves to dodge opposing moves while dealing damage. Each move grants Greninja an immunity to at least one type, this is where predictions are key.

This makes short work of Lucario and Breloom. Shadow Sneak first, then Acrobatics; if they use Mach Punch they miss both times.
This can set up against most electric types by using spikes and protect.
Fire, Rock, and Ground have difficulty hitting him as long as you can predict better than your opponent.

Biggest counters to him are Rock or Steel physical walls. While they more-than-likely can't hit you, they can setup against you.
Prankster / Gale Wings will make short work of this Greninja as it needs all the power and speed it can.
This Greninja is definitely a glass cannon; use with care.

Other options:
You can hold a lum berry if you plan on not using him as your lead and switching in on a status. That works less for me than holding nothing.
You can swap Protect for another move, I have tried Toxic and U-Turn myself (U-Turn is better). You could also use Rock Slide, I have it on my Triple Battles Greninja, but I haven't tried it with this one.
You can give it a Jolly nature, I recently got one that is Jolly and am indifferent. I haven't had a battle where that's mattered yet.

Personally, I have been using this for the last few months, and I am in love with it. I finally have a video of me using it yesterday. It had some help, but you can see how much work he puts into the team...
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-137590730

NEVER USE PHYSICAL GRENINJA!!!

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

NEVER USE PHYSICAL GRENINJA!!!

You could've at least tried to say it nicely like I did. You trying to chase that guy off the site or something?

 

[Jaguar360]

Listening to all these hooligans trying to promote their physical Greninja sets, I could not help but start to think more about how a physically-oriented Greninja could be viable at the risk of derailing the thread and getting yelled at. However, I think I have come up with a very useful physically-based mixed set the Greninja can use to great effect.
Greninja @ No item/Focus Sash if you want to risk not having Acrobatics at full power
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Taunt/Spikes
- Acrobatics
- U-turn
- Scald
This set functions mostly as a scout, taunting non-Mamoswine Stealth Rock leads or providing momentum with U-turn. This basically screws over any non-Mental Herb Deoxys-D and is very effective against most other leads. While not having a Life Orb or Focus Sash is unfortunate, powering up Acrobatics is super-important, as it is Greninja's most powerful physical move at 110 BP without an item + STAB. Scald is a fairly spammable move that deals with Mamoswine for the most part and allows it to do stuff to Aeigislash (not much, but you can fish for a burn at least and it's nice not having the most common Pokemon in the tier completely wall you).
Spikes can also be used so that it's not too outclassed by Tornadus-T, but Taunt is super-useful and it is still kinda difficult to set up Spikes with such a frail Pokemon. Taunt also allows you to cripple Chansey for a few turns, who would otherwise wall you, even with Acrobatics.
This set can also be useful for cleaning up late in the game sometimes with Stealth Rock support, but of course not as well as Special Life Orb Greninja is able to. Here are some nice replays I had of it while laddering:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-138171418
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-138188875
Not against the best players or anything, but it shows you a good idea of what it does.
If Greninja gets Knock Off when ORAS comes out, this set could be even better, though it might become a complete Tornadus-T clone with that lol.

 

[altimis]

I see that you have put a lot of thought into this, but unfortunately the conclusion has been reached time and time again that physical Greninja is bad, outclassed, and should not be used.

I'm not trying to say "I'm right you're wrong", I think this could be plausible.
It has decent neutral coverage with a powerful STAB move that's super effective against its counters. I would never classify it as a sweeper, but I think that a Physical Greninja fills the support role better than its Special variant.
I forgot it could learn Toxic Spikes though, which is something I might look into.

 

[Evilfaic]

I'm not trying to say "I'm right you're wrong", I think this could be plausible.
It has decent neutral coverage with a powerful STAB move that's super effective against its counters. I would never classify it as a sweeper, but I think that a Physical Greninja fills the support role better than its Special variant.
I forgot it could learn Toxic Spikes though, which is something I might look into.

Thing is, Greninja isn't meant to be a support mon. Plenty of other, bulkier mons fill that role much better. Greninja is meant to be a fast, SPECIAL attacker. And if you wanted to, you can still run Spikes/Toxic Spikes on the Special set:

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature / Naive Nature
- Scald / Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse / Extrasensory
- U-turn / Ice Beam / HP Fire / Toxic Spikes
- Spikes

 

[Durant]

Thing is, Greninja isn't meant to be a support mon. Plenty of other, bulkier mons fill that role much better. Greninja is meant to be a fast, SPECIAL attacker. And if you wanted to, you can still run Spikes/Toxic Spikes on the Special set:

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Scald / Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse / Extrasensory
- Ice Beam / HP Fire / Toxic Spikes
- Spikes

One question but why the Naive nature when you can easily run Timid.

 

[Karxrida]

So you don't gimp U-turn's power.

 

[Durant]

So you don't gimp U-turn's power.

There was nu U-Turn on that specific set though.

 

[Evilfaic]

There was nu U-Turn on that specific set though.

Woops, I meant to put it on.

 

[YO FACE!!!!!!]

I think the following Greninja should become the absolute standard.

Greninja@Life Orb
Nature-Timid
Evs-252 sp. atk, 252 speed, 4 hp
Moves: Scald/Surf
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
Dark Pulse/Extrasensory

This set gives you the perfect coverage, with Dark Pulse hitting the likes of Aegislash and Extrasensory nailing Mega-Venusaur.

 

[YO FACE!!!!!!]

I was wondering, what do you guys run with Greninja for coverage or support? I'm using a Greninja/Mawile/Garchomp offensive core right now with good results. Mawile can't handle ground, fire, or physical walls, which Greninja eats alive. Garchomp cleans up miscellaneous threats.

I really want to try Mega Scizor and Greninja on a core, could it work?

Ain't this taken care of by Landorus-T if Landy switches in on Mawile?

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

I think the following Greninja should become the absolute standard.

Greninja@Life Orb
Nature-Timid
Evs-252 sp. atk, 252 spd, 4 hp
Moves: Scald/Surf
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
Dark Pulse/Extrasensory

This set gives you the perfect score on the battle test, coupled with BP Combusken and Mega Kanghaskan. Water/Ice/Grass gets you perfect coverage, with Dark Pulse hitting the likes of Aegislash and Extrasensory nailing Mega-Venusaur.

I'm confused. 252 special defense? BP combusken? Mega khan? What is this?

 

[YO FACE!!!!!!]

I'm confused. 252 special defense? BP combusken? Mega khan? What is this?

Sorry, this is from my game card. It's not half bad though.

 

[mikelos]

i use expert belt on mine

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Sorry, this is from my game card. It's not half bad though.

Referring specifically to wifi, that set is fine. For smogon, I'll suggest full speed investment, hydro pump, and consider something instead of grass knot since it doesn't hit that much. I usually use HP fire, but hp grass for rotom, and a few others work too

 

[Evilfaic]

I think the following Greninja should become the absolute standard.

Greninja@Life Orb
Nature-Timid
Evs-252 sp. atk, 252 speed, 4 hp
Moves: Scald/Surf
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
Dark Pulse/Extrasensory

This set gives you the perfect coverage, with Dark Pulse hitting the likes of Aegislash and Extrasensory nailing Mega-Venusaur.

Gren doesn't necesarilly have a 100% standard set. A "standard" set would have quite a few slashes:

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Def or SpD / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature / Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump / Scald / Surf
- Extrasensory
- Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Ice Beam

People tend to run Dark Pulse just because they see "Water/Dark" and automatically think dual STAB, but since Protean exists, Dark Pulse doesn't really provide any extra coverage. U-turn is an option I guess, don't know what to slash it with.

 

[SoulRed12]

Extrasensory is much more useful than Dark Pulse. There isn't anything Greninja needs dark coverage for anymore.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Here's how I legitimately look at Greninja

Greninja @ Life Orb/Choice Specs
Timid 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP/Atk
Hydro Pump/Surf/Scald
Ice Beam/Extrasensory
Extrasensory/HP Fire/Dark Pulse
HP Fire/Dark Pulse/HP Grass/U-Turn

That's pretty much everything I consider. Every Greninja needs a water STAB, its movepool is just too useful there. Ice Beam and Extrasensory are always 1 and 2 on my list for coverage, but if my team doesn't need one of them, I can add HP Fire or Dark Pulse depending on what my team needs. The last slot is really dependent on what role Greninja plays. HP Fire's first because Fire STAB's great for Ferrothorn and the likes, but Dark STAB is a very useful niche. If I need a solution to Rotom, I choose HP Grass. U-Turn obviously provides a helpful niche, but not one my teams use much, so that's why it's last.

 

[YO FACE!!!!!!]

Gren doesn't necesarilly have a 100% standard set. A "standard" set would have quite a few slashes:

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Def or SpD / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature / Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump / Scald / Surf
- Extrasensory
- Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Ice BeamO

People tend to run Dark Pulse just because they see "Water/Dark" and automatically think dual STAB, but since Protean exists, Dark Pulse doesn't really provide any extra coverage. U-turn is an option I guess, don't know what to slash it with.

Does Hydro Pump hit anymore important KOs than Surf? I mean for me, Hydro Pump has missed quite a few times and so I run surf and still land many OHKOs and 2HKO with it.

 

[mikelos]

Here's how I legitimately look at Greninja

Greninja @ Life Orb/Choice Specs
Timid 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP/Atk
Hydro Pump/Surf/Scald
Ice Beam/Extrasensory
Extrasensory/HP Fire/Dark Pulse
HP Fire/Dark Pulse/HP Grass/U-Turn

That's pretty much everything I consider. Every Greninja needs a water STAB, its movepool is just too useful there. Ice Beam and Extrasensory are always 1 and 2 on my list for coverage, but if my team doesn't need one of them, I can add HP Fire or Dark Pulse depending on what my team needs. The last slot is really dependent on what role Greninja plays. HP Fire's first because Fire STAB's great for Ferrothorn and the likes, but Dark STAB is a very useful niche. If I need a solution to Rotom, I choose HP Grass. U-Turn obviously provides a helpful niche, but not one my teams use much, so that's why it's last.

maybe specs for expert belt

 

[Evilfaic]

Does Hydro Pump hit anymore important KOs than Surf? I mean for me, Hydro Pump has missed quite a few times and so I run surf and still land many OHKOs and 2HKO with it.

Not off the top of my head. With that set, I prefer Surf as well, just as a nice middle-ground between Hydro/Scald.

 

[Prinz]

You use Hydro Pump > Surf on Greninja because it's frail as fuck anyway and you want to hit as hard as possible. Scald is only niche is that you have a chance to burn Azumarill but thats it, if you want to hit Azumarill you then usually go with HP Grass which is much better overall (it hits things like Rotom-W as well).