Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[Albacore]

It isn't Mega Mence, but it is quite easily the most versatile Mega in OU.

But yeah I agree with A+ for MLop too. As was already mentioned, the only thing that could potentially hold it back its its inability to really threaten defensive teams that much, however, a Subpass set patches that up somewhat, and really you can run whatever combination of moves you want in the last 2 slots though part of me wishes it could run more than 2 filler moves (Sub is great for not having to worry about Ferrothorn at all, Fake Out is really really useful vs offensive teams for chip damage and getting a Mega off, Healing Wish is Healing Wish, Baton Pass even without Sub gives it great pivoting abilities, Ice Punch screws offense's best switchin to it, Lando-T, so it's sometimes kinda hard to choose). It can basically suit its teams needs really well. It's one of the best anti-offense tools there it, you can easily just come in and spam one of your STABs and nothing offensive really wants to switch in (bar Lando-T who gets worn down a lot anyway especially if scarf). idk how to explain it but just it's a really safe and comfortable Pokemon to use, it requires little to no prediction to be effective and although it really kinda sucks vs stall (though the subpass sets says fu to Sableye), so does Greninja and that's widely considered to be the best Pokemon in the metagame behind MMence. MLopunny does't have quite the same level of effectiveness against offensive and balanced teams as Gren but it's still really good against both these playstyles (more so offense) and relies much less on prediction/whether or not it's running the right moveset to stomp through the opposing team.

also agreeing with Celebi rise, this thing has always been a really underrated Pokemon in my eyes and only got better in ORAS. It checks a few big threats and has fantastic synergy with a bunch of new megas, (mainly Camerupt, but also Metagross, Lopunny, Diancie and Beedrill to some extent). I'm especially the fan of the Life Orb set, it's one of the best Heatran+Bisharp lures available and really packs a punch too. Good universal answer to water types (though Gyara getting Crunch and Greninja in general is pretty annoying for it), deals with most ground types, great versatility with multiple sets, yeah this thing is actually really good and I'm all for it being A-. only problem with it is MMence's popularity which in itself causes ice moves to be used on like everything but that's basically gone at this point lol.

 

[Kyuzeth]

Note: Unlike most of you, i don't like making big walls of text. Just know that i probably will make a nomination of around 4 lines of text. Also note that I'm not trying to hurt your feelings that you guys make big walls of text

B- ---> B

This shark is easily akin to MBee, being a glass cannon. With Strong Jaw, basically all of your fang moves get an added stab. With Speed Boost as its non mega ability, it can get a 1.5x boost before it even megas with no risk, making it a good setup sweeper. I think this thing is too low to be in B- with Azelf, Doublade, Togekiss, and especially Gothitelle.

A+ ---> A

This is long overdue. Still an amazing mon with great coverage, but it suffered what it suffered before: SR weakness, support, etc. and its speed tier is really bad. It basically suffers from all the other base 100 megas: They are either too slow or outclassed by its clone. Char Y can't take a Diamond Storm from Diancie, +1 return by MMence, raped by MAerodactyl, and numerous other megas (I'm not taking any bets on OHKO's cause stupid calc is down, but once calc are up, ill get calc on)

A ---> S
Whaaat? To S rank? But thats ooodddd!
Let me explain. This thing has 180 Defense, 130 Special Attack, 95 HP. Easily one of, or maybe the bulkiest mon in the meta. It also has Calm Mind, to cover up its SpDef and increase its staggering 130 SpA to sweep. It also has access to Recovery, which makes it almost indestructible, as few mons can 2HKO it and live its +1 Scald. Arguably better than MSableye But lets say Sableye is better so Jukain doesn't get on my back and easily better than MVenusaur. This thing deserves a lot more, and it will be ten times the mega when MMence is gone.

I completely agree with moving Mega Sharpedo for B, since it's a pretty good sweeper once it gets going. Sure, Mega Gyarados has a shitton more bulk, but is reliant on set-up, while Sharpedo can scout with Protect to get a Speed Boost in, then Mega Evolve and annihilate shit with STAB Strong Jaw Crunch. It plays very differently from Mega Gyarados and that should be established. B is good for Megashark.
Mega Charizard Y is already A; the OP just won't undergo any changes until most of the rank changes have been made. Check the little tag above the list with the made changes for everything.
Mega Slowbro is definitely very good and pretty much the most dangerous CM attacker in the tier, but without boosts, special attackers easily check it. Most variants of Mega Gyarados can use it as set-up bait and actually crit with Crunch thanks to Mold Breaker ignoring Shell Armor, so there's that. Definitely warrants a rise, but A+ will do.

 

[Notorious544d]

Hey everyone. I apologise for the change in pace but I'd like to discuss Mega-Pinsir's massive upcoming drop from A+ to B.

For a start, I do understand why M-Pinsir is frowned upon in ORAS since the new speed tier benchmark (especially for mega evolutions) is now 110 and M-Pinsir's 105 speed just about misses out. However, I think that the effect that this has had to M-Pinsir in the ORAS metagame has been too negatively exaggerated.

Let's look at the new, fast and offensive megas ORAS brought sorted by speed: M-Beedrill, M-Sceptile, M-Lopunny, M-Pidgeot, M-Diancie, M-Gallade, M-Metagross.

Bold indicates a x2 weakness to M-Pinsir's Aerilate Quick Attack and all those Pokemon are 2HKO'd minimum:

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Beedrill: 396-468 (146.1 - 172.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 248-294 (88.2 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny: 224-266 (82.6 - 98.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 204-242 (73.6 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Bare in mind this is before a Swords Dance. M-Pinsir has the bulk to survive any of the above mega's neutral attacks and Swords Dance there and then. After a swords dance, not even M-Diancie or M-Metagross can tank a +2 CC too well and both are OHKO'd with EQ. Also note that the turn M-Diancie and M-Metagross mega evolve, M-Pinsir will outspeed both.

+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 275-324 (90.4 - 106.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 209-247 (69.4 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 350-412 (116.2 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Of course, the M-Diancie and M-Metagross calc's were assuming that M-Pinsir has already set up. In a 1v1, M-Pinsir doesn't fare too well against both these Pokemon but these are the only mega's that affect M-Pinsir.

If these Pokemon rise in usage, maybe a drop from A+ to A may be justified but due to the sheer destructiveness of M-Pinsir, and the fact that not much stops it after a boost, I think M-Pinsir is fine for the ORAS metagame and should honestly stay A+.

Note: I have intentionally not mentioned M-Salamence since I believe it's ban is a question of 'when' rather than 'if.' I also think that the opportunity cost argument of 'there's no need to use M-Pinsir if M-Salamence exists' isn't very fair since this can be applied to every single mega (that's just how broken it is).

Thanks for reading! I hope I haven't screwed my first post up too much lol.

 

[AM]

Hey everyone. I apologise for the change in pace but I'd like to discuss Mega-Pinsir's massive upcoming drop from A+ to B.

Yeah I mean it's pretty obvious why M-Pinsir dropped to such a degree and while I agree with you in a general sense this is one of those things we'll have to wait before providing it a concrete ranking. For all we know after the M-Salamence boot M-Pinsirs checks and counters may still have plenty of usage which will make it a hassle to use. Then again it does check a bunch of stuff with priority and is still a dangerous set up sweeper so we would have to see how it handles the various archetypes.

 

[Kurona]

Hey everyone. I apologise for the change in pace but I'd like to discuss Mega-Pinsir's massive upcoming drop from A+ to B.

For a start, I do understand why M-Pinsir is frowned upon in ORAS since the new speed tier benchmark (especially for mega evolutions) is now 110 and M-Pinsir's 105 speed just about misses out. However, I think that the effect that this has had to M-Pinsir in the ORAS metagame has been too negatively exaggerated.

Let's look at the new, fast and offensive megas ORAS brought sorted by speed: M-Beedrill, M-Sceptile, M-Lopunny, M-Pidgeot, M-Diancie, M-Gallade, M-Metagross.

Bold indicates a x2 weakness to M-Pinsir's Aerilate Quick Attack and all those Pokemon are 2HKO'd minimum:


Bare in mind this is before a swords dance. M-Pinsir has the bulk to survive any of the above mega's neutral attacks and swords dance there and then. After a swords dance, not even M-Diancie or M-Metagross can tank a +2 CC too well and both are OHKO'd with EQ. Also note that the turn M-Diancie and M-Metagross mega evolve, M-Pinsir will outspeed both.



Of course, the M-Diancie and M-Metagross calc's were assuming that M-Pinsir has already set up. In a 1v1, M-Pinsir doesn't fare too well against both these Pokemon but these are the only mega's that affect M-Pinsir.

If these Pokemon rise in usage, maybe a drop from A+ to A may be justified but due to the sheer destructiveness of M-Pinsir, and the fact that not much stops it after a boost, I think M-Pinsir is fine for the ORAS metagame and should honestly stay A+.

Note: I have intentionally not mentioned M-Salamence since I believe it's ban is a question of 'when' rather than 'if.' I also think that the opportunity cost argument of 'there's no need to use M-Pinsir if M-Salamence exists' isn't very fair since this can be applied to every single mega (that's just how broken it is).

Thanks for reading! I hope I haven't screwed my first post up too much lol.

Oh I honestly wouldn't worry much about this at all. It literally just dropped because Salamence existed; once the broken thing's gone Pinsir'll be shooting right back up to the A tiers.
That said, it's speed tier isn't quiiite as good and there are a few more things against it; so I could see it possibly going to A instead of A+.

 

[Notorious544d]

Oh I honestly wouldn't worry much about this at all. It literally just dropped because Salamence existed; once the broken thing's gone Pinsir'll be shooting right back up to the A tiers.
That said, it's speed tier isn't quiiite as good and there are a few more things against it; so I could see it possibly going to A instead of A+.

Bare in mind that the only change in the metagame in ORAS compared to XY is the new megas (and new tutor moves to an extent). The speed creep comes only from mega Pokemon and M-Pinsir only has issues with two of them.

Dropping all the way down to B is just way too harsh, even in a M-Salamence metagame.

 

[Master B8s]

Hey everyone. I apologise for the change in pace but I'd like to discuss Mega-Pinsir's massive upcoming drop from A+ to B.

For a start, I do understand why M-Pinsir is frowned upon in ORAS since the new speed tier benchmark (especially for mega evolutions) is now 110 and M-Pinsir's 105 speed just about misses out. However, I think that the effect that this has had to M-Pinsir in the ORAS metagame has been too negatively exaggerated.

Let's look at the new, fast and offensive megas ORAS brought sorted by speed: M-Beedrill, M-Sceptile, M-Lopunny, M-Pidgeot, M-Diancie, M-Gallade, M-Metagross.

Bold indicates a x2 weakness to M-Pinsir's Aerilate Quick Attack and all those Pokemon are 2HKO'd minimum:


Bare in mind this is before a swords dance. M-Pinsir has the bulk to survive any of the above mega's neutral attacks and swords dance there and then. After a swords dance, not even M-Diancie or M-Metagross can tank a +2 CC too well and both are OHKO'd with EQ. Also note that the turn M-Diancie and M-Metagross mega evolve, M-Pinsir will outspeed both.



Of course, the M-Diancie and M-Metagross calc's were assuming that M-Pinsir has already set up. In a 1v1, M-Pinsir doesn't fare too well against both these Pokemon but these are the only mega's that affect M-Pinsir.

If these Pokemon rise in usage, maybe a drop from A+ to A may be justified but due to the sheer destructiveness of M-Pinsir, and the fact that not much stops it after a boost, I think M-Pinsir is fine for the ORAS metagame and should honestly stay A+.

Note: I have intentionally not mentioned M-Salamence since I believe it's ban is a question of 'when' rather than 'if.' I also think that the opportunity cost argument of 'there's no need to use M-Pinsir if M-Salamence exists' isn't very fair since this can be applied to every single mega (that's just how broken it is).

Thanks for reading! I hope I haven't screwed my first post up too much lol.

While I do agree pinser is a huge threat, it still should drop, certainly not to B though. My problem with him is that yes his defensive stats look great, but it's thrown off by his horrible base 65 HP. The second problem is that it's a one trick pony. When I see mega pinser, I know it's gonna be SD. It doesn't really have any versatility to get around its checks and counters, so rhyperior, or skarmory, or anything that countered/checked him before still and always will. The third reason is the support it needs. Yes i know that just because it has a stealth rock weakness doesn't means it's bad, but bar a ground immunity, mega pinser provides little to no defensive switch ins, so you'll usually have to sack something to get it in safely and start setting up. Mega pinser wasn't hurt as bad from the speed creep, but it still is getting hurt from this fast paced meta.

 

[Kurona]

Bare in mind that the only change in the metagame in ORAS compared to XY is the new megas (and new tutor moves to an extent). The speed creep comes only from mega Pokemon and M-Pinsir only has issues with two of them.

Dropping all the way down to B is just way too harsh, even in a M-Salamence metagame.

The thing is Mega Salamence completely outclasses Mega Pinsir in every way aside from not having priority or swords dance, neither of which the dragon ever needs. If a Pokémon that was good is now highly outclassed by another, it'll drop down, hence the B ranking - and I assure you, soon as MegaMence has gone, Mega Pinsir's going right back up. Maybe not to A+, but it's definitely not going anywhere lower than A imo.

 

[Notorious544d]

While I do agree pinser is a huge threat, it still should drop, certainly not to B though. My problem with him is that yes his defensive stats look great, but it's thrown off by his horrible base 65 HP. The second problem is that it's a one trick pony. When I see mega pinser, I know it's gonna be SD. It doesn't really have any versatility to get around its checks and counters, so rhyperior, or skarmory, or anything that countered/checked him before still and always will. The third reason is the support it needs. Yes i know that just because it has a stealth rock weakness doesn't means it's bad, but bar a ground immunity, mega pinser provides little to no defensive switch ins, so you'll usually have to sack something to get it in safely and start setting up. Mega pinser wasn't hurt as bad from the speed creep, but it still is getting hurt from this fast paced meta.

M-Pinsir is best used as a late-game sweeper, after its checks (like skarmory and rhyperior) have been weakened. Yes, it does need support but it also needed support in XY and it was still A+.

ORAS is not that much more 'fast-paced' than XY, and if M-Pinsir is not affected that much by the speed creep, I see no reason for it to drop post-M-Salamence era.

The thing is Mega Salamence completely outclasses Mega Pinsir in every way aside from not having priority or swords dance, neither of which the dragon ever needs. If a Pokémon that was good is now highly outclassed by another, it'll drop down, hence the B ranking - and I assure you, soon as MegaMence has gone, Mega Pinsir's going right back up. Maybe not to A+, but it's definitely not going anywhere lower than A imo.

I do understand that M-Salamence totally outclasses it, but M-Salamence also totally outclasses M-Altaria for example. Is M-Altaria B?

 

[Anduril]

M-Pinsir is best used as a late-game sweeper, after its checks (like skarmory and rhyperior) have been weakened. Yes, it does need support but it also needed support in XY and it was still A+.

ORAS is not that much more 'fast-paced' than XY, and if M-Pinsir is not affected that much by the speed creep, I see no reason for it to drop post-M-Salamence era.

I do understand that M-Salamence totally outclasses it, but M-Salamence also totally outclasses M-Altaria for example. Is M-Altaria B?

Mega Altaria has an amazing defensive typing and can be used as a cleric. I can't stress enough that whatever Pinsir tries to do, Salamence can simply do it better. Until Salamence is banned, the rankings should reflect this. It's exactly like Gallade vs. Medicham. Medicham has a couple perks over Gallade (Fake Out, immediate power), but Gallade is simply better.

 

[Notorious544d]

Mega Altaria has an amazing defensive typing and can be used as a cleric. I can't stress enough that whatever Pinsir tries to do, Salamence can simply do it better. Until Salamence is banned, the rankings should reflect this.

M-Salamence has amazing defensive bulk and can be used as a cleric (wish/roost/refresh, although nobody uses this). Yes, M-Pinsir is totally outclassed, but so is M-Altaria, DD M-Gyarados and M-Charizard X, but none of them has dropped to B.

Once again, I just think the rankings are too harsh.

 

[Firebird101]

M-Salamence has amazing defensive bulk and can be used as a cleric (wish/roost/refresh, although nobody uses this). Yes, M-Pinsir is totally outclassed, but so is M-Altaria, DD M-Gyarados and M-Charizard X, but none of them has dropped to B.

Once again, I just think the rankings are too harsh.

All of the changes caused by Mega Salamence's will be reevaluated once it goes. Do not worry, we mean no disrespect to Mega Pinsir but at the moment it is outclassed the hardest by it so please bear with us just a little while longer.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

M-Salamence has amazing defensive bulk and can be used as a cleric (wish/roost/refresh, although nobody uses this). Yes, M-Pinsir is totally outclassed, but so is M-Altaria, DD M-Gyarados and M-Charizard X, but none of them has dropped to B.

Once again, I just think the rankings are too harsh.

A cleric has to be able to heal status on everyone. What you described is a Wish Passer. M-Altaria has Heal Bell, which lets it be a cleric. Mega Gyrados and Mega Zard X are arguably outclassed as Dragon Dances, but their movepools are different enough to give them notably different checks and counters from Mega Salamence. Pinsir is checked by pretty much everything that checks Mega Salamence and then some, so anyone who preps for Mega Mence also preps for Mega Pinsir without trying. As a result, using Mega Pinsir doesn't really catch anyone off guard, and it ends up being just a Mega Mence with less power and coverage.

 

[Notorious544d]

A cleric has to be able to heal status on everyone. What you described is a Wish Passer. M-Altaria has Heal Bell, which lets it be a cleric. Mega Gyrados and Mega Zard X are arguably outclassed as Dragon Dances, but their movepools are different enough to give them notably different checks and counters from Mega Salamence. Pinsir is checked by pretty much everything that checks Mega Salamence and then some, so anyone who preps for Mega Mence also preps for Mega Pinsir without trying. As a result, using Mega Pinsir doesn't really catch anyone off guard, and it ends up being just a Mega Mence with less power and coverage.

The preparation argument is interesting but in practice, I once again think it's slightly exaggerated. Mamoswine's ice shard fails to OHKO for instance and Porygon2 is hurt by CC. Scarf Greninja will be OHKO's by Quick Attack if M-Pinsir has already set up.

Also, SD Jolly M-Pinsir has noticeably more power than a DD Adamant M-Salamence. 818 vs 642 attack shows that a set-up M-Pinsir hits 27% harder.

Lastly, I'd like to re-iterate that I do understand that M-Pinsir is outclassed and that a drop in ranking is justified in this M-Salamence metagame but B is too much. Does the viability of M-Pinsir equal that to a M-Camerupt for example? ForumBeta also mentioned the M-Gallade and M-Medicham debate and how M-Medicham is outclassed yet we see no drop in ranking for M-Medicham.

 

[Firebird101]

The preparation argument is interesting but in practice, I once again think it's slightly exaggerated. Mamoswine's ice shard fails to OHKO for instance and Porygon2 is hurt by CC. Scarf Greninja will be OHKO's by Quick Attack if M-Pinsir has already set up.

Also, SD Jolly M-Pinsir has noticeably more power than a DD Adamant M-Salamence. 818 vs 642 attack shows that a set-up M-Pinsir hits 27% harder.

Lastly, I'd like to re-iterate that I do understand that M-Pinsir is outclassed and that a drop in ranking is justified in this M-Salamence metagame but B is too much. Does the viability of M-Pinsir equal that to a M-Camerupt for example? ForumBeta also mentioned the M-Gallade and M-Medicham debate and how M-Medicham is outclassed yet we see no drop in ranking for M-Medicham.

Mega Pinsir has more power, that is true. However Dragon Dance raises Mega Mence speed to such heights it makes needs for priority unneeded while Mega Pinsir relies more on quick attack and therefore doesn't hits as hard unless it definitely outspeeds.

Personally I think the drop is pointless and would just be a waste of time but at the moment there is just no reason to use it over Mega Salamence.

And Mega Medicham's rank has been questioned and would also be put into B rank for being outclassed by Mega Gallade and unlike Mega Pinsir it's rank isn't likely to get higher any time soon as Mega Gallade is nowhere broken.

 

[AM]

The preparation argument is interesting but in practice, I once again think it's slightly exaggerated. Mamoswine's ice shard fails to OHKO for instance and Porygon2 is hurt by CC. Scarf Greninja will be OHKO's by Quick Attack if M-Pinsir has already set up.

Also, SD Jolly M-Pinsir has noticeably more power than a DD Adamant M-Salamence. 818 vs 642 attack shows that a set-up M-Pinsir hits 27% harder.

Lastly, I'd like to re-iterate that I do understand that M-Pinsir is outclassed and that a drop in ranking is justified in this M-Salamence metagame but B is too much. Does the viability of M-Pinsir equal that to a M-Camerupt for example? ForumBeta also mentioned the M-Gallade and M-Medicham debate and how M-Medicham is outclassed yet we see no drop in ranking for M-Medicham.

Alexwolf even stated that the rankings would be a bit chaotic due to the metagame changes and transition from XY. Obviously some things will go higher or lower but many of whats on the rankings is a placeholder for now and will be fixed overtime especially with M-Mence not having this enormous factor on it once it leaves. It's a momentary change and your suggestion won't even take place until about a week or when M-Mence is gone so just sit back and relax for a bit.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Okay wait, why are people asking for Mega Sharpedo to go up? I honestly think this thing should go down if anything, because I really see very little reason to use it in OU right now. Outside of I guess the ability to go mixed (and even then it's pretty weak sauce with no Life Orb boost) and more initial speed, the only thing that it has over Mega Gyarados is more initial power on Crunch, and that's rarely going to actually be useful in a real match. Either you Mega evolve immediately to take advantage of that initial power and lose the ability to gain Speed Boosts, or you use Protect to get a guaranteed Speed Boost and you end up weaker than a Mega Gyarados who used that same turn to Dragon Dance. Mega Sharpedo is really frail, it's pretty darn weak when it's not using Crunch, and it can't come in and out and do its job effectively because you can't get Speed Boosts anymore after you Mega evolve. It's heavily overshadowed by Mega Gyarados, and you want me to give up my Mega slot for this thing? No, I'd really rather see this thing drop to C Rank or something, and even that's just because it can go mixed, which is one thing that Mega Gyarados can't do. Otherwise, I'd much rather use Mega Gyarados with its far greater bulk, useful defensive utility in both its normal and Mega forms, mind games that it plays with its changing typing, and ability to boost its power far beyond what Mega Sharpedo is capable of putting out.

 

[Baharoth]

The preparation argument is interesting but in practice, I once again think it's slightly exaggerated. Mamoswine's ice shard fails to OHKO for instance and Porygon2 is hurt by CC. Scarf Greninja will be OHKO's by Quick Attack if M-Pinsir has already set up.

Also, SD Jolly M-Pinsir has noticeably more power than a DD Adamant M-Salamence. 818 vs 642 attack shows that a set-up M-Pinsir hits 27% harder.

Lastly, I'd like to re-iterate that I do understand that M-Pinsir is outclassed and that a drop in ranking is justified in this M-Salamence metagame but B is too much. Does the viability of M-Pinsir equal that to a M-Camerupt for example? ForumBeta also mentioned the M-Gallade and M-Medicham debate and how M-Medicham is outclassed yet we see no drop in ranking for M-Medicham.

Well Medicham has some perks over Gallade, it hits unboosted almost as hard as Gallade after an SD boost and it has fake out + Bulletpunch as priority. It got worse due to Sableeye and Slowbro mega and faces competition from Gallade but its not totaly outclassed by it. Pinsir on the other hand has literally nothing over Mence. Yeah Quickattack but thats it and it is just so much worse in every other aspect that its almost impossible to justify using Pinsir while Salamence is around. Taking that into consideration even a C rank would be possible tbh. Yeah Pinsir is still a good mon but with salamence around there is just no reason to use it at all except from style maybe. So yeah imo that B rank is fine for Pinsir, Medi could drop a rank or two but its a different case from Pinsir imo. There are reasons to use Cham over Gallade, but not to use Pinsir over Salamence.

 

[Kurona]

Well Medicham does have some perks over Gallade, it hits unboosted almost as hard as Gallade after an SD boost and it has fake out + Bulletpunch as priority. It got worse due to Sableeye and Slowbro mega and faces competition from Gallade but its not totaly outclassed by it. Pinsir on the other hand has literally nothing over Mence. Yeah Quickattack but thats it and it is just so much worse in every other aspect that its almost impossible to justify using Pinsir while Salamence is around. Taking that into consideration even a C rank would be possible tbh. Yeah Pinsir is still a good mon but with salamence around there is just no reason to use it at all except from style maybe. So yeah imo that B rank is fine for Pinsir, Medi could drop a rank or two but its a different case from Pinsir imo. There are reasons to use Cham over Gallade, but not to use Pinsir over Salamence.

Gallade has priority in Shadow Sneak, so Bullet Punch certainly can't be used as an argument here. The reasons to use Medicham over Gallade are about as minuscule as the reasons to use Pinsir over Salamence and so it should go to the B rankings. Even when not comparing it with Gallade, there's better wallbreakers around, it's bulk non-existant and it's speed tier really isn't as good as it used to be.

 

[Baharoth]

Fine then forgett Bullet Punch. It still has Fake out to evolve safely and rack up damage and far greater unboosted power. Yes it got worse but the way i see it its not totaly outclassed. The power alone can be reason enough to use it over Gallade. Cant say that for Pinsir.

 

[DaVolterbomb]

Ill give my 2 cents on Mega Pinsir

Mega Pinsir is definetly not the force it was in the XY meta. Obviously, its mainly the speed tier that fucks it. Things like Mega Diancie, Metagross, Salamance, Talonflame, etc. really fuck it up. Sure, it has access to SD and priority, but with the speed tier and the introduction of more bulkier megas, QA is useless. Return also is shit cause with the speed tier it barely gets the first turn. This thing is also too frail for the meta, as all the megas also hit much harder. Finally, it has no access to improve its speed, further increasing its speed problem. This thing will be fine in B even after MMence ban.

Also its no doubt MGallade>MMedi. they both form the same role and MGallade is basically superior in any way. Sure, HJK hits harder, but MGallade lives much longer and is powerful even without Pure Power. Mega Gallade 2HKO's most of the meta, with its powerful CC that doesn't risk half of his health being taken away. Gallade also has much more bulk, faster speed, etc. and access to much better Priority. Fake out may stun the first turn, but it usually doesn't do more than 30%.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Ill give my 2 cents on Mega Pinsir

Mega Pinsir is definetly not the force it was in the XY meta. Obviously, its mainly the speed tier that fucks it. Things like Mega Diancie, Metagross, Salamance, Talonflame, etc. really fuck it up. Sure, it has access to SD and priority, but with the speed tier and the introduction of more bulkier megas, QA is useless. Return also is shit cause with the speed tier it barely gets the first turn. This thing is also too frail for the meta, as all the megas also hit much harder. Finally, it has no access to improve its speed, further increasing its speed problem. This thing will be fine in B even after MMence ban.

The speed creep may mean that Pinsir is not quite as good as it was in XY, but a drop from A+ to B is ridiculous. No one should kid themselves, it's only there because Salamence is better.

 

[Wargreymon]

Ill give my 2 cents on Mega Pinsir

Mega Pinsir is definetly not the force it was in the XY meta. Obviously, its mainly the speed tier that fucks it. Things like Mega Diancie, Metagross, Salamance, Talonflame, etc. really fuck it up. Sure, it has access to SD and priority, but with the speed tier and the introduction of more bulkier megas, QA is useless. Return also is shit cause with the speed tier it barely gets the first turn. This thing is also too frail for the meta, as all the megas also hit much harder. Finally, it has no access to improve its speed, further increasing its speed problem. This thing will be fine in B even after MMence ban.

Also its no doubt MGallade>MMedi. they both form the same role and MGallade is basically superior in any way. Sure, HJK hits harder, but MGallade lives much longer and is powerful even without Pure Power. Mega Gallade 2HKO's most of the meta, with its powerful CC that doesn't risk half of his health being taken away. Gallade also has much more bulk, faster speed, etc. and access to much better Priority. Fake out may stun the first turn, but it usually doesn't do more than 30%.

Okay first of all out of the 3 things you mentioned that "fuck it up" 1 will be banned and the other existed in XY. QA is not useless either and never has been, it's moderately powerful priority at neutral used for picking off weakened faster threats and very strong priority at +2. Return is not shit because of the speed tier either, that's ridiculous. Return is a complete nuke and Mega Pinsir actually sits at a rather nice speed tier even if it has some new checks. 105 is fine and by no means a disadvantage. It's a little frail, i'll give you that, but how do all the mega pokemon hit much harder? Very few things in the game hit harder than pinsir's aerilate return. It almost 2HKO's slowbro.

Tl;dr There is no way in any existing universe or dimension that Mega Pinsir would only be a B rank pokemon after Mega Salamence goes.

 

[DaVolterbomb]

Okay first of all out of the 3 things you mentioned that "fuck it up" 1 will be banned and the other existed in XY. QA is not useless either and never has been, it's moderately powerful priority at neutral used for picking off weakened faster threats and very strong priority at +2. Return is not shit because of the speed tier either, that's ridiculous. Return is a complete nuke and Mega Pinsir actually sits at a rather nice speed tier even if it has some new checks. 105 is fine and by no means a disadvantage. It's a little frail, i'll give you that, but how do all the mega pokemon hit much harder? Very few things in the game hit harder than pinsir's aerilate return. It almost 2HKO's slowbro.

Tl;dr There is no way in any existing universe or dimension that Mega Pinsir would only be a B rank pokemon after Mega Salamence goes.

The speed creep may mean that Pinsir is not quite as good as it was in XY, but a drop from A+ to B is ridiculous. No one should kid themselves, it's only there because Salamence is better.

Eh, i gotta agree with you guys, B is harsh.
Possibly B+, but no more than A-.

Also i hate to nitpick but imo the Conclusion Reached Pokemon should be empty of all S rank mons and to only have the 4 shitty unviable pokemon that shits the chat. Just a suggestion.

 

[Jin White]

Ill give my 2 cents on Mega Pinsir

Mega Pinsir is definetly not the force it was in the XY meta. Obviously, its mainly the speed tier that fucks it. Things like Mega Diancie, Metagross, Salamance, Talonflame, etc. really fuck it up. Sure, it has access to SD and priority, but with the speed tier and the introduction of more bulkier megas, QA is useless. Return also is shit cause with the speed tier it barely gets the first turn. This thing is also too frail for the meta, as all the megas also hit much harder. Finally, it has no access to improve its speed, further increasing its speed problem. This thing will be fine in B even after MMence ban.

Strong disagree.

What is a speed tier to a monster with SD + Aerilate boosted priority?

How many of the new megas - namely the faster ones - are weak to flying? Don't let the shiny new toy syndrome fool you. Certain XY megas like M-Pinsir & M-Scizor are being drastically underrated in light of Mega Mence & the other newcomers, though in actual fact they're well equipped to wreck all the new toys we're getting.