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np: UU Stage 1 - Changes
- Thread starter Calloflochie
- Start date
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Except with something that resists Fighting instead of being weak to it?
This is actually a point I wanted to touch on. For the most part, Fighting-types in UU are countered, hard, by Crobat, Cresselia, Cofagrigus, Nidoqueen, and rarely by Aromatisse. Both of the new powerful Fighters have a STAB option to break all but one or two of the Pokemon. Terrakion has Stone Edge and Heracross has Megahorn. As you can see, Stone Edge has significantly better coverage on these Pokemon, but Heracross has two (sorta three) things that give him an edge over Terrakion: Knock Off and Guts (+Facade). Heracross can also much more comfortably run an Adamant Nature, giving him more power, even absorbing hits better thanks to a superior defensive typing. Meanwhile, Terrakion can use Rock Polish to oustpeed every single Scarfer viable in UU and down.
TL;DR: Terrakion has mostly usurped Mienshao's spot as the premier "speedy" Fighter an Heracross has completely-and-them-some usurped Machamp's spot as the slower wallbreaking Fighter.
But wait, Lord of Bays! Mienshao has Regenerator, Reckless, and U-turn! Surely he still has a place! And Machamp has Dynamic Punch, Heavy Slam, and Bullet Punch! He's not worthless!
Not really. Terrakion's far better typing (he doesn't get OHKO'd when Crobat looks at him funny, as well as being able to switch in on Cross Poison) and higher speed mean that the only niche Mienshao has is the annoying-but-hilariously-manageable Fake Out Life Orb attacker. Guts Choice Band Heracross is all I really need to say to let you know that Machamp's time in UU is over. If he got Mach Punch, he might have a place, but unSTAB Bullet Punch is not enough.
Seriously, have you SEEN the kind of damage Heracross puts out?
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
Stone Edge + Earthquake Hippowdon
Mega Aerodactyl checks both, but it needs rocks to get the KO on Terrakion. Can't really think of anything else that kills both, but stuff like Rotom-Heat, Fletchinder, Cresselia and Granbull do a nice job at taking one of them.
THIS BAD BOY
Gligar @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity / Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Atk / 64 Def
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Acrobatics
- Roost
OHKOs Mega Pinsir with Stone Edge, OHKOs Heracross with Acrobatics even with Eviolite, and is 3HKOed by the rest assuming no stupidity like CB/special Salamence, and still has Roost for healing. The fact that I'm actually serious about fucking three attacks Gligar shows how dire the situation is. You can run Hyper Cutter and Defog instead if you don't care about Heracross and do care about Intimidate tho.
Regirock has 200 base defence... it can stomach a SE non-STAB CC at +2 and OHKO with stone edge.
And if doesn't, then Pinsir needs to go even quicker lol.
I was actually thinking of Heracross and Terrakion, but your point is valid.
Unsurprisingly for the games I've played so far, Gligar is absolutely everywhere, no doubt for it's ability to switch into Heracross reasonably comfortably and Terrakion somewhat, but a fun thing I was playing around with was a BW relic in HP Ice Terrakion.
These are the sets I used:
Heracross @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 244 Atk / 12 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
This lures in Gligar for it to be 2HKOed by HP Ice(12 SpA EVs guarantees this against 252 HP / 252+ Def Gligar which I assume will become the standard in a physically dominated metagame). With Gligar weakened, Heracross becomes absolutely terrifying to any notion of a balanced team with the only other thing checking these two being Doublade, who is savaged by Hera's Knock Off and won't appreciate Terrak's EQ.
12 SpA Life Orb Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 172-203 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
These are the sets I used:
Heracross @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 244 Atk / 12 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
This lures in Gligar for it to be 2HKOed by HP Ice(12 SpA EVs guarantees this against 252 HP / 252+ Def Gligar which I assume will become the standard in a physically dominated metagame). With Gligar weakened, Heracross becomes absolutely terrifying to any notion of a balanced team with the only other thing checking these two being Doublade, who is savaged by Hera's Knock Off and won't appreciate Terrak's EQ.
12 SpA Life Orb Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 172-203 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Council needs to have some sense and quick ban M-Pinsir. There is absolutely no reason for it to even be in this tier for a second. It was a suspect in OU before, thats the only proof anyone needs to know that shit needs to go, no discussion just do it.
Edit:Wasn't actually suspected, but was damn near close, still proof enough.
Edit:Wasn't actually suspected, but was damn near close, still proof enough.
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Mega Pinsir was never suspected in OU
Yeah it never was, but it sure as hell was pretty close to being suspected at one point-With Mega Pinsir, we're looking at a mon that was dominant in OU earlier this gen...yeah, there's no way this thing will be manageable in UU.
But as I said in the shifts thread, this will be good for RU and NU I guess (moreso NU).
performance in another tier doesn't always reflect the brokenness in a lower tier. ie zapdos is very good in ou, but not even remotely broken in uu.
Mega-Pinsir is probably gonna be quick banned, so don't get your panties in a knot. I think terrak will probably get the boot too. I think Hera and Mence (regular forms ofc) are pretty manageable right now.
Mega-Pinsir is probably gonna be quick banned, so don't get your panties in a knot. I think terrak will probably get the boot too. I think Hera and Mence (regular forms ofc) are pretty manageable right now.
Zapdos is not "very good" in OU, in fact it should really be seeing low enough usage to drop (certainly it deserves it more than Pinsir). Also it was never near broken in OU, the highest it got on the viability rankings was A- and it has consistently been used for its defensive set. I agree that it wouldn't be broken here, but if anything it'd be better here than in OU. At least it could run non-outclassed offensive sets. I actually really want it to drop, mostly so I could use offensive Zapdos effectively without going to an old gen. (also somewhat relevantly it can hard check MPinsir, basically it always switches in and wins unless Birdbug has already boosted, which should never happen)
Also Mence seems fun ah, but I definitely do not want to play with Pinsirite and Terrak around.
Well OU took all the good bird spam checks it is why we can't have any in this tier :(
That usually only applies to defensive pokemon. Mega Pinsir is just way too obviously broken plus OU has most of the good checks to it; it doesn't matter what tier it's in, Aerialate Returns destroy worlds.
Pokemon can be suspected and banned for being too good defensively. That's why Giratina and Lugia are Uber. Cress herself is BL2, and Zygarde is BL because of SubCoil, not DD.
Are we going to have a different np thread or not?
Thank you all for your comments throughout this new stage of UU but we got a new more funky thread for you guys to enjoy.
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