Pokémon Lopunny

[Kurona]

A little minor thing I enjoy is Lopunny's initial immunity to paralysis before evolving. Can come in on something using t-wave, mega evolve, fake out and then murder with return/hjk.

 

[final-baga-fantasy]

there's a difference to put the last 4 EVs in HP or DEF? after Greninja's ban is bettere adamant or jolly?

 

[Slowking88]

there's a difference to put the last 4 EVs in HP or DEF? after Greninja's ban is bettere adamant or jolly?

I'd put them in def, because if you put them in hp you'll die to two misses from hjk, while without it you'll survive 2 (atleast I'm pretty sure, might be the other way around, too lazy to look at atm)

As for Adamant or jolly, I think adamant is better, as I can't think of anything really important that outspeeds it if adamant and doesn't if jolly.(Once again, I can be wrong here)

 

[Inflikted]

Atm i can only think of Tornadus-T, Weavile, +1 Adamant Mega Altaria, Scarf Gothitelle, Scarf Magneton, Alakazam and Sceptile before the Mega Evolution.
Anyway revenging +1 mega altaria can be kinda big and Tornadus-T is becoming more and more relevant on the Greninja-less ladder; Scarf Goth also gained a bit of popularity. And of course Jolly allows you to at least hope for a speed tie against opposing Mega Lopunny and Manectric. It really depends on how much you're worried about these things.

 

[Kurona]

Atm i can only think of Tornadus-T, Weavile, +1 Adamant Mega Altaria, Scarf Gothitelle, Scarf Magneton, Alakazam and Sceptile before the Mega Evolution.
Anyway revenging +1 mega altaria can be kinda big and Tornadus-T is becoming more and more relevant on the Greninja-less ladder; Scarf Goth also gained a bit of popularity. And of course Jolly allows you to at least hope for a speed tie against opposing Mega Lopunny and Manectric. It really depends on how much you're worried about these things.

There's also Mega Pidgeot, +1 Mega T-tar, Aero before megalution and Mega Man.
As a general rule of thumb, Jolly Lop outspeeds max positive natured speed 119-134 (speed tying with 135 ofc), while Adamant Lop can't. Same goes for max invested positive natured scarfers or +1s of base 63-73.
And just for number crunching; Adamant Lop is 369 (of course this Pokémon reaches a number including 69), while Jolly Lop is 405.

 

[Iyokuu]

Thumper bump.

Has anybody tried using Quick Attack on our playboy bunny? It's not the greatest priority attack in the world but it looks fine on paper.

I've actually ran QA over Fake Out since day 1. I thought it was better priority, not afraid of the speed difference in my mega evolution or a safe one since I played around slow pokes. The flinch from Fake out helps out, but that last minute priority they don't expect has always earned me the kill or kill position. Reading this entire thread and looking at Healing Wish has made me curious about that move though.

 

[Blazikarados]

A little minor thing I enjoy is Lopunny's initial immunity to paralysis before evolving. Can come in on something using t-wave, mega evolve, fake out and then murder with return/hjk.

While this would work for normal T-wavers, I would like to note that against Thundurus, if it Fakes Out the Thundurus then it either has to go Mega and get Twaved next turn, switch, or not go Mega (in which case the Thundurus still outruns Lopunny).

 

[SM979]

I would like to discuss the viability of this fairly gimmicky set:

Last Resort
########
name: Last Resort
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: High Jump Kick
move 3: Last Resort
ability: Limber
item: Lopunnite
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

After a teammate gets KOed by a Pokemon that is 2HKOed by a combination of Fake Out and High Jump Kick, send in Lopunny, Mega Evolve, use Fake Out, and follow up with a High Jump Kick. From there on, you may proceed to spam Last Resort and High Jump Kick; the two providing decent coverage alongside one another. Thanks to Scrappy, this set is not walled by Ghost-types.

 

[Master Gemerald]

It seems like a neat idea, but I'm not even sure that there are enough Pokemon that get OHKO'd by Last Resort that would justify sacrificing coverage in Ice Punch or utility in Lopunny's other moves.

 

[firehusky]

Dang it, I would've wanted to see some calcs of how powerful Mega Lopunny's last resort was, but unfortunately, it's not programmed onto the ORAS damage calc.

 

[SM979]

It seems like a neat idea, but I'm not even sure that there are enough Pokemon that get OHKO'd by Last Resort that would justify sacrificing coverage in Ice Punch or utility in Lopunny's other moves.

Thanks for the feedback. I will provide damage calculations sometime later today or tomorrow.

Dang it, I would've wanted to see some calcs of how powerful Mega Lopunny's last resort was, but unfortunately, it's not programmed onto the ORAS damage calc.

Just change the Base Power of Return.

 

[firehusky]

Wait, you can do that?
Lemme go check that out right now.

 

[SM979]

Here are some of the damage calculations that I said that I would provide.

Vs. Offensive Mega Venusaur:

• 252 Atk Mega Lopunny Last Resort vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 198-234 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  
• 252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return (102 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 144-171 (39.5 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Vs. Defensive Amoonguss:

• 252 Atk Mega Lopunny Last Resort vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Amoonguss: 241-285 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
• 252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return (102 BP) vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Amoonguss: 177-208 (40.9 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Vs. Cleric Sylveon:

• 252 Atk Mega Lopunny Last Resort vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 229-271 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return (102 BP) vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

More to come.

 

[The Great Gastly]

I would like to discuss the viability of this fairly gimmicky set:

Last Resort
########
name: Last Resort
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: High Jump Kick
move 3: Last Resort
ability: Limber
item: Lopunnite
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

After a teammate gets KOed by a Pokemon that is 2HKOed by a combination of Fake Out and High Jump Kick, send in Lopunny, Mega Evolve, use Fake Out, and follow up with a High Jump Kick. From there on, you may proceed to spam Last Resort and High Jump Kick; the two providing decent coverage alongside one another. Thanks to Scrappy, this set is not walled by Ghost-types.

This sounds like such a fun gimmick, I'll have to try it! Those calcs look promising.

However, the low PP (8) of Last Resort might make it hard to spam. :(

 

[mochi_sux]

I would like to discuss the viability of this fairly gimmicky set:

Last Resort
########
name: Last Resort
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: High Jump Kick
move 3: Last Resort
ability: Limber
item: Lopunnite
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

After a teammate gets KOed by a Pokemon that is 2HKOed by a combination of Fake Out and High Jump Kick, send in Lopunny, Mega Evolve, use Fake Out, and follow up with a High Jump Kick. From there on, you may proceed to spam Last Resort and High Jump Kick; the two providing decent coverage alongside one another. Thanks to Scrappy, this set is not walled by Ghost-types.

I've used a similar set to this, in Ambipom, to great effect. It's a good sweeping option, but this set would be harder to utilize due to the forced use of HJK (whereas with Ambipom, Last Resort was its only other move besides Fake Out)
If someone could provide some battles of this set, that would be great to see, I'll definitely experiment with it as well

 

[firehusky]

I've used a similar set to this, in Ambipom, to great effect. It's a good sweeping option, but this set would be harder to utilize due to the forced use of HJK (whereas with Ambipom, Last Resort was its only other move besides Fake Out)
If someone could provide some battles of this set, that would be great to see, I'll definitely experiment with it as well

On ambipom, last resort is really gimmicky, as it doesn't have scrappy, so it's walled by ghosts, steels and rock types. However, lopunny doesn't need to worry about ghosts, steels and rock types, since gengar is like OHKOed by last resort, whereas steel types and rock types are hit super effectively by high jump kick.

I was thinking you could also run power up punch over hjk, as you can come in on something you force out like heatran, fake out, and then power up punch on the switch, followed by a powerful +1 last resort.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

I would like to discuss the viability of this fairly gimmicky set:

Last Resort
########
name: Last Resort
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: High Jump Kick
move 3: Last Resort
ability: Limber
item: Lopunnite
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

After a teammate gets KOed by a Pokemon that is 2HKOed by a combination of Fake Out and High Jump Kick, send in Lopunny, Mega Evolve, use Fake Out, and follow up with a High Jump Kick. From there on, you may proceed to spam Last Resort and High Jump Kick; the two providing decent coverage alongside one another. Thanks to Scrappy, this set is not walled by Ghost-types.

In order to use Last Resort you'd need to use HJK first; it'd suck if you end up not being able to finish off a fighting-resist because you're unable to use your normal STAB.

If you want a higher-powered Normal move then just boost with Power Up Punch, you'll have more power and HJK will also get boosted.

 

[mochi_sux]

On ambipom, last resort is really gimmicky, as it doesn't have scrappy, so it's walled by ghosts, steels and rock types. However, lopunny doesn't need to worry about ghosts, steels and rock types, since gengar is like OHKOed by last resort, whereas steel types and rock types are hit super effectively by high jump kick.

I was thinking you could also run power up punch over hjk, as you can come in on something you force out like heatran, fake out, and then power up punch on the switch, followed by a powerful +1 last resort.

All Last Resort sets are gimmicky rofl. Both Ambipom and Lopunny are hella situational with Last Resort, and neither are particularly viable (also keep in mind the Ambipom set was being used in gen 5 uu)
As far as the effectiveness of HJK goes, Sergeant Spooky covered it pretty well:

In order to use Last Resort you'd need to use HJK first; it'd suck if you end up not being able to finish off a fighting-resist because you're unable to use your normal STAB.

This set is by no means perfect and it never will be, with or without HJK

 

[firehusky]

Yes, I agree, both sets are gimmicky.
However's ambipom's is a lot harder to pull off due to the fact that basically every ghost, rock and steel types walls it. Now that I think of it though, Lopunny could be a great late game cleaner with just fake out, HJK (or drain punch), and last resort. Having a 140 BP move, and a 130 BP move with perfect coverage, is really nice for a cleaner.

 

[mochi_sux]

However's ambipom's is a lot harder to pull off due to the fact that basically every ghost, rock and steel types walls it.

Can't argue that lmao
Having three moves on a Last Resort set still seems like it would cause some problems, but if nothing else is resistant to fighting then it can definitely be effective

 

[SM979]

In order to use Last Resort you'd need to use HJK first; it'd suck if you end up not being able to finish off a fighting-resist because you're unable to use your normal STAB.

If you want a higher-powered Normal move then just boost with Power Up Punch, you'll have more power and HJK will also get boosted.

That's why I specifically said "After a teammate gets KOed by a Pokemon that is 2HKOed by a combination of Fake Out and High Jump Kick"

 

[Windgrace]

Can I ask how the heck balance teams deal with this thing?

 

[silver97]

Can I ask how the heck balance teams deal with this thing?

for balance is not that difficult, you have plenty of answers to that like basically every bulky psychic (mew celebi slowbro) and every other fat physical wall that is not weak to HJK (hippowdon chesnaught to name a few). If you're running offense, well, gl lol; you have checks like tornadus-t if at good health, talon, metagross can switch on it a couple of times, strong priorities like breloom or azumarill and that's pretty much about it.

 

[Windgrace]

for balance is not that difficult, you have plenty of answers to that like basically every bulky psychic (mew celebi slowbro) and every other fat physical wall that is not weak to HJK (hippowdon chesnaught to name a few). If you're running offense, well, gl lol; you have checks like tornadus-t if at good health, talon, metagross can switch on it a couple of times, strong priorities like breloom or azumarill and that's pretty much about it.

I have Breloom on my team for this reason but I'm still a little miffed about losing a match due to a minimum roll on Mach Punch so I'm considering working another check onto my team somehow. Not sure where I'm going to fit it though. Hmm. Thanks for the ideas.

 

[silver97]

I have Breloom on my team for this reason but I'm still a little miffed about losing a match due to a minimum roll on Mach Punch so I'm considering working another check onto my team somehow. Not sure where I'm going to fit it though. Hmm. Thanks for the ideas.

well man if you're running HO you just have to play around it because it's not like you will find something that carelessly switches into it without fear of being smashed or at least crippled, breloom is a check with mach punch but it will never be able to switch into lopunny (try LO sd breloom, it is stronger and you don't have to care about any roll). If you are running balance as i said you can just pick one of those bulky things i listed.