Challenge One of the hardest Pokemon questions of all time

[Jibaku]

So as far as I'm concerned these are the only ways to hit Arceus SE. Correct me if I'm wrong:

- Fighting type moves
- Trick or Treat + Dark type move
- Forest Curse + everything Grass is weak to (Trevenant only gets Poison Jab and X-scissor iirc, not counting any fighting move it might have)

 

[DragonWhale]

So as far as I'm concerned these are the only ways to hit Arceus SE. Correct me if I'm wrong:

- Fighting type moves
- Trick or Treat + Dark type move
- Forest Curse + everything Grass is weak to (Trevenant only gets Poison Jab and X-scissor iirc)

And ghost for trick or treat

 

[Jibaku]

Arceus' Normal type prevents ghost type attacks from affecting it

 

[DragonWhale]

Arceus' Normal type prevents ghost type attacks from affecting it

Wow, I'm going to sleep lol, I can't think straight anymore.

 

[rufus drumknott]

Kecleon Skill Swap + Ancient Power + Brick Break? What does that miss?

Edit: Ran out of the bathroom yelling 'Aegislash!'

 

[Molk]

Kecleon Skill Swap + Ancient Power + Brick Break? What does that miss?

Aegislash, Stance Change can't be skill swapped

 

[Inspirited]

Some other things to keep in mind are Scrappy, Freeze Dry, and Flying Press (which uniquely hits Bug-, Grass-, and Fighting-types all SE with all of these being problem types I have run into). This one is a brain scrambler definitely.

Edit: Also, does Me First factor into this?

 

[Fireburn]

This would work if you had 4 moveslots:

Kecleon @ Ring Target
-Skill Swap
-Ancient Power
-Brick Break
-Trick

Trick Ring Target onto Aegislash and then smash it with Brick Break. You cover everything else I think.

Still trying to figure out how to do it with only three moves though...

 

[Imanalt]

There's an issue: because of arceus, any attempt to type change is impossible other than trick or treat and forest's curse. Because there is an arceus of every type, and no two move combo can hit all single types se, you can't just run appropriate coverage on type changing. There is also no three type combination that hits all existing mons for super effective damage. Therefore, the only possible methods much involve trick or treat or forest's curse. However, its pretty simple to determine that no 2 move coverage can hit all mons w/ ghost type tacked on (any normal mon beats you unless you have dark coverage, with dark coverage you need a move to hit fairies, and you need a move to hit darks, and no type hits both). Forest's curse is in a similar boat, where only flying has all its resists weak to one type, and that one type is ground, so mons like archeops and skarmory can not be hit for se

So its 100% impossible w/ arceus formes allowed

EDIT: molk pointed out on the second page we were told no plates were allowed, so that fixes this

 

[StallMandibuzz]

Agh, this is making my head hurt. -.- Aegislash is the only obstacle since you can't Skill Swap dat important Color Change to it. And it resists AncientPower and is immune to Brick Break. ._. Soak is flawed too since Rock and Fighting don't deal SE damage to it. Goddamn. Even Forest's Curse and Trick-or-Treat are flawed because Grass typing won't make Aegislash get SE hit by Rock or Fighting, and that damn sword is already Ghost type so Trick-or-Treat is useless.

 

[Inspirited]

It can possibly be done with 2 moves really but i think there is an illegal method here:
Kecleon @
Ability: Protean
- Skill Swap
- Brick Break
Everything in the game gets a move that will make it weak to fighting aka normal moves. Once again though, I think this breaks a rule or something so i will keep looking.

 

[Molk]

It can possibly be done with 2 moves really but i think there is an illegal method here:
Kecleon @
Ability: Protean
- Skill Swap
- Brick Break
Everything in the game gets a move that will make it weak to fighting aka normal moves. Once again though, I think this breaks a rule or something so i will keep looking.

only pokemon in the entire game that can't learn a single normal-type move ;-; (or any move with a typing weak to fighting, it's entire movepool is string shot, poison sting, bug bite, and electroweb).

 

[Imanalt]

There are a lot of mons you can't skill swap color change to, so its not possible with any kind of skill swap. Even without typed arceuses I /think/ its not possible without using hidden power, although hidden power grass/superpower/soak on mold breaker basculin can do it.

I'm fairly sure this is the only existing set that can possibly do it in three moves, and I can probably write up a more formal proof of it tomorrow.

 

[sb879]

only pokemon in the entire game that can't learn a single normal-type move ;-; (or any move with a typing weak to fighting, it's entire movepool is string shot, poison sting, bug bite, and electroweb).

if you add flamethrower to that set, you hit weedle, as well as aegislash and shedinja, for super-effective damage.

 

[Inspirited]

only pokemon in the entire game that can't learn a single normal-type move ;-; (or any move with a typing weak to fighting, it's entire movepool is string shot, poison sting, bug bite, and electroweb).

actually, i forgot Aegislash too:

the actual way to do it would be:

Kecleon w/ protean
- Skill Swap
- Brick Break
- Fire Punch

and as i am writing this i get ninjaed lol

Edit: shoutout to Piexplode for helping reach this conclusion. RIP until January friend :[

 

[Jibaku]

Kecleon w/ protean
- Skill Swap
- Brick Break
- Fire Punch

Doesn't work against Blaziken/Infernape/Ganonpig/etc

 

[Imanalt]

Doesn't work against Blaziken/Infernape/Ganonpig/etc

I believe the argument was if you give them protean and then they use a normal move it does, which i guess does work, but i dont think anything that relies on the opponent making a move is valid

 

[Inspirited]

Everything in the game gets a move that will make it weak to fighting aka normal moves. Once again though, I think this breaks a rule or something so i will keep looking.

Doesn't work against Blaziken/Infernape/Ganonpig/etc

Yeah, like I said here, this works with a cooperative opponent with a normal move on every mon besides Weedle and Aegi. I think this is bending unsaid rules though, so once again, I am still searching for a better solution. I posted that just in case it was the answer though.

Edit: DragonWhale, is it possible to get a link to the original quiz?

 

[Jibaku]

Lol oops I'm falling asleep

Anyways the closest I've gotten is:

Octillery
- Entrainment
- Soak
- Bullet Seed

Entrainment removes Sap Sipper so Bullet Seed can hit, and removes Water Absorb/Dry Skin so Soak can hit. If it encounters magic bounce, it bounces back, granting Ocillery Magic Bounce (I think that's how it works?). Two Magic Bounces cancel each out,allowing Soak to hit.

Arceus is a problem though =/ (unless Soak hits itemless multitype now and nobody has tested that).

 

[Imanalt]

Lol oops I'm falling asleep

Anyways the closest I've gotten is:

Octillery
- Entrainment
- Soak
- Bullet Seed

Entrainment removes Sap Sipper so Bullet Seed can hit, and removes Water Absorb/Dry Skin so Soak can hit. If it encounters magic bounce, it bounces back, granting Ocillery Magic Bounce (I think that's how it works?). Two Magic Bounces cancel each out,allowing Soak to hit.

Arceus is a problem though =/ (unless Soak hits itemless multitype now and nobody has tested that).

two magic bounces do not cancel each other out anyways, soak would just reflect and hit you even once you had magic bounce.

As i said i believe the solution with hidden power mold breaker basculin is the only way it can be done, but hp is not allowed...

 

[DHR-107]

I'm going to let this topic continue because I think the original question is great!

But please keep your replies longer than a few words! Deleted a couple of posts for being one liners.

In regards to the question, I was thinking about this a little last night. Either Aegislash or Arceus becomes a problem because of their unswappable abilities. You'd have to add types to those Pokemon in order to hit them SE. OR you have to have a fighting move and Foresight or something... That covers Aegis and tombeye, but doesnt cover Shedinja :/

 

[Codraroll]

Can we assume a cooperative opponent? That is, you don't have to change the type/ability of the foe, but he can do it himself?

I'm unfortunately not knowledgeable enough to come up with a way to utilize this, but for all it's worth, Shedinja can learn Mimic, allowing it to copy moves such as Conversion or Camouflage.

 

[rufus drumknott]

Can we assume a cooperative opponent? That is, you don't have to change the type/ability of the foe, but he can do it himself?

I'm unfortunately not knowledgeable enough to come up with a way to utilize this, but for all it's worth, Shedinja can learn Mimic, allowing it to copy moves such as Conversion or Camouflage.

I don't think so, if this were so then Kecleon with Skill Swap, Feint Attack, and Brick Break would work as the opponent could give Sableye/Spiritomb a Ring Target himself.

 

[DragonWhale]

Edit: DragonWhale, is it possible to get a link to the original quiz?

It's in Japanese though, but if you're fine with that: https://twitter.com/satakeyui/status/523073998096048128

 

[Mulan15262]

so would assist but I don't think that's legal for an answer

Assist picks a move randomly, so the OP says it is not allowed. Copycat, though, is not random.



Also, the OP does not say that we need to be able to get an SE hit regardless of abilities, just that we need to be able to get a SE hit. This means that Magic Bounce is irrelevent as there is no pokemon that has to have it, all of them can have something else.