Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

Status
Not open for further replies.
I would like to nominate Toxicroak for C. It has a pretty effective niche; being able to counter Azumarill. With Gunk Shot, it can outspeed and OHKO it. Azumarill's Priority even heals Toxicroak. If Toxicroak's Gunk Shot misses though, it has a chance of being OHKOd by a Choice Banded or Belly Drum boosted Play rough. Toxicroak can also force out Keldeo with a combination of Gunk Shot and Sucker Punch. If the opponent decides to switch to a Psychic-type, Toxicroak can Swords Dance on the switch and then Sucker Punch, OHKOing the Latis whilst boosted. I believe this is too good of a niche to be placed below Seismitoad and Venomoth. It's obviously vulnerable to BirdSpam and being outsped. This is why it belongs in C and not A though.
 
As long as we're talking about shitty Megas, kick Mega Banette off. It's slow, frail, can't keep itself alive, is outclassed at anything Prankster related by Thundurus (sweeper stopping with T-Wave) and Sableye (Priority Taunt and spreading Burns like the plague). Prankster not activating the turn you Mega Evolve makes it super hard to do so without getting crippled or murdered outright unless you waste a moveslot on Protect (which also gives you massive 4MSS) and means you're useless if you didn't find time to MEvo before you come in and do your job. Prankster D-Bond is cool in theory, but super predictable in practice and is not hard to out-prioritize or just PP stall. You want to run Shadow Claw, Knock Off, Taunt, Will-O-Wisp, Thunder Wave, Destiny Bond, and Protect all at once but you can't and are unable to deal with Defensive and Offensive teams at the same time depending on what you drop.
While I agree with the Mega Abomasnow kickoff, I'm not sure Banette should go unranked. It honestly holds a decent niche that no other Pokemon holds in its combination of priority Destiny Bond, (the big kicker that is unique to it), the usual Taunt and Will-O-Wisp, and actual offensive potential. I'd usually rathe just use Sableye, and there is no denying it is flawed, but it can still screw up a good majority of the physical sweepers and support Pokemon in the OU tier, if you support it right and play it right. That massive need for careful support and being well played keeps it in D, but it actually has a payoff that can actually, well, pay off in the hands of a skilled player. I think D rank is fine for it.

On the other hand, I guess it isn't THAT drastically important if it got kicked off the list. It is kind of shitty.
 
Im going to go take on an unpopular opinion and state that Lucario is a B+ pokemon.

Most of you know him as a sword dance user. Which is why he'd also make a great all out attacker.

Let's look at calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 367-432 (93.1 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 147-173 (49.4 - 58.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 213-255 (55.7 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Now many would argue that Lando simply takes this, but fail to realize that this is on a switch

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 133-156 (36.5 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

These are defensive venusaurs

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 175-207 (48.7 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

These are all based of All-Out Attacker which I have used for success
 
Can anyone tell me what is keeping Mega Absol at B-, along the likes of Entei/Chesnaught? Magic Guard seems nice against stall, but with this things frailness its dying after like two attacks from stallmons. Magic Guard also doesn't activate on turn 1, which is when a lot of players like to use SR. It can't break through walls well, and as a late game cleaner he best priority it has is the unreliable Sucker Punch, leaving it helpless against Greninja for example. I haven't used it much, but I never have a problem playing against it and I feel it should drop. I get it's the only Magic Guarder that can threaten with attack power, but with all its negatives I don't think it can stand along the likes of others in B-, such as Staraptor. Mega Absol => C ranks?
 
Can anyone tell me what is keeping Mega Absol at B-, along the likes of Entei/Chesnaught? Magic Guard seems nice against stall, but with this things frailness its dying after like two attacks from stallmons. Magic Guard also doesn't activate on turn 1, which is when a lot of players like to use SR. It can't break through walls well, and as a late game cleaner he best priority it has is the unreliable Sucker Punch, leaving it helpless against Greninja for example. I haven't used it much, but I never have a problem playing against it and I feel it should drop. I get it's the only Magic Guarder that can threaten with attack power, but with all its negatives I don't think it can stand along the likes of others in B-, such as Staraptor. Mega Absol => C ranks?
Magic Guard does activate turn 1. And it's more about being a fast, powerful attacker that can't be burned or T-waved, rather than preventing hazards (it's a terrible lead). Sucker Punch is actually slightly less risky with Magic Guard as you obviously don't fear status. Also, if you want to run SD, you can't be phased out which is a plus.

M-Absol is a good revenge killer/mixed attacker. The combination of Fire Blast and Superpower makes it awesome against Chansey/Skarmory cores and Ferro/Heatran cores. It can outspeed Thundurus while being immune to T-wave, so that's a nice little niche too.

Its only problems are lack of speed before Mega Evolving (just bring it on something that dies to Sucker Punch, not that big of a deal) and wafer defenses. It really can't switch into anything but Knock Offs (actually give you +1 Attack if you're not evolved, which is another cool thing). But I mean, you could say the same of any revenge killer and there are plenty of those in B- and above.
 
the links on the first page to the builds has a error on it you cant see Mega Heracross its attached to Gliscor so it only shows Gliscor thought id let ya all know
 
I don't really care where Absol should be, but I agree that it's a terrible pokèmon in XY OU. It's really really frail and weak attacks like Quagsire's EQ 2HKO it to make an example. It can't switch in on anything without being 2HKO'd or even OHKO'd, it can't even switch on Stealth Rock users like Landorus-T, Terrakion and Garchomp without risking to die in the process, it's extremely weak to any priority move. It doesn't really work against stall teams either, since it can't get past common walls like Mega Venusaur and Quagsire. Probably things like Celebi, Gothitelle and Chesnaught have more useful niches than it and they are better mons in general and therefore Absol should go in C+ rank.
 
I would not consider defensive Lando T an answer to Sd Heracross at all; it switches in as Heracross uses sd...and then? If you hard switch out, something else will have to take a +1 rock blast; if you don't run enough speed for heracross and use u-turn, rock nlast will do a number on Lando. What will you have accomplished at that point? You will have been able to get a Heracross check in, but your physical tank with no recovery will be sooo damn weakened, and any of Heracross' teammates will break through. Heracross will have accomplished its role as a wallbreaker.

Aaand 264 speed may be a bit too much imo, i can't check how many evs you need atm but i think the loss ib bulk will be noticeable, and useless if heracross runs jolly which isn't actually a bad set, you wont outspeed anyway.

Lando's other sets are cool and stuff. But in all honesty, its main set being a tank/pivot that is supposed to switch into powerful physical moves from monsters like m pinsir, but has no recovery to do it more than once kinda bothers me. I think i'll read if anyone makes good points to justify its rise before stopping being skeptical :]
Impish Lando is slower, so it will stomach the +1 rock blast which will do like 50%, and then bring out a fast pokemon that can force hera out
 
Comment on Absol, and a small comment on Blastoise because I was thinking about UU Megas. I may post some more on other UU Megas later.

Absol: B- to B-: I think Mega Absol is fine where it is right now, although I won’t fight too hard if it moves down to C+. Performs well against offense. Relying on Sucker Punch on its own is risky, however Mega Absol makes it a much steadier bet due to Magic Bounce. STAB Knock Off coming off 150 Attack hits like a truck, and gives it a little bit of utility against Stall. Superpower and Play Rough both compliment the Dark STABs well. Absol can also use a decently strong Fire Blast or Ice Beam to get through the Ferrothorns and Gliscors of the world. Its best role is on offense against offense, but it’s not useless against semi-stall and stall. Magic Bounce can be a great weapon against the Toxics and WoW Stall tends to throw around, and nothing on Stall likes Knock Off. Coverage moves can also dent certain common Stall mons. Biggest weakness is his frailty.

Blastoise: C+ to C: Blastoise is a good, hard hitting spinner, but his biggest edge over Starmie is gone. Blastoise can consistently beat Aegislash with Dark Pulse, where Starmie had to rely on Analytic Hydro Pumps to get past Aegi. Starmie also had a nasty weakness to Aegi’s Ghost attacks. However, he still has a niche as a bulky spinner on teams that need more bulk then speed. Pseudo Dark and Fighting STAB is nice, and he also has the standard strong Water attacks to choose from (Scald, Hydro Pump, Water Pulse). The reason I think he would drop would be the rise of AV Azu, who walls all four of his common attack types (Water, Fighting, Dark and Ice). He’s just not as effective anymore.
 
I won't tell anything more about Mega Absol because I have written all the things I think about it. Anyway the main problem with Mega Blastoise is the mega slot it takes, otherwise it was a more playable pokèmon but the fact that you can't use 1 more mega is huge because things like Char-X, Mawile, Pinsir, Heracross, Gardevoir and any other mega bar some really bad ones as Banette are all better than it. If you want an offensive Rapid Spin you can also always go with Starmie (Aegislash is banned from the OU tier though, if you didnt know this) which is less bulk but it's also much faster or with Excadrill which is faster (much faster if in sand) and stronger with Life Orb, you can also go for Defog users like Mandibuzz, Skarmory and Lati Twins if you need to keep hazards away from you field. You can use all the mons I mentioned as hazards controls but without wasting the mega slot which is huge. Also, many of them are much better than Blastoise anyways. In summary, I agree that Blastoise isn't really good in OU and because of the limits it puts to the team building shouldn't be used and therefore I agree with it being C rank as well, but if it's C+ it's fine as well by me.
 
If you want an offensive Rapid Spin you can also always go with Starmie (Aegislash is banned from the OU tier though, if you didnt know this)
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I stated Blastoise's biggest advantage over Starmie was gone (aka Aegislash was banned). Even a few months ago Starmie wasn't nearly as useable because of the ubiquity of Aegislash, who was quite possibly the greatest spinblocker the game has ever seen. Starmie did not have a reliable way of getting by him, Mega-Toise did.
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Nominating Mew for A+

Mew is seriously amazing in this metagame... The stallbreaker set is incredibly painful for stall if they don't pack either a Zard (which honestly isn't that hard to play of you set rocks up and stop them from coming down with Mew's Taunt) or a unreasonably fast Gliscor. Many stall teams have no real way of dealing with it other than PP stall which is not an anwser.
But Mew isn't just good vs stall, it's also pretty great vs offense as well, being able to tank a few hits from powerful Pokemon such as Thundurus (can potentially check even the Knock Off variant depending on how much Attack EVs it runs), non-Dark-Pulse Greninja, Latios, and Mega-Medicham (though it loses to Sub). Depending on its speed, it can outspeed and burn the likes of Mega-Heracross, Bisharp, Mega-Scizor, and Azumarill, and it can even take a hit from sweepers such as Mega-Gyarados or Mega Tyranitar and subsequently disable them. It's also good at harrasing random stuff with Knock Off. It can also give teams an way to stop bulky boosting win conditions like Clefable and Suicune which a few teams just auto-lose to.

Essentially, it's a Pokemon that always seems to pulls its weight, in pretty much every matchup. It consistently provides very good support, making life a hell of a lot easier for its teammates, creating setup fodder with Will-O-Wisp, knocking off items like Choice Scarf that could potentially stop a sweep, and just being a massive annoyance for the opposing team in general. And that's only the stallbreaker set. It's also a stellar defogger, hugely aided by its ability to burn most rock setters with WoW. It can also set rocks itself, though it's sometimes hard to find the slot. You can run a more physically defensive set if you're more intent on walling physical threats.

There's a ton of other creative movesets you can use, but i feel like Mew is worthy A+ for its support capabilities alone. And it doesn't even need any support itself. It's one of only Psychic types that can't successfully be pursuit trapped due to WoW, and much like Azumarill, it can literally just be slapped on a team without any support and preform well. There's hardly any playstyle on which it isn't welcome besides maybe HO, and even then I'm sure some HO teams would appreciate the ridiculous amount of support it can provide. Mew is one of the most reliable, consistent, and useful Pokemon in the metagame right now, and I feel like it deserves to be moved to A+.
 
Last edited:
Mew is fine where it is, it really hates status so it doesn't like Scald burns or Toxic and even paralysis. It can't really do much to stall teams with Gliscor as Knock Off won't do shit if Toxic Orb is activated. It's also crippled by Trick which things like Gothitelle and Latios commonly carry. It doesn't beat Scarf Tyranitar which is getting more and more common and hates Knock Off since it really wants Leftovers recovery. If it invests in Special Defense it is not bulky enough to avoid 2HKOs from LO Excadrill and stuff like that and if it invests in defense it won't take special attacks that well so it's one or the other. Another flaw is that if stuff it's trying to burn use sub, you're in a bad position. I'm talking about common sub users like Mega Gyarados, Mega Medicham, Hawlucha etc. Finally it can't really do much to Heatran, Talonflame and just fire types in general. Finally regenerator cores can just keep switching back and forth to PP stall Mew. Now I'm not saying Mew isn't good because it is but these flaws prevent it from being A+ in my opinion.
 
Last edited:

AM

is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
LCPL Champion
Since people are talking about M-Absol I'm just going to throw my opinion for that. M-Absol can stay where it's at. It's a pain for stall and even more so of a pain for anything that relies on status afflictions, Taunt (think Stallbreaker Mew for example in terms of that role), and other common traits that are seen on stall and balanced teams. Why are we bringing the argument that it can't switch into strong attacks? I thought this was an obvious point of anything remotely frail and didn't need actual elaboration unless I'm completely missing something. You're not switching into stuff like Lando-I and Garchomp and taking that risk of getting popped by their powerful attacks. M-Absol users are completely aware of the risk involved in that and opt to switch into more passive mons that it has no care for. You're also missing the fact that M-Absol can cater its move set to help with certain threats more efficiently either as a stand alone mon or as a team. That standard set everyone uses with SD play rough or w/e it is, I forgot off the top of my head, is only effective to a slight degree. Absol has much more useful options overall to make it worthwhile. M-Absol is not some sort of messiah in the OU tier and its understandable if you're downplaying its effectiveness from seeing so much OP stuff usually used in the tier, or just from expecting so much from it by itself without consideration of how proper builds will help. However, C+ is too low for M-Absol so I disagree with dropping it down. M-Absol to stay B-.
 
Last edited:
I agree with the Mega Blastoise drop. Starmie is a more effective spinner, he takes up a mega slot, and he doesn't have any reliable recovery either, not even leftovers. Dark pulse may sound cool to take care of spinblockers but those things don't really exist anymore anyway. As stated before, his biggest edge over Starmie is gone after the Aegislash ban.
I disagree with Mega Banette being unranked. Taunt+Destiny Bond+Knock Off is annoying as hell and with the right prediction Banette can be really effective. He can't do a lot, but he fits the D Rank description of being able to accomplish a single task and not much more than that.

Also Doublade should move up because it walls too many key threats to be D Rank. Mega Heracross, Medicham, EQ-less Pinsir and Gardevior are obvious huge threats at the moment.
 
alexander is completely right, the reason that mega blastoise is often a less-than-stellar choice in ou is because it takes up a mega slot for what is essentially a supportive role and we have already seen by now that mega pokemon are more popular if a team can be built around them, like a sweeper like mega pinsir, gyarados, zardx, tyranitar etc, or a wallbreaker like medicham, gardevoir, heracross, or specialised as an important tank such as mega venusaur, and again, zardx. mega blastoise just isn't "special" enough to warrant the use of your mega slot on it, and with starmie becoming hugely popular again, it has even less of a niche as an offensive water-type rapid spin user. however, it does beat almost every stealth rock / spikes user (ferro just needs a bit of damage for aura sphere to smack it), and the fact that is has mega launcher gives all most all of its moves effective stab. it actually somewhat has a place on some balances (i saw it on a masterclass balance once) as a reliable bulky spinner that offense can actually have some trouble switching in to. also for more into mega blastoise check out @laurels team "nickelodeon", it's a great example of a blastoise aquad. i think c+ is a suitable rank for it.

i havent used mega absol in ages but it has a decent speed tier and should be able to threaten offense somewhat as it has both swords dance and sucker punch. im aware of the various move illegalities of the set which hinder it from using the optimal coverage.
 
My opinion on a few mentioned Pokemon:

Greninja should move to "Conclusion Reached":
It was mentioned a few pages ago. Greninja is a great Pokemon with one of the best abilities in the game. It is a pain to face if you play HO or even balanced, has a great special movepool and does decent amount of damage without being choiced thanks to protean. However, it is still kind of stale. Hydropump/Surf, Ice Beam and Extrasensory are mandatory, making him VERY predictable. Only the last move can be a little surprising, it can carry Dark Pulse for Mew, HP Fire for Scizor and Ferrothorn, HP Grass for Rotom-W and Azumarill or Grass Knot for Pokemon like Suicune and Mega-Gyarados. He has not bad physical attack, but he lacks moves to use it effectivly. Until the new movetutors give him new toys to play (I'm thinking of Knock Off, Zen-Headbutt and the elementary punches in particular) he will carry the same moves like always and is therefore perfectly fine in A+. Because of this and his lack of power against stall teams I suggest to let him stay in A+ and mention him in the Conclusion Reached section.

Mega-Absol should stay in B-:
Mega-Absol is totally fine where it is. It is frail that's true but that didn't stop Mega-Medicham either. Mega-Absol has a good ability against stall and is WAY better than Espeon (which should really move down btw). It does very good against HO thanks to its powerful Sucker Punch and Knock Off, good speed tier and ability to check Thundurus. It can run a SD-set or a mixed-set to get past its counters and has a decent movepool from Ice Beam to Flamethrower to Play Rough and even Superpower. It is not the best Mega in this meta, but decent enough for B-.

Mega-Banette should stay in D:
Mega-Banette is normally totally outclassed by Sableye because of its better typing and not taking a Mega-slot. However, Banette has a way better attack-stat and access to Destiny Bond, which gives him a nice niche to stop setup-sweepers which Sableye can't do. The description for D fits it perfectly, nothing more to say.

Mega-Blastoise should move down to C:
I agree with everything that has been said. The rise of Starmie makes Blastoise not a good choice of a spinner anymore. Its only nice niche as spinner was to take down Aegislash easily. Otherwise, he has the same good and bad traits like always: Decent bulk and special-attack, pseudo-STAB thanks to its ability and a reliable spinner, sadly he takes up a Mega-slot, has no recovery and needs much team support to work. Drop it to C.

PS:
-Mega-Heracross' link still doesn't work
-Mega-Scizor's link doesn't work either
-Conkeldurr's link doesn't work
-Cresselia's link doesn't work
-Salamence's link doesn't work
 
I agree that Mew is a great pokèmon in this metagame, being able to deal with both stall and HO teams and therefore it would deserve the A+ rank. TBH Albacore already said pretty everything though
 
Mew should stay where it is. It's royally screwed by Knock Off and Taunt, too many threats don't care about Will-o-Wisp (such as Zard X/Y, Mega Gardevoir, special Thundurus, Clefable, Keldeo, etc etc etc). Defiant Thundurus screws up the Defog variant, especially since Mew usually assumes it's a special Thundurus. And stall teams can deal with Mew by using something like Calm Mind Manaphy (I use one with 172 Speed EVs to outpace Timid Heatran), Mega Scizor or simply Knock Off its Lefties.


Anyway, I agree that Mega Absol should drop to C+.

1) It has pathetic defenses, meaning it can't wall most Stealth Rock setters, such as Ferrothorn and Landorus-T.
2) It needs to mega evolve before sponging entry hazards, unlike Espeon.
3) Mega Absol is generally outclassed by Weavile as a fast Knock Off abuser.
4) Extremely vulnerable to priority, despite its high speed. These include Talonflame's Brave Bird, Mach Punch, Aqua Jet and Bullet Punch.
 
It can bypass Knock Off users like Bisharp with the wisp though, and Scizor isn't an answer to it due to the wisp as well. Zard X / Y and Gardevoir walls it though but things like Keldeo can't really switch-in on it risking a Knock Off (and the wisp is annoying too, since Mew can always to something that takes Keldeo better). Also yes your Manaphy is a cool answer to it but the most part of people run CM Manaphy with more defensive bulk and less Speed in order to setup CMs much easier, your Manaphy can do better against Mew but it will do worse against practically the rest of metagame, so it's worth to run a so fast Manaphy?
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Mega-Banette should stay in D:
Mega-Banette is normally totally outclassed by Sableye because of its better typing and not taking a Mega-slot. However, Banette has a way better attack-stat and access to Destiny Bond, which gives him a nice niche to stop setup-sweepers which Sableye can't do. The description for D fits it perfectly, nothing more to say.
The problem with Destiny Bond is that it's predictable as fuck and you can't guarantee it'll work. You have to guess correctly between Taunting and D-Bonding and make sure that they don't just continue to set-up on you and guessing wrong means you did literally nothing but let them get free boosts. Faster priority from Pinsir and Talonflame make it a moot point since you really can't do shit to them. You also have a really hard time finding opportunities to Mega Evolve due to your shitty bulk (Lucario is bulkier) and speed, and you won't hit hard with a 70 BP Shadow Claw without investment anyway.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top