Mons You Wanted Discussion On
Hawlucha is a bit tricky, but ultimately I think a rise would make sense. Is it as useable as Weavile, Gothitelle, and Lucario? I think so. Hawlucha, while weak, is lucky to have an ability that doubles its Speed fairly quickly, SD, and highpowered STAB moves. Its life is made hell by Thundurus, Talonflame, and Pinsir, but a +2 +2 Pokemon spamming HJK and Acrobatics is terrifying for offensive teams, and when behind a substitute, it beats stuff like skarmory relatively easily. This could stay where it, but I think it's been improving a lot lately, and is on par with Weavile. Omastar, however, I am absolutely certain about; it really needs to rise. It's absolutely terrifying in rain; anything that 2hkos Ferrothorn with a Water move is terrifying in my book. It checks Talonflame on rain teams even better than Kabutops, and obviously much better than Kingdra + Keldeo. It's the most powerful special attacker on rain teams, and I definitely think it's B or B- worthy. Next, Empoleon is definitely worth a ranking, at least. "Why are you not using Ferrothorn" is weird statement to make, considering Ferrothorn doesn't beat hp fire Greninja, which is very popular now, while empoleon does. Empoleon is also more specially bulky, so its defensive set can handle Omastar and Kingdra better. But finally... it has Defog. Being able to get rid of rocks is its main use over Ferrothorn and Heatran, and in tandem with countering water-types, and a specs set, it's definitely worth ranking. Now, I'm not sure if rising it is right. Like alexwolf says, ts offensive set counters CM Fable and CM Suicune, which is big for offense. It also checks Azumarill, Ninja, and Rain (even Kabu if it's using AJ > LK). But actually, comparing it to the C- mons is relatively easy. It's very similar to Toxicroak, another underused and underrated mon, because both check and counter a limited amount of mons based on their offensive and defensive virtues. Thanks to Empoleon's great typing and movepool that let it have two viable sets, and rise is warranted. It could also stay in D because of the existence traditionally better Pokemon like Heatran, Ferrothorn, Keldeo, and Greninja, but Empoleon combines their virtues and adds a bit of its own.
I
actually think Goodra is fine in C. It has a niche AV set, and that's really it afaik. The reasons it's a relatively bad option are known; it's weak, has 4mss, and so is often thought to just sit there. It has terrible physical bulk, so nearly every physical attack, other than Breloom, can easily beat it one on one. This includes Keldeo, a special attacker it should be able to beat. Goodra has to be played very well in order to do well, otherwise it's generally a wasted teamslot. I guess it's mostly not being that familiar with it that I am against it rising, so any good post would probably convince me. Haxorus was always underrated in my eyes. With DD, it's totally outclassed, but with SD and mold breaker it's able to be a great wall breaker. I think C- would be a nice step up, and C is manageable for it. I'd personally rather use it than Goodra, so idrk. Jirachi is definitely worth C+, considering it has two really good and different sets: Scarf and Wish. Scarf is able to check Gardevoir and a bunch of other mons with its great coverage, and can support the team with Healing wish, While the SpD set counters Lati@s, Ninja, and Gardevoir, and can support the team with wish and status. It's underrated, and appreciates the loss of Aegi/Mawile and decrease in usage of bisharp.
ok thanks Jukain + Scrafty. I was relatively unfamiliar with Goodra, so I must've severely underrated it. Just look at their posts to see what goodra's niche is.
Doublade beats Gardevoir, Medicham, Pinsir, Terrakion, and Heracross on stall, which is very impressive. It has massive physical bulk, so much that it doesn't need to invest in any of it, and its defense is still as high as Deoxys-S' speed. With investment, its special bulk is acceptable, and it can use Rest viably with a HB user to cover its lack of recovery. It needs support (stuff to cover neutral/super effective special moves, Heal Bell, etc), but it worth C rank. Forretress should stay unranked imo. It's just really bad, and the loss of Aegi/Mawile hasn't changed how it's the definition of setup bait. Spike's are pretty bad in this metagame, so the only reason to use it is SR + RS, and i'd rather use Skarmory or Empoleon (Defog, ik, but still) for this. Skarm has Taunt, Whirlwind, and Roost all over Forretress, and Emp has offensive presence. Sure, Forretress has Volt-Switch, but Ground-types still laugh at it. Have fun with Forretress when Garchomp is using you for setup bait. Am I being too harsh? I'm not really sure, but I'm not convinced Ferrothorn has any real niche in OU. Sure, it can pivot, set sr, and take sr away, but it can't recover and can't stop setup, so I'd rather Skarm (or emp). Like I said, spikes aren't that great now, so I'm not certain why Froslass was nominated to move up. It is wicked fast, which i guess is cool, but if I wanted spikes, I'd have them as priority (Klefki). Froslass does have Taunt, DBond, and Cursed Body, so it isn't useless/worth unranking, but I find it hard to compare it to stuff like Venomoth.
I'm still supportive of Azelf becoming B-. It's a very good, albeit predictable, lead that can do any combination of set SR, use Taunt, kill Steel-types, explode, set Dual Screens, and set Rain Dance effectively. Obviously it can't do all of this, which is why it's only borderline B-/C+ instead of A, but it's still a good lead for HO teams, especially those that like Rain support. I know some people, like with MegaChomp, will come to support mega-toise to death, but I think regardless it's time for it to drop. Its main draw was as a combination of an offensive/defensive spinner that beat every ghost type. However, now Aegislash is good, so Starmie can and does shine. The main reason to use Blastoise - being a better spinner than Starmie, isn't legitimate anymore, and I think it's weird to see it ranked with
decent but mediocre stuff like Togekiss and Sylveon, when Blastoise just isn't that good. Blastoise is pretty straightforward, so I don't think I'm missing any niches. But if I am, plz tell me. Rotom-H doesn't seem that good to me. I know some people like it, but I think the SR weakness, recent waterspam, and competition with Rotom-W push me away from using it. It's less reliable as a pinsir/talonflame check due to its sr weakness. That's about it. It only has two weaknesses, compared to Rotom-W's one, but unfortunately water and rock are more influential than Grass. Again, I may be missing something, but as a WoW electric-type pivot, I'd rather the SR-neutral washing machine nine times out of ten.
Volcarona has like no effect on the metagame now. A moveset of Fiery Dance, Giga Drain, and HP Ground covers a lot of stuff, so i don't really agree with the huge 4MSS argument. However, the AJet weakness, the Lati@s popularity, and getting worn down so fast (LO + SR) or being really weak (lefties) makes it unfortunately not worth using most of the time. I also don't agree with the competition argument, since it obviously has niches over other special fire-types. However, I'm not sure if it should be in the same rank as Togekiss, who's similarly mediocre, but has many viable sets with little competition + only taking 25% from SR, compared to Volcarona only having one or two sets + taking 50%. I think a drop is warranted. Smeargle similarly does nothing now outside of the gimmicky (sorry denis) Geomancy/Cotton Guard pass, but for that it should at least stay ranked. I kinda think D is the most appropriate rank for it, since shuckle is better for webs + sr, and everything else is better for BP unless you specifically need everything boosted except for attack.
Other Pokemon
I think Whimsicott's access to priority Memento, Tailwind, and Encore gives it a niche on offensive teams, since it really facilitates frail Pokemon setting up. It's commonly seen on trolly teams, but it can be used on serious teams to make frailer and slower mons like Diggersby and CM Gardevoir much scarier. Its supportive movepool is so good, and its stats are just enough to let it do what it needs to. People tend to underrate Memento, Tailwind, and Encore, but when used right, they're very threatening tools for an offensive team. Crawdaunt in my opinion should rise. It's frail and slow, which is really unattractive for a Pokemon, but its wallbreaking prowess is unprecedented. It's able to 2hko every Pokemon in the tier (not with the same moveset, but in general [and yes btw it 2hkos Azumarill, so if azu switches in on Crabhammer it loses as long as it's Adamant]), which makes it an absolute pain to switch into. It's thought to be bad v. offense, but its Aqua Jet is absolutely terrifying, especially after an SD. It's somewhat hard to use, but when used with proper support (bulky mons to take hits for it, venuwall, etc) it's a good mon. I definitely think it's as good as Conk, Weavile, and Lucario, although it is very different than them. Since nothing does what it does, it's hard to pinpoint exactly when it should go, but imo C+ is for good but mediocre mons like Toge and Sylveon, and Crawdaunt, due to its uniqueness + power, belongs in a tier above them. Aegislash is banned, Gengar uses Sludge Wave or Will-o-Wisp on every set it uses, Spikes are bad... I just can't see why Chesnaught is in the same rank as Weavile or Entei... or even Conk. It's just about as irrelevant as Volcarona, but at least Volcarona is unique. Chesnaught has a lot of immunities, but every mon that uses Shadow Ball or Focus Miss has some way to threaten it, from my experience. Again, I may be totally out of line here, but I just can't see what Chesnaught accomplishes that better bulky grasses can't do better.
Cresselia is a really cool Pokemon. It's bulk is absurd, and it lets it cover basically everything it wants to. The standard defensive set lets it act as stall's one true stop to CM Landorus, as well as totally not being useless outside of it, covering about every Pokemon that can't hit it super effectively. It also walls mega cham, which is useful for all types of teams. Psychic/Ice Beam lets it cover all it needs too, Moonlight lets it recover, and lets it handle Charizard-Y better, and Reflect helps it avoid Pursuit while, for a limited time, supporting its teammates. It also has a dual Screens set, which supports all types of teams, namely HO, especially with Lunar dance, and a Trick Room set that alone warrants D. I think its niches on stall teams, as well as smaller HO and TR niches definitely make it on par with Weavile and Ampharos and better than Lucario and Conkeldurr. Jellicent is an interesting stallbreaker than can counter keldeo, which is awesome. It appreciates aegi and mawile dying and bisharp's usage going down, and i think D is possible.
Question
Could someone explain the hype over Tentacruel? I don't understand why so suddenly it was approved for an analysis + given a D ranking. Thanks.
Ok thanks hey yal, Jukain, and alexwolf. It makes sense why tentacruel is viable now.
